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mr.belowaverage posted:I’m sorry, doesn’t the fan box replace the ceiling box? Here is what I have.  Apparently this is called an "octagon" box and all of the ones like it on Lowes.com are only rated for light fixtures up to 50 lbs. My new ceiling fan is 70 lbs. It also moves around a bit when I touch it.
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Dec 8, 2021 06:07
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What model Hunter fan is this? I never shelved a ceiling fan heavier than probably 40 pounds when I worked freight at home depot. Is there an attic or access from above the box? CRUSTY MINGE fucked around with this message at 06:35 on Dec 8, 2021 |
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Dec 8, 2021 06:31
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CRUSTY MINGE posted:Is there an attic or access from above the box? Yeah there's an attic up there. CRUSTY MINGE posted:What model Hunter fan is this? I never shelved a ceiling fan heavier than probably 40 pounds when I worked freight at home depot. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Hunter-Aerodyne-52-in-Indoor-Matte-Silver-Smart-Ceiling-Fan-with-Light-Kit-and-Remote-Control-51315/316524450 Says it's a little over 21 lbs but I assume the box should be rated higher due to blades moving around so poo poo doesn't cause strain and wiggle out of the ceiling. EDIT: WELP   "70 lbs OR LESS" 
I. M. Gei fucked around with this message at 06:42 on Dec 8, 2021 |
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Dec 8, 2021 06:40
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Okay. Your box is probably fine, but you may want to climb into the attic and locate it anyhow, if you want to upgrade that, you'll need to do it from above. Sometimes they have a little play between the box and bracket to keep from putting stress on the bracket when you tighten the new fixture bracket to the box. Anyhow, this bracket will bolt to that box. The rubber feet go against the ceiling, the slots between the rubber feet will need to line up with the holes in the tabs, try to center the holes in the slots, tighten down the included machine screws called for in the instructions. You may need to buy longer screws if the box is deeply recessed. If they weren't provided, use the screws from the previously attached fixture.  Once that bracket is on, you can hang the fan from that socket with the ball the downrod connects to, and wire from there. E: the cover for all that, to hide the bracket and box, probably needs to go on the downrod before connecting it to the ball, then slides in place over everything when the wiring is done. It's been a while since I hung a fan, but I've put up a couple Hunters and that plastic cover usually just snaps over the bracket or is held by a set screw or two. E2: just noticed the instructions say machine screws not included, so the best bet is to take one from the previous fixture, that screwed through that tab in the box, to a hardware store and match up some new ones of appropriate length, and washers that correspond. CRUSTY MINGE fucked around with this message at 07:25 on Dec 8, 2021 |
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Dec 8, 2021 07:10
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Okay here's a question. My ceiling box has a white wire and a black wire, but no green/grounding wire. The round metal plate that was up there earlier had a green wire screwed into it. I assume this box is made for a similar setup? Should I just look for a hole that's the right size for the small green screw and put the green wire there?
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Dec 8, 2021 08:01
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You could tie the bracket and fan ground to each other in a wire nut and just put it aside, then match black to black, white to white, it will still work. You just won't have the added benefit of an earth ground should something go wrong (unlikely but always plausible). It doesn't carry power unless something is really wrong, like an internal short. It's nice to have a ground, but not necessary, and it will work without it. If you've already had a fan up there before, I wouldn't suspect there's a reason to be concerned with a missing ground, especially in an older home, where it'd be uncommon to see a ground unless the home was rewired in the last 30 years. E: tying the bracket and fan ground together does nothing for actual ground. Leave them apart, tie them together, but cap or tape them off anyhow before closing up the box. CRUSTY MINGE fucked around with this message at 08:50 on Dec 8, 2021 |
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Dec 8, 2021 08:46
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I. M. Gei posted:Okay here's a question. My ceiling box has a white wire and a black wire, but no green/grounding wire. The round metal plate that was up there earlier had a green wire screwed into it. I assume this box is made for a similar setup? If you loosen the wire clamp on the right, there may be some slack in the wire. If you pull it out a bit, you may find there is a ground that has been trimmed. You only need a little to tie to.
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Dec 8, 2021 13:48
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mr.belowaverage posted:If you loosen the wire clamp on the right, there may be some slack in the wire. If you pull it out a bit, you may find there is a ground that has been trimmed. You only need a little to tie to.
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Dec 8, 2021 15:52
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Honestly not a big deal that there's no ground, any house built before the 90s/00s isn't going to have it unless it was rewired in between.
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Dec 8, 2021 16:13
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Our house was built in the 60s and hasn't been rewired in the time we've been here and very probably not before that either. It needs to be but it hasn't been yet.
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Dec 8, 2021 16:42
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I. M. Gei posted:Our house was built in the 60s and hasn't been rewired in the time we've been here and very probably not before that either. It needs to be but it hasn't been yet.
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Dec 8, 2021 19:36
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Our bathrooms don't have electrical outlets at all. One of them kinda does along the mirror lights, but it's only wired to draw power from other parts of the house while the lights are turned on, so it doesn't power anything when they're off. And even when they're on it doesn't provide much. Our circuit panel is also super old and only like 60A. We had a guy out here to give us an estimate on a home generator last year and he can't even install one unless we replace that panel with a 90A or 100A one, which we can't afford to do. I. M. Gei fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Dec 8, 2021 |
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Dec 8, 2021 19:45
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CRUSTY MINGE posted:Honestly not a big deal that there's no ground, any house built before the 90s/00s isn't going to have it unless it was rewired in between. What? Our 1978 original wiring is absolutely grounded. I thought NM w/ground came about in the 60s? and sure looks like a cut off ground wire right here:  edit: and please, take the time to upgrade the box to a fan rated one, regardless of the weight of your fan. do it right. ROJO fucked around with this message at 23:19 on Dec 8, 2021 |
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Dec 8, 2021 23:14
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melon cat posted:Bricks are an option for temporary propping up of your emerg pump, but make sure that the emerg pump doesn't "kick" too hard when activated. Usually this isn't a problem when it's anchored down by your 1/3 HP sump pump but since it's disconnected it might jolt when activated. Also consider getting or renting a portable submersible pump instead so you can place it into your sump pit while you work on your pump. Yeah, I wound up just putting the non-functional main pump back in because I couldn't take apart the backup and primary pumps without a lot of frustration and potentially re-piping the whole thing afterwards, so bricks weren't needed. The replacement impeller only cost me 20$, (5$ for the impeller, 15$ for shipping). I should have had them send 2 impellers. I swapped the impeller today without issue and now have a functioning primary pump again. In hilarious news, the trickle charger they include for the big ole AGM battery wasn't able to keep the battery charged through days of use - thankfully my battery tender (that I have for use when storing vehicles) had a fast charge AGM mode, so once the battery was topped of I set that to trickle charge and it kept the battery full until now. I'm happy I get to return the spare sump pump I picked up in case of emergency, having never opened the box. TrueChaos fucked around with this message at 02:57 on Dec 9, 2021 |
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Dec 9, 2021 00:05
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I know a guy whose boat sank on Lake St. Clair during inclement weather when his bilge pump failed. Followed by his secondary bilge pump.
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Dec 9, 2021 00:56
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I'm going to build some shelves using 1/2" steel nipple piping (OD is .84") for the vertical supports and some kind of 1x11x48" plywood for the shelves. I'm pretty sure the answer is "I'll be fine" but before I dump $200 into this I just want to make sure that the pipe will be strong enough to support the weight of shelves + books and movies. Overall height will be ~73".
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Dec 9, 2021 05:35
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yoohoo posted:I'm going to build some shelves using 1/2" steel nipple piping (OD is .84") for the vertical supports and some kind of 1x11x48" plywood for the shelves. I'm pretty sure the answer is "I'll be fine" but before I dump $200 into this I just want to make sure that the pipe will be strong enough to support the weight of shelves + books and movies. Overall height will be ~73". You're asking if vertical pipes will be able to handle the compressive forces of maybe a couple hundred pounds of books? I can't imagine that they'd have a problem in that usage. The primary concern would be if the shelves exerted enough leverage on the posts to bend them, which a) is unlikely, and b) would be a non-issue if you cross-brace the posts, which you should do anyway to avoid racking. For example, stick a T on all four posts at some set height and run pipes between each post. You can use the sagulator to figure out if your plywood shelves will be strong enough for the weight you want to put on them, though.
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Dec 9, 2021 06:04
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ROJO posted:What? Our 1978 original wiring is absolutely grounded. I thought NM w/ground came about in the 60s? I don't think it was adopted into code until later, even though it came out prior, so if you have it before it was mandated, good on the builders of your home. That might be a ground wire poking down, another good reason to go ahead into the attic and take a look. Replacing the box would be the right thing to do, too. If you can afford to do it, Gei, replace the box. Just because I'd use a shady box in my dwelling, doesn't mean you should.
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Dec 9, 2021 06:21
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:You're asking if vertical pipes will be able to handle the compressive forces of maybe a couple hundred pounds of books? I can't imagine that they'd have a problem in that usage. The primary concern would be if the shelves exerted enough leverage on the posts to bend them, which a) is unlikely, and b) would be a non-issue if you cross-brace the posts, which you should do anyway to avoid racking. For example, stick a T on all four posts at some set height and run pipes between each post. Yeah that's exactly what I'm asking. What you're saying is there's a chance that any sag in the wood could cause the piping to collapse in? I already used the sagulator and the shelves are in the acceptable range, if that affects the need for any crossbars? Otherwise I'll pick up some T's and two pipes to run the width of the shelf.
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Dec 9, 2021 06:36
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My fan is ALMOST all the way installed. The fan portion works beautifully and with no wobble that I can tell. All that's left to install now is the light kit, which is proving more frustrating than it should because the dumbasses at Hunter didn't put the right number of screws with my unit. My fan was supposed to include two screws to attach the lights to the motor, but it only came with one, which isn't enough to align the thing and get it on securely which presents a risk of it falling off if the fan ever wobbles. I'm not taking that risk, so I went looking for screws that matched the one that did come with my fan... only to discover that nobody in town sells any that size. So I decided to call an audible; I got some drill bits to enlarge the fan screw-holes very slightly to a size that I CAN get screws for, and I'm gonna mount the light kit using those instead. As far as I can tell this shouldn't cause any issues.
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Dec 9, 2021 08:41
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Speaking of annoying/crappy electrical stuff, I have a bad outlet. It's been fine the entire time I've been here (over two years) until now, when I plugged something in and it the circuit. I SUSPECT it's because plugging it in moved it just enough inside the box for it to arc to said box (new enough to use NM cable, but old enough to all be metal boxes with ground attached to boxes, as well, not directly to the outlets or fixtures.) Reset the breaker but it tripped as soon as just my outlet tester was plugged into it. The odd things is, again owing to just bad mid-century electrical shenanigans, is that there is, at best, 3 outlets and no overheat lights on this circuit, in two different rooms. I know of 2 outlets that do not work right now, and every other outlet in the house, save one, I have either manually checked is working or there is something plugged in still working. I'm just going to assume that one is on the same circuit for now and verify if/when I decide to replace that one too. Just odd to have a circuit with so few receptacles on it, spread over two rooms...I'm plenty used to a circuit spread out over two...or three...or in one case in my house, three rooms PLUS a garage, but in those cases you typically have TOO MANY receptacles on the circuit, just seems odd that it would be across two rooms but only be 3 outlets. I've considered the possibility it used to be 1 room and was later converted to 2, but unlikely. It's your standard post-war, 3 bedroom, roughly 1000 sq ft ranch home. I could go to half the drat houses in my neighborhood and they'd have near identical floor plans.
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Dec 9, 2021 16:26
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yoohoo posted:Yeah that's exactly what I'm asking. What you're saying is there's a chance that any sag in the wood could cause the piping to collapse in? I already used the sagulator and the shelves are in the acceptable range, if that affects the need for any crossbars? Otherwise I'll pick up some T's and two pipes to run the width of the shelf. The crossbars are less for supporting the weight of the books and more to prevent the vertical supports from racking. Without cross bracing the vertical support pipes PremiumSupport fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Dec 9, 2021 |
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Dec 9, 2021 20:05
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yoohoo posted:Yeah that's exactly what I'm asking. What you're saying is there's a chance that any sag in the wood could cause the piping to collapse in? I already used the sagulator and the shelves are in the acceptable range, if that affects the need for any crossbars? Otherwise I'll pick up some T's and two pipes to run the width of the shelf. The need for crossbars doesn't have anything really to do with the strength of the material the posts are made out of. You could use 8x8 lumber and still need crossbars. Imagine grabbing one of the posts on your design and pushing it sideways. What resists the sideways force? If there's no crossbars, then the post can easily tilt, and the other posts will tilt with it, and the entire structure can collapse. That's what "racking" is. You could use the shelves themselves as the crosspieces. All you'd need to do is tie them securely to the posts.
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Dec 9, 2021 20:32
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 The only thing resisting side-to-side racking in this design is the strength of the T-junctions holding the cross bars on each leg, and the strength of the screws between the top round brackets and the table surface. There is basically nothing resisting racking in the for-and-back direction except the screws. This is a bad design unless it will be bolted to a wall somehow.  The big Xes on these legs completely prevents racking in both directions. This is a good design.  The angle brace running from the x-shaped legs to the top of this table provides racking resistance in the direction of that brace. This is a good design.  The tall vertical dimension of the wooden bracing on this table, both as aprons at the top and as the braces between the legs, resist racking forces. The taller those boards, the better they work. This is an excellent design, because the aprons join directly to the legs and to the table top, and the leg bracing adds additional stiffness and reduces or eliminates stress on those top joints. Every freestanding design will rack a little, depending on the flexibility of the pieces, how they're joined, their width, how big of a triangle or how tall of a brace is used, etc. etc. The important thing is to just take racking forces into account with a design. You can bolt your shelves to the wall and they won't rack measurably because the whole wall will serve as a giant rack-resistant member. You can put a sheet of plywood as a backer onto a standing shelf, and the whole sheet acts to resist racking. You can use triangles, Xes, skirts, aprons, etc. Or, if you use really beefy, stout pipe fittings, maybe they'll be stiff enough for you. Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Dec 9, 2021 |
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Dec 9, 2021 20:47
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:The need for crossbars doesn't have anything really to do with the strength of the material the posts are made out of. You could use 8x8 lumber and still need crossbars. Imagine grabbing one of the posts on your design and pushing it sideways. What resists the sideways force? If there's no crossbars, then the post can easily tilt, and the other posts will tilt with it, and the entire structure can collapse. That's what "racking" is. It'll have 7 shelves total with the piping running through holes I'll drill in the corners of each shelf, so in theory it shouldn't move at all, correct? Like the shelves will be locked in place. I'm admittedly a newbie with this kind of stuff, but in my head it feels fairly solid. I can pick up some T's and a crossbar though if that's recommended.
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Dec 10, 2021 00:23
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yoohoo posted:It'll have 7 shelves total with the piping running through holes I'll drill in the corners of each shelf, so in theory it shouldn't move at all, correct? Like the shelves will be locked in place. I'm admittedly a newbie with this kind of stuff, but in my head it feels fairly solid. I can pick up some T's and a crossbar though if that's recommended. Your goal is to keep this:  from turning into this:  Adding shelves helps some, but only in proportion to the thickness of the shelves and the tightness of their fit. A racking square exerts a tremendous amount of leverage on things attached to it, so your "strong" design:  can still fairly easily become this:  I haven't changed the lengths of any of the lines, I've just changed the angles. The only force this design can supply to resist racking like this is the force keeping the pipe segments in the holes you drilled in the plywood. Especially if those holes are near the edge of the plywood, that's not a lot. However, a design like this:  would be considerably stronger. In this setup, if the pipes start to slant over, the diagonal braces will be put into tension / compression, resisting the racking force. I drew the braces pretty small here, but I think this is all you'd really need for this application.
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Dec 10, 2021 00:55
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That's extremely helpful. I've got a 7/8" forstner bit I'll drill the holes with and the outside diameter of the pipes is .84, so I don't know where that falls on the "it'll be tight" spectrum, but it seems like a tight fit. Assuming everything goes to plan they'll be 1" thick. I plan on having 2" between the edge of the shelves and the pipes. That said I'm taking your advice - I want some kind of brace. The shelf will look pretty similar to this https://imgur.com/a/ARgKQOT if that helps. I'm not entirely sure how I'd connect a diagonal brace from the piping to the wood, and I can't imagine putting a brace between the shelves would provide any support. Any ideas there? Thanks for bearing with me.
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Dec 10, 2021 01:38
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Its amazing how much stiffness that cheap rear end cardboard backing gives to particleboard book shelves to keep them from racking.
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Dec 10, 2021 01:55
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yoohoo posted:That's extremely helpful. I've got a 7/8" forstner bit I'll drill the holes with and the outside diameter of the pipes is .84, so I don't know where that falls on the "it'll be tight" spectrum, but it seems like a tight fit. Assuming everything goes to plan they'll be 1" thick. I plan on having 2" between the edge of the shelves and the pipes. The best idea I have after spending a few minutes thinking about it is to make a stretcher. This would be a long, reasonably wide piece of plywood, like your shelves except that it is rotated 90 degrees compared to the regular shelves. It still runs from one end of the bookshelf to the other, but it's tall and with nearly zero depth, instead of short and with significant depth. Then you need to secure this piece to the pipes. There's a few ways you could do that; one would be to make short blocks with holes in them for the pipe to pass through, and then glue/screw the stretcher to those blocks. I wouldn't recommend just attaching the stretcher to the shelves themselves, based on the photo you provided, just because I'm a bit nervous about how close the pipes are to the edges of the shelves. The stretcher resists racking forces much like the diagonal braces I drew earlier would. wesleywillis posted:Its amazing how much stiffness that cheap rear end cardboard backing gives to particleboard book shelves to keep them from racking. Yeah, this is the same concept.
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Dec 10, 2021 02:02
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E: ^^^ that would work fine too, I missed this post somehowyoohoo posted:That's extremely helpful. I've got a 7/8" forstner bit I'll drill the holes with and the outside diameter of the pipes is .84, so I don't know where that falls on the "it'll be tight" spectrum, but it seems like a tight fit. Assuming everything goes to plan they'll be 1" thick. I plan on having 2" between the edge of the shelves and the pipes. Otherwise nailing a back of some sort to the backside of the shelves is probably the best option and probably cheaper than pipe cross members, though it does change the look of the thing. 1/4" plywood is fine, or masonite/hardboard works well too, and paints very nicely. You need a couple nails/screws along each shelf.
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Dec 10, 2021 03:14
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If the goon was to add only "T" fittings to stiffen it up, it would also matter which way they were oriented too would it not? Example: if the "straight through" part of the T was vertical. Integrated with the four posts for example, it would help with rigidity in the side to side direction, but not so much for the front to back. While having the T horizontal would help with front to back movement but not side to side. Front to back being towards and away from the wall while side - side would be left to right movement.
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Dec 10, 2021 03:25
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The ikea cross brace is cheap and effective if you have one near you: https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/observatoer-cross-brace-galvanized-87749600/ I recently assembled a set of the Hejne shelves which have roughly zero resistance to racking (because the connections between the uprights and the shelves act as pin joints) and that brace stiffens them right up. If you’re not near an ikea or the dimensions don’t work out there might be similar alternatives elsewhere.
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Dec 10, 2021 05:08
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I appreciate all the help! I'm hesitant to put a board in the back because like you say, it would totally change the look of it. I've got an Ikea pretty close to me so I think I'll give that cross brace a shot. If, after building the shelf, I decide it could be sturdier I can add a back later.
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Dec 11, 2021 00:30
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I've got a new washing machine and gas dryer coming tomorrow to finally replace the ones the PO left with the house. The existing units were both plugged in to a basic surge protector strip which was itself plugged in to a 20A simplex outlet on a dedicated circuit. I'm now questioning if this is correct and can't find anything cut and dry googling. Should I replace the simplex with a 20A duplex and plug them both in to the wall, or is there a certain type of multi outlet protector I can/should use? It's also within 6' of a sink and I'm reading that I guess I'm supposed to have a GFCI there so what's the correct and best arrangement here?
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Dec 11, 2021 02:36
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The surge protector makes me wince.
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Dec 11, 2021 03:00
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I guess this is probably the part of the thread where I find out I should have done something about this a long time ago
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Dec 11, 2021 03:28
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I am still trying to attach the light kit on this loving ceiling fan. By enlarging pre-drilled factory holes and adding store-bought screws that have yet to fit, instead of just ordering a whole new fan and trying to replace the plate that the light kit screws into with the one from the replacement fan (assuming that's possible) like a normal person because doing that would involve SHIPPING TIMES and I just HAAAAAVE to finish this thing RIGHT NOW (and because I'm terrified of having to take down everything I already put up and do that poo poo all over again — that wiring was a BIIIIIITCH I only had like 3 inches of ceiling wire to work with and maybe an inch of space between the canopy and the ceiling to fit my hands into and see what the gently caress I was doing). I came SO CLOSE to succeeding tonight, by enlarging the holes to 3/16" which SOMEHOW made them too big for actual 3/16" screws, but ALMOST made them just the right size for slightly-larger #10 screws. Basically the #10s went in well enough to catch the holes with their threads, but the fit was just slightly too loose so they screwed in when turned in both directions and went a bit further when pushed. I'm gonna try ONE LAST TIME to make this poo poo work before I call Hunter and order a replacement unit. I will enlarge the holes to 13/64" and try using #12 screws. If that doesn't work then I give the gently caress up. In fact I may go ahead and just order the replacement unit now; I already have the fan part of this one working and that's the part I need most right now so I can probably afford to wait on shipping at this point. I. M. Gei fucked around with this message at 08:14 on Dec 11, 2021 |
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Dec 11, 2021 08:12
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Fix It Fast: I am still trying to attach this loving ceiling fan.
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Dec 11, 2021 09:47
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Not the whole fan, just the lighting assembly. Everything else is done.
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Dec 11, 2021 10:51
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Final Blog Entry posted:I've got a new washing machine and gas dryer coming tomorrow to finally replace the ones the PO left with the house. The existing units were both plugged in to a basic surge protector strip which was itself plugged in to a 20A simplex outlet on a dedicated circuit. I'm now questioning if this is correct and can't find anything cut and dry googling. Should I replace the simplex with a 20A duplex and plug them both in to the wall, or is there a certain type of multi outlet protector I can/should use? Remove appliances. Shoot the surge protector into the sun. Shut down circuit. remove simplex install GFI duplex. You might want to replace the single box with a double because appliance manufacturers looove right-angled plugs and you'll only be able to plug one in to a duplex outlet. The easiest way to do this after removing the single box is to widen the opening in the drywall with a drywall saw and install an old-work box.
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Dec 11, 2021 15:35
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