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Get something with bed tramming if you want to make prints. The small size you say is max gets a nice prusa. A creality * will work just fine out of the box, but it takes a special temperament to read dozens of tips to level the bed, get a new build surface because yours is warped, glue the surface, adjust knobs because the curvature of the earth is making your print first layer unlevel, etc I can shortcut and burn through all the crap advice out there, but it took many hours of tinkering to find out exactly what does what, and what affects what down stream. For more money, you can just spend that time printing
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Dec 17, 2021 14:25
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Well poo poo, Fusion 360 decided to start my other Cura instance, which was set to the ABS profile. Noticed only after the print finished that it printed it at ABS temperatures with PLA. Too be fair, all things considered it came out really well.
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Dec 17, 2021 15:25
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Some of the PLA+ formulations out there have to print hotter to get good layer adhesion, so approaching ABS temps may not have been too bad. Post a pic?
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Dec 17, 2021 15:31
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Guess what printer this was done on: https://twitter.com/Sacr3D_Printing/status/1471620980803977216?s=20
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Dec 17, 2021 15:43
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Roundboy posted:Get something with bed tramming if you want to make prints. The small size you say is max gets a nice prusa. I think "you" might be part of the problem. But the ecosystem is a problem too. You're going "the advice I got was poo poo" and are blaming.. 3d printing. The problem is real, but 3d printing isn't hard. The hard part is getting through the crap. Since you're here, be one of the people getting through the crap. It's not said often enough, that silks, and white, filament need to not be used for calibrating your machine, because they're the challenging filaments. Tramming your bed is ~easy~. And for most things "good enough, is good". But the advice on most of facebook, 3/4 of the websites, 90% of the top results, and heck, one or two posters here. Is just trash. I am mostly against printers that have auto bed leveling, at least in the under $500 range. There's a long list of reasons there, but there's easy/good/simple ways to make your existing bed work. ...................... Yes, I'm looking into ways to solve this situation. But I'm also fairly deep into the "it's not my job to unfuck an industry without getting paid for it." Best advice I can give: If anything seems like "well this bit of magic works for me every time" they do not understand what they're talking about. And move the F on. And things get worse, when you get five steps in, and realize 80% of this industry can't design parts ~to be printed~. And because a 3d printer will chug through anything, and unlike a machinist or mold maker, won't scream at your silly derriere for requesting a hard, difficult, failure prone, or impossible part to make, they just publish it anyway, and claim it's fine. https://imgur.com/gallery/SqIdFwB Here's what you need to know about bed leveling. This matters for prusas too. https://imgur.com/gallery/0j8FF4V In general, the most consistent source of good advice is the Voron community. (Read: I'm not often mad at them misleading people.) This includes designing parts to be printed, and dealing with printer problems. Well, as you can see I've been triggered. Rafts aren't a sin. If anything seems like a folk tale, magic, or "it just works" doubt it. Know why you're making changes and why they work. 10 year old advice, is 10 years old, and the industry has moved on. Thinking about that, I wonder if the reason why we have so much trouble with 3d printing, is it grew up, and matured, on the internet. So all of the old bad advice, is still there, and un-culled. Where with other technologies, the "bad ideas" all just.. never made it to the internet.
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Dec 17, 2021 15:46
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Nerobro posted:Here's what you need to know about bed leveling. This matters for prusas too. Except for the bit where what you linked here isn't "leveling", it's "setting your Z-offset" or "adjusting your Z-offset" depending on how you look at things that the manual says for a given. The current Prusa designs have zero leveling adjustment in them. No leveling screws. Just a rigid frame and a print bed that is supposed to be (and usually is) flat. Any currently-sold machine that claims to be a Prusa but has those bed leveling screws isn't a Prusa. Some Pinko Commie fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Dec 17, 2021 |
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Dec 17, 2021 16:29
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Or you can just let the magnetic sensor thing on the Prusa do all of that for you and not have to worry about it beyond getting the Live Z set. It doesn't care if the bed is a few tenths out from being plumb or planar.
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Dec 17, 2021 16:34
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biracial bear for uncut posted:Except for the bit where what you linked here isn't "leveling", it's "setting your Z-offset" or "adjusting your Z-offset" depending on how you look at things what the manual says. Your pedantry doesn't help. What might have helped, instead of being a dick, would be saying something like: On a prusa, this is in the Z offset menu. As opposed to going "you're wrong saying this matters on a prusa". withak posted:Or you can just let the magnetic sensor thing on the Prusa do all of that for you and not have to worry about it beyond getting the Live Z set. It doesn't care if the bed is a few tenths out from being plumb or planar. More than once I've helped someone with a prusa who'd gotten their Z offset so out of wack that knowing what to look for would have helped them get back to reality. Nerobro fucked around with this message at 16:37 on Dec 17, 2021 |
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Dec 17, 2021 16:35
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Nerobro posted:
I just finished assembling this guy: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4980205 And every step of the way, I was amazed at how perfectly it was designed for 3d printing. two arms pop into half a box, and two into the other half, and then they get smooshed together and plugged into another box, which holds the first two boxes, all of this to have movement and avoid supports on everything. nearly no supports needed anywhere that supports are needed end up being covered up by further panels and parts And then it's also a super cool mechanical moving fuckinnnnnnnnn This print rules, I don't even play Apex/Titanfall Marvel of 3d printing engineering quote:Thinking about that, I wonder if the reason why we have so much trouble with 3d printing, is it grew up, and matured, on the internet. So all of the old bad advice, is still there, and un-culled. Where with other technologies, the "bad ideas" all just.. never made it to the internet. There's so many times I'll look at something, it doesn't quite check out in my brain, and see that it's from 2014-2015. The industry/hobby/whatever has slowed down but the change from 2010-2017? renders pretty much anything from those years near-irrelevant to modern printers
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Dec 17, 2021 16:37
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Nerobro posted:Your pedantry doesn't help. What might have helped, instead of being a dick, would be saying something like: On a prusa, this is in the Z offset menu. As opposed to going "you're wrong saying this matters on a prusa". Pointing out that they are saying something wrong about one of the most well-known designs in the hobbyist market isn't being pedantic. Also gently caress any and all tone arguments. EDIT for your edit: Nerobro posted:More than once I've helped someone with a prusa who'd gotten their Z offset so out of wack that knowing what to look for would have helped them get back to reality. You say that like there are all that many ways to screw this up and/or fix it beyond "Factory reset > Calibration Wizard". Some Pinko Commie fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Dec 17, 2021 |
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Dec 17, 2021 16:39
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Nerobro posted:More than once I've helped someone with a prusa who'd gotten their Z offset so out of wack that knowing what to look for would have helped them get back to reality. Yeah you still have to set it right, but you don't have to worry about whether this corner is higher than that corner (within reason).
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Dec 17, 2021 16:39
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Are creality still tinning their wires and creating potential electrical/fire hazards down the road? Cause I have a hard time recommending an ender3 while that's happening, period. Regardless, if you get a cheap printer you need to spend some time making sure it's actually safe to use before you can reasonably get to the part where you make sure it's easy to use.
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Dec 17, 2021 16:43
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Dr. Despair posted:Are creality still tinning their wires and creating potential electrical/fire hazards down the road? Cause I have a hard time recommending an ender3 while that's happening, period. This. I'm still trying to figure out a way to ask the Anet printer haver that posted earlier what they had to do to make sure it was safe to use that particular machine without having it set itself on fire by now.
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Dec 17, 2021 16:46
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biracial bear for uncut posted:Can we not do the thing where people make recommendations for "you'll learn a lot" and "if you're a little handy" when someone specifically said they want a 3d printer to make things and not generally where the machine itself is the hobby? Super agree. 3D printing (at least non-resin printing) is basically 2 hobbies rolled into one -- the actual 3D printing part and then the tinkering with the machine part. I love 3D printing but the tinkering has turned me off from this kind of printing twice already, and now that my prusa isn't printing I'm tempted to just call it quits a third time. I derive no joy or satisfaction in trying to troubleshoot and solve 3D printing problems, it is just a source of frustration for me.
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Dec 17, 2021 16:46
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Tramming and Z offset is not the same thing, conflating the two is hardly productive. Mesh bed leveling the way Prusa has solved it is pretty neat and just works™ for most people, as long as your z offset isn't too far out of whack. Dr. Despair posted:Are creality still tinning their wires and creating potential electrical/fire hazards down the road? Cause I have a hard time recommending an ender3 while that's happening, period. And this is a huge part of why I tell people to get a Mini+ (beginner) or consider building a Voron (advanced) if they ask for printer advice 
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Dec 17, 2021 16:48
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I like to lol when someone posts asking for help with setting their z offset and someone else is like "try -0.300, switching to that usually solves problems for me".
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Dec 17, 2021 16:53
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withak posted:I like to lol when someone posts asking for help with setting their z offset and someone else is like "try -0.300, switching to that usually solves problems for me". RTFM ought to be the first response for questions like that, honestly. It's right there, literally has an entire section dedicated to it in the table of contents. And if the machine you bought didn't come with a manual that explains this, you hosed up. (and if your first 3d printer/first foray into CNC machine hobbyist stuff is something like this and you rolled your own build, leaving you asking a question like this, you hosed up).
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Dec 17, 2021 16:56
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Nerobro posted:I think "you" might be part of the problem. But the ecosystem is a problem too. You're going "the advice I got was poo poo" and are blaming.. 3d printing. The problem is real, but 3d printing isn't hard. The hard part is getting through the crap. Since you're here, be one of the people getting through the crap. I am definitely a problem, just not here. Its because I like to tinker. I like knowing how the sausage is made. The original poster that wanted to make things just wants to set things up and print. Not make a quiet printer, not add led lighting, not make it faster, etc. The creality ecosystem is fine out of the box... hopefully you built it correctly. Hopefully your bed isnt warped. Hopefully your heater wires don;t cease a fire, etc. I find that IN GENERAL, these printers require more work then others, but the price reflects that. I am not the typical user.
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Dec 17, 2021 17:07
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biracial bear for uncut posted:RTFM ought to be the first response for questions like that, honestly. TBF the way Prusa handles z calibration I think sucks a lot. I spent like 3 hours my first night with it and not really understanding what I was even looking for. How can I tell how squished this 0.2mm thick square is when I don't know what I'm looking for? And then I found an actual good calibration test that was just... well, a big square. And now I use that 5-step stair strip thing. But the Prusa manual and the provided calibration gcode, absolutely does not help at all
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Dec 17, 2021 17:25
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Also I have PIF voron parts incoming. I need to start buying WAY to much stuff in the next few weeks. I don;t care if it takes a while, but it needs to look pretty whilst it sits here
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Dec 17, 2021 17:39
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Yeah it isn't described great and the pictures aren't that helpful. I feel like most people end up too high because they are worried about gouging the nozzle into the sheet. The manual should really just say to move the nozzle down until the single bead is visibly squashed (if you aren't sure whether it is squashed then it isn't), and look for the final square to peel off as a solid sheet without being able to separate the threads. Maybe something about the top surface of the square not having visible ruts from the nozzle. The pictures of the good and bad squares that they include seemed pretty useless to me the first time I did it. For any more precision than this you probably need to use one of the micrometer-based methods.
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Dec 17, 2021 17:39
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biracial bear for uncut posted:This. I'm assuming you're talking about me here, as my machine is based on the ET4 (not the A8 which is the one that has the burny reputation). "Based on" is important here because it has two major features that differ from the original - one is that the PSU is independently fused (5A, which feels high to me but I've no idea what the current draw of the motors is, so 3A might have been pushing it) and the other is that the firmware has thermal runaway protection built in - if it detects no change in temperature after 15 seconds it just cuts off the juice, and keeps it off until reboot. Unfortunately it does have a bit of a design issue that was how I discovered the latter - there's no stress relief on the cabling for the heated bed other than a simple clamp, so it eventually fatigued the solder joint away. As it dutifully switched off power to the bed when it happened I only realised when a print decided to catapult itself across the room, but that's probably better than the alternative. Resoldering it, and doing a little bit of metal-bashing with an old mild steel bracket I had lying around to create a new clamp, suitably protected with copious heatshrink to stop it wearing at the nicely thick insulation, has rectified that particular issue (along with moving the machine further from the wall so it's not pressing against it at it's furthest extent) but I'd still be happier if they could come up with a better solution. All in all I'm as happy with it, fire risk wise, as the literally dozens of other random bits of Chinese electronics I trust not to burn my house down every day of my life. I definitely want to upgrade it to something a bit more mechanically solid so I can experiment more with higher speeds, and a larger build plate would be nice, but I can safely say that almost all of the problems I've had with it have been very much self-inflicted. goddamnedtwisto fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Dec 17, 2021 |
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Dec 17, 2021 17:42
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Roundboy posted:I am definitely a problem, just not here. My biggest problem here, is that for large swaths of the hobby, most of what you find, the explanation of the sausage is outright lies. (And they don't know it.. but.. lies nonetheless) Sockser posted:And every step of the way, I was amazed at how perfectly it was designed for 3d printing. The fact that "wow, they thought about how to print this thing" is.. a thing that made you happy and excited is a very clear statement as to how f'ed up this all is. I love models that are "correct" Yeah, we know better. We have better materials. And better machines. And... *sighs*
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Dec 17, 2021 18:10
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big scary monsters posted:I don't mind messing with firmware and hardware a bit if necessary, but it's nice if I don't have to spend too much time on it. biracial bear for uncut posted:Can we not do the thing where people make recommendations for "you'll learn a lot" and "if you're a little handy" when someone specifically said they want a 3d printer to make things and not generally where the machine itself is the hobby? The Prusa Mini is more than his budget and he stated that he's not afraid of messing with hard/firmware. The Ender3 V2 is far better value for money and if you're just a little handy, you can turn it into a printer that's even better than the Prusa, for less than the cost of a Prusa.
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Dec 17, 2021 18:26
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maybe though? I never could get my E3v2 to print worth a poo poo, ever
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Dec 17, 2021 18:38
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Just a few days of tinkering and a few hundo in upgrades, easy-peasy.
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Dec 17, 2021 18:42
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Thanks for the opinions and discussion, everyone. I don't know that I've come to a definitive answer but I feel like I maybe have a bit more of an idea why one or the other printer is preferred. As I said, I mainly want the printer to build bits for robots, and if you've ever messed with that you will be well used to hacking firmware and repeatedly making small, tedious hardware adjustments. So I'm not afraid of doing that, especially if it's only some up front work to get things running and then not much ongoing stuff. I'd just prefer in general to spend that tinkering time on the robotics rather than the printer. Also I see that people talk about the Ender 3 and the CR-6 more or less interchangeably, and I understand that the latter is an "upgrade" of the former. I had the impression that the upgrades were fairly significant in terms of making the thing more straightforward to use? An Ender 3 V2 is a good 2000 NOK cheaper than the CR-6 here, but I was put off by the idea that you'd essentially want to DIY upgrade it to more or less what the CR-6 has out of the box anyway.
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Dec 17, 2021 18:56
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withak posted:Just a few days of tinkering and a few hundo in upgrades, easy-peasy. Assuming $200 for a new printer. $65 for a good controller board. $20 for a roll of PETG to print a good duct, ABL mount, filamnet guide, filament feed knob, filament sensor. $20 for ABL of some sort. $30 for a PEI coated steel bed. $5 for a microswitch for a filament sensor. $5 for an accelerometer. $20 for spare fittings and an aluminum extruder top. About a days worth of printing, and.. $370 you could have a printer that does more than a prusa does. The only thing that I wouldn't be able to print... would be high temp nylons, less than 85 shore TPU, and polycarbonate. If I want to do that.. add $40. This would net:
Install the board, springs, extruder top as you build it the first time. Print the accessories. Next day finish the build. ............... Lot of steps. But still easier than a voron. And half the price of a V0. And you'd be what, $400 ahead of a Prusa Mk3s? With a bigger printer.
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Dec 17, 2021 19:01
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Nerobro posted:Assuming $200 for a new printer. $65 for a good controller board. $20 for a roll of PETG to print a good duct, ABL mount, filamnet guide, filament feed knob, filament sensor. $20 for ABL of some sort. $30 for a PEI coated steel bed. $5 for a microswitch for a filament sensor. $5 for an accelerometer. $20 for spare fittings and an aluminum extruder top. How much value do you put on your time/labor and how long would it take to print those parts? big scary monsters posted:Also I see that people talk about the Ender 3 and the CR-6 more or less interchangeably, and I understand that the latter is an "upgrade" of the former. I had the impression that the upgrades were fairly significant in terms of making the thing more straightforward to use? An Ender 3 V2 is a good 2000 NOK cheaper than the CR-6 here, but I was put off by the idea that you'd essentially want to DIY upgrade it to more or less what the CR-6 has out of the box anyway. Anybody that does this does not really know what they are talking about. The CR-6 is not an "upgrade" of the Ender 3 V2. It's just a larger model that they have continued development on while the Ender3 V2 stopped developing a little over a year ago. You will still have to modify the CR-6 (as well as invest some time going over it with a fine-tooth comb to make sure everything is assembled correctly with the wheels on the bed axis to make sure it runs flat and without vibrations/shifting; assuming they haven't updated it to use linear rails since the last time I looked at one). Some Pinko Commie fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Dec 17, 2021 |
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Dec 17, 2021 19:06
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Anyone had a hands on with the Ender 3 S1 yet? It looks like it has a lot of the upgrades commonly done to and Ender 3 for under $400, but knowing creality you'll need to replace half of it anyway.
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Dec 17, 2021 19:17
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Bondematt posted:Anyone had a hands on with the Ender 3 S1 yet? I doubt anybody ITT has bought one yet. https://www.ebay.com/itm/363643526661 There is a link to one, looks interesting but I don't have the money (it's a poor Christmas this year).
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Dec 17, 2021 19:32
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biracial bear for uncut posted:How much value do you put on your time/labor and how long would it take to print those parts? Good to know, thanks. I looked into it a bit and I can actually get a Prusa Mini+ kit direct from the Czech Republic within budget even after import fees, I just have to wait until February for it to ship. Much as I'd like to jump in straight away I know I'll be super busy with other things in January, so maybe that's not the worst option.
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Dec 17, 2021 19:36
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biracial bear for uncut posted:How much value do you put on your time/labor and how long would it take to print those parts? Because, as this thread has repeatedly proven, people only print meaningful things and Prusas never break.
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Dec 17, 2021 19:39
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ImplicitAssembler posted:Because, as this thread has repeatedly proven, people only print meaningful things and Prusas never break. Please, point out where I ever said "Prusas never break" or whatever dumb poo poo you're going on about with the "people only print meaningful things" nonsense. Just because someone says they don't mind mucking with hardware and firmware doesn't mean they prefer to do so when a more convenient option is available and the cost difference in time/labor/additional materials is small enough to be worth it. Also once again: biracial bear for uncut posted:Can we not do the thing where people make recommendations for "you'll learn a lot" and "if you're a little handy" when someone specifically said they want a 3d printer to make things and not generally where the machine itself is the hobby? big scary monsters posted:Good to know, thanks. I looked into it a bit and I can actually get a Prusa Mini+ kit direct from the Czech Republic within budget even after import fees, I just have to wait until February for it to ship. Much as I'd like to jump in straight away I know I'll be super busy with other things in January, so maybe that's not the worst option. If there are any Monoprice warehouses near you (or if they have a localized website for wherever you live), you can look up their MP10 (their version of the CR-10) and MP10 Mini (their version of the Ender3 V2) 3d printers and give one of those a shot and return it within their really nice 30-day return window (as long as you don't gently caress around with replacing components of the printer). Back in the halcyon 3d printing hobby days of circa 2016-about 2019 or so that used to be my go-to recommendation for people here in the US looking to try 3d printing out but not wanting to risk losing a couple hundred bucks on something and then finding out they hate it. Buying a 3d printer from Monoprice I mean. I still haven't seen a vendor with a better return policy. Just keep the box and if you have a problem with it just initiate an RMA and return it and get your money back. Do that as often as you like until you find a better deal on a better machine. Here is the MP10 Mini for reference: https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=34438 $240 list, get another %15 off using code 3DP34438 during checkout if you order before Christmas (brings it within just a few bucks of $200). Not sure what shipping is where you are but if someone is in the US it's free ground shipping. Some Pinko Commie fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Dec 17, 2021 |
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Dec 17, 2021 20:53
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So my printer arrived blisteringly fast but the wash+cure station is still a ways away. Its far too cold to use the sun to cure any prints, but I do have a grow lamp for plants. It emits 448nm blue and 630nm red, both are outside of the ranges recommended for curing resin. I was wondering, could I still use it and just expect very slow cure times? I'm fine with it taking hours, or even overnight if needed, I'm just wanting to know if it'll even work or if the resin won't cure correctly.
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Dec 17, 2021 21:56
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Put a drop or two of the resin on a piece of cardboard or something and see if the light will cure it. It should happen pretty fast if it's going to happen at all. A lot of those lights still put out a much broader spectrum than advertised, and although the intensity at the wavelength you want might not really be there, you may be able to at least use it for curing some test prints. Or not. But it certainly won't hurt to do a quick test. vv also that. Acid Reflux fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Dec 17, 2021 |
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Dec 17, 2021 22:08
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Fashionable Jorts posted:So my printer arrived blisteringly fast but the wash+cure station is still a ways away. Its far too cold to use the sun to cure any prints, but I do have a grow lamp for plants. It emits 448nm blue and 630nm red, both are outside of the ranges recommended for curing resin. Don't bother with the alternate lamps, just print away. No need to cure the models right away unless you're dying to paint them anyway. You can always save them up and cure them once the wash & cure arrives.
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Dec 17, 2021 22:08
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Acid Reflux posted:Put a drop or two of the resin on a piece of cardboard or something and see if the light will cure it. It should happen pretty fast if it's going to happen at all. A lot of those lights still put out a much broader spectrum than advertised, and although the intensity at the wavelength you want might not really be there, you may be able to at least use it for curing some test prints. Or not. But it certainly won't hurt to do a quick test. I didn't think of doing a test run first lol. The resin gets here tomorrow (hopefully) so I'll try a smidge to see the results. InternetJunky posted:Don't bother with the alternate lamps, just print away. No need to cure the models right away unless you're dying to paint them anyway. You can always save them up and cure them once the wash & cure arrives. That also makes sense. I've never printed anything myself and I have this weird idea in my head that it'll come out of the printer as this malleable mess that can be damaged by looking at it wrong, which I know is untrue. Thanks for the replies!
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Dec 17, 2021 22:21
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ImplicitAssembler posted:Because, as this thread has repeatedly proven, people only print meaningful things and Prusas never break. As someone who runs a fab at a hackerspace, I almost spat out my coffee laughing as I read this. Both parts.
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Dec 17, 2021 22:36
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biracial bear for uncut posted:If there are any Monoprice warehouses near you (or if they have a localized website for wherever you live), you can look up their MP10 (their version of the CR-10) and MP10 Mini (their version of the Ender3 V2) 3d printers and give one of those a shot and return it within their really nice 30-day return window (as long as you don't gently caress around with replacing components of the printer). This is a pretty drat compelling price point, and it can even print bigger than the Prusa Mini. Is there going to be perceptible difference between the print quality of a Prusa Mini vs. an MP10 Mini?
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Dec 17, 2021 22:45
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