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Yeah I won't be giving notice until my background check is done. Hopefully it doesn't take too long since I haven't moved a ton and keep a pretty watchful eye on my stuff. My 'ideal' apartment is coming up for rent in the next few weeks so we'll see.
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Feb 6, 2022 18:27
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The new company countersigned the agreement, which brings the risk profile for notifying my company way down. I feel like the worst thing that can happen is I’m fun-employed for a week or two waiting for a background check to clear. Since I have over 150 hrs of vacation that’s got to get paid out a short vacation doesn’t seem like the worst thing ever. I should probably take more PTO.
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Feb 6, 2022 19:45
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As long as benefits are covered, a week or two of funemployment seems nice. Lots of Americans don’t take enough PTO.
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Feb 6, 2022 20:06
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Democratic Pirate posted:As long as benefits are covered, a week or two of funemployment seems nice. Lots of Americans don’t take enough PTO. Agreed and I try to take at least a month off in between jobs. One time, I had an interviewer ask about a 2+ month "gap" in my resume and I ended the interview immediately, saying how their concern over something so trivial tells me enough about their culture/mindset
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Feb 6, 2022 20:59
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Hi thread, I've made it through the interview process without either side presenting an expected salary or salary range. The recruiter says that if they decide to move forward with me, it'll be to make an offer but then it was implied that I should have a desired salary to ask for first and then they would counter. I don't have a lot of interviews that have gotten this far under my belt and I haven't encountered this before at this stage of the process. I've only been offered <x> amount and so on at this point. So this doesn't sound quite right to me? What are good ways to turn this back around if they ask me first? And any good phrases or resources I can get to help with the actual negotiating part? I've not done that yet [e] Well, no offer. Back to looking! Zet fucked around with this message at 22:38 on Feb 7, 2022 |
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Feb 6, 2022 21:03
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Zet posted:Hi thread, I've made it through the interview process without either side presenting an expected salary or salary range. "I look forward to hearing your offer." You don't need to overthink this.
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Feb 6, 2022 21:30
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But that's my default! (For real, thanks.)
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Feb 6, 2022 21:39
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The offer I mentioned recently, I countered their $100k with $120k, and they brought their offer up to 110k! Just goes to show, it really doesn't hurt to ask. Even if you're not holding any cards you never know what they're holding. Macaroni Surprise fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Feb 7, 2022 |
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Feb 7, 2022 18:36
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As others have said, it's only upside. The risk of having an offer pulled due to negotiating is saving you from working for a completely toxic company. Any professional company will simply respond "no" and give you the chance to take it or leave it in the worst case scenario. Always ask.
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Feb 7, 2022 19:49
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Macaroni Surprise posted:The offer I mentioned recently, I countered their $100k with $120k, and they brought their offer up to 110k! congrats you will now make $10k more on an annual basis for the rest of your life, all because you had the stones to say a bigger number
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Feb 7, 2022 21:08
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Got my official offer today to sign and it's as we had negotiated Friday, but the talent acq. person got the starting bonus either wrong, or they upped it almost 3x so I'm very happy.
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Feb 7, 2022 22:36
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Feb 7, 2022 23:37
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6 hours imo. edit: unless this is just “very nice” and not world’s most delayed page snipe. cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Feb 7, 2022 |
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Feb 7, 2022 23:38
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Woolwich Bagnet posted:Got my official offer today to sign and it's as we had negotiated Friday, but the talent acq. person got the starting bonus either wrong, or they upped it almost 3x so I'm very happy.  
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Feb 7, 2022 23:39
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cinci zoo sniper posted:6 hours imo. Yeah, just that. couldn’t remember if there was another, simpler one 
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Feb 8, 2022 00:13
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Kind of an odd one but I'm desperately searching for a new job since my current one I needed just to have a job. Anyways, I'm expecting my first kid this spring and my current company is going to let me do 6 weeks of PTO for it, they're a good company but I am severely underpaid and want to make that cash. Do I tell any prospective employers that I'm expecting a child soon? Not sure what the play is when you're expecting to take a bunch of time off in a few months after starting a new gig lol
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Feb 8, 2022 17:09
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In my experience, most places are not going to give you paid mat/paternity leave before you're there for at least six months. I recommend sticking it out until you get the leave at your current job and look for a new one in that gap. edit: Definitely don't tell anyone about the child if you do want to interview now. They're legally not allowed to discriminate because of it, but they'll find a way to decline for "other reasons" if they know and don't want to deal with it.
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Feb 8, 2022 17:32
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Don't even tell them you're married. When they ask about hobbies say chess club or whatever Being a first time parent, especially in covid, has been like working 3.5-4 day weeks for the first year, especially with daycare closures etc. Ours recently got closed down for 10 days that's almost two weeks. Like the other guy said they can't legally discriminate but "not experienced enough" is a valid reason to turn down your application That said there's something about a company that turns you down because you have a family, you probably don't want to work there as they're probably a sweat shop
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Feb 8, 2022 18:48
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cage-free egghead posted:Kind of an odd one but I'm desperately searching for a new job since my current one I needed just to have a job. Anyways, I'm expecting my first kid this spring and my current company is going to let me do 6 weeks of PTO for it, they're a good company but I am severely underpaid and want to make that cash. You've already applied for FMLA as well? That would be a good idea too
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Feb 8, 2022 19:23
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air- posted:You've already applied for FMLA as well? That would be a good idea too I would have, but I don't qualify as I've only been in my role for 6 months.
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Feb 8, 2022 20:14
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I had an extremely odd interaction just now. Initial screening interview with the CEO of a startup of only a dozen employees and his second question was my salary range. I gave him the boilerplate, he gave me the "doesn't want to waste time" line, I gave him "is there an internal salary range?" and he again repeated his request a little more annoyed. At this point I reconfirmed that I was talking to the president of the company and not some HR rep or a recruiter, and then I told him I would have to get back to him because I didn't have a range prepared. I'm ready to ghost this dude, I've been interviewing for a month and have several more lined up so it doesn't mean much if I have to drop this one. My question is, was how I handled this interaction acceptable? Is this kind of thing normal? Pls rate my handling of salary range conversations because I feel like negotiation is an area I can improve. (not-quite-entry-level software engineer, USA)
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Feb 9, 2022 22:18
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Just drop it, you don’t want to work for someone barking at you when you don’t owe them anything.
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Feb 9, 2022 22:32
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kalel posted:I had an extremely odd interaction just now. Initial screening interview with the CEO of a startup of only a dozen employees and his second question was my salary range. I gave him the boilerplate, he gave me the "doesn't want to waste time" line, I gave him "is there an internal salary range?" and he again repeated his request a little more annoyed. At this point I reconfirmed that I was talking to the president of the company and not some HR rep or a recruiter, and then I told him I would have to get back to him because I didn't have a range prepared. Ask if the role can be performed from Colorado then stick a lawyer on him for fun lol
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Feb 9, 2022 22:42
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I had an interesting interaction with a recruiter this week. He asked for a range, I told him basically "I heard you're not supposed to say a number" and he said, "Fair enough. If I had an offer of $X or $Y, should I send those to you?" The numbers were ones I could see myself accepting so I didn't really know how to respond. After a few seconds, I said something like "I guess just send them regardless of the number. I can't guarantee that I'll accept, since that would be akin to saying a number." We moved on after that. Not sure if that was the right response, but he did send me on to the next interview so he didn't ghost me for it.
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Feb 9, 2022 22:49
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Just drop it, you don’t want to work for someone barking at you when you don’t owe them anything. seconding this. if he's like this now, imagine him holding any actual power over you. e: you asked to gauge your response, and I'd say it was great under the circumstances. you don't even need to follow up.
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Feb 9, 2022 22:55
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Magnetic North posted:I had an interesting interaction with a recruiter this week. He asked for a range, I told him basically "I heard you're not supposed to say a number" and he said, "Fair enough. If I had an offer of $X or $Y, should I send those to you?" The numbers were ones I could see myself accepting so I didn't really know how to respond. After a few seconds, I said something like "I guess just send them regardless of the number. I can't guarantee that I'll accept, since that would be akin to saying a number." We moved on after that. Not sure if that was the right response, but he did send me on to the next interview so he didn't ghost me for it. no one can guarantee accepting any offer, you're significantly overthinking this the response is "I will be delighted to review any firm offer you send over to me when you do so"
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Feb 9, 2022 23:06
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gbut posted:seconding this. if he's like this now, imagine him holding any actual power over you. thank you. my goal is to be as professional as possible even in circumstances where I'm not shown respect by a potential employer. I don't want to be in a situation where I don't have a more elegant answer than "kindly go gently caress yourself"
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Feb 9, 2022 23:14
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bolind posted:Companies, and recruiters, will come up with all sorts of sorry rear end excuses for knowing your current salary. All of them are bullshit. Here’s a list of responses, ordered by snarkiness: That last one is the one you should have said and not felt even slightly bad about it, OP.
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Feb 9, 2022 23:20
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kalel posted:thank you. my goal is to be as professional as possible even in circumstances where I'm not shown respect by a potential employer. I don't want to be in a situation where I don't have a more elegant answer than "kindly go gently caress yourself" Not responding is more professional here than having an answer like that. If you don’t want to leave them hanging, you can always say “I regret to inform you that my circumstances have changed, and I will not be pursuing the opportunity further at this time.” Rolling recruitment coal can have lasting consequences. Especially in a smaller town or profession.
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Feb 9, 2022 23:56
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I've had luck with just saying a super high number (like 200% of what i currently make) and then emphasizing that it could come down for a good fit, e.g. meaningful work, good work life balance, etc.
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Feb 10, 2022 00:22
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Magnetic North posted:I had an interesting interaction with a recruiter this week. He asked for a range, I told him basically "I heard you're not supposed to say a number" and he said, "Fair enough. If I had an offer of $X or $Y, should I send those to you?" The numbers were ones I could see myself accepting so I didn't really know how to respond. After a few seconds, I said something like "I guess just send them regardless of the number. I can't guarantee that I'll accept, since that would be akin to saying a number." We moved on after that. Not sure if that was the right response, but he did send me on to the next interview so he didn't ghost me for it. You do know "Don't say a number" doesn't mean "Don't ever talk numbers" right? If a recruiter gives you a number (Congrats, they gave the first number!) you should probably tell them if those numbers are in the ballpark or not. Saying "Send me anything" basically told the recruiter you'd go lower since if those numbers were too low you would have said so.
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Feb 10, 2022 00:24
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Corla Plankun posted:I've had luck with just saying a super high number (like 200% of what i currently make) and then emphasizing that it could come down for a good fit, e.g. meaningful work, good work life balance, etc. By saying you've had luck do you mean you've gone on to actually take a job with that company? That is what I've done a few times in situations where the company refuses to proceed without my saying a number, and things have proceeded, but I've never once received an offer from such a company that I was at all tempted to accept. It's invariably no offer or a lowball. The correlation between "demands you say a number" and "lowballs you" is very near 1 in my experience, interested if others have different experiences.
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Feb 10, 2022 00:25
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Lockback posted:You do know "Don't say a number" doesn't mean "Don't ever talk numbers" right? If a recruiter gives you a number (Congrats, they gave the first number!) you should probably tell them if those numbers are in the ballpark or not. Saying "Send me anything" basically told the recruiter you'd go lower since if those numbers were too low you would have said so. See, I was thinking that as it happened that it perhaps in this case it was fine to reference a number. Just a hint of number. A soupçon of number. As a treat. But then I thought "I'm a coward and a wretch who should not trust himself to understand if this number is actually adequate for my worth. Oh god, what would the thread think? Quick, evasive flim-flam!" I am not joking; I literally thought of this thread in that deer-in-the-headlights moment. I've been underpaid (but satisfied at time of hire) at the last two jobs and this is the best hiring market I am likely to experience in my entire life. Therefore, I am trying my level best to wring every loving cent out of this one. Unfortunately, I have essentially never done this before, having only discovered this thread after completing my last job search. Hopefully I can be the next success story.
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Feb 10, 2022 00:45
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just chill out, man the idea that you must wring every cent out of a negotiation is going to be very counterproductive
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Feb 10, 2022 00:50
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Magnetic North posted:See, I was thinking that as it happened that it perhaps in this case it was fine to reference a number. Just a hint of number. A soupçon of number. As a treat. But then I thought "I'm a coward and a wretch who should not trust himself to understand if this number is actually adequate for my worth. Oh god, what would the thread think? Quick, evasive flim-flam!" I am not joking; I literally thought of this thread in that deer-in-the-headlights moment. So that's fine, but you will need to counter and respond to a number. "Not saying a number" isn't a thing that the more you do the better off you will be, it's a suggestion to not start a negotiation with a number (though if you have a good line on your market and the company's likely range you can benefit from anchoring high, that's not applicable here). Also in this case the recruiter's game is a little different. They get a % of what you make, so in that sense they are motivated to get you more money, but they want you unload you quick and turn over their stable quickly so they are more inclined to in that situation to get you to take a cheap deal. But they also need to walk up to a company with a price associated here, so their negotiation is a different perspective. In any case, I guess just sit tight now but be ready the next time a number comes your way to respond to it with something, and as always, negotiate.
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Feb 10, 2022 01:02
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This poo poo is too complicated. If only there was a better way...
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Feb 10, 2022 01:12
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:just chill out, man Yeah, if you’re in the right field, willing to stay open to new opportunities, and at least aware of money and consider it during your career moves, the money will come. Money is important but it isn’t everything.
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Feb 10, 2022 01:18
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also like, "this is the best hiring market i will experience in my life" - you have no way of knowing this and by convincing yourself it's true you're putting tremendous pressure on yourself. in any kind of hiring market you need to negotiate and you need to be comfortable selling your skills and capabilities to an employer. focus on the skills and process and not the result or situation and you will do far better (in pretty much anything not just negotiating salary).
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Feb 10, 2022 02:57
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:just chill out, man You'll (probably) never know anyway. I think* it's good to balance the theoretical maximum value of a deal with realizing you're still better off than before. Plus, it's likely you'll be negotiating again and can do a better job next time. *This pov not endorsed by my biz school professor who was ready to put me on a McCarthy era blacklist for mentioning it.
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Feb 10, 2022 03:11
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The reasoning behind "don't say a number" is that most people don't know what they can actually ask for. That's not because they're stupid, but because it's a complex and difficult problem that's orthogonal to their regular job (unless they are a recruiter/HR). What you can get paid depends on what you do, the local market, the global market, your experience, the company's growth, how well you interviewed, the mood of the hiring manager, etc.Corla Plankun posted:I've had luck with just saying a super high number (like 200% of what i currently make) and then emphasizing that it could come down for a good fit, e.g. meaningful work, good work life balance, etc. This doesn't work as well as you might think. If you make $40k and the company was prepared to offer you $90k, you've low-balled yourself (don't say a number!). If you make $200k and the company was prepared to offer you $210k (but could be negotiated up to $260k), you've revealed that you have no clue what a reasonable offer is. However, even though you may be ignorant of how much you could make, you should still have a number in mind for what you'd be happy with. One reason to do that is for when the person you're talking to names a salary range for the job. This is them moving most of the negotiation up before the interview instead of after, and you just follow the same advice of the thread. If you can't handle being asked on the spot, you can say "let me think about it and get back to you" and then email them something like "when we spoke you said the job would pay up to $95k but I'm looking for something in the area of $125k. Do you have flexibility?" The bad side (for you) is that negotiating before the interview means the company has less sunk cost in hiring you. The good side is that you don't bother interviewing with companies who pay poorly and are proud of it (you'll still interview with the ones who lie).
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Feb 10, 2022 18:03
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