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Aes Sedai also believe you can’t be Black Ajah because the oaths would prevent you from becoming one. Too bad about the whole oath rod being able to sever the oaths thing nobody seemingly had a thought to try.
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Jan 9, 2022 02:10
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The Dunning-Kruger effect is strong with the Aes Sedai.
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Jan 9, 2022 02:25
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So the only halfway “smart” or cunning Aes Sedai were Black Ajah then? They figured it out.
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Jan 9, 2022 03:03
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Did they ever say how the Black Ajah avoided the oath rod or just making the oath to the Dark One they were able to break that oath?
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Jan 9, 2022 03:10
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They used the Oath Rod to break the three oaths and then swore their own three oaths instead.
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Jan 9, 2022 03:20
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Hollismason posted:Did they ever say how the Black Ajah avoided the oath rod or just making the oath to the Dark One they were able to break that oath? Most are inducted after they're full Aes Sedai. So they do the normal ceremony and when they get recruited do the secret unswearing/reswearing ceremony with Black sisters. Like the 3 Oaths are just 1)To speak no word that is not true 2)To make no weapon with which one man may kill another 3)Never to use the One Power as a weapon except against Darkfriends or Shadowspawn, or in the last extreme defense of her life, the life of her Warder, or another Aes Sedai So as long as they aren't getting blatantly asked 'are you a Darkfriend', its not super onerous to be under the normal 3 Oaths for a period even as a Darkfriend. There's nothing in the Oath prohibiting being a Darkfriend or aiding the Shadow, you just can't lie about it  Zore fucked around with this message at 03:23 on Jan 9, 2022 |
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Jan 9, 2022 03:21
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jetz0r posted:Or how states in severe danger from climate change forbid the mention of it in official documents? Yeah this is all the explanation that's needed. A lot of things people go "that's so unrealistic" about in WoT, no, actually, more realistic than most people want to admit
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Jan 9, 2022 03:30
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the sisters all believe they would be able to spot a darkfriend while living in such close proximity to them. 25% is such a comically ridiculous figure. it would have been staggering at 10% but 1/4 sisters being aes Sedai you'd figure a few would get caught.
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Jan 9, 2022 04:18
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Gwaihir posted:Yeah the ultimate list was like 200-250? A huge percentage of the total. 
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Jan 9, 2022 04:41
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Ghislaine of YOSPOS posted:the sisters all believe they would be able to spot a darkfriend while living in such close proximity to them. 25% is such a comically ridiculous figure. it would have been staggering at 10% but 1/4 sisters being aes Sedai you'd figure a few would get caught. it sounded like 90% of the black ajah actions were to bicker and spread discontent within the white tower. which was also 90% of what every other aes sedai does
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Jan 9, 2022 04:44
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The thing is, prior to the birth of the Dragon Reborn kicking things into high gear, the main activities of the black ajah were political backstabbing, getting petty vengeance for personal sleights, and ruthlessly consolidating personal power. You know; normal Aes Sedai poo poo. Edit: Damnit, beaten.
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Jan 9, 2022 04:45
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"I don’t see how that works. White Nationalists are a known phenomenon. It must be absolutely assumed that infiltration of law enforcement is a top tier priority. Any hand waving or dismissiveness should probably warrant extra scrutiny." And yet... It behooves any faction of extremist infiltrators to get the organization they're infiltrating to deny the existence of infiltrators. It's just good spycraft. Like 101 poo poo.
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Jan 9, 2022 04:55
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finished my reread  i'd totally forgotten that the last battle started off with four different fronts – the whole thing takes up like half of the last book, but sanderson manages to keep the momentum going pretty well. think mat's story is my fave overall!!! couple of small lols: – gawain putting on three of the suicide bomber ter'angreals and still failing to touch demandred – if the show keeps things broadly the same, perrin's wife being a thing makes the culmination of his character arc a bit unfortunate lol – sometimes it's good lose all self control, and also kill women!
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Jan 9, 2022 11:11
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Yeah I'm rereading New Spring for probably the first time in 10+ years. It was the first of any of the books I read so I missed a lot! It is hard to overstate just how terribly run the White Tower clearly is. Even leaving aside the most obvious bit which is that it is half empty and can't recruit enough novices to replenish even in peacetime: Moirane and Siuan as trainees live in constant terror of being beaten for a trivial breach of  Hierarchy is literally based on strength with the power. No regard to skill, or efficiency, or even who would win an actual fight. Even as freshly raised Aes Sedai who don't know poo poo, M+S have at least one full sister with years of experience bowing and scraping to them just because they're moderately strong and she isn't. You can literally see through the narration how much of Moiraine's thought process is wasted keeping up the ageless grace schtick verseus getting things done. It is a lot. Actual political power is concentrated in self satisfied prima donnas like Cadsuane, who are the only ones who can rise above the bullshit by bullying their way through it and subjugating everyone around them.
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Jan 9, 2022 11:59
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Aes Sedai bickering, they would never
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Jan 9, 2022 12:04
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AlternateAccount posted:Sooo... how dumb is the White Tower to generally make any mention of the Black Ajah forbidden? Like... it's clearly a thing and has been for a long time. . You're the most powerful organization known, why wouldn't you consider yourselves to be the top target for infiltration? I don't remember ever really hearing about any efforts to combat this directly, it's all pretended to not exist, even inside the tower. the cold war era organizations made efforts to catch spies, and they didn't succeed much better. someone whose name i've forgotten lived in the uk and spied for the soviets for decades. they were caught a few times, and everytime they said "I'm not a spy, your sources lie and maybe are spies themselves" and it worked CuriousSymptoms posted:Aes Sedai bickering, they would never finally an adaptation that gets moiraine baggins' height right
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Jan 9, 2022 14:01
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ChubbyChecker posted:the cold war era organizations made efforts to catch spies, and they didn't succeed much better. someone whose name i've forgotten lived in the uk and spied for the soviets for decades. they were caught a few times, and everytime they said "I'm not a spy, your sources lie and maybe are spies themselves" and it worked If you're referring to Geoffrey Prime, IIRC that had more to do with the legendary incompetence of the British security services than anything else. The Soviets actually tried to burn him after they figured out he was a paedophile, made a big show of meeting him publicly in Prague, and were then baffled when MI5 still didn't figure it out. Only caught him when he came clean to his wife and she turned him in.
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Jan 9, 2022 14:30
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KOGAHAZAN!! posted:If you're referring to Geoffrey Prime, IIRC that had more to do with the legendary incompetence of the British security services than anything else. The Soviets actually tried to burn him after they figured out he was a paedophile, made a big show of meeting him publicly in Prague, and were then baffled when MI5 still didn't figure it out. i'm not 100% sure if it was his case that i read about, the british intelligence services had more than a few cockups
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Jan 9, 2022 14:42
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MegaZeroX posted:So, if anyone is interested in seeing show watchers go back and read the book, Nerdy Nightly is doing that now. KOGAHAZAN!! posted:[this] has been a really fun and interesting watch so far. They very clearly were not expecting the show and the book to be as divergent as they are. Also the guy says he's been involved in TV and $10m per episode is a shitload of cash. Hell knows what actual experience in the industry he has, of course. Is there any verdict on whether the budget was just too low for this season? It sounds like a lot of cash but it seems extremely difficult to compare to other shows given things like varying cast salaries. silvergoose posted:There's more info earlier on than in the show (Rand and Mat talk about Logain and men who can channel and stuff in the very first chapters, for example, and Moiraine goes into the five powers to Egwene early on) but also less in some ways, so it's kind of both?
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Jan 9, 2022 16:10
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Gwaihir posted:Yeah the ultimate list was like 200-250? A huge percentage of the total. With the Black Ajah heart structure, it’s funny to think the whole tower could eventually ALL be darkfriends and they wouldn’t know. They’d all be subverting each other and making themselves miserable.
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Jan 9, 2022 16:22
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ChubbyChecker posted:moiraine baggins' height  this is my only criticism of the sony-amazon adaptation
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Jan 9, 2022 16:32
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El Grillo posted:Thanks for posting and reposting, this was a lot of fun to watch. They call out some interesting holes in the first book that I hadn't noticed before (why do the Fades/Trollocs actually talk to Rand and ask him to come with them, also how does Rand avoid detection by the Fade that stops and looks right in his direction during his death march back to EF with Tam on the litter). They are totally blown away by the stuff that the show left out. Re: "Is 10m per episode a lot?" For an established series with already existing production infrastructure, yeah. For a new one building a studio from scratch and dealing with a disruptive pandemic, not so much.
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Jan 9, 2022 16:41
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Gwaihir posted:Re: "Is 10m per episode a lot?" For an established series with already existing production infrastructure, yeah. For a new one building a studio from scratch and dealing with a disruptive pandemic, not so much. There's also this Variety posted:COVID protocols have added about 5% to the cost of film and TV production budgets, according to an analysis by the California Film Commission. This is of course for California, theres no telling if a truely international production is comparable or even higher or lower. https://variety.com/2021/film/news/covid-costs-film-tv-production-1235113051/
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Jan 9, 2022 16:46
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I would've assumed (probably wrongly) that the reason they move a production out to Prague or wherever, is because it is vastly cheaper to film there than in California/UK etc.?
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Jan 9, 2022 17:15
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It's more that for a fantasy series you need a lot of castles and forests and whatnot. WoT's per episode budget is high by the scale of TV dramas but low by the scale of TV fantasy (witcher, GoT). This is one reason there haven't been as many TV drama fantasy shows, until GoT showed the market existed they tended to be thought too expensive to make. TV sf often has a similar production costs problem (see firefly or dark angel).
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Jan 9, 2022 17:21
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El Grillo posted:I would've assumed (probably wrongly) that the reason they move a production out to Prague or wherever, is because it is vastly cheaper to film there than in California/UK etc.? In a Judkins interview (maybe the BTS one about Jordan Studios) it seemed more of a booking and space issue. Hollywood was all booked up and backlogged, Georgia studio space is all booked up and backlogged, London/UK is all booked up and backlogged, so they ended up in Prague. Which was all booked up and backlogged for studio space so they built their own studio and backlot.
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Jan 9, 2022 17:28
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El Grillo posted:I would've assumed (probably wrongly) that the reason they move a production out to Prague or wherever, is because it is vastly cheaper to film there than in California/UK etc.? It is likely a combination of factors, including that it is closer to a lot of nature and castle stuff they wanted to film
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Jan 9, 2022 17:28
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Chiming in on show Mat vs book Mat. I think the actor was enjoyable, but the script let him down. In the book we meet Mat as a scamp/ prankster, then we see his personality change after he gets the dagger. In the show we really don't see that difference, because he doesn't start out lighthearted at all. Mat's supposed to be the most fun of the three, but in the show they're all pretty dour. This show has a real uphill battle to get those 3 to a point where we actually care about them. In only 8 episodes, I didn't get enough character time to give a crap about these 3 at all. Hoping season 2 does a better job of that. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Jan 9, 2022 17:39
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You're supposed to be caring about the 5 of them, not just the boys.  More episodes would help. I think we were given enough on the show to care about most of them though. Egwene probably the least. That said next season should be a lot of Egwene.
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Jan 9, 2022 17:43
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Yeah I imagine Egwene and Rand will be the focus if the season, with Perrin getting stuff from Elyas, Mat having stuff with Thom, Elayne being introduced, and Nyneave taking a bit of a back burner, with Moiraine going through her stilling plot and Lan figuring out what to do with it.
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Jan 9, 2022 17:47
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rocketrobot posted:You're supposed to be caring about the 5 of them, not just the boys.
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Jan 9, 2022 17:52
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Reading through Gathering Storm for the first time and just got to Verin’s big scene. That was an awesome payoff and really well written.
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Jan 9, 2022 17:54
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I'm already more interested in watching the gals than I am the guys. I hope the guys get more interesting, is all.
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Jan 9, 2022 17:57
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RandomReader posted:And being a group of 5 suddenly makes not caring about 60% of them, what? what
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Jan 9, 2022 17:59
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Mat is if anything more emo and annoying in the first two books. Genuinely wonder how many people unhappy with show mat recently read EOTW/TGH, there’s a reason it’s so impressive what Jordan did with Mat in the third book.
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Jan 9, 2022 18:06
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Is fain gonna get the dagger from TV twice??!
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Jan 9, 2022 18:08
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buffalo all day posted:Mat is if anything more emo and annoying in the first two books. Genuinely wonder how many people unhappy with show mat recently read EOTW/TGH, there’s a reason it’s so impressive what Jordan did with Mat in the third book.
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Jan 9, 2022 18:11
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buffalo all day posted:Mat is if anything more emo and annoying in the first two books. Genuinely wonder how many people unhappy with show mat recently read EOTW/TGH, there’s a reason it’s so impressive what Jordan did with Mat in the third book. I just did. Book Mat after getting the dagger is no fun which is kind of the point. None of the boys are any fun in book 2. (Rand is the worst of them. Just 100% whining about not being a puppet.) But Mat starts TEOTW as a mischievous playful dude, not a depressed thief with neglectful parents. I'm on book 3 in my reread right now, and Mat's about to take off which is great. Show Mat gets some quips, but seems to have zero joy in his character.
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Jan 9, 2022 18:16
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Tinydryad posted:I just did. Book Mat after getting the dagger is no fun which is kind of the point. None of the boys are any fun in book 2. (Rand is the worst of them. Just 100% whining about not being a puppet.) But Mat starts TEOTW as a mischievous playful dude, not a depressed thief with neglectful parents. I'm on book 3 in my reread right now, and Mat's about to take off which is great. Show Mat gets some quips, but seems to have zero joy in his character. Speaking of book 2, remember Thom's mid-20's girlfriend who gets fridged because of the pull of ta'veren and so he can kill a king? I didn't!
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Jan 9, 2022 18:21
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Yep! I honestly really disliked that even as a middle schooler in the 90s, I thought Dena was great and should have stuck around.
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