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redleader
Aug 18, 2005

Engage according to operational parameters

Atrocious Joe posted:

Do people still get mad if you compare dying of COVID to dying of AIDS

I saw someone dogpiled on twitter about it, but tbf it was a very annoying person

please, it's dying with aids

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Kreeblah
May 17, 2004

INSERT QUACK TO CONTINUE


Taco Defender

Relentlessboredomm posted:

after congress passed the farm bill that made CBD legal, the FDA held a series of hearings ~8 mos later on regulating the burgeoning CBD industry. i was taking notes for the hearings, for my company at the time. every industry person, every state official, every health official, every researcher, every medical doctor, everyone begged the FDA to implement some form of regulations. in just a few months states had already begun to see a huge rise in sketchy CBD products with dosing all over the map and occasionally with straight up amphetamines mixed in. it was a poo poo show.

most people agreed the best path forward would be to look at the various states that had been regulating cannabis and adopt some of their frameworks as a temporary measure while the FDA conducted further research. this way there'd be standard dosing, standard recommendations, lab tests, and some amount of basic oversight.

the FDA, in their infinite wisdom, decided that adopting regulations without complete knowledge of CBD's drug interactions and without sufficiently rigorous testing would put them in a position of regulating something they scarcely understood. now, there was one drug the FDA had approved that used CBD, its called epidiolex. so the fda wasnt as blind and ill informed as they claimed, but still they were adamant that even that clinical drug trial didn't tell them enough to even start to build some regulations.

would they allow the various researchers in attendance who begged them to loosen the requirements to do research some leeway or fast track their work? no. would they consider the harm that would be done in the interim while they pondered? no. would they consider that the longer a drug or substance went entirely unregulated the harder it would be to eventually reign it in as indeed CA discovered trying to incorporate its black and grey markets into its legal cannabis market? yet again, no they would not. instead they were going to stand pat and do nothing so they wouldnt open themselves up to any backlash.

that's when i realized the FDA was so completely overrun by bureacrats practicing aggressive CYA that they'd be absolutely paralyzed in any situation requiring quick decisions reliant on incomplete data. and here we are

Jesus Christ. I mean, this tracks with all of the COVID poo poo, but, still.

gently caress.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

BREADS

Platystemon posted:

The episode about China and the zero COVID Olympics is actually really funny, though, and I was going to quote some of the Times’ Beijing correspondent’s best lines today, but there’s no transcript for that episode even though the paper swears that they post them the next business day. :thunk:

The Grey Lady got around to paying someone to type this up, but all of Chinese is in there for flavor and in the transcript is represented only as “[NON‐ENGLISH SPEECH]. Laffo.

They have this weird framing that Xi Jinping has to fight for zero COVID because he mishandled the initial outbreak, and not because it’s the right thing to do and it’s all upsides for ~the economy~ if you command a functional state capable of achieving it. I’m not going to subject the thread to the whole thing. It’s right near the top and it’s bonkers.

Even this NYT correspondent with her Hot Takes shuts down the idea that China is hiding millions of cases.

quote:

Amy Qin
And I think this combination of this high tech plus just sheer manpower really made the government’s zero-Covid policy a huge success.

Sabrina Tavernise
Meaning that there was zero Covid in China?

Amy Qin
Well, for a long time, there were many days in which they reported zero locally transmitted cases. And maybe sometimes they would find a few, but for the most part, there really was not really that much virus. People in China were able to live largely normal lives. I mean, they had to wear masks, they still had to measure their temperatures when they went into places. But for the most part, there really was very little virus in the country, as far as we know.

If you look at the graph of Covid deaths and cases in China, you see a big spike in January to April 2020, but then after that, it basically just flatlines. I mean, if you even look at the death toll today, China has only had 4,600 or so deaths from the coronavirus.

Sabrina Tavernise
Wow, that’s crazy. I mean, China has a billion people.

Amy Qin
Yeah.

Sabrina Tavernise
The United States has 330 million, and has had a million deaths. So —

Amy Qin
Mhm.

Sabrina Tavernise
— is that even possible, that number?

Amy Qin
I think so. I mean, obviously there was a lot made in the beginning about was China accurately reporting the number of cases and deaths in Wuhan, but after Wuhan, the incentives really changed. Officials were really incentivized to actually find the cases, and not to cover them up. Because if the outbreaks happened on their watch, that’s when they got into trouble.

Sabrina Tavernise
Hm.

Amy Qin
And I think that maybe there were some cases that were missed, but I think if there were a lot more deaths, we would know that. We would know that from the hospital being overwhelmed. We would hear that. And we just haven’t heard that.

Sabrina Tavernise
Hm. And what about vaccines?

Amy Qin
Well, China’s actually developed its own vaccines. And there’s been some questions about the efficacy, but they’ve been really successful with the uptake. They’ve gotten actually over 85% of their population vaccinated now.

Sabrina Tavernise
So it sounds like Xi’s zero Covid gamble really did pay off, and it paid off reputationally, too. Like, it looked like he was in charge, and he was pretty good at handling this big, complicated public health challenge.

Amy Qin
Definitely. I think that the Chinese government has really tried to hold up its success in controlling the coronavirus as validation for its model of governance. And they’ve really harped on that in their messaging to the citizens, saying look at the chaos of the West, and then look at us at home. We have a relatively normal life. Our economy is still going. We haven’t had these crazy lockdowns. This is China’s success. This is the success of our system.

:china:

They’re still horny for China’s failure, mind.

quote:

Sabrina Tavernise
OK, tell me what happened after the Covid variants started showing up in China.

Amy Qin
So we started to see these small outbreaks appearing around the country. They were oftentimes coming in via travelers who were traveling to China, and they were infecting airport workers because the virus was more transmissible, so it was just harder to stop. But China basically just continued to throw its zero-Covid playbook at it. They instituted snap lockdowns. If they found a few cases in a city, they might lockdown the entire city and institute mass testing.

Sabrina Tavernise
Wow.

Amy Qin
So it’s really disruptive. It’s really disrupting people’s lives.

They tell some funny stories, and then:

quote:

Amy Qin
So it’s just created a lot of uncertainty, and you’re definitely starting to hear more grumbling from people about these policies. We saw in December there was an entire city of 13 million people was shut down over a Delta outbreak. They were confined to their apartments for weeks. They stopped traffic on the streets. They couldn’t travel in and out of the city. It was pretty chaotic. And into January, we saw these lockdowns continue. At one point, there were more than 20 million people in China under lockdown in various cities.

Sabrina Tavernise
Wow.

Amy Qin
In one city, they had found three asymptomatic cases, and they locked down an entire city of 1.2 million people.

Sabrina Tavernise
OK, so it sounds like the variants put some real strain on China’s policy of no Covid.

My god, can you imagine that? One point two million people locked down?

That’s almost as many as America has put in the ground.

The episode ends with:

quote:

Amy Qin
Well, I think in the short term, it’ll be a victory for him. There have been a lot of doubters, a lot of people questioning whether he can pull this off, and whether all these measures will work. But I think in the longer term, it’s more of an open question. You know, China has really betted that the virus is going to go away, and we are realizing that it’s just not. There’s going to be more variants. It’s going to get more transmissible.

And so it’s not really clear that a zero-Covid policy is going to be sustainable in the future. You’re going to need to have more effective vaccines, and you’re going to have to think about how you move this population of 1.4 billion people that has basically no immunity to the virus back into normal society. And eventually, Xi Jinping is going to have to figure out how to get people to the point where they feel comfortable living with the virus, just like everyone else is trying to figure that out right now, too.

The only time that The New York Times can acknowledge that this poo poo is getting worse is when they’re lusting for Chinese death.

Trixie Hardcore
Jul 1, 2006

Placeholder.

Atrocious Joe posted:

Do people still get mad if you compare dying of COVID to dying of AIDS

I saw someone dogpiled on twitter about it, but tbf it was a very annoying person

I think ppl still get mad if you act like the government treated both pandemics the same because it’s a dumb take but I don’t think ppl get mad outside of Twitter if you’re trying to compare things like pneumonia or opportunistic infections or stuff like that.

WrasslorMonkey
Mar 5, 2012

Steve Yun posted:



how did I end up here?

silicone thrills
Jan 9, 2008

I paint things
:( man she's one of my favorite tweeters


https://twitter.com/hilaryagro/status/1492826681949761540?t=adbpM7Mmi_r5xRna0BXeZA&s=19

Hope her baby turns out ok

The Oldest Man
Jul 28, 2003

Platystemon posted:


The only time that The New York Times can acknowledge that this poo poo is getting worse is when they’re lusting for Chinese death.

The most laffo thing is the idea is that the society of 1.4 billion people going about their normal rear end every day lives except for the couple of weeks a year 1% of them need to be in quarantine are the ones who need to reintegrate into normal life, normal being the loving plague lands where I need a respirator to safely buy cabbage, and to avoid lifting heavy objects during the certain times of the year when a herniated disc could go untreated because the hospitals are collapsing, rather than the other way around.

Asproigerosis
Mar 13, 2013

insufferable
Lol the bizarre cog dis of China telling it's citizens look at the west and their awful lockdowns. Trying to do some weird thing where they put words in the mouth of China saying woah we're tyrannical communists but even your western covid lockdowns were too much for us, trust us you fine readers of NYT the lockdowns were very bad for you!

China would routinely legit lock down entire cities of millions for a couple of cases. People having to stay in their homes and get food delivered by the military.

Yeah those brutal lockdowns that happened two years ago for a couple weeks when you had to learn about sour dough starters and tiger king.

The Oldest Man
Jul 28, 2003

Trixie Hardcore posted:

I think ppl still get mad if you act like the government treated both pandemics the same because it’s a dumb take but I don’t think ppl get mad outside of Twitter if you’re trying to compare things like pneumonia or opportunistic infections or stuff like that.

I think the part that is more likely to be an accurate comparison is the decades of suffering and early death for people who now have a virally induced syndrome that the government can't acknowledge exists on a large scale, people who at best will be largely ignored by the medical establishment and who at worst will be told that they are responsible for their own condition.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

BREADS
The same NYT podcast did the thing today where they think that “Alpha” is the ancestral strain of SARS‐CoV‐2.

And, like, yeah, WHO’s naming scheme is really bad and I’ve seen quite a few people make that mistake, once or twice even on this own forum, but aren’t you supposed to be the paper of record with experts and editors and poo poo?

They also admit that our vaccines aren’t sterilizing, in discussing the problem that veterinary vaccines aren’t, either, but the same reporter is gobsmacked that the simple country boy isn’t interested in her vaccine status.

Platystemon fucked around with this message at 08:18 on Feb 14, 2022

Asproigerosis
Mar 13, 2013

insufferable
I don't think anyone in the trump/biden admin burst into laughter at a reporter asking about people dying to covid, but I can't say for sure.

Zugzwang
Jan 2, 2005

You have a kind of sick desperation in your laugh.


Ramrod XTreme

Platystemon posted:

The same NYT podcast did the thing today where they think that “Alpha” is the ancestral strain of SARS‐CoV‐2.

And, like, yeah, WHO’s naming scheme is really bad and I’ve seen quite a few people make that mistake, once or twice even on this own forum, but aren’t you supposed to be the paper of record with experts and editors and poo poo?
Someone may have corrected them at some point, but covid is associated with memory loss.

mediaphage
Mar 22, 2007

Excuse me, pardon me, sheer perfection coming through
yeah i always laugh when i hear western media breathlessly reporting how unsustainable china is being and how they need to get back to normal. what’s normal, some more international travel? i reckon most of china has been way more normal than we have the past couple of years

zetamind2000
Nov 6, 2007

I'm an alien.


Don Jr. testing the waters for a 2024 run

Trixie Hardcore
Jul 1, 2006

Placeholder.

The Oldest Man posted:

I think the part that is more likely to be an accurate comparison is the decades of suffering and early death for people who now have a virally induced syndrome that the government can't acknowledge exists on a large scale, people who at best will be largely ignored by the medical establishment and who at worst will be told that they are responsible for their own condition.

Even that feels like an unnecessary comparison because you have to downplay the lethality of HIV and the government’s malice and glee in refusing to acknowledge its existence. If you got HIV at the beginning of the epidemic you were dead, there were no treatments, you might not be able to even get end of life care due to stigma, if you were outed for having HIV it could ruin what was left of the rest of your life and the government wouldn’t even acknowledge it’s existence. The government absolutely acknowledges covid exists on a large scale, the medical community has both the political will and the funding to research and develop covid treatments, you wont be refused care or treatment for covid, you won’t be fired if it’s discovered you’ve had covid, you won’t be stigmatized by society at large for having covid, covid isn’t an automatic death sentence. Like you can make a comparison but maybe not a good or appropriate comparison.

mediaphage
Mar 22, 2007

Excuse me, pardon me, sheer perfection coming through

Trixie Hardcore posted:

Even that feels like an unnecessary comparison because you have to downplay the lethality of HIV and the government’s malice and glee in refusing to acknowledge its existence. If you got HIV at the beginning of the epidemic you were dead, there were no treatments, you might not be able to even get end of life care due to stigma, if you were outed for having HIV it could ruin what was left of the rest of your life and the government wouldn’t even acknowledge it’s existence. The government absolutely acknowledges covid exists on a large scale, the medical community has both the political will and the funding to research and develop covid treatments, you wont be refused care or treatment for covid, you won’t be fired if it’s discovered you’ve had covid, you won’t be stigmatized by society at large for having covid, covid isn’t an automatic death sentence. Like you can make a comparison but maybe not a good or appropriate comparison.

great post.

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004

silicone thrills posted:

Random comment here but gently caress i feel like take out burgers have totally gone to poo poo. I've got a couple of local spots like elliot bay and sunis where their burgers used to be good but lately they are always just burnt to gently caress or just not good in general and I dont know if its because my own cooking has gotten consistently good or because covid has eroded out the brains of every person still working in food service so poo poo is legit just burning on grills. :( If its the later, i really feel bad.

Idk why anyone goes to loving eat out anymore tbh. The only take out food that's gotten better/stayed the same for me is getting take out orders from good sushi spots.

Pizza at least is really hard to mess up, even intentionally. The pizza oven pulls it through the machine at a fixed rate of ~5 min/pie.

We will get drive through burgers once a week out of neccessity, and take-out chinese once a month, and both are really bad now, if you can even get them to get your order right. I am half convinced that the food service industry is going to collapse due to a negative feedback loop of bad food -> fewer order -> less money to hire quality workers -> more bad food. We used to do take-out twice a week

We are really tired of pizza, even good pizza at this point, though

You're right though, take-out sushi is quite good still, for whatever weird reason

Salt Fish
Sep 11, 2003

Cybernetic Crumb
Comparing covid to aids isn't about pulling HIV down to covid's level. It's about pointing out the absurdity of saying "there's no way we'll be wearing masks forever". Yes, things can actually change and prevention can become permanent, you don't just get to stomp your feet and announce you're done with a disease, and being endemic doesn't mean mild.

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004

Platystemon posted:

Breaking news: GBS thread closed because


Gildiss
Aug 24, 2010

Grimey Drawer

Gildiss posted:

Lmao 36k cases today in South Korea and I am here at a packed wedding hall because Korea can't stop won't stop.

At least the startling numbers and one the of friends we were going to drive getting omicron'd changed our mind to skip the buffet and wear double KN94s.

Fingers crossed I can do some matrix bullet time dodging.

Well we made it through untouched! Unsymptomatic at least anyway.

Meanwhile
Number go up!

New COVID-19 cases over 50,000 for 5th day amid worries over further spike
http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20220214000180

And at least one dude has a brain left. Too bad he retired!

Test, trace, treat must go on, says ex-Korea CDC chief.
Flu comparisons misleading, omicron likely as severe as original Wuhan virus.
http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20220211000665&ACE_SEARCH=1


It also wiped out a healthly teen.

S. Korea reports first teen COVID-19 death
http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_national/1030095.html

Tzen
Sep 11, 2001

empty whippet box posted:

lol something which is killing 2400+ people per day in america right now, right this second, is not worth having even a GBS thread because nothing noteworthy is happening

lol

lmao

awooooooooo(doomer howl)

Cup Runneth Over
Aug 8, 2009

She said life's
Too short to worry
Life's too long to wait
It's too short
Not to love everybody
Life's too long to hate


dragon_pamcake posted:

Work just dropped its mask requirement in the middle of the day and you'd have thought loving armistice had been declared.

I'm respirator crew but people are already asking me why I'm still wearing the Bane mask.

I know it's wrong but I can't help thinking these people should just be left to die. There's no helping some people.

Cup Runneth Over
Aug 8, 2009

She said life's
Too short to worry
Life's too long to wait
It's too short
Not to love everybody
Life's too long to hate


Platystemon posted:

The same NYT podcast did the thing today where they think that “Alpha” is the ancestral strain of SARS‐CoV‐2.

And, like, yeah, WHO’s naming scheme is really bad and I’ve seen quite a few people make that mistake, once or twice even on this own forum, but aren’t you supposed to be the paper of record with experts and editors and poo poo?

They also admit that our vaccines aren’t sterilizing, in discussing the problem that veterinary vaccines aren’t, either, but the same reporter is gobsmacked that the simple country boy isn’t interested in her vaccine status.

NYT doesn't know poo poo about COVID and anyone with a functioning brain for journalism has clearly fled their halls years ago.

TheGoonspiracist
Jul 24, 2002

The terrible secret of space... :stonk: the Mods, they knew!

Kreeblah posted:

Jesus Christ. I mean, this tracks with all of the COVID poo poo, but, still.

gently caress.

They are trying to push the spray in Idaho before its even legal.

For MS only...

https://apnews.com/01e0eb2fafa5e1c4bf2d83536658da24

Harik
Sep 9, 2001

From the hard streets of Moscow
First dog to touch the stars


Plaster Town Cop

Hadlock posted:

Can I get a link to said candles?!?

they've gone downhill in the last two years, the new ones aren't scented at all

Cup Runneth Over
Aug 8, 2009

She said life's
Too short to worry
Life's too long to wait
It's too short
Not to love everybody
Life's too long to hate


Platystemon posted:

The Grey Lady got around to paying someone to type this up, but all of Chinese is in there for flavor and in the transcript is represented only as “[NON‐ENGLISH SPEECH]. Laffo.

They have this weird framing that Xi Jinping has to fight for zero COVID because he mishandled the initial outbreak, and not because it’s the right thing to do and it’s all upsides for ~the economy~ if you command a functional state capable of achieving it. I’m not going to subject the thread to the whole thing. It’s right near the top and it’s bonkers.

Even this NYT correspondent with her Hot Takes shuts down the idea that China is hiding millions of cases.

:china:

They’re still horny for China’s failure, mind.

They tell some funny stories, and then:

My god, can you imagine that? One point two million people locked down?

That’s almost as many as America has put in the ground.

The episode ends with:

The only time that The New York Times can acknowledge that this poo poo is getting worse is when they’re lusting for Chinese death.

"85% of the population is vaccinated"
"this population with no immunity"

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

Cup Runneth Over posted:

I know it's wrong but I can't help thinking these people should just be left to die. There's no helping some people.

in much the same way that "Trump might have been better on COVID, but I'm still not telling you to vote for him", there are some people who are going to kill or maim themselves with COVID of their own accord, but I still wouldn't actively wish for them to catch it

Angryhead
Apr 4, 2009

Don't call my name
Don't call my name
Alejandro




Trixie Hardcore posted:

Some people I know who were wearing cloth masks freaked out at the beginning of the year and started wearing N95s and now they’re wearing no masks and I really wonder how that makes sense to them. Like they definitely thought the virus was in the air two weeks ago… so :shrug:

I truly wonder this too.

A mix of just giving up, "Y person doesn't wear a mask and hasn't gotten it yet X person always wears a mask and they still got it!" anecdotes, no critical thinking, cause and effect being nigh impossible to parse for a virus as widespread as omicron...

Cup Runneth Over
Aug 8, 2009

She said life's
Too short to worry
Life's too long to wait
It's too short
Not to love everybody
Life's too long to hate


Trixie Hardcore posted:

Some people I know who were wearing cloth masks freaked out at the beginning of the year and started wearing N95s and now they’re wearing no masks and I really wonder how that makes sense to them. Like they definitely thought the virus was in the air two weeks ago… so :shrug:

It got hard and boring and it's tiring so they stopped. They're just done thinking or talking about COVID, okay? They want to go back to normal already. Just leave them alone.

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004

The Oldest Man posted:

I haven't seen any studies on it yet but anecdotally I've heard of a fair number of long covid suicides. It's the perfect storm of being maimed in a way that destroys your life and simultaneously being gaslit or blamed for it.

I think a friend of mine is getting close to this, sadly. She just picked up covid a second time, was already struggling through long-covid symptoms since last october; most of her peer group is anti-vax and/or covid denier

Tzen
Sep 11, 2001

Steve Yun posted:

alright I’ll play your game you rogue


based

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

Angryhead posted:

I truly wonder this too.

A mix of just giving up, "Y person doesn't wear a mask and hasn't gotten it yet X person always wears a mask and they still got it!" anecdotes, no critical thinking, cause and effect being nigh impossible to parse for a virus as widespread as omicron...

my wife started watching "Sister Wives" and part of the episode I heard in the background was tension in the family between the patriarch that wanted everyone to follow certain rules about COVID, and his other wives and their families, who resent not being able to see whoever they want

as far as I can tell, the mentality is that "it's what the government tells us we should be doing, so I will follow that [and no further]". If you just ape whatever the CDC says (or what the TV tells you is what the CDC is saying, etc.), then you can be wearing an N95 one week, and then dropping it the next. It's only incongruous if you understand WHY you're wearing the mask, but if don't understand, and never tried to understand (and maybe that's not always someone's fault), then there's no contradiction to be formed in your mind.

Chamale
Jul 11, 2010

I'm helping!



https://twitter.com/tom_tanuki/status/1492355426016722944

Harik
Sep 9, 2001

From the hard streets of Moscow
First dog to touch the stars


Plaster Town Cop

The Oldest Man posted:

I think the part that is more likely to be an accurate comparison is the decades of suffering and early death for people who now have a virally induced syndrome that the government can't acknowledge exists on a large scale, people who at best will be largely ignored by the medical establishment and who at worst will be told that they are responsible for their own condition.

weird how it would be unreasonable to tell those people that their comments were responsible for the beating they received. i mean, sure, i'd point and laugh at them "you loving said WHAT to a long covid sufferer in open biden america?" but the libs & chuds take a dim view of that sort of thing.

Flavahbeast
Jul 21, 2001



hail nurgle

Failed Imagineer
Sep 22, 2018

Lol, it's like when Homer gets kicked out of the house and within hours he's filthy and dressed in rags

Shiroc
May 16, 2009

Sorry I'm late

Platystemon posted:

The only time that The New York Times can acknowledge that this poo poo is getting worse is when they’re lusting for Chinese death.

If only anyone could work why covid isn't going away and why it keeps threatening China's successes or how travelers keep showing up with covid. Oh well no time to think about that gotta get to the Bee's to hang with the bros.

Harik
Sep 9, 2001

From the hard streets of Moscow
First dog to touch the stars


Plaster Town Cop

Flavahbeast posted:

hail nurgle
never fails to crack me up

also that two nations armed forces couldn't do anything about the terrorists but a couple dozen annoyed neighborhood watch stopped the convy in its tracks

zetamind2000
Nov 6, 2007

I'm an alien.


Treating pink eye with herbal ointment sounds like a good way to continue having pink eye

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Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

BREADS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08uhNMReiI0

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