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navyjack posted:Im gonna be contrary here and say, “gently caress him. Cut the character.” He’s a great ready-at-hand expository dialog dispenser when needed. The Ogier can know exactly as much or as little of the background as demanded by the plot.
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Dec 24, 2021 13:46
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Rarity posted:How does that have any impact on Rand's character? In the book it is important because it leads to this exchange: The Great Hunt posted:Rand felt a calmness beyond that of the void. “I will never serve you, Father of Lies. In a thousand lives, I never have. I know that. I’m sure of it. Come. It is time to die.” But show Rand is also more accepting of his fate and already rejected the temptation of serving the Dark so it's not as necessary for his characterization even if it is a dope rear end scene.
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Dec 24, 2021 14:01
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Ok, quote this post by midnight Christmas EST if you want this gangtag added to your profile: I'm in!
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Dec 24, 2021 14:33
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So doing a rewatch and other things I really like: The Seven Towers of Malkier, Lan said the line to Nynaeve  , she also realizes she needs training and is thinking about going to the tower.Ishi mentions the 99 companions. Fares Fares as Ishi is really good. For the light! And Shienar! First mention of Shienar I believe. Lots of book poo poo in here. Hexel fucked around with this message at 15:17 on Dec 24, 2021 |
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Dec 24, 2021 15:02
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Rarity posted:How does that have any impact on Rand's character? It's pretty important in shaping his perspective throughout the series as far as the internal conflicts of feeling trapped by his fate versus trying to find ways to shift it (i.e. creating new good things like the science academy rather than just destroying everything). Also the final showdown with the Dark One is literally involves a tour of alternate worlds to demonstrate the stakes of the eternal struggle with the Shadow. I agree it's probably not going to make it into the show but the scene does have a lot of significance to the story.
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Dec 24, 2021 15:09
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Turin Turambar posted:What do we think of the Seanchan designs? ACK ACK ACK ACK ACK Mat Cauthon posted:It's pretty important in shaping his perspective throughout the series as far as the internal conflicts of feeling trapped by his fate versus trying to find ways to shift it (i.e. creating new good things like the science academy rather than just destroying everything). Yeah while the portal stones only get used once, the alternate/past lives get used multiple times:
There's probably more as well, plus stuff with Tel'aran'rhiod
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Dec 24, 2021 15:23
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I also just noticed ishi taught Rand the Oneness. Void with no flame. Hopefully the flame and the void gets developed later. Presumably he already knows of it from Tam.
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Dec 24, 2021 15:31
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bio347 posted:I suppose the books don't ever really treat it, since the first Tower dropouts we actually see are the Kin. Maybe I'm just another of those who are remembering incorrectly, but my brain tells me that the Tower was pretty serious about the suppression of these non-Aes Sedai channelers. If anything the books show that the Aes Sedai are absolutely terrible at finding all of the female channelers. New Yorp New Yorp posted:Because they have literally 10,000 pages of already written content to draw from. The first book is not particularly expansive or far-ranging; it could have been adapted pretty much as written and been fine. And in those 10,000 other pages, there are no other changes needed to adapt to a tv show screen? You do not know what is coming next because those pages also need to be adapted. I liked the finale. It felt like if book 8 Jordan had re-written EotW ending. It was a lot more interpersonal between people, instead of everyone shows up to the Eye and then everyone scatters and it's Rand Alone.
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Dec 24, 2021 15:38
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Finally got to Four Kings in my first reread of EOTW, really loved the suspense of it all. I remembered the shady innkeeper, but I completely forgot about Howal Gode who I thought was just a really fun character the way he was described / his mannerisms. Too bad that's like his only appearance.
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Dec 24, 2021 15:40
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MegaZeroX posted:So now that the seasons over I'm curious what people's final episode rankings are. 6 > 4 > 3 > 2 > 1 = 5 > 7 = 8 6: Excellent blowout episode, one great scene after another, gorgeous sets, Rosamund Pike and Sophie Okonedo acting their loving hearts out and as strong a introduction to Siuan Sanche as anyone could ask for. Let down only by some choppy editing and that final scene. B+ or even A- 4: Some great character stuff here and a really great final sequence. Overstuffed and scattered, but better on that front than most of the rest of the season and the substance of the scenes is generally strong enough to compensate for the structural problems. B+ 3: The only episode so far that felt like it was properly paced and every plotline felt like it had room to breathe. In a series that wasn't a creaky garbled mess half the time that would hardly be worth mentioning, but here it's enough to put it in the top three. B 2: A completely unremarkable episode, containing more or less nothing worth talking about. The Manetheren story and Shadar Logoth could be something but ultimately the show doesn't seem interested in doing anything with them, and at this point I barely remember they were there. B- 1: I've come around on this one, slightly. It's still nowhere near as strong or robust an introduction as these characters need, and the season as a whole suffers badly for it, and the ending is just bizarre, but there's a lot of little touches to love here. The staging and the effects work in the fight sequence are particularly strong, especially in contrast to Tarwin's Gap. B- or C+ 5: This was the first episode where I began to feel that the changes they'd made in adapting the material was actively harmful to the story. The all-new stuff with Stepin and the Tower is all very good and emotionally compelling, but the scenes that are more directly lifted from the book are a lot worse. Loial's introduction is rushed and the entire Whitecloak plot looks worse every time I think back on it. C+ 7: Eeesh. Okay. Good: Shaiel in the Blood Snow, Min, the Nyn/Lan scenes I guess? Not so good: the Ways are here, but the show just doesn't have the time to live in them. They feel small, they feel perfunctory, and I really did not like the way Machin Shin just showed up to scream everyone's character beat for the episode at them. Ugly, cheap, blunt force storytelling. I know some genius brain-thinker is going to leap on this and declare that of course it has to be like this because TV watchers are stupid. And, sure, I guess? But also I don't care? I don't care what it takes to keep a guy who is watching the show on his phone, from the other room, while doing the dishes, and afflicted with amnesia, illiteracy and face-blindness engaged. I'm not a TV show executive, it is not my job to care about whether the show is retaining viewers. All I care about is whether it worked for me narratively, and this made me roll my eyes. Well, okay. The emotional blow up scene, I guess I'm not opposed to it in the abstract? As a plot beat? What I don't like so much is that it makes Perrin look like a shitheel husband, but maybe they're going somewhere with that? We'll give them the benefit of the doubt for now. What really has me down though is that the material felt weak and the actors failed to elevate it. The dialogue writing has been clunky all over the season, but this was the first time I really felt the gap between Pike and the rest of the cast. I'll put that down to having to rush a rewrite after Barney Harris' exit, I guess. C 8: It did have a lot of bits I liked. I liked the circle, or at least the visuals of the scene, with the trollocs getting blasted and everyone burning out. Seanchan intro too, very striking visual. AoL city shot, striking. The horn box is a nice prop. Actually, production design has been a strength of the show throughout, and every time I see someone call the show cheap I get little question marks shooting out the top of my head. Okay, not the CG trollocs or the people walking away from Fal Dara, those were bad. But anyway. I guess I liked the confrontation with Ishamael- I was a little iffy on it at first until I realised what he was up to. I did like the way he clowned on Moiraine and called her out for being an idiot, because, in an episode full of people doing stupid things for no good reason, Moiraine's "let's go to the Eye and [UNSPECIFIED]" plan is the pièce de résistance. Yes, Moiraine, what did you think was going to happen? Ishy's raw contempt for how easily he's tricked the both of them is great. The lack of Rand blasting trollocs or w/e with a weird saidin pool that makes no sense and never comes up again is not a problem for me. That is easily the least essential part of one of the least essential climaxes in the books. So I guess on the whole I liked much of the content of the episode. But I never felt like it came together for me as a whole, because I kept getting thrown out by these little "wait what" moments. Like:
Most of this is stuff I would happily have sailed over if the episode had managed to hook me, but continuously tripping over these things prevented me from getting into it the way I wanted to. I might feel different on a second watch but for now this one's getting a C. Overall I'm left ambivalent on the season and the show as a whole. I'm certainly less hype for season 2 than I was going into season 1, I can tell you that much. KOGAHAZAN!! fucked around with this message at 15:49 on Dec 24, 2021 |
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Dec 24, 2021 15:44
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Ok, quote this post by midnight Christmas EST if you want this gangtag added to your profile: Would like to get in on this as well please
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Dec 24, 2021 15:47
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DarkHorse posted:ACK ACK ACK ACK ACK The Portal Stone scene is also important to the characters that traveled with him and experienced their alternate lives as well. Ingtar being the most obvious as he realizes that he'll never be able to free himself from service to the Dark One, but Masema, Uno, etc all are greatly affected by it, and Perrin, Mat AND Verin as well. In The Dragon Reborn Perin specifically thinks about how seeing all of those alternate lives made him realize that his fate is bound to Rand's completely. It's probably the most important part of the book, and the defining scene IMO, even above the finale at Falme
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Dec 24, 2021 15:50
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At the end when Padan Fain bounces, Loial is definitely still squirming. I'm guessing they will need to pursue him to Toman Head to get the dagger back and cure Loial.
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Dec 24, 2021 15:52
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DarkHorse posted:Yeah while the portal stones only get used once, Twice. Once to travel when they find “Seline” in the mirror world, and a second time for FLICKER FLICKER FLICKER
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Dec 24, 2021 16:04
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Rand also uses one in TSR to transport himself and his entourage into the Waste.
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Dec 24, 2021 16:06
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Nitrousoxide posted:Twice. Once to travel when they find “Seline” in the mirror world, and a second time for FLICKER FLICKER FLICKER He does again in TSR to take everyone to Rhuidean doesnt he?
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Dec 24, 2021 16:07
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Nitrousoxide posted:Twice. Once to travel when they find “Seline” in the mirror world, and a second time for FLICKER FLICKER FLICKER Sorry, I meant portal stone FLICKER specifically, not just using the stones  Ultimately I don't care what book readers thought of the episode as long as watchers liked it Edit: Episodes 1 and 8 were my least favorite, and I wonder if they were the ones most tampered with by executive demands. If so, hopefully this might convince them 1) they need more/longer episodes per season, and 2) that their changes need to make sense. I did not get the feeling I did from past episodes that even if there were changes, they were by someone who loved and understood the Source material (  )
DarkHorse fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Dec 24, 2021 |
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Dec 24, 2021 16:10
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They are used to get to the Aiel Waste in Shadow Rising.
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Dec 24, 2021 16:11
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Rarity posted:What's this then? Pretty sure that's the new Stupid Newbies. I've seen others with it.
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Dec 24, 2021 16:15
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when your character is too expensive to film because boats take $$$$$
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Dec 24, 2021 16:15
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it's been awhile since i've read the books, moraine is basically stuck like a barnacle to rand until she gets captured right? it makes her disappearance and subsequent reunion in AMoL really impactful, splitting her from rand means they're not so close. curious how this changes their relationship and a little worried that they'll try to force book dynamics into something that won't be in the show. would have liked a bit of explanation about the sa'angreal in the 'modern' world. like moraine saying she "borrowed it from the white tower and she'd be banished (again) if they found out" or something to contextualize its rarity in the setting. speaking of something moraine meant for nyneave, have they gone into the differences between men/women channelling? so far, it all seems the same except for the black tendrils of taint, right? really like the visual of burnt out channelers. sad about loial, i always liked the ogier but i get why they cut him. who wondered if damane would have bronze pacifiers lmao perrin needs to see a physiotherapist about his posture. overall im excited to see where the changes lead. much prefer the show to be it's own thing rather than being an imperfect copy of the book. hope whatever went down with mat's actor gets settled, amazon not being able to lock down an actor for 8 episodes is pathetic. edit: i think my expectations for this show was way lower than most people in this thread tho crepeface fucked around with this message at 16:34 on Dec 24, 2021 |
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Dec 24, 2021 16:27
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Moiraine leaves him alone in tGH. In tDR she wants to stick with him but Rand slips out and runs off without her. In tSR and tFoH they're stuck together, but only for those two books.
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Dec 24, 2021 16:28
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KOGAHAZAN!! posted:
The whole Shienar bit just didn't seem to work for me. Short of the Aiel the Borderlanders are supposed to be some of the best Shadow fighters in the world and they acted like this was the largest army of Trollocs ever. It's supposed to be an overwhelming force at the end, but the massively important Borderlander city has only a few hundred guys with crossbows, no pikes, and a badly designed fort as the only thing stopping anything from leaving the Blight? Hell, they describe just a basic watchtower in one of the books and its better designed and manned than the final fort before Fal Dara. I'm not liking the way they're handling Perrin either. There's a difference between not wanting to be violent and being totally unwilling even to save someone's life. Perrin never felt bad about killing Trollocs, they're literal monsters that you can only hope kill you before they eat you. It just doesn't seem like it's working as believable, but maybe that's just me.
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Dec 24, 2021 16:33
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KOGAHAZAN!! posted:
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Dec 24, 2021 16:36
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That was weird, and kind of inept. The ending of EotW is weird and convoluted and easily the weakest part of the book series pre-slog, but they somehow found a way to make it more confusing and less definitive? The Seanchan design looks like they glued Styrofoam cups to the sides of their ships. Perrin kind of sucked out loud, I hope they find something better to do with his character next season. It feels like they're making choices to change things from the books, but in a real half-assed and muddled way. Like, here's Loial, but also we cut virtually everything he says or does, and also he's dead maybe? Min's moved to Fal Dara, but ultimately does virtually nothing because the move cut out the structural purpose to her being in the first book; in the book she's there to confirm that the kids Morraine picked up are the Children of Destiny, but by the time she showed up in the show we already knew that, and they didn't really give any other important information for her to relate since they decided to sit on the Dragon Reborn reveal until later.
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Dec 24, 2021 16:38
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KOGAHAZAN!! posted:Moiraine leaves him alone in tGH. In tDR she wants to stick with him but Rand slips out and runs off without her. In tSR and tFoH they're stuck together, but only for those two books. forgot about that. still, letting him go off on his own is still a change. moiraine is like an overbearing big sister and rand is constantly testing boundaries and trying to get rid of her but feels her absence when she's gone. it's especially out of character for moiraine if what they had was just "the first battle." hope she snuck an enchanted coin in his pocket!
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Dec 24, 2021 16:41
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I'm enjoying the show for what it is but it feels... dumb? For lack of a better word.
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Dec 24, 2021 16:41
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Oh, right: Mat was probably the one Fain was supposed to stab, and then the next season would be them getting the dagger back to heal Mat, but they stabbed Loial instead because Barney Harris. Still feels ineptly done, even if it's not their fault.
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Dec 24, 2021 16:43
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We’ll see how it pans out but I always figured the show would just end up kinda generic cause all the cool poo poo would take money/time to show. They cut a lot of cool poo poo out already, we’ll see how much hype there is after a couple of seasons with generic fantasy show 12573.
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Dec 24, 2021 16:44
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Ok, quote this post by midnight Christmas EST if you want this gangtag added to your profile: Don't want to miss this, thoughts to come. So much they've rearranged!
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Dec 24, 2021 16:45
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Invalid Validation posted:We’ll see how it pans out but I always figured the show would just end up kinda generic cause all the cool poo poo would take money/time to show. They cut a lot of cool poo poo out already, we’ll see how much hype there is after a couple of seasons with generic fantasy show 12573. The weird thing is they added expensive VFX poo poo that wasn't there in the books, but in a way that hugely undercuts the world building and plot and doesn't really add anything. In the books the battle at Tarwin's Gap is ended by Rand channeling literally all of the remaining untainted Saidin in the world to wipe an entire Shadowspawn army off the face of the earth in one of the greatest displays of power in centuries. In the show it's two powerful but untrained wilders and three women who were too weak to make the cut as Aes Sedai, but they accomplish the same thing? If that's what novices can do, proper Aes Sedai ought to be able to destroy the entire blight in a couple of weeks, even if it burns a few of them out. There's no larger thought behind it, it's just "We need a big VFX battle" EDit: Also, Morraine just happened to have an insanely powerful male sa'angreal in her pocket this whole time and never mentioned it? What was her plan if the DR was Egwene? Or was the sa'angreal unisex? But if so, why didn't she ever bust it out on any of the numerous occasions where it would have helped. Old Kentucky Shark fucked around with this message at 16:55 on Dec 24, 2021 |
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Dec 24, 2021 16:51
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crepeface posted:forgot about that. still, letting him go off on his own is still a change. moiraine is like an overbearing big sister and rand is constantly testing boundaries and trying to get rid of her but feels her absence when she's gone. it's especially out of character for moiraine if what they had was just "the first battle." hope she snuck an enchanted coin in his pocket! In EotW she's Gandalf trying to herd all of them, but she quickly realizes trying to force Two Rivers folk to do anything is the surest way to get them to do the opposite so she deliberately ignores Rand all through TGH. Bt TDR Rand gets mad that she isn't helping and saying to continue hiding in the mountains and thinks that is an Aes Sedai plot before striking off on his own when they're attacked and he blames himself for everyone dying. Later on in the Waste Moiraine is trying to teach him everything about ruling, Daes'da'mar, etc. He's constantly suspicious of her until she finally begs him to say what she can do to get him to trust her, and he says to swear to respect/obey his decisions and she does, which surprises him and eventually gets him to start listening to her. Then she gets doorway'd and he spends all the time wishing he had her for advice and wondering what she'd tell him to do. Hieronymous Alloy posted:when your character is too expensive to film because boats take $$$$$ I've been wondering lately why everyone loves Domon so much, after all he's just a secondary character everyone just randomly happens upon throughout the tale, and this is what I came up with
Basically he's the "I'm too old for this poo poo" character
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Dec 24, 2021 17:00
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Judkins breaking down the finale https://www.cbr.com/wheel-of-time-rafe-judkins-interview/
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Dec 24, 2021 17:00
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We got confirmation that Loial didn't die at least.
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Dec 24, 2021 17:15
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disappointing to hear that not only is perrin not going to be killed off, but faile is not cut
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Dec 24, 2021 17:16
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MegaZeroX posted:We got confirmation that Loial didn't die at least. And Moiraine was stilled to give her and Lan a reason to emote in season 2 since they basically have nothing in books 2&3.
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Dec 24, 2021 17:18
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I think I've figured out what annoys me about Perrin's appearance, and it's that he has a slack jawed open-mouthed slouch most of the time I hope we get him working out complicated problems with solutions that seem effortless and simple, like his analogy with blacksmith puzzles. Also his crazy strength- i though they were going to show him and Loial moving those stones that Uno and the other guy were struggling with relative ease. Right now he really just seems simple and thick. 
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Dec 24, 2021 17:27
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Ok, quote this post by midnight Christmas EST if you want this gangtag added to your profile: Hell yeah it rules. Rythian posted:Staff fight This is also a reference to the real world story that the only fight Miyamoto Musashi ever lost was against a staff user. It shows Mat as being an extremely skilled fighter as well, so him killing Couladin later on doesn't come out of nowhere, and sets him up to use his personal weapon. Also it's rad as hell. Old Kentucky Shark posted:In the books the battle at Tarwin's Gap is ended by Rand channeling literally all of the remaining untainted Saidin in the world to wipe an entire Shadowspawn army off the face of the earth in one of the greatest displays of power in centuries. In the show it's two powerful but untrained wilders and three women who were too weak to make the cut as Aes Sedai, but they accomplish the same thing? If that's what novices can do, proper Aes Sedai ought to be able to destroy the entire blight in a couple of weeks, even if it burns a few of them out. It's also a callback to the battle of Manetheren, a woman drawing so much of the power she is able to destroys the enemy - but burns herself out in the process. Overall, I liked the season, but would have liked it a lot more if it had had more time to tell its story.
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Dec 24, 2021 17:28
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Cavelcade posted:It's also a callback to the battle of Manetheren, a woman drawing so much of the power she is able to destroys the enemy - but burns herself out in the process. Yes, I'm aware, but that doesn't make it less dumb. Queen Ellisande could only do that because she was one of the most powerful Aes Sedai who ever lived, the last of the proper Witch Queens of an elder age,. not someone established one episode before as being too weak to make full Aes Sedai. if every Else Grinwell could nuke a trolloc army at the cost of their own lives, WoT would be a short loving series.
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Dec 24, 2021 17:33
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Ok, quote this post by midnight Christmas EST if you want this gangtag added to your profile: Baby's first tag!
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Dec 24, 2021 17:35
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