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I mean, Russia could have just agreed to the border control first clause Ukraine wanted and be done with Minsk-2. But Putin clearly had different plans for the region.
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Feb 26, 2022 02:33
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Tigey posted:Most likely to try to take some heat off of Russia and provide extra 'legitimacy' by having other nations join the effort. Basically like the Coalition of the Willing during the Iraq War. That he wants a counter to Lithuanian involvement seems reasonable, or in other words, yes, he's gone full Tonto.
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Feb 26, 2022 02:33
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Telsa Cola posted:It would be a pretty decent PR move for Russia to present survivors after the whole mythos was created. So I don't really buy it. yeah. i think its real. its too raw/real to be some mock up propaganda piece. like the way the dude says "should i tell them to gently caress off" sounds legit to me. you can tell he is scared and tired and knows this is the end but he puts on a brave face. you can here alot in a voice.
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Feb 26, 2022 02:34
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punishedkissinger posted:this has to be the most idiotic imperial adventure in our lifetimes right? I don’t think Russia is even capable of fighting them for 20 years them surrendering the country to Azov Battalion, so no Afghanistan is still worse.
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Feb 26, 2022 02:34
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Comstar posted:Russian attack heliocopter blowing up Ukranian AA platform and trucks. No bodies visible. Holy poo poo what is this reality we live in. loving TikTok videos of war violence complete with a soundtrack. I want off this planet.
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Feb 26, 2022 02:34
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Why are troops being requested from Kazakhstan at all?
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Feb 26, 2022 02:35
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I remember seeing snippets from a livestream of one of the soldiers on Snake Island which cut off just as the first shell hit, and showed part of the radio communications between the visible ship and the commanding officer. e: I found part of the livestream without any shelling https://twitter.com/ASLuhn/status/1497129344887521280 fuctifino fucked around with this message at 02:38 on Feb 26, 2022 |
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Feb 26, 2022 02:35
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punishedkissinger posted:this has to be the most idiotic imperial adventure in our lifetimes right? Eh, I still think it's Iraq, just because the U.S. had an incredible unipolar moment, and we just flat-out squandered it on the dumbest made-up poo poo. With Russia, it's grotesque and it's really stupid, but it's also the type of stupid poo poo that one sees from dying empires throughout history. They were already on a downward slope.
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Feb 26, 2022 02:36
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OddObserver posted:The specific "cookie" Sinteres keeps mentions is also not something that the Ukrainian government could legally agree to, too. Yeah I had concessions in mind for Russia to make in return as well, but I don't want to get hit with a probe for repeating myself too much on this stuff when obviously it's too late for pre-war diplomacy now. And hey maybe Putin really would have rejected any offer anyway, we'll probably never know.
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Feb 26, 2022 02:36
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Omon Ra posted:Yeah, this is absolutely a "masks off" moment for zealous American leftists. No better than the extreme right, just bloodthirsty, clueless morons all around. I saw three dumbass tweets and I'm ready to poo poo myself and say the stupidest possible thing.
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Feb 26, 2022 02:37
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punishedkissinger posted:this has to be the most idiotic imperial adventure in our lifetimes right? If it gets to the insurgency stage its going to be pretty bad because theres going to be a poo poo ton of very wealthy nations extremely close by with a land route that won't think twice about supplying folks.
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Feb 26, 2022 02:37
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TulliusCicero posted:NATO sure seems to be doing a lot of troop movements right now onto the border. They are just gonna deploy to Poland, go to the pub one night and pretend to be surprised when the hardware is gone by the time they go back.. (one can wish)
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Feb 26, 2022 02:38
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Sinteres posted:I don't want to rehash the pre-war position too much because we can't go back in time and we're discouraged from repeating ourselves here, but I still think Russia would have taken half a cookie for free instead of having to fight and endure crippling sanctions to get the whole thing. Endless appeasement isn’t progressive nor anti-war.
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Feb 26, 2022 02:38
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Sinteres posted:Yeah I had concessions in mind for Russia to make in return as well, but I don't want to get hit with a probe for repeating myself too much on this stuff when obviously it's too late for pre-war diplomacy now. And hey maybe Putin really would have rejected any offer anyway, we'll probably never know. There is no evidence that Putin would have accepted anything other than complete capitulation. Stop deluding yourself.
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Feb 26, 2022 02:39
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Up until right before the invasion I kind of assumed some deal with Putin was possible. Then he gave that rambling nationalist list of grievances about how Imperial Russia was carved up by the communists and Ukraine isn't a real country. It's the kind of thing you hear assholes say about Palestinians, including citing fringe groups to somehow justify indiscriminate punishment.
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Feb 26, 2022 02:40
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Telsa Cola posted:If it gets to the insurgency stage its going to be pretty bad because theres going to be a poo poo ton of very wealthy nations extremely close by with a land route that won't think twice about supplying folks. Do you remember the 70s/80s where Irish-Americans kept fundraising for the IRA. Well boston’s got a land border with Belfast now.
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Feb 26, 2022 02:40
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fuctifino posted:I remember seeing snippets from a livestream of one of the soldiers on Snake Island which cut off just as the first shell hit, and showed part of the radio communications between the visible ship and the commanding officer.  .....RIP gods among men.
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Feb 26, 2022 02:41
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This is my TEFL trainer's hometown: https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1497383637314060300?s=20&t=OdvJoOBHKMYSGA0xWC0_sA
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Feb 26, 2022 02:41
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Ive known 2 CIA agents and they were both anti social wierdos who as kids probably thought of blowing uo a school
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Feb 26, 2022 02:41
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BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:Do you remember the 70s/80s where Irish-Americans kept fundraising for the IRA. Well boston’s got a land border with Belfast now. I was born in the mid 90s so no, lol. But I can see it leading to things like Insurgents "sneaking" across the Polish border and "stealing" some laid out supplies.
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Feb 26, 2022 02:42
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khwarezm posted:https://twitter.com/phl43/status/1497326008806125569 Not that I have seen, but this person essentially says that there’s no absolute evidence to prove it. In absence of them having a way to get radio backups from Russian navy, there’s likewise then no evidence to disprove it. Consequently, what normal people should do is avoid writing 875 page thesis on the geostrategic implications of that verbal argument, and just move on. To discuss it at lengths serves no purpose other than to hear yourself talking. As far as I know, the most relevant footage from that island that we have is a Ukrainian soldiers TikTok live stream cutting out shortly after something significantly larger than a firearm starts shooting in the soldier’s direction. Soldier ducks, and stream cuts out.
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Feb 26, 2022 02:42
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Grammarchist posted:Up until right before the invasion I kind of assumed some deal with Putin was possible. Then he gave that rambling nationalist list of grievances about how Imperial Russia was carved up by the communists and Ukraine isn't a real country. It's the kind of thing you hear assholes say about Palestinians, including citing fringe groups to somehow justify indiscriminate punishment. Right, Putin laid out bare what his goals. He simply doesn’t recognize Ukraine as an independent nation. Everything since that tracks with that mindset.
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Feb 26, 2022 02:42
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Telsa Cola posted:If it gets to the insurgency stage its going to be pretty bad because theres going to be a poo poo ton of very wealthy nations extremely close by with a land route that won't think twice about supplying folks. It seems that this is almost certainly going to happen though, right? They were conscripting men at the border and handing out AKs to civvies like candybars from what I've seen.
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Feb 26, 2022 02:43
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Omon Ra posted:Yeah, this is absolutely a "masks off" moment for zealous American leftists. No better than the extreme right, just bloodthirsty, clueless morons all around. It shouldn't come as a surprise, those leftists have always been salivating for a revolution to overthrow American hegemony and Putin has provided it on the premise of Anti-Nazism by removing from power a Jewish president who's family survived the Holocaust. Eastern European leftists don't see it that way though: https://twitter.com/vanillatary/status/1497038849926516740
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Feb 26, 2022 02:44
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ZombieLenin posted:I know Putin has gone from demanding unconditional surrender, to begging Ukraine's military to stage a coup, to "lets talk." I also know Russia failed to take Kiev spectacularly on day one and lost one of it's best infantry units in the process, I know they've failed to even secure air superiority despite an overwhelming disparity in fighter aircraft, I know they've been repulsed repeatedly outside Kharkov, and have now asked (and been rejected by) Kazakhstan to commit troops in Ukraine, and I've seen dozens of destroyed Russian tanks, APCs, and helicopters... Let’s also point out, for all the US’s issues, it’s military is battle hardened after literally decades of fighting. We have no absence of experience. There is no modern rival to the US war machine.
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Feb 26, 2022 02:44
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punishedkissinger posted:It seems that this is almost certainly going to happen though, right? They were conscripting men at the border and handing out AKs to civvies like candybars from what I've seen. To clarify thats the Ukrainian goverment handing out the guns, but they are gunning for that and it looks like from what reports are making their way to this thread a lot of civilians are currently in that mindset.
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Feb 26, 2022 02:44
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punishedkissinger posted:It seems that this is almost certainly going to happen though, right? They were conscripting men at the border and handing out AKs to civvies like candybars from what I've seen. Yeah. Whoever gets stuck on occupation duty probably won’t have a fun time.
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Feb 26, 2022 02:45
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Grammarchist posted:It implies the U.S. has more support coming, making Russia's invasion more expensive, making the prospect of peace possibly more desirable for Putin. Maybe enough that he'll accept fewer conditions to whatever his idea of "neutrality" is. Also, if the US is "against" a negotiation it gives Putin an out to say, I did something the United States didn't want to do. I am watching CNN at the moment and take with the grains of salt you have but their military experts think that Russia was expecting a quick and decisive victory too. They were saying their tactics were to decapitate the government and not have to besiege any major cities. Now they are in a position where they have to siege a city and the numbers of Russian military to siege an occupy are low. Now again, this is an American station and American analyst so they might be a little skewed. Also, to add to the other conversation we were having on certain leftists and their reaction to frame this as an American problem, is that quite frankly their world starts at American bad, therefore anything that works against America is good. They don't really have compelling frameworks that work in a situation like this so, it's what they're leaning on as their crutch.
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Feb 26, 2022 02:45
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BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:People have been saying that Russia apparently put its worst troops first and saves the good ones for later which makes no loving sense to me but I’m not a military guy and what part of Putin’s strategy does make sense anyway This pretty much should tell you all you need to know. The Russian soldiers involved were from the 11th Guards Air Assault Brigade. This is elite airborne infantry. The closest American analog I can think is that this would be like sending in part of the US 82nd Airborne Division and then having those soldiers get their asses kicked by Ukrainian national guard.
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Feb 26, 2022 02:45
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Smeef posted:Is this an unorthodox view? Kermit Roosevelt’s memoirs of it make it seem like a total farce, made only funnier because he’s oblivious to it. Unfortunately out of sheer luck it got the outcome they wanted, and they took all the wrong lessons from that. I mean there was a major motion picture that asserted in the opening crawl that the CIA single-handedly overthrew the last democratically elected leader of Iran. Which was probably just the writers taking the CIA advisors assertions at face value.
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Feb 26, 2022 02:46
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Why are troops being requested from Kazakhstan at all? Because (if you’re Putin) they’re your puppet, so why shouldn’t their troops die instead of yours? (Good for Kazakhstan telling Russia to pound sand - if anything, maybe this mess will make some of the states currently under Russia’s thumb a little more willing to try to get out.)
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Feb 26, 2022 02:46
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Please excuse me if this is old news (kinda, it seems things today have moved fast) but there's been nearly 2000 posts since I last read this thread yesterday. Am I correct in understanding that things have not been going well for Russia today and Ukraine has continued to have a good defense? I see posts on this page Of Putin asking Kazakhstan for help. The last I saw was large convoys entering Kyiv so going from that to latest updates of Russian pleas for help from neighbors is surprising. I was happy to see citizens of Georgia out in large numbers and protesting the war after what happened to their country as well. What has really blown my mind however is seeing on Twitter that apparently Putin has now threatened Finland and Sweden regarding NATO membership?! I think that given all his past actions it was obvious that he would not stop at Ukraine, but to see him openly threaten two countries (and if he's struggling in Ukraine, how does he ever hope to invade Finland? They have a highly advanced and experienced military as far as I know? Not just with troops but artillery, tanks and aircraft) really does bolster the feeling that something is wrong and he is at least somewhat unhinged and not a rational actor at this point. I saw some news of US and NATO moving a lot of stuff to NATO countries in the region but I very much hope that Finland and Sweden do join, because it's clearly time to take a stand before things spiral even further, imo. The PM of Finland has said that Russia's threats will have no effect on if they decide to join or not, but I do not know Sweden's position aside from them having been very tense because of Russia for a long time now and fears surrounding Gotland being occupied due to Russian movements in the area. From what I can tell Finland is in a good position to join NATO given their military, and only bureaucracy would slow their membership down? I don't know how well Sweden is positioned to join. Putin has now threatened two other countries with military action with one of the same excuses he used as a pretext to invade Ukraine, so I hope that Finland & Sweden can somehow be fast-tracked in NATO membership if they desire which at this point I think that they would be foolish to decline. Is it looking likely that they'll be able to attain membership? Reading news about the US and France providing so much support to Ukraine while also starting to get setup in NATO countries in the region is also very reassuring. I think this may all be leading up to the Putin problem finally being addressed one way or another (even if he loses power at home and is replaced by someone less dangerous) I just hope that the man doesn't do something insane on his way down, because threatening Finland & Sweden sounds very desperate, but also the actions of a man who has lost his grip of reality. Surely now is the perfect time for everyone to come together and challenge him?
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Feb 26, 2022 02:46
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khwarezm posted:https://twitter.com/phl43/status/1497326008806125569 Well, what the article is saying is that we don't know if that was literally the final words of garrison and how long after they were attacked, killed and/or captured, or surrendered. The article doesn't seem to call the authenticity of the recording into question, but says that part of it might have been grafted onto other videos filmed by the garrison from the island (and they say that as far as they can tell that's actually the island and actually a russian warship). Seems to me like it's pretty easy for a tweet to sensationalize the claims in their summary of an article like that.
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Feb 26, 2022 02:47
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Omon Ra posted:Yeah, this is absolutely a "masks off" moment for zealous American leftists. No better than the extreme right, just bloodthirsty, clueless morons all around. Please don't make generalizations like this. It's extremely unfair; most zealous American leftists don't support Putin, and we're definitely better than the extreme right.
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Feb 26, 2022 02:47
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Betty Wight posted:Let’s also point out, for all the US’s issues, it’s military is battle hardened after literally decades of fighting. We have no absence of experience. There is no modern rival to the US war machine. I think the US still is without peer in conventional military power (aside from very specific conditions like right in China's backyard maybe), but the decades of experience stuff is a bit of an overstatement given how little of that has been against actual militaries. Russia has bombing people without AA experience too.
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Feb 26, 2022 02:47
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ZombieLenin posted:This pretty much should tell you all you need to know. The Russian soldiers involved were from the 11th Guards Air Assault Brigade. This is elite airborne infantry. The closest American analog I can think is that this would be like sending in part of the US 82nd Airborne Division and then having those soldiers get their asses kicked by Ukrainian national guard. Pretty sure it was Ukrainian Spetsnaz
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Feb 26, 2022 02:47
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Majorian posted:Eh, I still think it's Iraq, just because the U.S. had an incredible unipolar moment, and we just flat-out squandered it on the dumbest made-up poo poo. With Russia, it's grotesque and it's really stupid, but it's also the type of stupid poo poo that one sees from dying empires throughout history. They were already on a downward slope. Also, we were still in Afghanistan which whether you agree or disagree if we should of been there should of been the focus of our military, not Iraq which was a total war of choice and had nothing to do with terrorism.
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Feb 26, 2022 02:48
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https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1497381890386497543?s=20&t=mDiEV7BHn7G5XKl_uhtbtQ Sounds like a LOT of fighting around the Kiev Zoo  Maybe an ammunition dump going off?
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Feb 26, 2022 02:48
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Kalman posted:(Good for Kazakhstan telling Russia to pound sand - if anything, maybe this mess will make some of the states currently under Russia’s thumb a little more willing to try to get out.) Jesus Christ, puppets aren't what they used to be. Why back in my day....
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Feb 26, 2022 02:48
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Paladinus posted:I'm still following what's going on in Kazakhstan a bit (a lot is happening, by the way), and there was this article three days ago. This seems to be something that could be simultaneously true with Russia sending a formal just-in-case request. Thanks for sharing though.
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Feb 26, 2022 02:48
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