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Dr. Clockwork posted:I'll browse r/whitecloaks to laugh at the butthurt dingleberries after every ep, but I'll be hosed if I'm going to sink 3 hours into seeing Youtube sword guy rage about feminism or whatever. One thing I noticed about this episode was that they quite deliberately dropped in a bit in the Liandrin/Nynaeve scene that talks about how women are still not really first-class citizens even in-universe, so they have to exercise what power they do have. That feels out of step with the books' world where women decisively hold most of the seats of power at all levels of society, but it seems like a good move — in this era and climate hewing too closely to the books' depiction might come across like some kind of TOPSY TURVY TOWN satire like this 
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Dec 5, 2021 05:15
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Data Graham posted:One thing I noticed about this episode was that they quite deliberately dropped in a bit in the Liandrin/Nynaeve scene that talks about how women are still not really first-class citizens even in-universe, so they have to exercise what power they do have. Can you imagine the wailing and gnashing of teeth of the people who are already mad that women are allowed to do cool things in this show if they actually went as full female power structure from the books?
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Dec 5, 2021 05:22
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i'm happy not to hear what crap /r/whitecloaks has to say about the tv series
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Dec 5, 2021 05:27
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shrike82 posted:i'm happy not to hear what crap /r/whitecloaks has to say about the tv series
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Dec 5, 2021 05:30
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I'm happy to hear about what's going on with the whitecloak whackadoodles as long as they are extremely unhappy.
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Dec 5, 2021 05:39
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jng2058 posted:Honestly it's the "in the shadow of the White Tower" part that is a little troublesome. You'd have to think that the Tinkers would have mentioned to someone...probably an Aes Sedai...that Whitecloaks are kidnapping people right outside Tar Valon, and Egwene sounds like a girl who's coming to the Tower for training, so the Aes Sedai have every reason in the world to get in there and bust some heads. Hell, just send some Warders and the Tower Guard if you don't want to risk a Three Oaths violation. Weren't there white cloaks hanging out about this same distance from Tar Valon in book 3? Egwene started to gently caress em up with the power and got chewed out by Verin for it
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Dec 5, 2021 05:41
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The Glumslinger posted:Weren't there white cloaks hanging out about this same distance from Tar Valon in book 3? Egwene started to gently caress em up with the power and got chewed out by Verin for it Yeah Egwene blows up the ground around them and then they admonish her for it.
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Dec 5, 2021 05:43
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Verin says something like "They could not have carried away an aes sedai this close to the white tower, and they knew it, they were just blustering".
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Dec 5, 2021 05:45
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Data Graham posted:One thing I noticed about this episode was that they quite deliberately dropped in a bit in the Liandrin/Nynaeve scene that talks about how women are still not really first-class citizens even in-universe, so they have to exercise what power they do have. A lot of folks talk about the WoT-verse as being a matriarchal society, but it's really not. The Aes Sedai definitely play a big role in guiding the world's events, but many countries are ruled by kings and traditional gender roles are in place in many of the cultures. There's more equality in certain places in certain ways, or say the whole separate but equal power structure in the Two Rivers, but it varies a lot. Even in the world of the books I can see what Liandrin said being very true.
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Dec 5, 2021 05:47
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CainsDescendant posted:A lot of folks talk about the WoT-verse as being a matriarchal society, but it's really not. The Aes Sedai definitely play a big role in guiding the world's events, but many countries are ruled by kings and traditional gender roles are in place in many of the cultures. There's more equality in certain places in certain ways, or say the whole separate but equal power structure in the Two Rivers, but it varies a lot. Even in the world of the books I can see what Liandrin said being very true. Yeah, your particular country being ruled by a queen instead of a king doesn't really keep, say, an abusive father in line.
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Dec 5, 2021 05:50
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Also we should remember that in the books, which admittedly could be changed for the show, there's plenty of men in charge all over the place. Illian, Arad Doman, and Cairhien have kings, all the High Lords of Tear are men, Amador has both a king nominally in charge and Pedron Nile ACTUALLY in charge, etc. etc. etc. For that matter, all the militaries (save the Aiel and Seanchan of course) are pretty much men only as well. Even in Andor, with women in charge for hundreds of years, it wasn't until Elayne created her all female Queensguard that women in the military became a thing.
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Dec 5, 2021 06:17
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jng2058 posted:Also we should remember that in the books, which admittedly could be changed for the show, there's plenty of men in charge all over the place. Illian, Arad Doman, and Cairhien have kings, all the High Lords of Tear are men, Amador has both a king nominally in charge and Pedron Nile ACTUALLY in charge, etc. etc. etc. Yeah outside of the Aiel the only women we really see take up open arms in main Randland are some of the Hunters for the Horn which mostly seems to be rich failkids larping. We see plenty of women who are skilled with weapons but its usually that they're really good with a knife they keep hidden. Or that they take up arms in incredible circumstances (defense of the Two Rivers, Last Battle etc). And of course Birgette. Zore fucked around with this message at 06:23 on Dec 5, 2021 |
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Dec 5, 2021 06:21
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Zore posted:mostly seems to be rich Failekids larping. ftfy
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Dec 5, 2021 06:25
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Arguably the most female-led society would probably be the Seanchan. They've got the Empress, Sul'dam, and a mixed gender military. The Aiel come close: they're led by Wise Ones, only women own real estate, and the women fight alongside the men, but there's only one female warrior society compared to a dozen men's and they're not even allowed to marry or have children.
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Dec 5, 2021 06:26
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sea folk
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Dec 5, 2021 06:34
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shrike82 posted:sea folk That's another divided power structure thing. Sure only women can be captains, but as soon as there's combat the Swordmaster...who is always male...takes over. The Mistress of the Ship gets to decide what course to take, but the male Cargomaster gets exclusive say over what gets traded and in exchange for what. It's the Village Council and the Women's Circle thing all over again, just with different things in each column.
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Dec 5, 2021 06:39
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Aww, this is adorable: https://twitter.com/philandchris/status/1467161470685351940
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Dec 5, 2021 06:49
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I love the little scenes in Towers of Midnight as the Borderlanders troll Lan while he makes his way towards Tarwin's Gap. I thought Daniel Henney was a bit too small and they wrote Lan a bit too friendly and open in the first ep of the show, but now I'm on board that it was a necessary change for TV and he's killed it so far. e: Shortly followed by Gaul's "a mighty victory!" line which is the best joke in the series. Towers got some good humour going. Pleads fucked around with this message at 10:26 on Dec 5, 2021 |
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Dec 5, 2021 10:18
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This show is so good.
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Dec 5, 2021 10:34
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MegaZeroX posted:Aww, this is adorable: This is definitely printed out and hanging on the fridge, or possibly on the wall by the phone.
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Dec 5, 2021 11:26
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jng2058 posted:That's another divided power structure thing. Sure only women can be captains, but as soon as there's combat the Swordmaster...who is always male...takes over. The Mistress of the Ship gets to decide what course to take, but the male Cargomaster gets exclusive say over what gets traded and in exchange for what. It's the Village Council and the Women's Circle thing all over again, just with different things in each column. The Sea Folk also have the thing where the higher ranking person in a marriage must defer to the other in private. They're definitely all about making sure that everyone has some power, sometimes.
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Dec 5, 2021 11:34
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Strom Cuzewon posted:I can't remember anything about him (been about 8 years since I read these things) and a quick check on his wiki tells me he's the only example, if we don't count Verin and her Warder. There's Noal/Jain Farstrider as well!
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Dec 5, 2021 13:43
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Natural 20 posted:There's Noal/Jain Farstrider as well! He was never a darkfriend?
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Dec 5, 2021 13:47
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The Lord Bude posted:He was never a darkfriend? Yeah, "manipulated by a forsaken and compelled by another" doesn't make someone a darkfriend. Just really bad luck.
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Dec 5, 2021 14:07
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He's a Darkfriend! When Sammael visits Graendal he's in her palace and from what we know of him, not under compulsion. Also he allegedly got to Shayol Ghul and I find it hard to imagine that someone who wasn't a Darkfriend got back from there after meeting Ishy.
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Dec 5, 2021 14:30
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Natural 20 posted:He's a Darkfriend! That was the King of Arad Doman
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Dec 5, 2021 14:43
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Rarity posted:That was the King of Arad Doman https://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=754#4 Per this Q&A it's Jain!
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Dec 5, 2021 14:56
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It's ambiguous. Jain has gaps in his memories and a certain amount of mental degradation consistent with being under heavy compulsion, but we also never learn about the series of events that cause him to become entangled with Ishamael or meet Graendal. Jain seems to personally feels like he has something to atone for, but whether that's being a Darkfriend or just not being strong enough to resist being used by the Forsaken, we don't know.
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Dec 5, 2021 15:08
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Natural 20 posted:https://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=754#4 Also doesn't make him a darkfriend. He was manipulated/compulsioned into serving the dark one's interests, there is nothing in the text to suggest he was ever actually a darkfriend. The books make this pretty clear in my opinion. He was responsible for bringing the guy that betrayed Malkier to the shadow to justice.
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Dec 5, 2021 15:10
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The Wiki says Graendal knew his true identity and was using subtle compulsion on him. He shows all the signs of being affected by long-term compulsion, as well.Natural 20 posted:
Ishmael explicitly states that he let Jain go to serve his own ends, "thinking he was free of me"...so his safe return was part of Ishy's scheming. Devorum fucked around with this message at 15:19 on Dec 5, 2021 |
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Dec 5, 2021 15:15
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Natural 20 posted:When Sammael visits Graendal he's in her palace and from what we know of him, not under compulsion. Graendal compulsed basically everyone in her palace though. Knowing nothing else, if you assume someone in her palace is under compulsion you'd be probably be right just by blind chance.
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Dec 5, 2021 17:14
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Well then  Dumais Wells Just finished Lord of Chaos! It was really good although it was a bit slow.Things I liked : Mat's confrontation of Egwene , Elayne, and Nynaeve , that was loving hilarious Min finally getting to Rand and all the teasing she gives him The developing story of the bowl that Elayne and Nynaeve are looking for. The story isn't resolved but its a good story. Elayne and Nynaeve being raised to Aes Sedai! Egwene becomes the Amyrllin seat! Ash A Man Goddamn that was loving brutal when they let the shield down and then just devastate the ranks of the Shaido Rand breaking free of the shielding was one of the better moments Perrin finally showing back up, the intrigue with Berelain and Faile , that was kind what the gently caress is going on with Berelain and Faile , not sure maybe I'm missing something Overall it was really good a little light on the action but it still had a pretty engrossing story. I probably liked it a little less than the last one but the Ashaman just devastating a army was such a bad rear end moment it was worth it. Only 8 more books to go! I should at this pace be finished in 2 months ? I dunno this has all be very relaxing and really great for me personally to find something that I'm enjoying so much.
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Dec 5, 2021 21:19
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"Kneel, or be knelt" is one of those iconic lines. "The unstained tower, broken, bends knee to the forgotten sign" in the epigraph. Really glad you're enjoying it. 
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Dec 5, 2021 21:33
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Yeah that was definitely a bad rear end moment. To bad we didn't see the scene where Rand went berserk at finding Min was in the camp then killed a warder with his bare hands.
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Dec 5, 2021 21:47
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lol i'm rereading LOC and love the scene where he first meets Taim who hands him a Seal, then lew therin starts screaming about breaking it and rand thinks about how he's in control and stuffing him down and--- rand is standing with the seal over his head about to dash it on the ground muttering "breakitbreakitbreakit" out loud and 100% of the assembled court sees it i like the thing Jordan does where crazy guy is constantly thinking about how he's definitely dealing with it and you immediately cut to seeing that no, he's absolutely not dealing with it edit: thanks tor reread: quote:Lews Therin’s voice came up like thunder. Break it break them all must break them must must must break them all break them and strike must strike quickly must strike now break it break it break it . . .
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Dec 5, 2021 21:57
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genuinely incredibly excited to see what insane poo poo rand has to put up with in later seasons compared to what they had going on with logain, because lews therin is way more loving manic at times and rand is constantly like one step away from just making someone's skull explode like an overripe melon
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Dec 5, 2021 22:00
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Hollismason posted:
Most people find the next three books move at a slower pace, then things pick up again from 11 to the end.
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Dec 5, 2021 22:01
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Hollismason posted:Only 8 more books to go! I should at this pace be finished in 2 months ? I dunno this has all be very relaxing and really great for me personally to find something that I'm enjoying so much. I really hope you keep liking it! The slog wasn't as bad as I remembered even if it had a few acutely bad spots.
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Dec 5, 2021 22:11
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eke out posted:lol i'm rereading LOC and love the scene where he first meets Taim who hands him a Seal, then lew therin starts screaming about breaking it and rand thinks about how he's in control and stuffing him down and--- Yeah Rand is kind of crazy at this point I wonder if he'll get worse or just do more crazy poo poo. I forget when the Lewis Therin voice started but it was rather gradual in the books and now its like all Rand can think about now.
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Dec 5, 2021 22:12
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silvergoose posted:"Kneel, or be knelt" is one of those iconic lines. "The unstained tower, broken, bends knee to the forgotten sign" in the epigraph. Really glad you're enjoying it. And then, in a single chapter, every rule gets broken at the same time. From then on, every character lives in a new and more terrifying world.
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Dec 5, 2021 22:15
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