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Hexel posted:Seems to be some kind of internal tower politics. Will we get a surprise Elaida?? I’d guess Liandrin and Siuan. A warder dropped a line about how Siuan was pissed at Moiraine and Lan over her absence. Siuan’s probably playing the same tricks she used in the Salidar plot.
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Dec 1, 2021 18:42
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latinotwink1997 posted:When he was fighting the DO, at one point he was weaving the very essence of the pattern, not the 5 elements channelers usually do. I always got the impression that when he lit the pipe, it was from having that connection to how it all works and he could now affect things at a more primal level (the essence of thought). My assumption here was that it was an extension of the Ta'veren powers he shows in Gathering Storm and beyond. In that book, when he threatens Cadsuane, he suggests that if he thought it, the pattern would warp and just by chance, stop her heart. I think this is the logical extension of that. Except, y'know, instead of heart stopping it's pipe lighting.
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Dec 1, 2021 18:44
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Prairie Bus posted:I’d guess Liandrin and Siuan. A warder dropped a line about how Siuan was pissed at Moiraine and Lan over her absence. Siuan’s probably playing the same tricks she used in the Salidar plot. I’m rereading TGH right now, and Siuan has everyone convinced she’s super pissed at Moiraine, until they’re behind closed doors and they start scheming.
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Dec 1, 2021 18:47
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Natural 20 posted:My assumption here was that it was an extension of the Ta'veren powers he shows in Gathering Storm and beyond. He developed the Infinite Improbability Drive
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Dec 1, 2021 18:48
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Dramatika posted:I’m rereading TGH right now, and Siuan has everyone convinced she’s super pissed at Moiraine, until they’re behind closed doors and they start scheming. or kissing
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Dec 1, 2021 18:50
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Am I misremembering or did Wheel of Time mention pillow sisters or whatever in the book.
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Dec 1, 2021 18:52
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silvergoose posted:or kissing P I L L O W F R I E N D S e; yeah, they were absolutely mentioned at some point. I don’t know when, maybe New Spring?
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Dec 1, 2021 18:53
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silvergoose posted:or kissing It can be two things
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Dec 1, 2021 18:54
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Dramatika posted:P I L L O W F R I E N D S gets mentioned a lot before that but new spring makes it explicit
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Dec 1, 2021 18:55
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silvergoose posted:or kissing https://twitter.com/James_alThor/status/1459623562466189330
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Dec 1, 2021 18:57
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Mad Hamish posted:It can be two things non-exclusive or, correct
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Dec 1, 2021 18:59
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silvergoose posted:or kissing I saw a post on tumblr that summed it up really well. "It’s hilarious though because people clearly think that Siuan hates Moiraine and Siuan can’t lie so I’m just imagining Siuan around the White Tower just making horny comments about Moiraine that sound like threats like “if Moiraine were here right now she wouldn’t be able to leave my sight until I gave her something to scream about”"
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Dec 1, 2021 18:59
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silvergoose posted:or kissing "tickling"
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Dec 1, 2021 19:02
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Dramatika posted:P I L L O W F R I E N D S 
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Dec 1, 2021 19:07
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CainFortea posted:I saw a post on tumblr that summed it up really well. this is canon
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Dec 1, 2021 19:09
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When she's passed out from the trolloc poison in episode 3, Moraine mumbles "Siuan" so they're clearly making the nature of their relationship more blatant.
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Dec 1, 2021 19:25
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Siuan/Moiraine should be canon because I really want to see r/whitecloaks response to the most powerful person in the world being a queer black woman 
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Dec 1, 2021 19:27
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Rarity posted:Siuan/Moiraine should be canon because I really want to see r/whitecloaks response to the most powerful person in the world being a queer black woman It is canon. https://wot.fandom.com/wiki/Pillow_friends But again, the authors/90s take on it is less than stellar.
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Dec 1, 2021 19:32
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Jaxyon posted:It is canon. I meant show canon
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Dec 1, 2021 19:33
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Jaxyon posted:It is canon. This is going to come as a shock to you but gay people had rich, full lives prior to 2020 or 2016 or whenever you started reading blogs.
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Dec 1, 2021 19:36
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latinotwink1997 posted:When he was fighting the DO, at one point he was weaving the very essence of the pattern, not the 5 elements channelers usually do. I always got the impression that when he lit the pipe, it was from having that connection to how it all works and he could now affect things at a more primal level (the essence of thought). Natural 20 posted:My assumption here was that it was an extension of the Ta'veren powers he shows in Gathering Storm and beyond. Edit: Like he ascended to such a high plane of existence that he's kind of tapped into those powers permanently now th3t00t fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Dec 1, 2021 |
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Dec 1, 2021 19:40
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Jaxyon posted:Because the author is inconsistent. He makes his climax be about free will but mostly doesn't care about it in more minor roles. Aviendha explicitly tries to run from fate, to the point of almost killing herself in a blizzard. star-crossed lovers, love at first sight, fated love, etc., are all tropes dating back literal thousands of years. This issue is sortof like trying to argue over whether or not Mary had a consensual relationship with God (think of the power differential!). It's either trivially true that everything was consensual (because Fate made Min, Rand, Elayne, etc., all want what happened, so they consented, problem solved), or you're mushing together two concepts of consent that are fundamentally incompatible because one rests on an axiomatic assumption that free will exists (and thus consent can be given or refused) and the other rejects that axiom in favor of predestination and fate. FWIW the general stance in the text on that conflict is basically "free will exists unless there's a Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Dec 1, 2021 |
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Dec 1, 2021 19:41
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also min has the larger ontological problem of having, as far as she knows, a perfect ability to see the future (within some very broad boundaries like "if the dark one wins and undoes reality this doesn't apply") and total inability to change it i'd actually like the show to explore this more as they hopefully expand her characterization, because it takes a very specific kind of person to be able to deal with all that knowledge and still keep going
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Dec 1, 2021 19:48
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Good catch, i missed that.
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Dec 1, 2021 19:52
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Jaxyon posted:Because the author is inconsistent. He makes his climax be about free will but mostly doesn't care about it in more minor roles. Aviendha explicitly tries to run from fate, to the point of almost killing herself in a blizzard. Aviendha wasn't running from her fate, she was running from dishonor. She already had really complicated emotions about giving up being a Maiden for the Wise One's path, her anger about learning that she was "destined," to be Rand's lover was about the fact that she promised her Near-Sister Elayne that she would make sure all the thieving harpies of the world (remember, this all happened after Berelain in the Stone) and she felt like she was now entrapped into becoming one of those thieving harpies. It's not like she didn't want to fall in love with Rand because the idea repulsed her or because she lamented her destiny, it was entirely about her cultural morays and the fact that he falling in love transgressed them in her opinion. As for Min, she's not a reliable source on the subject. She's one of the most fatalistic characters in the entire franchise. Not without reason, mind you, but I don't take her feeling that none of them had any choice but to fall in love with Rand AND share him regardless of their actual will as a unabridged cosmic truth.
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Dec 1, 2021 19:52
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Ghislaine of YOSPOS posted:This is going to come as a shock to you but gay people had rich, full lives prior to 2020 or 2016 or whenever you started reading blogs. That's not a shock to me and I'm likely way older than you. I have no idea what you think my take is. Rarity posted:I meant show canon Oh ok.
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Dec 1, 2021 19:55
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Tune in tomorrow when Jaxyon gets outraged at the book's reaction to topless women.
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Dec 1, 2021 19:58
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Sanguinia posted:Aviendha wasn't running from her fate, she was running from dishonor. She already had really complicated emotions about giving up being a Maiden for the Wise One's path, her anger about learning that she was "destined," to be Rand's lover was about the fact that she promised her Near-Sister Elayne that she would make sure all the thieving harpies of the world (remember, this all happened after Berelain in the Stone) and she felt like she was now entrapped into becoming one of those thieving harpies. It's not like she didn't want to fall in love with Rand because the idea repulsed her or because she lamented her destiny, it was entirely about her cultural morays and the fact that he falling in love transgressed them in her opinion. The books literally describe people who never would have imagined getting married suddenly getting hitched purely because Rand walked through the town. I have no doubt that people who fall in love with a ta'veren feel it's their own free will, because the entire fabric of reality has shaped it to be so. Rand's nature causes people to directly go against their best interests countless times just be him being present. Hieronymous Alloy posted:star-crossed lovers, love at first sight, fated love, etc., are all tropes dating back literal thousands of years. This issue is sortof like trying to argue over whether or not Mary had a consensual relationship with God (think of the power differential!). It's either trivially true that everything was consensual (because Fate made Min, Rand, Elayne, etc., all want what happened, so they consented, problem solved), or you're mushing together two concepts of consent that are fundamentally incompatible because one rests on an axiomatic assumption that free will exists (and thus consent can be given or refused) and the other rejects that axiom in favor of predestination and fate. Like I said, there's multiple forms of prophecy and the concept of ta'veren and that makes a modern, IRL version of consent really problematic. That's the world that I and the author live/lived in.
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Dec 1, 2021 20:01
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:Tune in tomorrow when Jaxyon gets outraged at the book's reaction to topless women. I'm going to assume the show won't be adapting the Sea Folk "wardrobe" as written. As much as everyone wants to call this the "next Game of Thrones" I don't see them leaning into HBO style nudity at any point.
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Dec 1, 2021 20:02
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:Tune in tomorrow when Jaxyon gets outraged at the book's reaction to topless women. Tune in tomorrow when somebody gets really upset about mild criticism of popular fiction. I think this stuff is fun to talk about. 
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Dec 1, 2021 20:03
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:Tune in tomorrow when Jaxyon gets outraged at the book's reaction to topless women. If its over the whole "prove you're a woman by showing your boobs," thing I'll be cool with that. That was weird. Jaxyon posted:Tune in tomorrow when somebody gets really upset about mild criticism of popular fiction. I agree and find your criticisms interesting even though I've yet to be on board with any of them. Keep posting.
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Dec 1, 2021 20:04
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I only hope the show can do boobs (as Robert Jordan imagined them) justice. https://twitter.com/MatsPips/status/1465793004476719113?t=8Hlklos4WjxCMvJGDNfmlA&s=19  "Too... much... bosom..."
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Dec 1, 2021 20:09
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wonder who has the Formidable Bosoms?
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Dec 1, 2021 20:10
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Jaxyon posted:Tune in tomorrow when somebody gets really upset about mild criticism of popular fiction. you're posting the exact same mild criticisms you posted months ago. It's for a reaction.
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Dec 1, 2021 20:10
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Barreft posted:wonder who has the Formidable Bosoms? The Mistress of the Kitchens, I think.
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Dec 1, 2021 20:14
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:you're posting the exact same mild criticisms you posted months ago. It's for a reaction. Ah yes, I can only post things I believe once, or it's for the glorious adulation of decades old epic fantasy series on a decades old forum.
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Dec 1, 2021 20:16
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Barreft posted:wonder who has the Formidable Bosoms? I think a few women receive such a compliment but the first one that comes to mind is Setalle Anan. Hieronymous Alloy posted:FWIW the general stance in the text on that conflict is basically "free will exists unless there's a Free will still exists with ta'veren because they still won't make you say/do something you'd never do, just something you'd only say/do in extremely rare circumstances (which just happens to be expedient to the plot). Pleads fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Dec 1, 2021 |
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Dec 1, 2021 20:16
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William Bear posted:I only hope the show can do boobs (as Robert Jordan imagined them) justice. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziBd-ntAKiU
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Dec 1, 2021 20:18
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Dr. Clockwork posted:I'm going to assume the show won't be adapting the Sea Folk "wardrobe" as written. As much as everyone wants to call this the "next Game of Thrones" I don't see them leaning into HBO style nudity at any point. I expect they'll cut the Sea Folk almost entirely. Boats are really expensive to film on. Jaxyon posted:
 technically you've got that backwards -- modern, real world, free will based notions of consent render narrative conventions and philosophies based on notions of fate or predestination problematic. That said, it's not really a problem that it's clear we can do anything with beyond point at and go "Huh, that sure is a thing!" which is I think why people are getting annoyed by it. It's sortof the ontological equivalent of shitposting. Like, ok, yes, problem spotted, are you suggesting any particular course of action in result, or are we all just supposed to stare at your post for a while then move on, or what?
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Dec 1, 2021 20:20
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William Bear posted:I only hope the show can do boobs (as Robert Jordan imagined them) justice. What, no "heaving"?
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Dec 1, 2021 20:20
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