|
They gave a little episode 6 clip on the brazilian twitch thing with Rosamund and Alvaro Morte last night. https://twitter.com/ThreadPattern/status/1467750436895703042
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2021 13:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 22:41 |
|
|
Data Graham posted:
Did…you hate read a 2 million word book series? I would suggest anyone who wants to “reread” it try the audio books. Especially now that they paid a Hollywood A list actress to perform the entire drat first book. They are fantastic.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2021 13:35
|
|
|
Hexel posted:They gave a little episode 6 clip on the brazilian twitch thing with Rosamund and Alvaro Morte last night. whoa that owned
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2021 13:38
|
|
|
buffalo all day posted:whoa that owned I hope they don't cut the adventures of Leane, Siuan, Logain and Min post tower split Especially when Siuan calls him a giant hairy carp 
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2021 13:42
|
|
|
those blue sitters look cool as hell
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2021 13:48
|
|
|
I might have missed it in the show... I haven't seen much Flame of Tar Valon imagery? Even the Seat itself has that lacy 7 spoke wheel design, when I thought in the books it was the Flame. Logain continues to own.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2021 13:52
|
|
|
Comrade Blyatlov posted:I might have missed it in the show... I haven't seen much Flame of Tar Valon imagery? Even the Seat itself has that lacy 7 spoke wheel design, when I thought in the books it was the Flame. They've teased a couple of Dragon Fangs so the imagery's not been completely dropped. Perhaps they thought making the yin-yang symbol so obvious would be a bit hokey
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2021 13:57
|
|
|
The question about how much the show has cut has me trying to count how many major or recurring characters they've removed or delayed introducing at this point. Min Bornhald the younger Byar Bayle Domon Basel Gill Elayne Gawyn Galad Tallanvor Morgase Elaida ...plus a bunch of minor Emond's Fielders like Cenn Buie and Daise Congar. And we'll give half points for Ishamael and Bornhald the elder because they've had almost no lines at this point. I know the series is famous for the size of its cast but Jordan got started early, huh?  Data Graham posted:I have to say that though it's fun knowing what all those references to names and events all mean now, a lot of my initial gripes still hold true about the writing. It's super opaque and disorienting in places. In particular the "The Gleeman" chapter; everything from the point where Thom notices Moiraine in the crowd to where the Council come out of the inn and Tam and Rand set off back home is incredibly hard to parse what is going on or how I'm supposed to feel about it. Everybody reacts to each other in confusing ways that don't get explained (and this is leaving aside the plausibility of the "Thom and Moiraine know each other" retcon; I'm sorry, just — no sale); are they surprised? Embarrassed? Worried? Should I be? What the hell are Bran and Nynaeve and Cenn Buie arguing about? What's their beef with Thom? What's Thom so flustered about? You're just kind of tossed all these balls like they're popping out of Thom's sleeves and then everyone just wanders off while you're trying to juggle them. I don't know if it was intended to come across that way but it feels a lot more like it could have just used another editing pass. Different strokes for different folks I guess, this was something I always liked about the writing. It's a very limited limited third person; you get what the POV character picks up on and how they interpret it, and if there's something they're missing then you're left to your own devices.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2021 13:58
|
|
|
KOGAHAZAN!! posted:The question about how much the show has cut has me trying to count how many major or recurring characters they've removed or delayed introducing at this point. Min is in 7 & 8, and on location for S2, Basel Gill is cast and I would imagine all the Caemlyn crew will be in season 2.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2021 14:03
|
|
|
Honestly when we first met the Darkfriend in the mining camp, I thought she was Min at first.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2021 14:07
|
|
|
Hexel posted:Min is in 7 & 8, and on location for S2, Basel Gill is cast and I would imagine all the Caemlyn crew will be in season 2. Removed or delayed, I said.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2021 14:09
|
|
|
Comrade Blyatlov posted:Honestly when we first met the Darkfriend in the mining camp, I thought she was Min at first. There was a leaked photo of her talking to Rand in Fal Dara, just the back of her but they've all disappeared and been DMCA'd now. https://twitter.com/geekyeri this is a good account to follow for casting and filming news and leaks.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2021 14:11
|
|
|
KOGAHAZAN!! posted:The question about how much the show has cut has me trying to count how many major or recurring characters they've removed or delayed introducing at this point. Daise Congar was in the first episode. She's the one who insists on Egwene celebrate with them at the Inn and was one of the villagers that ganged up on and impaled a Trolloc.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2021 14:32
|
|
|
Eighties ZomCom posted:Daise Congar was in the first episode. She's the one who insists on Egwene celebrate with them at the Inn and was one of the villagers that ganged up on and impaled a Trolloc. Oh really? Huh. Was she named in dialogue or just in the credits or w/e?
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2021 14:36
|
|
|
KOGAHAZAN!! posted:Oh really? Huh. Was she named in dialogue or just in the credits or w/e? It was the X-Ray thing. I don't think they ever mention her name in the episode.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2021 14:38
|
|
|
Hexel posted:They gave a little episode 6 clip on the brazilian twitch thing with Rosamund and Alvaro Morte last night. Elaida* (Red): In the books, by the time we get to the tower, Elaida has been booted from Caemlyn and gets an open sitter's chair thanks to Galina's influence as both Red Ajah Head and Black Ajah Supreme Council member. She then is used as a pawn to lead the deposition of Siuan and get Alviarin into the position of Keeper for a puppet Amyrlin. In the show, Tar Valon comes before Caemlyn, so it's likely Elaida is not here yet and Amira Moselle is still sitting for the Red. Teslyn (Red): part of the Ebou Dar plotline and gets captured by the Seanchan and rescued by Mat. Salidar Sitters: Lelaine (Blue): major faction leader in Salidar Lyrelle (Blue) Takima (Brown) Salidar Sitters sent by their Ajah heads to guide the rebels toward reconcilliation: Faiselle (Green) Varilin (Gray) Takima (Brown) Magla (Yellow) Saroiya (White) Black Ajah Hunters: Seaine (White): Elaida approaches her with an assignment of looking for traitors to the White Tower (specifically trying to get her to dig up dirt on Alviarin), which she takes to mean hunting the Black Ajah Pevara (Red): the first person Seaine enlists to help Yukiri (Gray) AND Saerin (Brown) AND Doesine (Yellow): the next three who figure out that Seaine and Pevara are up to something and discover them using the Oath Rod on rebel Aes Sedai "ferrets" and Black Ajah sisters as part of their hunt Black Ajah: Talene (Green): one of the first Black Ajah members that the hunters capture Evanellein (Gray) Sedore (Yellow) Velina (White)
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2021 14:58
|
|
|
I know it's probably blatantly obvious, but I adore the fact that most of the big bads get dropped because they genuinely can't understand someone being willing to die for what they believe in.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2021 15:18
|
|
|
Hexel posted:They gave a little episode 6 clip on the brazilian twitch thing with Rosamund and Alvaro Morte last night. Heh, remember when I wondered why people followed Logain? And when other people wondered why the White Tower was so oddly empty? The Wheel of Time trend of almost immediately answering gripes about the show continues unabated! Also, I just saw a show fan account on Twitter called "Mandarb Thee Stallion", which made me smile.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2021 15:20
|
|
|
Data Graham posted:I'm starting a reread to see how different the experience is now that I know what's going on (and now that it's no longer a hateread). It's slow going though, I'm only like 5 chapters in. I hadn't ever seen the Egwene "Earlier" prologue before; my ebook was silently upgraded since I bought it a few years ago. I'm also doing a re-read, and I think it's all pretty clear. Their beef with Thom is him showing up in the middle of the night and possibly telling "inappropriate" stories. It's all very "insular backwoods community" stuff, and pretty spot on based on my experience growing up in such a community. What's the Thom-Moirainne retcon? My version doesn't have them knowing each other. That sounds silly and bad it sucks they added it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2021 15:27
|
|
|
Eighties ZomCom posted:Daise Congar was in the first episode. She's the one who insists on Egwene celebrate with them at the Inn and was one of the villagers that ganged up on and impaled a Trolloc. Cenn Buie is in the episode as well, but again he's not named.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2021 15:27
|
|
|
Devorum posted:I'm also doing a re-read, and I think it's all pretty clear. Their beef with Thom is him showing up in the middle of the night and possibly telling "inappropriate" stories. It's all very "insular backwoods community" stuff, and pretty spot on based on my experience growing up in such a community. it comes in a later book i believe, because in retrospect it makes no sense that (spoiler i guess?) moirane wouldn't know the queen of andor's lover or that thom wouldn't know the sister of the future king of cairhein
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2021 15:31
|
|
|
Devorum posted:I'm also doing a re-read, and I think it's all pretty clear. Their beef with Thom is him showing up in the middle of the night and possibly telling "inappropriate" stories. It's all very "insular backwoods community" stuff, and pretty spot on based on my experience growing up in such a community. No I'm not saying the text was changed, I'm saying in the EotW text they clearly don't know each other, but then in later books it's revealed that they were totally acquainted years before, and in the EotW scene they're apparently just sort of playing coy and pretending they have no idea who each other are for the crowd's benefit.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2021 15:32
|
|
|
Data Graham posted:No I'm not saying the text was changed, I'm saying in the EotW text they clearly don't know each other, but then in later books it's revealed that they were totally acquainted years before, and in the EotW scene they're apparently just sort of playing coy and pretending they have no idea who each other are for the crowd's benefit. I always thought that later "reveal" was more that they'd like, known OF each other.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2021 15:37
|
|
|
Could be, I'm not clear on it at all.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2021 15:38
|
|
|
I always thought Thom's reaction to Moiraine in his first scene is because he just loving hates Aes Sedai after he 'let them' to gentled his nephew. That's kind of his whole shtick through the first book, after all, a kind of attempted redemption arc.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2021 15:42
|
|
|
I'm certain Thom clocks Moiraine as Aes Sedai right off, but more than that? I'm really regretting not having my books any more. Guess I'll have to drop a hundred quid on e-copies. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2021 15:42
|
|
|
buffalo all day posted:it comes in a later book i believe, because in retrospect it makes no sense that (spoiler i guess?) moirane wouldn't know the queen of andor's lover or that thom wouldn't know the sister of the future king of cairhein I always read that as they knew who the other was, but hadn't actually met and wouldn't recognize each other by sight. Especially not decades later.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2021 15:48
|
|
|
I'm not sure it's ever clear they knew each other directly but they absolutely would have known of each other. Thom would have known who a Cairhienin Aes Sedai of Moraine's description was likely to be, and Moiraine would have clocked who Thom was fairly quickly also, because Moraine is a younger scion of House Damodred and Thom is Morgase's former lover and Morgase married Taringail Damodred. Thom is Moiraine's older brother's widow's former boyfriend. Doesn't mean they had met but means they'd both be "oh you're THAT guy/gal" pretty quickly. Data Graham posted:No I'm not saying the text was changed, I'm saying in the EotW text they clearly don't know each other, but then in later books it's revealed that they were totally acquainted years before, and in the EotW scene they're apparently just sort of playing coy and pretending they have no idea who each other are for the crowd's benefit. It's not just the crowd's benefit. Thom is technically on the run from the Andoran Queen's Guards and in Andor; Moiraine could cause problems for him. Similarly, Thom knows Moiraine must be here for some sort of reason, even if he doesn't know what that reason is, and he could blow her cover as an Aes Sedai or tell stories that would get the village mad at her. Their first little conversation is both of them going "hey, no trouble, we're cool here, right?" "yeah we cool so long as x" "no problem" Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 15:51 on Dec 6, 2021 |
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2021 15:49
|
|
|
Thom and Moiraine are both incredibly politically savvy people who are among the best and most informed players of the Game of Houses in the books. They may have both been out of court circulation for a few years, but they definitely both knew of the other by name and reputation at the beginning of TEOTW. A young scion of a major Cairhienin house with Andoran connnections going to the White Tower and becoming Aes Sedai is exactly the kind of news that travels fast, as is the Grey Fox, Court Bard of Caemlyn and lover of the Queen of Andor, getting a warrant put out for his arrest by that same Queen. It's not clear if they had ever met in person prior to TEOTW, and it's also not clear how much Moiraine knew about his connection with Owyn in TEOTW. This seems like something she learns during TGH when she's offscreen and then hits him with at the beginning of TSR before everyone leaves Tear in a bid to get him away from Rand by convincing him to help protect Elayne in Tanchico. But yeah, we've rehashed this convo about Thom and Moiraine's romance and knowledge of each other a bunch of times in this thread. The knowledge is indisputable. The romance bit is thin but pretty obvious on reread - the lack of POV chapters from either of them early on and the naivety of the POV chapters we do get around them are most of the reason for this, IMO.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2021 15:53
|
|
|
They each immediately know the other are more than they're saying they are, and there's a weird tension that comes from them both letting the other know that they know that without letting anything on to the bumpkins that are watching the interaction. It's possible Moiraine knows exactly who Thom is right off the bat ("Master Bard") since he's not using a fake name or anything but that's never made explicit. There's a later conversation in... TSR, I think, where they kind of continue that first conversation by laying out all the details that they've dug up about each other since then. They're both super politically savvy players with layers upon layers of secrets, so of course that all flies over Rand's (and the readers') head. "What the hell was that all about" is a fair takeaway the first time through, but it's pro tier characterization and foreshadowing imo
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2021 15:55
|
|
|
Yeah and I guess my only real issue there is that there's nothing from Rand's POV going like "ok what the gently caress was THAT all about" as he watches the two of them dancing around each other. Makes me think I'm supposed to have understood something a lot more clearly, when really you're supposed to be completely in the dark at this point about whatever is going on between them. e: ^^ lol beaten in wording
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2021 15:58
|
|
|
It’s so thin it’s almost invisible. If they hadn’t gotten together nobody would have bat an eyelash.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2021 16:01
|
|
|
One of the best things about WoT in general is the unreliability of the narrators. They're not just lying to themselves (Rand, because he's crazy; Perrin, because he's a woolheaded idiot.), but they are also human with human gaps in their perceptions. Every chapter is done through the limited perceptions and thoughts of the point-of-view character. If the character doesn't know what's going on, there's no explicit text with their thoughts about it. This leads to many situations in which a character perceives an event (someone speaking to someone else, an open door that shouldn't be, etc), but doesn't act upon it or even think about it. All those passages of descriptive text serve to drop clues for the perceptive reader of events going on behind the scenes. This makes the world feel lived in, and while the PoV characters are important, it also serves to make the world move around them. Other characters have their own lives, and they live them, whether Rand & Co know it or not. Moiraine/Thom in EotW is one of the very first examples of this. The big difference is, at that point, we the reader have no more context for their interaction than Rand does. So he's just like "huh the gleeman is talking to that pretty lady" and moves on. Eventually we have enough knowledge to go "Oh, yeah, these two absolutely moved in the same social circles for years. They may not have directly met, but they likely know of the other. They are only a couple of degrees of separation apart, if that."
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2021 16:13
|
|
|
Moiraine dropping Master Bard is fantastic. It's just enough that he knows she knows something, while at the same time seeming polite and respectful to any listeners. I pity the fool that winds up in their crosshairs. Actually I'm expanding that to every Moiraine-Thom interaction. Their conversation in TSR especially. Comrade Blyatlov fucked around with this message at 16:18 on Dec 6, 2021 |
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2021 16:14
|
|
|
Thom is overall one of the better characters in the books but we never so far at least get a POV from his character. We get point of views from most of the other characters, but all we know of Thom is what other people see and comment on. Thom knows whats up though.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2021 16:25
|
|
|
Does he not get one in the Stone? I'm certain the conversation he has with Moiraine there is from his PoV. And there's the short one in tGH where he comes back to find Dena dead.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2021 16:29
|
|
|
He has one near the end, too, as hes stacking up black sisters
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2021 16:33
|
|
|
According to the stats page, Thom got six PoV chapters. The same number as Egeanin, Demandred, Sevanna and Loial.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2021 16:53
|
|
|
The prime video youtube account just posted up the amyrlin and logain clip and the interview afterwards with Rosamund and Alvaro https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Goe2xjbaBiY
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2021 17:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 22:41 |
|
|
Data Graham posted:Yeah and I guess my only real issue there is that there's nothing from Rand's POV going like "ok what the gently caress was THAT all about" as he watches the two of them dancing around each other. Abruptly the flow of words and the juggling alike stopped. Thom simply snatched the balls from the air and stopped talking. Unnoticed by Rand, Moiraine had joined the listeners. Lan was at her shoulder, though he had to look twice to see the man. For a moment Thom looked at Moiraine sideways, his face and body still except for making the balls disappear into his capacious coat sleeves. Then he bowed to her, holding his cloak wide. “Your pardon, but you are surely not from this district?” “Lady!” Ewin hissed fiercely. “The Lady Moiraine.” Thom blinked, then bowed again, more deeply. “Your pardon again ... ah, Lady. I meant no disrespect.” Moiraine made a small waving-away gesture. “None was perceived, Master Bard. And my name is simply Moiraine. I am indeed a stranger here, a traveler like yourself, far from home and alone. The world can be a dangerous place when one is a stranger.” “The Lady Moiraine collects stories,” Ewin put in. “Stories about things that happened in the Two Rivers. Though I don’t know what ever happened here to make a story of.” “I trust you will like my stories, as well ... Moiraine.” Thom watched her with obvious wariness. He looked not best pleased to find her there. Suddenly Rand wondered what sort of entertainment a lady like her might be offered in a city like Baerlon, or Caemlyn. Surely it could not be anything better than a gleeman. “That is a matter of taste, Master Bard,” Moiraine replied. “Some stories I like, and some I do not.” Thom’s bow was his deepest yet, bending his long body parallel to the ground. “I assure you, none of my stories will displease. All will please and entertain. And you do me too much honor. I am a simple gleeman; that and nothing more.” Moiraine answered his bow with a gracious nod. For an instant she seemed even more the lady Ewin had named her, accepting an offering from one of her subjects. Then she turned away, and Lan followed, a wolf heeling a gliding swan. Thom stared after them, bushy brows drawn down, stroking his long mustaches with a knuckle, until they were halfway up the Green. He’s not pleased at all, Rand thought.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2021 17:17
|
|