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Aurora posted:for the purposes of most arguments like this i tend to ignore anything the dbz anime shows. it cuts straight from them at goku's pod to krillin showing up at roshi's, vegeta training, and goku and piccolo training gohan to them all meeting up at the city 3 years later Ginyu coming back means the Z Anime is the only true canon. Again, Yo! Son Goku and friends puts everyone up above Namek freeza to the point that the villains being that strong is an absolute joke to them. I'm sorry, they all in fact did get that strong that fast. Because they always get that much stronger that fast if they focus and train hard. That's the whole deal of the show since OG Dragonball ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 02:44 on Dec 3, 2021 |
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Dec 3, 2021 02:41
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Blaze Dragon posted:
This is not true going by the liveblog going through the whole series I have been reading. Tenshinhan particularly during the King Piccolo arc, is very much like Android arc Vegeta. Going on about Warrior pride, desiring to prove himself against Piccolo and leaving the others in the dark. Also a constant desire to prove he can surpass Goku as he realized Goku was stronger then him in the Tournament. Just today it was the blog covered Ten on King Kai’s world and how he intended to learn King Kai’s Techniques but how he did not intend to just copy what Goku did knowing it would not give him an advantage, instead he would put his own spin on the stuff to give him an edge. Implying he was still going to be relevant. As Vegeta was originally not intended to around post Namek. Vegeta may have taken Tenshinhan’s role as he never showed off his new stuff.
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Dec 3, 2021 02:41
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New Leaf posted:I watched a YouTube video a while back talking about Krillin's strength and he made a good point - during Krillin and Goku's sparring match in Super before the Tournament, Goku went Super Saiyan Blue and got into a Kamehameha clash with Krillin and Krillin actually actually started pushing him back. Sure, Goku was massively holding back, but how much of his power was he using? 10%? 5%? Either number is a monstrous amount of power and says a lot about how strong Krillin really is. Krillin's secret power is that he's not going to back down. Even if he knows he will 100% eventually lose and be killed, he's staying in the fight. Him pushing back against Goku isn't just his raw power but a showcase of his unbreakable willpower.
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Dec 3, 2021 02:48
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It also points out that Vegeta’s obsession with Goku and surpassing him is rooted in a misunderstanding. Namely Vegeta leaves the Saiyan arc thinking Goku is way more powerful then him barring Ozsaru form which Vegeta felt humiliated using as its meant for razing planets. Because Vegeta was completely unaware of the kaioken and thought Goku was sandbagging him and not on his last legs after the Beam struggle. Vegeta is also unaware of the Kaioken in general probably.
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Dec 3, 2021 02:49
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Krillin's secret power is that he's not going to back down. Even if he knows he will 100% eventually lose and be killed, he's staying in the fight. Him pushing back against Goku isn't just his raw power but a showcase of his unbreakable willpower. Also he’s tricky in a fight which is how he rings out Goku there.
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Dec 3, 2021 02:50
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It’s kinda amazing that a character that even the author didn’t like stuck around because he was such a good heel. I mean, it’s partly because the story becomes easier to write when Vegeta exists cause he’s an arrogant tool that lives making things worse but still.
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Dec 3, 2021 02:50
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MonsterEnvy posted:It also points out that Vegeta’s obsession with Goku and surpassing him is rooted in a misunderstanding. Namely Vegeta leaves the Saiyan arc thinking Goku is way more powerful then him barring Ozsaru form which Vegeta felt humiliated using as its meant for razing planets. Because Vegeta was completely unaware of the kaioken and thought Goku was sandbagging him and not on his last legs after the Beam struggle. Vegeta is also unaware of the Kaioken in general probably. Sure, but then Goku got out of the hospital, trained for like a week and thoroughly outclassed Vegeta despite Zenkais from Zarbon and Recoome. And he still had the Kaioken as backup.
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Dec 3, 2021 02:59
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New Leaf posted:I watched a YouTube video a while back talking about Krillin's strength and he made a good point - during Krillin and Goku's sparring match in Super before the Tournament, Goku went Super Saiyan Blue and got into a Kamehameha clash with Krillin and Krillin actually actually started pushing him back. Sure, Goku was massively holding back, but how much of his power was he using? 10%? 5%? Either number is a monstrous amount of power and says a lot about how strong Krillin really is. Krillin is a man that knows he will probably lose but he is going to take as much of the enemy/foe with him as he can. Both him and Goku in base could probably spar decently but he knows as soon as Goku transforms he is toast. Transforming in spite of that is also a sign of respect from Goku, he wants to push his friend to his limits to help him grow. Oh god I'm typing on of those posts about Powerlevels aren't I ?!
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Dec 3, 2021 03:06
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MonsterEnvy posted:It also points out that Vegeta’s obsession with Goku and surpassing him is rooted in a misunderstanding. Namely Vegeta leaves the Saiyan arc thinking Goku is way more powerful then him barring Ozsaru form which Vegeta felt humiliated using as its meant for razing planets. Because Vegeta was completely unaware of the kaioken and thought Goku was sandbagging him and not on his last legs after the Beam struggle. Vegeta is also unaware of the Kaioken in general probably. I don't think this is correct. During early Namek, Vegeta shows no interest whatsoever in Goku, he's entirely focused on getting the Dragon Balls and wishing for immortality because the only being he genuinely thought of as a danger was Freeza. His obsession with Goku started after the latter arrived in Namek and showed himself to be vastly more powerful than Vegeta was, easily destroying Recoome, Burter and Jeice while Vegeta couldn't do poo poo to the former. And then Goku did what Vegeta couldn't: he became the legendary Super Saiyan. After Vegeta spent the entire arc talking about how that was a position meant for him. It was a gigantic blow to his ego. Zedd posted:Krillin is a man that knows he will probably lose but he is going to take as much of the enemy/foe with him as he can. Both him and Goku in base could probably spar decently but he knows as soon as Goku transforms he is toast. Transforming in spite of that is also a sign of respect from Goku, he wants to push his friend to his limits to help him grow. It's a good take though. There's a reason why Krillin's usual line against Goku in games is "going Super Saiyan is cheating!". Without transformations, it's merely reliving their old rivalry. Sure, Goku is undeniably stronger, but Krillin can keep up. It's when Goku shows his space ape genes that the fight becomes completely one-sided. And even there, Krillin's still the smarter fighter - in a fight with rules, Krillin can actually combat Super Saiyan Goku through clever techniques. But Blue is just too much, and I imagine even Super Saiyan 2 would already give Goku such a massive edge that no amount of technique could help.
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Dec 3, 2021 03:26
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Ginyu coming back means the Z Anime is the only true canon. They get exactly as strong as they need to be for the current arc and there isn't any consistency to it at all, and anyone who isn't a Saiyan or Namekian is lucky if Toriyama even remembers they exist. Anyway, the thing that stands out about Krillin for me isn't his power level or his techniques - it's the fact that he's the only character that not only actually wants to resolve conflicts without fighting, but actually puts a little more into that than just standing around letting the villain pummel him for three episodes. He usually doesn't actually manage to accomplish anything more than convincing a villain they didn't particularly need to bother beating the crap out of him right then, but he at least does a better job of "not wanting to fight unless he has to" than Gohan ever did. He was the only one to think even a little bit that maybe they shouldn't kill 17 and 18 just because a time traveler told them to.
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Dec 3, 2021 03:59
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Vizuyos posted:They get exactly as strong as they need to be for the current arc and there isn't any consistency to it at all, and anyone who isn't a Saiyan or Namekian is lucky if Toriyama even remembers they exist. To be fair he only really thought that after he met them and 18 was incredibly hot.
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Dec 3, 2021 04:41
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Zedd posted:Krillin is a man that knows he will probably lose but he is going to take as much of the enemy/foe with him as he can. Both him and Goku in base could probably spar decently but he knows as soon as Goku transforms he is toast. Transforming in spite of that is also a sign of respect from Goku, he wants to push his friend to his limits to help him grow. That was pretty much the entire point of the team arc. Goku tested the entire team against Blue to see how they would react to that level fighter, and they all passed with 17 and Gohan showing they could actually make him work in it and Krillen saying he could be kind of crafty with it.
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Dec 3, 2021 05:09
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Goku considered Tien strong enough that he had to tell him to stay out of it when he went to fight android 19
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Dec 3, 2021 06:05
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Stairmaster posted:Goku considered Tien strong enough that he had to tell him to stay out of it when he went to fight android 19 This is because, as I've said before, the show somehow equates Tien to Piccolo in terms of strength and skill. It does this *all the time* and I have no idea why. DBZ and Super both have moments of it, without ever giving him anything that backs it up
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Dec 3, 2021 06:43
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Burkion posted:This is because, as I've said before, the show somehow equates Tien to Piccolo in terms of strength and skill. Toei always presented him as equal to Yamcha when they were overvaluing Yamcha.
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Dec 3, 2021 07:30
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This has probably been posted about already, but there's a big project where various manga artists are doing tributes to Dragon Ball manga covers. The latest is Tatsuki Fujimoto, whose Goku is perhaps the least Goku looking Goku I've seen since the NES game. (Nice picture otherwise, mind.)
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Dec 3, 2021 08:48
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All this talk about Yamcha power levels just reminds me of the time I played a hilariously broken translation of legend of the super saiyans the SNES game. Because I had no idea what I was doing (translation was half English, half Japanese, half French) Yamcha survived everything and was basically MVP, because no enemy ever fully dodged his spirit ball. He even got to use it against Freeza. I'm also certain I also messed up virtually all Goku training sessions, so he was hilariously underpowered. Good thing Piccolo could merge with even more Namekians and Gohan could still go Ozaru with a card on Namek. They had to do all the work while Goku was getting stuffed with Senzu beans to stop him from dieing. Burkion posted:This is because, as I've said before, the show somehow equates Tien to Piccolo in terms of strength and skill. I thought this had more to do with how both have basically the same disposition towards life. They're always just off screen training by themselves.
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Dec 3, 2021 09:03
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Blaze Dragon posted:I don't think this is correct. During early Namek, Vegeta shows no interest whatsoever in Goku, he's entirely focused on getting the Dragon Balls and wishing for immortality because the only being he genuinely thought of as a danger was Freeza. During the startup to Namek, Vegeta absolutely shows interest - he wants to go back to Earth and plaster everyone. It's only when he learns that Freeza found out about the Dragon Balls, that he switches focus to getting them before they disappear forever. JoJosSiwaAdventure posted:Yamcha is the only rival-turned-friend to get the clean W over Goku
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Dec 3, 2021 11:14
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Mr Satan took on a gunman with his bare hands and won effortlessly, just a reminder.
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Dec 3, 2021 13:12
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if you think about it, frieza's planet destroying ball on namek is basically just a lovely spirit ball yamcha: planet destroyer
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Dec 3, 2021 13:13
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I think Yamcha is weaker than super perfect cell but stronger than dabyra, personally 
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Dec 3, 2021 13:17
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Mr Satan took on a gunman with his bare hands and won effortlessly, just a reminder. He also moved so fast he disappeared. I bet in old school Dragonball he would have put up a decent fight until ki was a thing.
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Dec 3, 2021 14:05
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chiasaur11 posted:This has probably been posted about already, but there's a big project where various manga artists are doing tributes to Dragon Ball manga covers. The latest is Tatsuki Fujimoto, whose Goku is perhaps the least Goku looking Goku I've seen since the NES game. Why does Bulma have a six inch thigh gap?
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Dec 3, 2021 14:27
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Burkion posted:This is because, as I've said before, the show somehow equates Tien to Piccolo in terms of strength and skill. I think it's a size thing. Some people there probably think bigger = better and Tenshinhan is almost the same size as Piccolo so they match them.
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Dec 3, 2021 15:07
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New Leaf posted:He also moved so fast he disappeared. I bet in old school Dragonball he would have put up a decent fight until ki was a thing. He could get past prelims in the first Budokai we saw and beat Manwolf, Bacterian, and Ranfan. He'd probably lose to Giran and would definitely hard stop at Nam. Gotta figure the ones he won got people up to Giran's level or something. First appearance Goku or Krillen's first apperance would beat him after a decent little fight.
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Dec 3, 2021 15:12
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Darko posted:He could get past prelims in the first Budokai we saw and beat Manwolf, Bacterian, and Ranfan. He'd probably lose to Giran and would definitely hard stop at Nam. Gotta figure the ones he won got people up to Giran's level or something. I think his fighting level is about the same as the Red Army.
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Dec 3, 2021 15:37
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Darth TNT posted:All this talk about Yamcha power levels just reminds me of the time I played a hilariously broken translation of legend of the super saiyans the SNES game. I love how that game really lets you make your own version of the saiyan/namek arcs with different characters surviving or dying and having different power levels, it really feels like getting a unique story instead of just carrying the same characters through the same fights like most games do it.
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Dec 3, 2021 15:51
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Shyrka posted:I love how that game really lets you make your own version of the saiyan/namek arcs with different characters surviving or dying and having different power levels, it really feels like getting a unique story instead of just carrying the same characters through the same fights like most games do it. I wish that was a thing, just make What If games where you play one Saga and get to play out how your choices and the RNG goes.
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Dec 3, 2021 16:01
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Admiral Joeslop posted:Why does Bulma have a six inch thigh gap? Hard work
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Dec 3, 2021 16:03
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Namtab posted:Hard work It's probably a fair amount of effort gathering all those dragon balls for those body alterations.
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Dec 3, 2021 16:52
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Mr Satan was said to be about as strong as King Chapa.
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Dec 3, 2021 17:46
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Here’s the truth. Yamcha cannot destroy a planet or even a moon. This is not because he is bad at beams. This is because he can’t gently caress. Dude can’t destroy pussy so there’s no worry about him destroying planets. Krillin lays pipe so good he can satisfy an android with infinite energy, dude can easily destroy a planet. Goku’s so good that Chichi puts up with his absenteeism AND he doesn’t even know what kissing is. Vegeta has destroyed planets on screen and is able to satisfy the richest lady on the planet, who could get w anyone but Goku. Piccolo is coded as being able to lay solid pipe but chooses not to. Tienshinhan practices semen retention so he can destroy small solar bodies a few times a year.
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Dec 3, 2021 21:05
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I choose to believe Bulma hooked up with Vegeta because he was a prince and that was good enough for her.PringleCreamEgg posted:Dude can’t destroy pussy so there’s no worry about him destroying planets. 
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Dec 3, 2021 21:21
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PringleCreamEgg posted:Here’s the truth. Yamcha cannot destroy a planet or even a moon. This is not because he is bad at beams. This is because he can’t gently caress. Dude can’t destroy pussy so there’s no worry about him destroying planets. Yamcha loving around is why Bulma is with Vegeta.
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Dec 3, 2021 21:27
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PringleCreamEgg posted:Piccolo is coded as being able to lay solid pipe but chooses not to.
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Dec 3, 2021 22:11
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yamcha fucks too hard, actually
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Dec 3, 2021 22:22
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Goku knows what kissing is. He was referring to feeding someone baby-bird style and Vegeta took it the wrong way.  Vegeta only blew up that planet in filler. Also just  at that whole post.
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Dec 4, 2021 00:47
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Burkion posted:This is because, as I've said before, the show somehow equates Tien to Piccolo in terms of strength and skill. its in the manga begone fool
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Dec 4, 2021 00:57
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Aurora posted:yamcha fucks too hard, actually i hosed him
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Dec 4, 2021 00:57
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Dweebs who don't think Yamcha could destroy a planet refer to Son Goku and Friends as "The Z Fighters" and/or "Earth's Special Forces"
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Dec 4, 2021 01:06
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