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16-bit Butt-Head
Dec 25, 2014
you should only ever use the chainsaw even and especially when it is detrimental to do so imo

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dolphinbomb
Apr 2, 2007



Grimey Drawer

Last Celebration posted:

Well :actually: Auto Crossbow out damages it at high levels because physical attacks scale better with levels than magic ones. I think. :v:

Especially since if you want to minmax you'd be pumping his strength with esper bonuses and slapping an imp set and dragon horn on him.

Not that it's even remotely necessary in this game, buuuut

Elephant Ambush
Nov 13, 2012

...We sholde spenden more time together. What sayest thou?
Nap Ghost

Cleretic posted:

If you're someone like I was as a kid, who refuses to use any consumables because you might need them someday, then free damage is a huge get.

LMAO at using consumables when you're young and playing a game for the first time with no walkthrough.

jokes
Dec 20, 2012

Uh... Kupo?

Elixirs should be able to be sold for a significant amount of gil, and also gil is way more important/usable.

I always used a lot more elixirs in FF3 (DS) to restore MP, once magic had a big ol' shared pool I never used elixirs again.

Mustached Demon
Nov 12, 2016

Wait there isn't a hidden achievement for beating FFs without using elixirs?!

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Mustached Demon posted:

Wait there isn't a hidden achievement for beating FFs without using elixirs?!

There is in our hearts

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008

If you beat the entire game without using any elixirs or megalixirs, there will be a chest right before the final boss that contains the ultimate healing item - the gigalixir - as a reward for your frugality.

the gigalixir is completely unusable

jokes
Dec 20, 2012

Uh... Kupo?

Fister Roboto posted:

If you beat the entire game without using any elixirs or megalixirs, there will be a chest right before the final boss that contains the ultimate healing item - the gigalixir - as a reward for your frugality.

the gigalixir is completely unusable

When you use it, it immediately fully heals the party's HP and MP 3 times.

HD DAD
Jan 13, 2010

Generic white guy.

Toilet Rascal

Fister Roboto posted:

If you beat the entire game without using any elixirs or megalixirs, there will be a chest right before the final boss that contains the ultimate healing item - the gigalixir - as a reward for your frugality.

the gigalixir is completely unusable

The gigalixir crashes your game and deletes your save.

Last Celebration
Mar 30, 2010
Look at these scrubs using elixirs in FFVI to heal when you can trade up for the Auto Haste/Protect/Shell filler relic.

…speaking of relics, it’s kinda crazy that there’s a postgame boss-level random encounter that gives the One MP relic as a rare steal but it’s pretty bad in that game.

Mr. Locke
Jul 28, 2010
Maybe it's coming to SNES jRPGs via the route of Mega Man and Bard's Tale where every resource is a tool to be used but any Megaelixer still in my inventory by credits roll was a wasted megalixer to even my 13 year self when I played FFVI for the first time. I have a very vivid memory I had was traumatizing a friend by popping an Elixir to refill someone's MP- I think whoever it was that had most of my strongest healing spells- during a rough but not lost Atma Weapon fight on the Floating Continent and a friend blew a gasket that I'd waste something that valuable just because things were tense.

I just reopened the menu to show them I still had like three more but they were like 'yeah, but what if you need four?'

.. what if I needed four? :ohdear:

Mr. Locke fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Feb 4, 2022

jokes
Dec 20, 2012

Uh... Kupo?

Yeah but what if you need 34?

Elephant Ambush
Nov 13, 2012

...We sholde spenden more time together. What sayest thou?
Nap Ghost
Elixir Syndrome is powerful

And I say that as a former Elixir Syndrome sufferer

Now I intentionally use them in situations like that just to spite my dumb younger self

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

I've already used six or so elixirs. You guys need to break outta your hoarder mindset

Frionnel
May 7, 2010

Friends are what make testing worth it.
Using an elixir? That's fine now, no problem. What if i need those megalixirs though?

Evil Fluffy
Jul 13, 2009

Scholars are some of the most pompous and pedantic people I've ever had the joy of meeting.

Mustached Demon posted:

VI chat reminded me that it's February and VIPR isn't out yet. Now I'm sad.

They haven't even released trailers or music teasers like with the other games yet have they?

Last Celebration posted:

Chainsaw effectively having 75% accuracy kinda blows though, it would be so much better if the fatality only procced on enemies that could be hit with it.

Tools in general is kinda jank though, you get new options to buy/find until like Zozo…and then I think two more later? And those are the utility ones, one iirc takes away enemy elemental resists and the other is a Fist of the North Star style kill which is kinda neat?

Autocrossbow and bioblaster more than cover you for damage until you can buy the drill and the drill covers you for single target damage indefinitely even if you never get the chainsaw. Flash is useful in some situations and the noiseblaster's handy in a few situations where you don't just want damage. Debilitator would be good if you could pick the weakness and the air anchor exists.

Autocrossbow+bioblaster+drill+flash are all Edgar needs and you have to be actively avoiding things to not get them.

Mordiceius
Nov 10, 2007

If you think calling me names is gonna get a rise out me, think again. I like my life as an idiot!
I feel like one of the problems of original FF7 is just that it is an old game.

I played through all the old PS1/PS2 FF games when I was a teenager. A few years back, a while after my wife had gotten into FFXIV, we went and played through FF8/FF9/FF10. All three of those hold up pretty drat well. They don't hold your hand, but for the most you understand what you should be doing at any given time. Like all Final Fantasy games, there is a glut of side content that you can miss if you're just main-lining the story, but rarely do you think "where am I supposed to go next?"

During the first year of the pandemic when we had a lot of time at home, she wanted to try FF7. She got to Junon before basically giving up on the game. She found the gameplay frustrating and often just found herself completely loving lost without any clue where she should be going.

Like I said, I think a lot of this can be attribute to "it is an old game" but this does echo my experiences when I first play FF7.

My first FF game was FF8 and then from there, I can't remember if I played FF9 next or went back to FF7. But I did find myself incredibly frustrated when playing FF7 around 2001.

grieving for Gandalf
Apr 22, 2008

getting more frustrated playing 7 than 8 is insane, but covid's been hard on everyone

Mordiceius
Nov 10, 2007

If you think calling me names is gonna get a rise out me, think again. I like my life as an idiot!

Motto posted:

"It's like Shadow Hearts, not Dragon Quest" is one of the nicest things you could say about a game honestly

I think about Shadow Hearts at least once a month. Shadow Hearts 1 & 2 are just an incredible loving combo of games. Shame they never made a third game.

Give me a Shadow Hearts 1/2 remaster, damnit! :argh:

Twelve by Pies
May 4, 2012

Again a very likpatous story
The only time I think 7 just doesn't really tell you where to go is right after you have a slap fight with Scarlet at Junon and get the Highwind. The most you get is vague talk from Red XIII about how the Lifestream bubbles up to the surface in some places and that's it. Mostly the game seems to just assume you'll fly around and look for new places to go and stumble across Mideel.

Elephant Ambush
Nov 13, 2012

...We sholde spenden more time together. What sayest thou?
Nap Ghost

Twelve by Pies posted:

The only time I think 7 just doesn't really tell you where to go is right after you have a slap fight with Scarlet at Junon and get the Highwind. The most you get is vague talk from Red XIII about how the Lifestream bubbles up to the surface in some places and that's it. Mostly the game seems to just assume you'll fly around and look for new places to go and stumble across Mideel.

These types of things are in a lot of RPGs and I never understand why people get mad at them. They give you the ability to go explore the whole world and discover new things and so many people are like "but nobody told me where to go!" That's the point. You're not supposed to be told. You're intended to explore and talk to people and discover it on your own while also finding all kinds of cool stuff you couldn't get to before.

Orcs and Ostriches
Aug 26, 2010


The Great Twist

Elephant Ambush posted:

These types of things are in a lot of RPGs and I never understand why people get mad at them. They give you the ability to go explore the whole world and discover new things and so many people are like "but nobody told me where to go!" That's the point. You're not supposed to be told. You're intended to explore and talk to people and discover it on your own while also finding all kinds of cool stuff you couldn't get to before.

Nah, just gonna skip all the text and follow the arrow marker.

dolphinbomb
Apr 2, 2007



Grimey Drawer

Elephant Ambush posted:

Elixir Syndrome is powerful

And I say that as a former Elixir Syndrome sufferer

Now I intentionally use them in situations like that just to spite my dumb younger self

Leviathan in FF4DS broke me of elixir syndrome. I was determined to kill him the moment the Feymarch became available and I was probably a good 10 or so levels below where I should've been at that point. I barely won by making Cecil chug elixirs to stay alive and chucking every single use battle item I could. I almost went and loaded my last save because 'what if I need those later in the game? :ohdear:'

I did not need those later in the game.

jokes
Dec 20, 2012

Uh... Kupo?

FF5 has you ask yourself whether or not you want to give an elixir to a magic pot for a shitload of AP. Who wouldn’t? You have like 50 at that point and he gives you like 200 AP for one.

a kitten
Aug 5, 2006

All my ff party members have opened Elixir Shops after the games ends so it's fine that I ended with so many of them. Gotta plan for the long term

HD DAD
Jan 13, 2010

Generic white guy.

Toilet Rascal

Mordiceius posted:

I feel like one of the problems of original FF7 is just that it is an old game.

I played through all the old PS1/PS2 FF games when I was a teenager. A few years back, a while after my wife had gotten into FFXIV, we went and played through FF8/FF9/FF10. All three of those hold up pretty drat well. They don't hold your hand, but for the most you understand what you should be doing at any given time. Like all Final Fantasy games, there is a glut of side content that you can miss if you're just main-lining the story, but rarely do you think "where am I supposed to go next?"

During the first year of the pandemic when we had a lot of time at home, she wanted to try FF7. She got to Junon before basically giving up on the game. She found the gameplay frustrating and often just found herself completely loving lost without any clue where she should be going.

Like I said, I think a lot of this can be attribute to "it is an old game" but this does echo my experiences when I first play FF7.

My first FF game was FF8 and then from there, I can't remember if I played FF9 next or went back to FF7. But I did find myself incredibly frustrated when playing FF7 around 2001.

It’s really funny how time works. I first played FF7 in 2001 also, and even then the general consensus was that it was an “old, already classic” game. Nowadays thinking of something from 2018 as practically ancient seems insane to me. Product of getting old, I guess.

CharlieFoxtrot
Mar 27, 2007

organize digital employees



16-bit Butt-Head posted:

you should only ever use the chainsaw even and especially when it is detrimental to do so imo

In FF14 I remain disappointed that the machinist finally gets a chainsaw... But it isn't a jump-in melee attack

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

HD DAD posted:

It’s really funny how time works. I first played FF7 in 2001 also, and even then the general consensus was that it was an “old, already classic” game. Nowadays thinking of something from 2018 as practically ancient seems insane to me. Product of getting old, I guess.

I think part of it is just how rapidly video game tech was evolving then. A game from 1997 and a game from 2001 look wildly different even just graphically, while a game from 2018 and a game from 2022 look a lot more similar. That's not even to include just how different of an actual game FFVII (1997) is from FFX (2001), while games in the same series or even genre from 2018 and 2022 are going to be pretty much the same structurally and gameplay-wise.

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008

Twelve by Pies posted:

The only time I think 7 just doesn't really tell you where to go is right after you have a slap fight with Scarlet at Junon and get the Highwind. The most you get is vague talk from Red XIII about how the Lifestream bubbles up to the surface in some places and that's it. Mostly the game seems to just assume you'll fly around and look for new places to go and stumble across Mideel.

To be fair Mideel is visible on the map for the entire game, and you may have already seen it when you were down south looking for the temple of the ancients. You can't visit there until you get the airship so I guess the idea is that you'll see it, want to go there but can't, and then remember when you can. It's definitely very dependent on exploration drive though.

SettingSun
Aug 10, 2013

FF7 was an old game in 2001 because the technological jump from PS1 to PS2 was immense. The jump from PS3 to PS4 was not as stark. PS4 to PS5 even less so. God of War came out in 2018! That game still looks incredible!

Electric Phantasm
Apr 7, 2011

YOSPOS

CharlieFoxtrot posted:

In FF14 I remain disappointed that the machinist finally gets a chainsaw... But it isn't a jump-in melee attack

Haven’t leveled my machinist enough, but it isn't? Where did I get the idea it was?

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

Games do not get worse with age. A good game will always be a good game, the thing that changed was you.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Electric Phantasm posted:

Haven’t leveled my machinist enough, but it isn't? Where did I get the idea it was?

Weirdly the ranged job that got a "rush in and do a melee hit" move in Endwalker was Summoner, rather than Machinist :v:

Chain Saw in FFXIV is a ranged attack that launches three big circular saw blades.

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008

Electric Phantasm posted:

Haven’t leveled my machinist enough, but it isn't? Where did I get the idea it was?

It also isn't really a chainsaw so much as it is a chain of saws.

Mordiceius
Nov 10, 2007

If you think calling me names is gonna get a rise out me, think again. I like my life as an idiot!

Orcs and Ostriches posted:

Nah, just gonna skip all the text and follow the arrow marker.

I know you were just being a little snarky and flippant with this comment but it made me reflect on things.

I used to be one of those grognards that bitched about modern conveniences. I remember when I used to play WoW and they added circles to direct your to the area for your quest. It was probably around WotLK or so? I was one of the insufferable grogs bitching about how they're making things even more casual "just read the quest text! it tells you where to go!"

I think Fable was one of the first games to have a breadcrumb trail that directly leads you to the objective. I remember mocking that as well. "Why even play this game if you're just getting told where to go?"

But I've made a major turn on this in the last decade. I think every game should have map markers/breadcrumb trails, if only as a toggle-able option.

Case in point - my wife is absolutely dreadful with directions. Literally can never remember how to get from point A to point B ever and will always get turned around. She's been playing FFXIV since HW and still gets lost in certain areas or can't remember which area is where. For her, she wouldn't be able to play FFXIV if quests didn't mark where the objective is.

So yeah, 1997 FF7 would be better if you could toggle on a quest arrow that just directed you where to go. Every game should have that.

More accessibility isn't a bad thing.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

Yes it is.

Arist
Feb 13, 2012

who, me?



:chloe:

Mordiceius
Nov 10, 2007

If you think calling me names is gonna get a rise out me, think again. I like my life as an idiot!

Please elaborate. I am genuinely curious.

Elephant Ambush
Nov 13, 2012

...We sholde spenden more time together. What sayest thou?
Nap Ghost

OK at this point I can officially write off and ignore all your stupid wrong opinions about everything

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Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

Go look at Morrowind Vs Oblivion. Game development does not exist in a vacuum. the second you put in an arrow suddenly it's not as important to give useful directions. It destroys world design, exploration, and sense of accomplishment.

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