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Has a long series ever started in the middle, then gone backwards, like if they were to have made Star Wars Episode 4, then 1,2,3,5...? It seems like it could avoid the discovery writing mess that a lot of series get themselves into if done that way. I heard Narnia did something like that.
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Dec 6, 2021 17:44
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Coquito Ergo Sum posted:Has a long series ever started in the middle, then gone backwards, like if they were to have made Star Wars Episode 4, then 1,2,3,5...? It seems like it could avoid the discovery writing mess that a lot of series get themselves into if done that way. I heard Narnia did something like that. It's not like he didn't know what the bible said when he started writing.
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Dec 6, 2021 18:26
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Coquito Ergo Sum posted:Has a long series ever started in the middle, then gone backwards, like if they were to have made Star Wars Episode 4, then 1,2,3,5...? It seems like it could avoid the discovery writing mess that a lot of series get themselves into if done that way. I heard Narnia did something like that. Not really. The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe was meant to be the only Narnia book. The Magician's Nephew is sort of a prequel. The Horse and His Boy is sort of a spin off that takes place right after The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe and while the Pevensies are rulers of Narnia.
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Dec 6, 2021 18:51
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Coquito Ergo Sum posted:Has a long series ever started in the middle, then gone backwards, like if they were to have made Star Wars Episode 4, then 1,2,3,5...? It seems like it could avoid the discovery writing mess that a lot of series get themselves into if done that way. I heard Narnia did something like that. Malazan kinda does that. The timelines require a chart. Non-linear writing makes some things easier--the author gets to develop ideas and the world as problems arise, without needing to revise previous parts that were incompatible, because you can use the middle as a guide for writing the beginning, and then you use the middle and beginning together as a guide for the end. But it creates its own issues as well. You have to make sure that the individual pieces are self-contained enough to be satisfying in their own right without relying on the previous pieces that don't exist yet, or exist only in an outline that's probably not finalized. You get to just casually reference big plot or world-building ideas and not explain them fully, but at the risk of the reader losing trust in you.
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Dec 6, 2021 20:50
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OperaMouse posted:That books wasn't released yet. He should still have asked it. Shimrra Jamaane posted:Well in 2007 when this discussion occurred A Dance with Dragons didn’t exist and so neither did any of the Northern Plot. Ya ya. He could have even asked "what happened to Sandor Clegane?" that came in AFFC and was subtler still
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Dec 6, 2021 22:00
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One day it’ll come out that the real pitch meeting between GRRM and D&D was essentially “look you creepy old man, HBO just cancelled Rome because it was too expensive and is really tepid about a project of this scale, so the only thing you got going for you is us being into it. So either let us make it or you can stuff your stupid rear end books up your rear end.”
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Dec 7, 2021 01:00
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:One day it’ll come out that the real pitch meeting between GRRM and D&D was essentially “look you creepy old man, HBO just cancelled Rome because it was too expensive and is really tepid about a project of this scale, so the only thing you got going for you is us being into it. So either let us make it or you can stuff your stupid rear end books up your rear end.” Would have made for a better show even if it was only a single episode.
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Dec 7, 2021 01:37
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mind the walrus posted:I got bored this weekend and did a deep dive on loving Animorphs of all things. Now that was a series that went some loving places. You could honestly repurpose the story beats as-is and just rewrite it aimed at an adult audience with some added swears, and the content would scale up near-perfectly and hit the zeitgeist probably even better than it did in the 90s. Animorphs seems very well suited to be a big hit right now. Simple but interesting concept, accessible setting, enough political intrigue type stuff to add some depth (especially once the Yeerk internal conflicts get revealed), pretty heavy emotional beats throughout, diverse cast, etc. Thing it is it would require so much constant CGI for all the effects, which would eat into the budget pretty heavily. Maybe something that could be solved by creative editing? Or get the Henson company in there to handle the Andalites, Hork-Bajir, etc. Alternatively give it to whatever studio did Arcane or DOTA or Castlevania and let them go hog wild
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Dec 7, 2021 16:24
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Mat Cauthon posted:Animorphs seems very well suited to be a big hit right now. Simple but interesting concept, accessible setting, enough political intrigue type stuff to add some depth (especially once the Yeerk internal conflicts get revealed), pretty heavy emotional beats throughout, diverse cast, etc. I kind of love that Animorphs actually has this deep story and people were upset how it ended etc... because it's also the series of books with possibly the stupidest covers and constantly made fun of; and looks so dumb just judging by the covers.
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Dec 7, 2021 18:18
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13 year old me loved those covers. Seeing those at the school book fair was what got me reading them. I still have the first 30 some odd books. Read the rest many years later online (you can dl them free at this point) just to find out what happened.
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Dec 7, 2021 19:02
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banned from Starbucks posted:ha i mean in the sense of not even bothering with a wet fart ending The best thing HBO could've done was end GoT 3 seasons earlier with a bunch of unresolved plots and people screaming for more. Then start pumping out all the prequel stuff since fans would still want to see it. Instead, interest in ASOIAF dropped off a cliff the moment the series finale crashed and burned (not that it could end any other way). Now you've got a bunch of dumb GenX and Millennial parents who named their daughters after Lady Dragon Hitler because they were so oblivious to Dany's issues that it took her burning down a city due to ringing bells and declaring her plans to conquer the world to see that, oh yeah the daughter of an insane king and bloodthirsty lineage is also bad.
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Dec 7, 2021 19:15
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Evil Fluffy posted:The best thing HBO could've done was end GoT 3 seasons earlier with a bunch of unresolved plots and people screaming for more. Then start pumping out all the prequel stuff since fans would still want to see it. Instead, interest in ASOIAF dropped off a cliff the moment the series finale crashed and burned (not that it could end any other way). Now you've got a bunch of dumb GenX and Millennial parents who named their daughters after Lady Dragon Hitler because they were so oblivious to Dany's issues that it took her burning down a city due to ringing bells and declaring her plans to conquer the world to see that, oh yeah the daughter of an insane king and bloodthirsty lineage is also bad. I mean, the best thing they could have done is make GRRM finish the books, or force him to let someone else finish them under his name. Then people would probably have been able to read their favorite book moments into whatever the show came up with, like they did for S5 Dorne.
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Dec 7, 2021 19:32
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pidan posted:I mean, the best thing they could have done is make GRRM finish the books, or force him to let someone else finish them under his name. Then people would probably have been able to read their favorite book moments into whatever the show came up with, like they did for S5 Dorne.
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Dec 7, 2021 21:25
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They’ll probably still make a ton of money after he dies and someone else writes it. I’m sure they don’t care too much at this point.
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Dec 7, 2021 21:31
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:They had no leverage to do this - the leverage went the other way and they were at least somewhat relying on his goodwill. If anything *he* should have forced them to revise their scripts until they didn't suck - he was in a position to trash the show publicly. he almost certainly was not in a position to trash the show publicly. film and television contracts usually include a clause about how you can not talk poo poo about the thing until x time after it has been published. there was a big thing about this with the totally poo poo film "dying of the light" where the writer/director was not given final cut and him and nic cage and anton yelchin all refused to talk about the film because they had nothing nice to say and would be sued if they said anything not nice
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Dec 7, 2021 22:53
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pidan posted:I mean, the best thing they could have done is make GRRM finish the books, or force him to let someone else finish them under his name. Then people would probably have been able to read their favorite book moments into whatever the show came up with, like they did for S5 Dorne. Nothing short of him signing an agreement along the lines of "if you don't finish the books HBO gets all rights to ASOIAF and can hire someone else to finish them" would let that happen and lmao if you think GRRM would've signed anything like that.
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Dec 7, 2021 23:26
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jsoh posted:he almost certainly was not in a position to trash the show publicly. film and television contracts usually include a clause about how you can not talk poo poo about the thing until x time after it has been published. there was a big thing about this with the totally poo poo film "dying of the light" where the writer/director was not given final cut and him and nic cage and anton yelchin all refused to talk about the film because they had nothing nice to say and would be sued if they said anything not nice
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Dec 8, 2021 00:07
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he's worked in tv and film for decades I think he's likely internalized most of the culture of not making GBS threads on the product, and also he's got money but he doesn't have get sued by warner brothers and be fine money
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Dec 8, 2021 00:10
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pseudanonymous posted:I kind of love that Animorphs actually has this deep story and people were upset how it ended etc... because it's also the series of books with possibly the stupidest covers and constantly made fun of; and looks so dumb just judging by the covers. Like yeah it's all written at a preteen level with the dumbest loving covers, but compared to that it really puts little Miss "Oh wow life as a foreign invader means I made insurgent enemies? How could this have happened?" into perspective, and honestly I don't think even GRRM really understands how detestable the characters of ASoIaF actually are just on their faces (in the good way). And that's not even counting the actual sci-fi stuff, which features some goofy-rear end but surprisingly endearing alien designs and concepts. If you're into TNG/DS9/Babylon 5-era sci-fi at all I highly recommend discovering/rediscovering Animorphs-- it'll 100% scratch some of that itch. Evil Fluffy posted:The best thing HBO could've done was end GoT 3 seasons earlier with a bunch of unresolved plots and people screaming for more. Then start pumping out all the prequel stuff since fans would still want to see it. Instead, interest in ASOIAF dropped off a cliff the moment the series finale crashed and burned (not that it could end any other way). Now you've got a bunch of dumb GenX and Millennial parents who named their daughters after Lady Dragon Hitler because they were so oblivious to Dany's issues that it took her burning down a city due to ringing bells and declaring her plans to conquer the world to see that, oh yeah the daughter of an insane king and bloodthirsty lineage is also bad. Evil Fluffy posted:Nothing short of him signing an agreement along the lines of "if you don't finish the books HBO gets all rights to ASOIAF and can hire someone else to finish them" would let that happen and lmao if you think GRRM would've signed anything like that.
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Dec 8, 2021 00:12
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Everyone talks about how much merch probably doesn't get bought anymore, so I decided to check out the official merch store and got some laughs out of it.             
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Dec 8, 2021 03:55
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pseudanonymous posted:I kind of love that Animorphs actually has this deep story and people were upset how it ended etc... because it's also the series of books with possibly the stupidest covers and constantly made fun of; and looks so dumb just judging by the covers. Apparently the Vietnamese covers kept the same basic format but classed things up a bit. https://imgur.com/a/Yh5mxDh mind the walrus posted:Reading up on it and it honestly chumps the everloving gently caress out of Harry Potter and Dany's entire story in ASoIaF. Jake isn't just the defacto leader of these kids, he grows into it so much that by the end of the series he's legitimately sacrificing entire platoons of children as feints and then willing to be held accountable for war crimes he committed in the heat of the moment. Rachel goes from "I'm a bit of an adrenaline junkie" to a loving black ops assassin. Even the goddamn pacifists like Cassie and Ax are shown to be willing to be really pragmatic and even corruptible in the face of guerilla war. There's a goofy time travel story and the legit solution Cassie comes up with is "ok we have to erase this dude from existence" and then they do that with the guy taking a moment to acknowledge that he's about to get wiped out of the universe and that this is for the greater good. They also slit Hitler's throat during that story. The YA structure elides some of the absolutely grim stuff in Animorphs, going back and revisiting it as an adult you see how it could've been way more disturbing. All the protagonists have to make horribly immoral choices, get tortured mentally or physically at various times during the series (some of them more than once), deal with their families getting torn apart as part of the fallout of their war, endure a bunch of body horror stuff that would drive anyone insane, encounter Lovecraftian beings that continually gently caress with them, etc. At the end of it only two of them are able to operate as functional human beings IIRC - everyone else either goes out in a blaze of glory akin to suicide or crumbles under the weight of what they had to do to "win". The actual ending is... Earth gets conscripted into a new "benevolent" empire while the heroes who can't cope go looking for their missing friend and find out some absolutely terrible poo poo is coming their way. How many series have the balls to go out like that, and not try to sugar coat it? There are plenty of goofy or cringy YA aspects that have aged horribly but honestly the series on the whole is much better than it has any right to be especially considering how much of it was ghost written. Mat Cauthon fucked around with this message at 04:10 on Dec 8, 2021 |
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Dec 8, 2021 04:07
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There's a good Let's Read Animorphs thread that's up to book 33 now (one of the "absolutely grim" ones), if you want more Animorphs chat. And there are some people in there who didn't read the books at all or didn't get this far, whose reactions are usually quite entertaining.Gnoman posted:Did our hero just leave an innocent homeless man to be brutally murdered as a distraction?
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Dec 8, 2021 04:21
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Mat Cauthon posted:Apparently the Vietnamese covers kept the same basic format but classed things up a bit. Only Cassie is a functional human being at the end. They all go on the suicide mission except her. Also, what is loving amazing is the letter the author posted after the series was over. It is still up if you want to read it http://www.hiracdelest.com/database/articles/kaa_response-full.htm, but basically readers where unhappy with the sad ending. Applegate is like: Oh yeah? WELL THAT'S WAR KIDS! IT SUCKS! IT ALWAYS SUCKS! So when you're old enough to vote, don't vote for pro-war politicians!
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Dec 8, 2021 17:55
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Ok Chamberlain.
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Dec 8, 2021 18:24
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KellHound posted:Only Cassie is a functional human being at the end. They all go on the suicide mission except her. And to think this letter was written pre-Afghanistan and Iraq. Hell, it was pre-9/11 barely the skin of its teeth too. It reads a LOT differently two decades and an entire Forever War removed now, doesn't it? Especially after an unsmall amount of the kids who probably complained about how "lovely" the ending to the series was then went and fought in an actual unwinnable hell war themselves. I'm also gonna second everyone checking out Epicurius' Let's Read of Animorphs, it's really good.
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Dec 8, 2021 22:06
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Dec 9, 2021 00:58
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I want to see Christian Cameron on this chart.
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Dec 9, 2021 01:16
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I'd be interested to see how well a time shifted Isacc "What would I do if I was told I only had 30 minutes to live? Type faster" Asimov would do on this graph as well.
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Dec 9, 2021 01:54
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It is goddamn insane how prolific Stephen King is. Every time I see it I'm just in awe. Dude hasn't written anything good in twenty years or so but you never have to worry about him getting his drafts in on time.
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Dec 9, 2021 02:50
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My mom bought me a ‘i drink and i know things’ sweater last year and i’ve never had to smile through my teeth harder for a gift. Like it was just a culmination of ‘you’re an alcoholic smartass who loves a piece of poo poo book or show or whatever gently caress you.’ I know she meant well but god drat.
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Dec 9, 2021 05:57
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Is the book out yet
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Dec 9, 2021 06:57
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To be fair (ugh) to GRRM, AGOT is nowhere near his first published work.
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Dec 9, 2021 07:43
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Mat Cauthon posted:It is goddamn insane how prolific Stephen King is. Every time I see it I'm just in awe. Dude hasn't written anything good in twenty years or so but you never have to worry about him getting his drafts in on time. yeah, he kept on writing after the accident, but hasn't made anything good since
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Dec 9, 2021 09:38
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Look at how steep Sanderson's line is as well. Give him a couple more decades and King is going to find himself surpassed on word count.
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Dec 9, 2021 09:41
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Deptfordx posted:Look at how steep Sanderson's line is as well. Give him a couple more decades and King is going to find himself surpassed on word count. unfortunately he was never good
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Dec 9, 2021 09:43
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I quite liked the first Mistborn trilogy, but I was indifferent to his stand alone novels like Warbreaker. The last book of his I actually read was 2010's The Way of Kings, which I found a tedious slog which I only finished because I was in hospital for the weekend and literally had nothing else to do.
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Dec 9, 2021 10:10
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Mat Cauthon posted:It is goddamn insane how prolific Stephen King is. Every time I see it I'm just in awe. There's a bit in Bag of Bones where the protagonist (A novelist, naturally) develops a severe and unbreakable case of writer's block. It persists for years, but nobody but himself realizes this, because he just so happens to have a safety deposit box filled with completed but unpublished manuscripts going back decades; books he finished but decided weren't good enough for publication, and sat on. By turning these over to his publisher he maintains the fiction that he's still a successful writer. I remember reading that and realizing immediately that this detail is almost certainly autobiographical. When Stephen King dies people are going to take a sledgehammer to his walls and find every empty space in his house filled with unpublished novels, like Prince's secret music vault.
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Dec 9, 2021 14:49
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Oh yeah when King dies the estate will probably let them publish every grocery list and half finished outline he ever jotted down, it's going to be terrible.
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Dec 9, 2021 15:07
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Old Kentucky Shark posted:It's probably worse than anyone knows. and then there's also misery where a pill addicted author is forced to write by a deranged fan Mat Cauthon posted:Oh yeah when King dies the estate will probably let them publish every grocery list and half finished outline he ever jotted down, it's going to be terrible. absolutely
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Dec 9, 2021 15:12
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pidan posted:Is the book out yet
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Dec 9, 2021 16:14
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