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Sinteres posted:If anything Perrin's the Two Rivers character who mostly got stuck with boring poo poo imo. Im rereading the series and its amazing how many books he does basically nothing Skips Fire of Heaven, has like 2 scenes in Crown of Swords, and then takes 3 books to deal with the Shaido. In the show, thats barely gonna be anything compared to everyone else's plotlines over the same 5 books
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Nov 30, 2021 21:21
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aparmenideanmonad posted:I'm at work so I don't have my copies of the books handy, but there's at least one time in the books where Nynaeve incidentally heals other people who are close by while she's healing someone else. I think one is in TDR when the supergirls get captured and then rescued by maidens on the way to Tear, and she heals a head injury on either Egwene or Elayne and the other claims she feels better after being caught up in the eddies or something like that. Will look later. Here's the passage from TDR: quote:“They took my herbs,” Nynaeve muttered fiercely, her voice trembling. “I can’t! Not without the herbs!” Egwene was shocked to realize Nynaeve was on the point of tears. “Burn them all, I can’t do it without—!” Suddenly she seized Elayne’s shoulders as if she meant to lift the unconscious woman and shake her. “Burn you, girl,” she rasped, “I did not bring you all this way to die! I should have left you scrubbing pots! I should have tied you up in a sack for Mat to carry to your mother! I will not let you die on me! Do you hear me? I won’t allow it!” Saidar suddenly shone around her, and Elayne’s eyes and mouth opened wide together. That said, the scene is a nice nod to all of Nynaeve's hulk-rage-healing moments as well like this one from TFOH: quote:“Burn her!” Nynaeve growled, channeling fiercely. “Burn her forever for doing this!” Elayne recognized the flows being woven for Healing, but recognition was as far as she could go. “I will find her, Birgitte,” Nynaeve muttered. Strands of Spirit predominated, but Water and Air were in there, and even Earth and Fire. It looked as complicated as embroidering one dress with either hand, and two more with your feet. Blindfolded. “I will make her pay.” The glow shining about Nynaeve grew and grew, until it overwhelmed the lamps, until it hurt to look at her except through slitted eyes. “I swear it! By the Light and my hope of salvation and rebirth, I will!” In any case, as an obvious book turbonerd, I still really liked the ending scene and Ep4 as a whole.
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Nov 30, 2021 21:22
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Langolas posted:I like this answer the best. I pose the change though that we *all* merely tolerate Faile. I don't blame Faile for the obnoxious parts, I blame subpar characterization from Jordan. I think her character is logically consistent and balances Perrin's stubbornness most of the time, but occasionally is written as weirdly abusive by Jordan.
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Nov 30, 2021 21:26
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Perrin and Faile make sense because they're kind of total opposites. I was really surprised when they got married.
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Nov 30, 2021 21:30
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Famethrowa posted:I don't blame Faile for the obnoxious parts, I blame subpar characterization from Jordan. I think her character is logically consistent and balances Perrin's stubbornness most of the time, but occasionally is written as weirdly abusive by Jordan. It's great characterization, people just get really loving weird about characters who don't just fall in line with the male pov main characters. Why is Faile so mean and immature to Perrin in book 4 etc. Hollismason posted:Perrin and Faile make sense because they're kind of total opposites. I was really surprised when they got married. They're not opposites exactly, they're probably the second most complementary couple set up in the books
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Nov 30, 2021 21:44
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Well I finished Shadows Rising. It was really loving good! Mat didn't have much to do in this book other than make really poor life decisions. Going to Rhuidan with Rand was interesting. The final battle with Asmodean was really loving good. Rand cutting him off from the Dark one and being like you're going to teach me now was really crazy! Lanfear shows up again and she apparently was the woman who opened the hole to the Dark Ones prison! A lot of poo poo happened in this book. Nyaeve took on one of the forsaken and won! Team Elayne and Nyaeve is a good combo , but I wonder whats going to happen when they try and go back to Tar Valon Elaida stilled and disposed of the Amyrilin seat! Min escapes with them. I like Min. Perrin Goldeneyes rallies the Two Rivers! That was a good story and a good conclusion , now to wonder what will happen afterwards. Moraine and Lan didn't really do much this book other than Moraine fretting over Rand constantly. Egwene finally met up with the Wise Women like I remember and learned about the dreaming. Pretty sure Aveindha and Elayne are going to share Rand. I'm pretty sure Elaida has plans for Rand and is going to imprison him if I remember right. I'm now moving on to Fires of Heaven. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 21:51 on Nov 30, 2021 |
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Nov 30, 2021 21:48
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:It's great characterization, people just get really loving weird about characters who don't just fall in line with the male pov main characters. People just think they are because Faile acts extremely "weird" (aka Saldaean) from one of the main character's PoV. I definitely didn't like her much on my first reads as a teen but now I'm just solidly on the "most of this would solve itself if you communicated" train (which applies to basically every relationship in the series, except Gawyn who has everything explained to him clearly and still chooses to suck).
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Nov 30, 2021 21:50
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I like Faile , I don't have any issue with her and she's kind of perfect for Perrin. Its actually nice to see a romance come to fruition in the books with them being married.
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Nov 30, 2021 21:52
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I'd be 100% on board with them just skipping Gawyn, or completely changing his story, and don't even try and keep anything from the books.
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Nov 30, 2021 21:55
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CainsDescendant posted:Nah, Faile's great  Hollismason posted:Perrin and Faile make sense because they're kind of total opposites. I was really surprised when they got married. They're kinda opposites I guess, but they're also really complimentary as a couple by covering for each other's weaknesses constantly. And personally I love that they got married On a totally different note however: I'm wondering if they're gonna cut the poly-Rand romance down to a single person. I could see them going with Min being the canon romance. Since she needs to hang around for both plot expedience (her visions are going to be great for foreshadowing) and because she's actually with Rand the whole time in the book so she sort of makes the most sense. Even if it wouldn't really be my preferred choice necessarily. It would also stop the whole "I'm invincible because babies" Elayne has going on which honestly would be sort of appreciated. Those parts always drove me insane in the books
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Nov 30, 2021 22:02
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Pleads posted:People just think they are because Faile acts extremely "weird" (aka Saldaean) from one of the main character's PoV. I definitely didn't like her much on my first reads as a teen but now I'm just solidly on the "most of this would solve itself if you communicated" train (which applies to basically every relationship in the series, except Gawyn who has everything explained to him clearly and still chooses to suck). A big thing about Perrin and Faile is that Perrin's super senses let him know how she is feeling but their lack of common cultural references mean that he's very bad at making the jump from 'how she feels' to 'why she feels that way and what he should do about it'.
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Nov 30, 2021 22:17
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Currently at Fires of Heaven in my re-read. Faile and Perrin are really toxic and immature with each other, which is fine I guess because they're both young and dumb, but Faile is at times physically abusive and that's not OK, even if you're doing this wierd "fiery women of saldaea" poo poo. The fact that Perrin is a studly mountain of manflesh who she realistically can't hurt doesn't make it right. Outside of the relationship I like Faile as a character.
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Nov 30, 2021 22:22
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I just started Fires of Heaven. Its pretty good so far.
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Nov 30, 2021 22:30
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:It's great characterization, people just get really loving weird about characters who don't just fall in line with the male pov main characters. I was genuinely weirded out by how verbally and physically abusive she was towards him reading it as an adult. the slapping, the intentional flirting to make someone jealous, and the eventual spanking from Perrin is just toxic and bad. if that poo poo was excised, I would completely agree with you, but it's just Jordan things sneaking into otherwise great characters. I think he could have written Saldaen culture in a way that wasn't so hosed up. And sorry, but the "it's just that way in olde timey cultures" just isn't compelling to me. I just don't get how it adds verisimilitude to the story in a meaningful way, especially when it is played as a joke. Elvis_Maximus posted:
this is generally where I land, outside of the few bits I found very unsavory.
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Nov 30, 2021 23:09
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Famethrowa posted:I was genuinely weirded out by how verbally and physically abusive she was towards him reading it as an adult. the slapping, the intentional flirting to make someone jealous, and the eventual spanking from Perrin is just toxic and bad. if that poo poo was excised, I would completely agree with you, but it's just Jordan things sneaking into otherwise great characters. I think he could have written Saldaen culture in a way that wasn't so hosed up. Because you're largely seeing this from Perrin's pov, one in which he's already ineptly playing armchair psychologist from, based on a superpower he has and does not understand, and playing armchair psychologist from that. Try to disengage from this mode of reading Perrin and Faile.
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Nov 30, 2021 23:16
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I'm assuming Faile will be the same age as Mat/Perrin/Rand/Egwene, and not younger like in the books, and since they aged them all up in the show a lot of the teenage poo poo should fall to the wayside. Also it seems like the Two River folks aren't as prudish and traditional with Rand and Egwene having the sex with no ring on that finger. Also I'm guessing the whole "Rand/Mat/Perrin are so much better at dealing with women then me", won't be happening with you know Perrin killing his wife.
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Nov 30, 2021 23:17
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ad090 posted:
To be fair, Mat and Rand haven't killed their wives.
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Nov 30, 2021 23:18
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That’s kind of why I hate Faile, because she’s Saldaen. I think the culture is dumb as hell and she’s basically the personification of it.
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Nov 30, 2021 23:19
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:To be fair, Mat and Rand haven't killed their wives. rand circa season 7: "perrin is better at killing women than i am"
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Nov 30, 2021 23:19
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:To be fair, Mat and Rand haven't killed their wives. Technically Rand has in fact killed his wife, Mat hasn't though and that makes him the winner at relationships of the three I guess. Actually Mat married a horrible slaver, they are all really poo poo at having wives.
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Nov 30, 2021 23:21
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latinotwink1997 posted:That’s kind of why I hate Faile, because she’s Saldaen. I think the culture is dumb as hell and she’s basically the personification of it. "She's Saldean" is an excuse. It's used in a dumb way by reddit quality memetic analysis, intentionally to short circuit any kind of deeper or more honest look.
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Nov 30, 2021 23:21
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:To be fair, Mat and Rand haven't killed their wives. Is it even established that they know Perrin killed his wife? I don’t recall it being mentioned or him saying that he did it, and it’s not like anyone would have reason to assume it was him. For all we know he was being absolutely tortured when Matt gave him the knife, and they don’t even realize the extent of why he’s hosed up about it.
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Nov 30, 2021 23:22
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:Because you're largely seeing this from Perrin's pov, one in which he's already ineptly playing armchair psychologist from, based on a superpower he has and does not understand, and playing armchair psychologist from that. What reading of Perrin and Faile makes physical abuse OK?
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Nov 30, 2021 23:23
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Dramatika posted:Is it even established that they know Perrin killed his wife? I don’t recall it being mentioned or him saying that he did it, and it’s not like anyone would have reason to assume it was him. For all we know he was being absolutely tortured when Matt gave him the knife, and they don’t even realize the extent of why he’s hosed up about it. Well the recurring joke throughout the series is the lamenting of their lack of knowledge/experience dealing with women, the shows add the extra layer of us the audience knowing that Perrin killed his wife, so if they do make that joke in the show, it'll have a real dark humorous added punch to it. Mat and Rand don't have to know since we do is what I'm getting at.
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Nov 30, 2021 23:24
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:Because you're largely seeing this from Perrin's pov, one in which he's already ineptly playing armchair psychologist from, and playing armchair psycholgist from that. Naww it was the "full-armed" slaps and spanking and punches to the ribs that unsettled me, really. It's not even that I think these things can never be depicted, it's the casual way that Jordan deploys it that bugs me. find a way to say "a fiery person and a dumbass have a contentious relationship" that doesn't lean on relationship abuse in such a casual and lazy way.
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Nov 30, 2021 23:24
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Rarity posted:This is Detective Pikachu erasure Detective Pikachu is fun, but its kind of like a Marvel movie - I watched it, I enjoyed it, I will never think about it again.
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Nov 30, 2021 23:33
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Famethrowa posted:Naww it was the "full-armed" slaps and spanking and punches to the ribs that unsettled me, really. It's not even that I think these things can never be depicted, it's the casual way that Jordan deploys it that bugs me. find a way to say "a fiery person and a dumbass have a contentious relationship" that doesn't lean on relationship abuse in such a casual and lazy way. Nothing about the entire sequence I think you're talking about is anything I would consider "casual." It begins with Perrin shoving Faile away so that he can run off on his own to commit suicide-by-whitecloak.
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Nov 30, 2021 23:37
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Regardless of the merits of Faile as a character in her own right, she sucks because she makes Perrin's chapters, which already suffer from him having the least interesting poo poo to do of any major character, get bogged down with all his confusion about her feelings and everything. Obviously the Berelain poo poo doesn't help, because the last thing the series needed was more forced bullshit drama about nothing.
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Nov 30, 2021 23:47
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I think Bain and Chiad beat the heck out of Gaul at one point too right? Man, Jordan had the strangest way of writing that kind of stuff, and women characters in general I suppose Also I never stopped to think about it, but man a lot of people get spanked in the books as well
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Nov 30, 2021 23:51
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Elvis_Maximus posted:I think Bain and Chiad beat the heck out of Gaul at one point too right? It's very important that every single time that arms are crossed that they are beneath breasts and whenever a ter'angreal ring is hung, it's between breasts. Actually every possible time breasts can be mentioned, they should be. Why no that's not weird at all it's definitely in every other fantasy book right?
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Nov 30, 2021 23:53
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Jaxyon posted:It's very important that every single time that arms are crossed that they are beneath breasts and whenever a ter'angreal ring is hung, it's between breasts.
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Nov 30, 2021 23:59
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So on a whim I bought the Audible Rosamund Pike Eye of the World. She does a really good job as an audio book reader and I'm glad I did. Plus it was cheap since I own the whole series on Kindle. (Decided to move to e-book in a move.)
Mage_Boy fucked around with this message at 00:06 on Dec 1, 2021 |
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Dec 1, 2021 00:00
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th3t00t posted:It's horny and weird yes. But it's really tame and prudish compared to say... ASoIaF or Sword of Truth. Myrrish Swamps, pov of 13 year old girl "consenting" on her wedding night, pink masts, BDSM witches and rape rape rape rape lemon cakes Yes other authors are significantly worse. I've read Piers Anthony. It's still really noticeable.
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Dec 1, 2021 00:01
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th3t00t posted:It's horny and weird yes. But it's really tame and prudish compared to say... ASoIaF or Sword of Truth. Myrrish Swamps, pov of 13 year old girl "consenting" on her wedding night, pink masts, BDSM witches and rape rape rape rape lemon cakes Yeah the sword of truth books are wildly horny To my knowledge Jordan never wrote an entire book about BDSM nuns where the main character learns to love it and keeps the bdsm uh.. magic pain thing forever to remember it or whatever I think I tried to read the book after that one and lost complete interest But it's still sorta weird in a book series that otherwise isn't really that horny honestly. Just in strange little ways for the most part, and really consistent
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Dec 1, 2021 00:03
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The constant mention of where arms and necklaces are in reference to breasts is entirely offset by entire chapters of Rand talking about how hard he needs to get, imo.
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Dec 1, 2021 00:04
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Pleads posted:The constant mention of where arms and necklaces are in reference to breasts is entirely offset by entire chapters of Rand talking about how hard he needs to get, imo. This does explain the listing of women's names constantly 
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Dec 1, 2021 00:08
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Elvis_Maximus posted:This does explain the listing of women's names constantly I was going to say there must be something wrong with him since they're dead, but tbf he's dead too.
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Dec 1, 2021 00:09
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Elvis_Maximus posted:
It's actually really loving horny, but in a subtle faux-Victorian kind of way. Not actively pornographic. e.g. Rand notices that Aviendha stares at him all the time, but he thinks she's just mad and aggressive then the maidens laugh at Aviendha for mooning over Rand's brows VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Dec 1, 2021 |
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Dec 1, 2021 00:09
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I like the Wheel of Time.
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Dec 1, 2021 00:14
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Can't believe there is so much weird sex stuff in this fantasy novel.
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Dec 1, 2021 00:16
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