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I've read the books multiple times so it's going to color how I view things in the show, but I don't know how non book readers don't know it's Rand. They're trying so hard to make him look ordinary and bland, they might as well show him in a sparse white room eating saltines, maybe that would be to obvious. I do hope that it doesn't piss off too many people when it's revealed, especially when the chosen one could of been 2 powerful poc women, 1 poc man, or a very poor white man, and nope its the middle class white guy, who couldn't be more white.
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Dec 3, 2021 07:17
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ad090 posted:I've read the books multiple times so it's going to color how I view things in the show, but I don't know how non book readers don't know it's Rand. They're trying so hard to make him look ordinary and bland, they might as well show him in a sparse white room eating saltines, maybe that would be to obvious. I'm assuming the reveal is going to come along with finding out he's desert irish. Edit: Unrelated, but that does not count as a braid tug. That's a fiddle. CainFortea fucked around with this message at 07:21 on Dec 3, 2021 |
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Dec 3, 2021 07:19
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ad090 posted:I've read the books multiple times so it's going to color how I view things in the show, but I don't know how non book readers don't know it's Rand. They're trying so hard to make him look ordinary and bland, they might as well show him in a sparse white room eating saltines, maybe that would be to obvious. I think you'll find that because its The Distant Past Rand doesn't count as white because he's Irish.
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Dec 3, 2021 07:28
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Some thoughts: -Starting to not really like some of the Whitecloak changes. There's a line between extremist bullies in theoretical service to an understandable idea (rooting out Darkfriends), and straight up cartoon villains, and it really feels Valda's crossing that line - and given the focus on him specifically this early it's going to bleed into show-only views on the whole organization. I know and understand why the show felt like they needed to make them more threatening, but at the end of the day there's supposed to be at least some scenes where you accept them - them aiding at the final battle if nothing else. Or why people like Galad are signing up with them (for the overall ideal, not the extremism), which becomes a whole of a hell lot harder to sell when you have Valda here doing this poo poo and not even accusing either of being Darkfriends. -Some of the show time focuses are just getting a bit strange. We've just had large chunks of two episodes dedicated to someone who very likely will get minimal if any showing after this, and I'm really not sure what ultimate purpose the scenes even served - showing Warders really crash without their Aes Sedai? There has to have been a more efficient way to do that and use at least some of that time for something more overall relevant. Meanwhile, despite them saying that they've got a swordmaster on staff to work out the fighting styles, we've now had 5 episodes of a heronmarked sword just being casually carried and waved around like no big deal and no one cares. Given you literally CAN'T avoid the significance, since getting branded by the heronmark is the earliest sign of the Dragon Reborn, it just seems bizarre when there's so many easy cheap ways to avoid it - just have someone point it out early and he wraps it up or something for a few episodes. Hell, Rand getting extremely good at swordfighting incredibly fast could have been his unusual quirk in the show instead of the virtually nothing we've gotten until now - also a fun little thing you could look back at as clearly showing LTT's influence even if you didn't know it at the time. -To be honest, I really didn't like the Logain scene here, simply because I feel it fell way more into straight up disinformation rather than obfuscation. Camera pan should have just focused on both boys rather than doing multiple close up flickers between Logain and Mat. I've no issue with the show obfuscating the Dragon Reborn issue, and scenes like Nynaeve's channeling or Mat's issues with the dagger are great at this... but at the end of the day it should be possible for new show viewers to make a reasoned guess based on information in the show (or at least stuff they can recognize in retrospect) - and yes, Rand recognizing Dragonmount is certainly an okay clue (though HOW I'm not sure given LTT never actually saw it for obvious reasons), but the street scene just seemed dishonest. To be clear, Alvaro's doing a great job, and some of the little touches are great - it's the camera framing I'm not a fan of. -Generally in the same boat as multiple other people here, in that I think Loial's acting is excellent, but not a huge fan of the design. It IS better than the stills, but it's still not great. Maybe it'll grow on me. I'm still generally liking the show, and will continue, but some of the changes aren't really feeling the best thought out.
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Dec 3, 2021 08:09
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:Perrin personally chopping off a guy's hands will mirror Eamon Valda S1, that's pretty loving cool The threat he makes there to that guy and his companions is pretty hard core. Scarier than Valda.
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Dec 3, 2021 08:18
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Lord Koth posted:Some thoughts: When were the Whitecloaks, especially Valda and the Questioners, anything BUT cartoon villains? Valda intentionally keeps his troops back from fighting Trollocs so he can murder Perrin and they're all aboard with it. Galad himself is miserable as a Child almost every time we see him because they're nothing like what he wanted or hoped they would be until he starts taking charge and MAKING them be that way. There isn't a single moment that I remember in any books before the final sections of the entire franchise where the Whitecloaks are anything but evil. The only thing the show is doing it is making them less a bunch of pathetic idiot losers on top of being evil. Also Valda does accuse them of being Darkfriends, he says he thinks they're Aes Sedai and Warder, and when he starts to just think Egwene is an untrained channeler that's still a Darkfriend accusation from a Child, and he in fact explains that with a long speech about how the Source itself is pure evil. He's killing Perrin to get the proof he needs that he has a Witch. If she's a witch, he gets to kill her, if she's not why should he care that he killed some random farm boy? The Children never show anything but contempt for people outside their order at any point in the books, so its not like its out of character.
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Dec 3, 2021 08:29
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FYI Valda is nowhere near the Emond's Field arc in TSR--that's another guy. The Whitecloaks were always loving grotesquely evil.
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Dec 3, 2021 08:35
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:FYI Valda is nowhere near the Emond's Field arc in TSR--that's another guy. The Whitecloaks were always loving grotesquely evil. Right, my bad. Was that Bornhald's son? I just remember it was someone obsessed with Perrin's wolfbrotherness being an obvious sign of Dark Friendship, so that's why I thought of Valda after watching Episode 5.
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Dec 3, 2021 08:36
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Sanguinia posted:Right, my bad. Was that Bornhald's son? Yeah, Dain Bornhald and Jaret Byar, having to "work with" Padan Fain. Valda, at this point, was busy recruiting Galad, who will kill him 7 books later. VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 08:44 on Dec 3, 2021 |
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Dec 3, 2021 08:39
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In the books we hadn't spent much time with the Questioners at this point, but every time we heard about them it was about their knives and hot pincers and whatnot. We're just seeing the brutality that was alluded to. I would like to spend some time with Bornhald to see what the slightly-less-evil Whitecloaks are like, but aside from their general effectiveness there's not really anything happening that wasn't in the books already.
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Dec 3, 2021 08:46
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Wheel of Time, Episode Five, "Blood Calls Blood" Watched this one on my own again. Miss the theater audience a little, but what can ya do? What Happened? The domino effect of so many changes in the story last episode continue to reverberate in this one, with almost all of Lan, Moiraine, and Nynaeve's plotline being entirely new material as they reach Tar Valon and bury fallen friends. Perrin and Egwene sort of go through chapters 30, 37, and 38 of Eye of the World as they encounter the Children of the Light (and probably wish they got to deal with Bornhald and Byar like their book counterparts rather than Valda), while Mat and Rand touch on chapters 35, 36, and 39, with Tar Valon replacing Camelyn as the big city they see the False Dragon Logain in. Oh, and just a smidge of chapter 21 with Nynaeve's story of Egwene and the breakbone fever. What Got Changed or Added? By plotline chronologically, as always. As mentioned, pretty much everything that Team Aes Sedai go through is new, including the funeral after the battle, returning to Tar Valon, the Returning the Ring ceremony, Nynaeve's encounter with Liandrin, Moiraine's encounters with Liandrin and Alanna, and Stepin's death and funeral. As commented on in the notes for episode four, Karene and Stepin are twenty years dead by the time of the main novels, having died in the prequel novel New Spring, so neither of them making it out of the first season of the show alive won't impact anything in the future. Perrin and Egwene do get captured by Whitecloaks in the book, but are interrogated by a much more sympathetic (and less torturey) Geofram Bornhald, with Child Byar providing a little violence to encourage honesty. The wolves (and the missing Elyas) do fight the Whitecloaks in the book but they do so before Perrin and Egwene's capture, and it is Perrin killing two Whitecloaks to avenge his fallen wolf friend Hopper that gets them on the Whitecloak poo poo list, not Valda suspecting Egwene of being a channeler. Likewise, Perrin and Egwene are rescued by Lan, Nynaeve, and Moiraine, not a wolf attack. Rand and Mat make it to Camelyn, not Tar Valon. It's there that Rand (but not Mat who is too dagger sick to leave the inn) sees Logain. Similarly, Rand does meet Loial the Ogier at the Queen's Blessing, but he does so in Camelyn. Rand and Mat are reunited with the whole rest of the crew, not Nynaeve by herself, when everyone else makes it to Camelyn and finds them at the Queen's Blessing. Nynaeve does tell the story of Egwene's breakbone fever in the book, but it's to Moiraine and Lan, not Rand. Also the point isn't Egwene's indomitability, but rather that saving Egwene's life was the first time book Nynaeve ever channels, not the healing nova at the end of last episode. What Got Dropped Entirely? Camelyn. Elyas status: Still Missing Since he isn't in this version, Byar doesn't sneak in to pretend to free Perrin and Egwene so he can kill them "trying to escape." With the one month time jump, the rest of Rand and Mat's Bogus Journey is dropped from the show, eliminating a number of Darkfriends and a Fade, as well as some friendly farmers. Rand does not encounter his greatest enemy...a wall to fall off of...and doesn't fall into Elayne's lap, nor does he meet her brother Gawyn or her half-brother on their father's side (and Rand's half-brother on their mother's) Galad. Or, for that matter, Queen Morgaise, Elaida the Red Aes Sedai, or Gareth Bryne. Rand isn't chased through the streets of Camelyn by a clearly insane Padan Fain, though show Fain is in town and watching Mat and Rand from a distance. While Rand and Mat are staying at the Queen's Blessing as in the book, Andoran loyalist and Queen's Man innkeeper Basil Gil does not make an appearance. The whole Reds vs Whites plotline of unrest in Camelyn is dropped, since there's no way that would be happening on the streets of Tar Valon. What Did You Like? Though a slower episode, I enjoyed the worldbuilding quite a bit. The taste of Tower politics was fun. Child Valda is the most threatening Whitecloak ever. I actually wish that Liandrin wasn't a Darkfriend. As she's presented here she's a hardline Red, sure, but like the best villains you can see her point as well. Having her replace Elaida as the voice of the Reds in the Tower could actually work. So points to the show for managing to make LIANDRIN a little sympathetic! Liked the Tinkers' passive resistance. Lan trying his damndest to save Stepin but getting outwitted by the older Warder's drugged tea (courtesy of Nynaeve!) was a nice touch. I really enjoyed Moiraine and Alanna's conversation in Moiraine's quarters. The bit about the Amyrlin being out for Moiraine's blood was especially amusing. What Didn't You Like? The episode needed like five more minutes. A smoother cut between Nynaeve and Liandrin to Nynaeve and Loial would have been better, for instance. Overall? A good episode, one that takes a bit of a breather before plunging us into the final three eps. Is it Thursday yet? Episodes 1 & 2 Episode 3 Episode 4 Episode 6 Episode 7 Episode 8 jng2058 fucked around with this message at 07:43 on Dec 27, 2021 |
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Dec 3, 2021 08:47
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Were those portal stones? Also, as a great bit of misdirection, this episode was titled Blood Calls Blood. I remember thinking that meant we'd be into TGH at this point.
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Dec 3, 2021 09:12
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loial looked like a cheap 90s star trek alien and i think that he might be an aiel too this was the weakest episode so far, let's hope that they'll improve
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Dec 3, 2021 09:37
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Lord Koth posted:the street scene just seemed dishonest The way that scene was shot I think that Logain's laugh was entirely in Mat's head cause he's dagger crazy. He went from maniacal laughter to being completely disassociated in like a second, it wasn't natural. Naylenas posted:Were those portal stones? Yeah I clocked those too
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Dec 3, 2021 09:39
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Hollismason posted:Someone kills Asmodean which I'm curious about what's your guess about whodunit?
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Dec 3, 2021 09:39
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Is Aram coming off creepy enough? In the books he has a strong PUA vibe when he’s introduced, and I could never work out if RJ thought he was writing a charming character or a sleazeball.
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Dec 3, 2021 10:16
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Beefeater1980 posted:Is Aram coming off creepy enough? In the books he has a strong PUA vibe when he’s introduced, and I could never work out if RJ thought he was writing a charming character or a sleazeball. No, he's much more of a Mat-style charming rogue. I'm guessing that's an intentional change
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Dec 3, 2021 10:57
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Lord Koth posted:-Some of the show time focuses are just getting a bit strange. We've just had large chunks of two episodes dedicated to someone who very likely will get minimal if any showing after this, and I'm really not sure what ultimate purpose the scenes even served - showing Warders really crash without their Aes Sedai? There has to have been a more efficient way to do that and use at least some of that time for something more overall relevant. Meanwhile, despite them saying that they've got a swordmaster on staff to work out the fighting styles, we've now had 5 episodes of a heronmarked sword just being casually carried and waved around like no big deal and no one cares. Given you literally CAN'T avoid the significance, since getting branded by the heronmark is the earliest sign of the Dragon Reborn, it just seems bizarre when there's so many easy cheap ways to avoid it - just have someone point it out early and he wraps it up or something for a few episodes. Hell, Rand getting extremely good at swordfighting incredibly fast could have been his unusual quirk in the show instead of the virtually nothing we've gotten until now - also a fun little thing you could look back at as clearly showing LTT's influence even if you didn't know it at the time. The heron mark is on the blade and not the hilt now, which means it can't be seen when sheathed. Which is a pretty big change actually, because it means he can't be branded by it unless he's half-swording for some reason (...with a katana?). There's only been three scenes with it unsheathed that I can recall so far: Tam fighting Narg in the house, Dana stealing it and chasing Rand, and then this episode with Loial. That Loial didn't say anything about it is arguably a mistake but I think Dana et al had other things on their minds.
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Dec 3, 2021 11:18
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KOGAHAZAN!! posted:The heron mark is on the blade and not the hilt now, which means it can't be seen when sheathed. Which is a pretty big change actually, because it means he can't be branded by it unless he's half-swording for some reason (...with a katana?). There's only been three scenes with it unsheathed that I can recall so far: Tam fighting Narg in the house, Dana stealing it and chasing Rand, and then this episode with Loial. That Loial didn't say anything about it is arguably a mistake but I think Dana et al had other things on their minds. Really? It seemed like Rand was doing a pretty careful job of hiding the thing with his big coat, either IC or OOC, and I've been assuming that's because you can tell its a Heron-Mark Blade if you see it. Also yeah, I didn't think of it at the time but since Loial was so convinced Rand is an Aiel it's bizarre he didn't comment on him holding a sword.
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Dec 3, 2021 11:21
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One bit I loved was Egwene standing up to Valda cause that's exactly the Egwene who takes no poo poo from Elaida in the Tower 
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Dec 3, 2021 11:30
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Sanguinia posted:Really? It seemed like Rand was doing a pretty careful job of hiding the thing with his big coat, either IC or OOC, and I've been assuming that's because you can tell its a Heron-Mark Blade if you see it. I checked and I was a little mistaken; it's on a ricasso, not the blade proper:  Still above the crossguard though.
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Dec 3, 2021 11:51
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KOGAHAZAN!! posted:I checked and I was a little mistaken; it's on a ricasso, not the blade proper: From the descriptions in the books I always thought the mark was on the blade. I can only assume that blademasters tend to have enough of an ego to put one on their scabbards as well.
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Dec 3, 2021 11:58
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I think the casting of Valda is brilliant. That guy is so menacing and creepy - for some bizarre reason especially when he is eating. He is the best thing in Ep 4 tied with the way of the leaf being shown to be pretty badass.
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Dec 3, 2021 12:06
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valda's vest are the silliest looking garment so far
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Dec 3, 2021 12:22
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ChubbyChecker posted:valda's vest are the silliest looking garment so far Yeah I have to agree the costume isn't great, actually I would extend that to the White Cloaks as a whole which is a shame because some of the other costumes are top drawer.
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Dec 3, 2021 12:31
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Jedit posted:From the descriptions in the books I always thought the mark was on the blade. I can only assume that blademasters tend to have enough of an ego to put one on their scabbards as well. Rand getting branded when Ba'alzamon makes the blade super-hot in his dreams (right before entering the portal stones?) was a big thing, I always assumed there was at least one on the hilt
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Dec 3, 2021 12:39
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DarkHorse posted:Rand getting branded when Ba'alzamon makes the blade super-hot in his dreams (right before entering the portal stones?) was a big thing, I always assumed there was at least one on the hilt Typically they've been moving things like that for the camera. Like the ruby on the hilt of Mat's dagger wasn't apparent to the camera. Many things that people had gripes about seem to get resolved quickly. Somebody made a comment a couple pages ago that they almost seemed prescient in the way that book nerd gripes get addressed.
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Dec 3, 2021 13:32
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Hexel posted:What do we think is going on here? I'm catching up on the thread, but all I can think is, "You there, boy, what day is it?"
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Dec 3, 2021 13:33
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Beefeater1980 posted:Is Aram coming off creepy enough? In the books he has a strong PUA vibe when he’s introduced, and I could never work out if RJ thought he was writing a charming character or a sleazeball. for show aram you definitely need to let your book prejudices sit aside. they're making him more of a likable person so they can set up his eventual trajectory and i think this episode's events are what will light the spark to set that in motion.
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Dec 3, 2021 13:42
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Johnny Joestar posted:for show aram you definitely need to let your book prejudices sit aside. they're making him more of a likable person so they can set up his eventual trajectory and i think this episode's events are what will light the spark to set that in motion. Yeah I think Aram picking up the sword is going to become a way more sad and tragic moment 
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Dec 3, 2021 14:15
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My non-Book Reader wife after the latest episode: "Honestly, I feel like it could be any of them at this point, except Rand. He's just a lovesick puppy. Probably Nynaeve or the werewolf, though."
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Dec 3, 2021 14:19
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it's like with liandrin, they're making certain characters more likable in various ways instead of being kind of one-dimensional so that story payoffs matter more.
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Dec 3, 2021 14:19
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Devorum posted:My non-Book Reader wife after the latest episode: "Honestly, I feel like it could be any of them at this point, except Rand. He's just a lovesick puppy. Probably Nynaeve or the werewolf, though." Yeah, they've definitely underplayed Rand far too much. Apart from the scenes with Dena and Loial, he could be Mat's imaginary friend at this point.
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Dec 3, 2021 14:22
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Jedit posted:Yeah, they've definitely underplayed Rand far too much. Apart from the scenes with Dena and Loial, he could be Mat's imaginary friend at this point. The whole Rand's an Aielman should be his thing but they raced through that scene with Loial so fast the importance of it just didn't land
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Dec 3, 2021 14:42
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Johnny Joestar posted:for show aram you definitely need to let your book prejudices sit aside. they're making him more of a likable person so they can set up his eventual trajectory and i think this episode's events are what will light the spark to set that in motion. Yeah he's mostly coming across as a kid that's kind of amused at his parents beliefs but still clearly loves them. Him abandoning their ways in search of revenge and destroying himself and his happiness is going to be really tragic
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Dec 3, 2021 14:43
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This might just have been my favourite episode of the season. A few bits of action really kicked the plot along, but I like that it was happy to sit and chew over a lot of character moments. I loved the back and forth between Liandrin and Nynaeve, and the way it's made clear that Liandrin is deliberately dropping hints about Nynaeve can escape, Nynaeve knows she's being manipulated, and goes along with it anyway. Wolf attack owned, and now I want to see the behind-the-scenes footage of the dogs playfully yelping and wrasslin with all the actors. Loial managed to be cool and chill and also holy-poo poo-dude-stop-talking in just a few lines, which I really liked. "I can tolerate a lot" "I know" *camera shifts to focus on the heavily drugged cup of tea*. Rofl. Got genuinely misty-eyed at Stepin's funeral, which is not something I would expect to happen in this show. I know book-Lan is much more stoic, but I think paradoxically you need to see someone like that occasionally let their emotions out so that we know he actually has them. He's highly self-controlled and determined, he's not a robot. I'm feeling much more optimistic about how the show is going to handle the book's gender-politics after this episode. It spent a lot of time contrasting female-female relationships and male-male relationships without going into "women mourn like this, men mourn like this". It's also not as gender-essentialist as I was worried it would be, because the contrast feels more like its about the institutions they inhabit. Moirane and Allana's relationship is more quiet and intimate because they grew up in an all-girl's school together, Lan and Stepin are comrades from an all-male order of samurai, and temper their emotional honesty with jokes and deflections. It's very gender inflected, but it's not biotruthy.
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Dec 3, 2021 14:45
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Yeah I really liked the funeral ceremony, despite it being the thing people were most skeptical about (lan showing so much emotion!) - very clearly a specific ceremonial performance they're doing that everyone knows about - shows us what Lan's like when he stops repressing his emotions - shows us a society where everyone's expected to be stoic by only allowing one person to collectively express the grief - had a really nice twist where it's actually Moiraine's facade that's broken down all the way to her openly crying by the emotion expressed through the bond It completely sold the whole "actually Lan is by far one of the most emotional people around, his obsessive control is a defense mechanism" thing that it takes Jordan quite a while to really get across eke out fucked around with this message at 14:53 on Dec 3, 2021 |
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Dec 3, 2021 14:51
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Lan is a messy bitch and we all know it 
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Dec 3, 2021 15:02
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eke out posted:- had a really nice twist where it's actually Moiraine's facade that's broken down all the way to her openly crying by the emotion expressed through the I saw this as Moiraine feeling Lan’s pain through the bond and physically reacting, while Nynaeve had a more emotional response even without the bond.
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Dec 3, 2021 15:09
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eke out posted:
agreed. yeah i wasn't sure how much was the bond, and how much was her being shaken by the sight and sound of lan's mannish keening
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Dec 3, 2021 15:09
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