|
That said, "They're both big, and they both brood" was still the line of the episode.
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2021 20:18
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 00:31 |
|
|
Rarity posted:Then what the hell do you do with Mat between leaving Ebou Dar and the Last Battle? You still have the whole of Mat's Knife of Dreams arc that concludes with him covering Tuon's escape with the Band and some of the Deathwatch Guard. After that, you can have him gathering more and more armies around him and fighting Trollocs as Tarmon Gaiden approaches, and especially you can have him be more successful than all the other Great Captains because the foxhead amulet is protecting him from the dream meddling that's screwing up the other Captains' plans. That way when we get to the Last Battle proper, it makes perfect sense to put Mat in charge, since he's the only one who's been winning the whole time.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2021 20:41
|
|
|
Yeah giving Mat stuff to do that isn't in loving Ebou Dar wouldn't be hard. Talmanes has that whole little side adventure in Murandy that would be way more interesting than just about anything else he gets up to between books 5 and 11, plus more time with best bro Talmanes
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2021 20:49
|
|
|
You absolutely need to have him having adventures with Tuon though, or there's no real reason for her to trust her armies to anyone but a Seanchan.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2021 20:52
|
|
|
Smoke Balefire every day
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2021 20:55
|
|
|
Tuon pretending to be a servant only to later reveal she's the Empress of the Seanchan is a great plotline and I'll riot if that's taken out.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2021 20:57
|
|
|
Comrade Blyatlov posted:You absolutely need to have him having adventures with Tuon though, or there's no real reason for her to trust her armies to anyone but a Seanchan. Yeah, Mat absolutely has to be married to Tuon by that point because he has to be Prince of the Ravens for the Seanchan armies to obey.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2021 20:58
|
|
|
Good antagonists/villains are necessary to help drive the story. Tuon is a great antagonist for Mat and their banter/developing understanding of each other is a good thing. Seanchan needs to be awful as a contrast to the core casts values. I'm really excited to see the black square sails off the coast at the end of this season having dropped that hint a few times.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2021 21:00
|
|
|
Mat's whole story is really loving good and the best part of the books so leaving any of it out would really suck.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2021 21:08
|
|
|
Hollismason posted:Mat's whole story is really loving good and the best part of the books so leaving any of it out would really suck. The books left out his story for the 2nd & 3rd book though. I'm just saying!
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2021 21:13
|
|
|
Khizan posted:Yeah, Mat absolutely has to be married to Tuon by that point because he has to be Prince of the Ravens for the Seanchan armies to obey. Plus otherwise you miss out on the scene where she realises a man she'd seen as a joke is actually terrifying as gently caress in his own regard
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2021 21:14
|
|
|
thinking more re: horses in the ways, i guess they'd just hear distorted neighing no Cad Sauce, no "thousands of years my junior" line. which is one of my quiet favorites ahh i mixed it up a little "We're going into Far Madding, boy,” Cadsuane said. “Surely you haven’t forgotten that we are prevented from touching the Source while there.” Rand smiled. “And you’re wearing a full paralis-net in your hair, which includes a Well. I’m certain you keep it full, and that should be enough to create a single gateway.” Cadsuane’s face grew expressionless. “I’ve never heard of a paralis-net.” “Cadsuane Sedai,” Rand said softly. “Your net has a few ornaments I don’t recognize-I suspect it is a Breaking-era creation. But I was there when the first ones were designed, and I wore the original male version.” The room fell still. “Well, boy,” Cadsuane finally said. “You-“ “Are you ever going to give up that affectation, Cadsuane Sedai?” Rand asked. “Calling me boy? I no longer mind, though it does feel odd. I was four hundred years old on the say I died during the Age of Legends. I suspect that would make you my junior by several decades at the least. I show you respect. Perhaps it would be appropriate for you to return it. If you wish, you may call me Rand Sedai. I am, as far as I know, the only male Aes Sedai still alive who was properly raised but who never turned to the Shadow." doesn't rand call himself thousands of years old at some point? Brolander fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Dec 19, 2021 |
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2021 21:14
|
|
|
It kind of feels like we've drifted a little here. The original proposal was to replace Cadsuane with Moiraine, and have Moiraine be rescued earlier so you can keep Rosamund Pike on screen longer and still give her things to do. The question was then asked: "What do you do with Mat after Ebou Dar if he isn't rescuing Moiraine in Towers of Midnight?" To which I replied: jng2058 posted:You still have the whole of Mat's Knife of Dreams arc that concludes with him covering Tuon's escape with the Band and some of the Deathwatch Guard. After that, you can have him gathering more and more armies around him and fighting Trollocs as Tarmon Gaiden approaches, and especially you can have him be more successful than all the other Great Captains because the foxhead amulet is protecting him from the dream meddling that's screwing up the other Captains' plans. That way when we get to the Last Battle proper, it makes perfect sense to put Mat in charge, since he's the only one who's been winning the whole time. Outside of moving the Tower of Ghenjei events earlier, no one has suggested skipping Mat meeting Tuon in Ebou Dar and their subsequent adventures afterwards. I'm just proposing that instead of the Tower stuff (which will have already happened in this version) you can give Mat a more military focused arc where he proves his worth by being successful where the other Great Captains fail, giving him the credibility to become Supreme Warlord for the Last Battle.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2021 21:26
|
|
|
Thats generally how Internet threads go, yeah
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2021 21:30
|
|
|
Hollismason posted:Mat's whole story is really loving good and the best part of the books so leaving any of it out would really suck. His whole story can stay. Just move it around and expand it. Tower rescue scene earlier, maybe before his Seanchan arc. Idk there are thousands of ways to rearrange the story
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2021 21:44
|
|
|
I love the wheel of time holy poo poo. Just finished tdr reread. Moiraine punking be'lel is a top 5 moment in the book easily.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2021 21:48
|
|
|
Be'lal more like Be'lol
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2021 21:59
|
|
|
RC Cola posted:His whole story can stay. Just move it around and expand it. Tower rescue scene earlier, maybe before his Seanchan arc. Idk there are thousands of ways to rearrange the story Moving his story up and finishing the whole dagger storyline early would work really well.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2021 22:01
|
|
|
Hexel posted:Be'lal more like Be'lol
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2021 22:02
|
|
|
RC Cola posted:I love the wheel of time holy poo poo. Just finished tdr reread. Moiraine punking be'lel is a top 5 moment in the book easily. The series certainly drags in parts but it has the highest highs of any fantasy I have read.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2021 22:16
|
|
|
I think one of the frustrating things with this whole "we're totally going to confront the Dark One and everyone not the Dragon is going to die" thing that Moraine and Siuan have cooked up is that, even if you want to play the prophecies are unclear line, a fair few of them really aren't. And we know the Karatheon Cycle exists and is reasonably preserved, because Rand finds a good condition book on them in a random bookshop with Loial calling them out by name. None of this means Moraine instead needs to be infallible with her predictions, because her and the Aes Sedai in general did misinterpret a huge number of the prophecies (and prophecies in general when adding in Elaida). But instead they've brought them up, discussed a few details of them, shown they exist in reasonably preserved form... and then gone "well, they can be unclear" even when parts that absolutely still exist demonstrably aren't. The ones that really stick out to me are the Dragon Reborn needing to pick up Callandor (extremely blatant) and "Twice and twice shall he (they) be marked." I'm really not sure how you even get around the Callandor one, because going to pick it up and proving he really was the Dragon Reborn, both to others AND himself, was Rand's entire reason to travel to Tear. And the marking one could be viewed as metaphorical rather than literal, but even counting the entire group rather than just one person you've got precisely ONE mark in him having a heron marked sword. Technically the Dragonmount one is pretty clear, but if you're changing the gendered wording to "they," then I guess it's theoretically possible to view that one as metaphorical along with opening the possibility of multiple dragons. Like, it feels like a script decision made in order to potentially call it after a single season if necessary, but that has the issue that Season 2 apparently got confirmed a long time ago.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2021 22:31
|
|
|
I was always pissed at the sheer lack of Be'lal. They build him up as this crazy intelligent dueling master who is pulling all the strings and then BAM. It was a solid way to show the craziness of Banefire but I feel like he could've just been another random Channeler/Politician.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2021 22:33
|
|
|
TGG posted:I was always pissed at the sheer lack of Be'lal. They build him up as this crazy intelligent dueling master who is pulling all the strings and then BAM. It was a solid way to show the craziness of Banefire but I feel like he could've just been another random Channeler/Politician. Nah it actually owns because its more or less the same play Rand makes later in the series
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2021 22:50
|
|
|
TGG posted:I was always pissed at the sheer lack of Be'lal. They build him up as this crazy intelligent dueling master who is pulling all the strings and then BAM. It was a solid way to show the craziness of Banefire but I feel like he could've just been another random Channeler/Politician. It was a way to show how incredibly overconfident the forsaken are, it's incredible.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2021 22:58
|
|
|
I think part of the point of the Seanchan not having a tidy conclusion is the fact that there are no endings in the Wheel of Time. There will always be lovely situations and villains and reasons for people to fight each other in the Wheel of Time.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2021 22:59
|
|
|
silvergoose posted:It was a way to show how incredibly overconfident the forsaken are, it's incredible. This is spelled out explicitly books later, I think graendal grumbling to sammael about how the chosen dwindle, these ignorant savages etc etc
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2021 23:01
|
|
|
To be fair, the third age spend like 99% in a free fall skill and information wise, and it was only in the last like 2 years of the age that they made any significant uses of the power.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2021 23:06
|
|
|
I’m up to TPoD in my reread and it’s amusing to think about what can be cut and consolidated. I was just thinking about what a cool bit the Black Ajah in the tower hunt is, especially when the White and Red are confronted in the basement and it turns out that one of the confronters is herself Black and gets busted. I’d hate to see it go entirely, but it’s this whole spin-off story centered around characters we had never seen before and I don’t think see again. There are a million bits like this that are going to drive the purists into a frenzy when they are cut or changed.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2021 23:06
|
|
|
joke's on you, that's what the entire fifth season will focus on
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2021 23:10
|
|
|
TGG posted:I was always pissed at the sheer lack of Be'lal. They build him up as this crazy intelligent dueling master who is pulling all the strings and then BAM. It was a solid way to show the craziness of Banefire but I feel like he could've just been another random Channeler/Politician. The other reason it owns is that it would have worked against LTT. But as I've mentioned before, the Forsaken cannot even comprehend someone being willing to die for someone else.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2021 23:13
|
|
|
navyjack posted:I’m up to TPoD in my reread and it’s amusing to think about what can be cut and consolidated. I was just thinking about what a cool bit the Black Ajah in the tower hunt is, especially when the White and Red are confronted in the basement and it turns out that one of the confronters is herself Black and gets busted. I’d hate to see it go entirely, but it’s this whole spin-off story centered around characters we had never seen before and I don’t think see again. There are a million bits like this that are going to drive the purists into a frenzy when they are cut or changed. For the series to provide the authentic WoT experience, seasons 3-6 will need to consistent entirely of sideplots that don't advance the main plot in anyway.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2021 23:22
|
|
|
Hollismason posted:Smoke Balefire every day
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2021 23:32
|
|
|
Lord Koth posted:I think one of the frustrating things with this whole "we're totally going to confront the Dark One and everyone not the Dragon is going to die" thing that Moraine and Siuan have cooked up is that, even if you want to play the prophecies are unclear line, a fair few of them really aren't. And we know the Karatheon Cycle exists and is reasonably preserved, because Rand finds a good condition book on them in a random bookshop with Loial calling them out by name. None of this means Moraine instead needs to be infallible with her predictions, because her and the Aes Sedai in general did misinterpret a huge number of the prophecies (and prophecies in general when adding in Elaida). But instead they've brought them up, discussed a few details of them, shown they exist in reasonably preserved form... and then gone "well, they can be unclear" even when parts that absolutely still exist demonstrably aren't. The show prophecies are probably not going to be the same. And just because they're written down doesn't mean that translations errors can not occur.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2021 23:39
|
|
|
drat it you guys are right, it's at least a neat thing and it does end with the Ishamael fight which I love but I just like seeing competent Forsaken. I kinda feel like Sanderson nailed what I was looking for from the Forsaken with his Demandred ending, Demandred was brute powerful had a long term plan and was taken apart by underestimating the current age. I'd have loved more if like Juliin or any Aiel took on Be'lal or something. This dude from a previous age rolls up, confident he is the greatest duelist in history and refuses to use the power and just gets crushed for a bit until he uses the power and THEN Moiraine hit him.
TGG fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Dec 19, 2021 |
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2021 23:44
|
|
|
Johnny Joestar posted:joke's on you, that's what the entire fifth season will focus on The season of death.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2021 23:44
|
|
|
Comrade Blyatlov posted:Plus otherwise you miss out on the scene where she realises a man she'd seen as a joke is actually terrifying as gently caress in his own regard "A lion stuffed into a horse stall might look like a peculiar joke, but a lion on the high plains was something very different." I can't believe how many little details have stuck with me from this series.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2021 00:14
|
|
|
the lack of that followup series with mat and tuon is sorely missed if only because i enjoyed their dynamic and it was very much set up to be kind of some sort of 'the two try to unfuck seanchan culture' adventure given that tuon knew certain fundamental things contrary to it at that point. like yeah she was still royalty of an empire and probably had been involved in multiple cruel things by that point but it's a fantasy series what are you gonna do, that's practically average come onnnnnnnnn
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2021 00:23
|
|
|
Johnny Joestar posted:the lack of that followup series with mat and tuon is sorely missed if only because i enjoyed their dynamic and it was very much set up to be kind of some sort of 'the two try to unfuck seanchan culture' adventure given that tuon knew certain fundamental things contrary to it at that point. If I remember correctly, isn't it only the Seanchan on the eastern continent who remain loyal to her, and that on their home continent they continue to refuse to recognize her? Plenty of opportunities there for storylines to be told.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2021 00:27
|
|
|
Nitrousoxide posted:If I remember correctly, isn't it only the Seanchan on the eastern continent who remain loyal to her, and that on their home continent they continue to refuse to recognize her? The ones at home are in chaos because Semirhage slaughtered everyone in charge, so I think it was left as just "shits hosed up"
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2021 00:38
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 00:31 |
|
|
navyjack posted:I’m up to TPoD in my reread and it’s amusing to think about what can be cut and consolidated. I was just thinking about what a cool bit the Black Ajah in the tower hunt is, especially when the White and Red are confronted in the basement and it turns out that one of the confronters is herself Black and gets busted. I’d hate to see it go entirely, but it’s this whole spin-off story centered around characters we had never seen before and I don’t think see again. There are a million bits like this that are going to drive the purists into a frenzy when they are cut or changed. I like a lot of that plotline....Elaida's attempt to undermine Alviarin actually doing some good when she's too oblique and Seaine gets the wrong idea and goes hunting the Black Ajah instead is pretty cool. And their initial success in outing Talene and starting to slowly unravel the Black Ajah network is nicely done. And hell, their "borrowing" of the Oath Rod prevents Verin from trying to use it to remove the Black Oaths and leads to her death. And yet, I don't like how that plotline just fizzles out without them really accomplishing all that much. In the end, everything they do gets totally eclipsed by Verin's Big Book of the Black Ajah, so the whole thing seems like a waste. For the show I'd either make them more important and successful or at least impactful somehow....or cut 'em entirely. Because as it is in the books they just don't make enough of a difference to be worth keeping in as is.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2021 00:42
|
|