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Flesnolk
Apr 11, 2012
Russia’s entire foreign policy is “let us do whatever we want or get nuked” so this is more of that

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Grape
Nov 16, 2017

Happily shilling for China!

"especially you, Andorra"

Despera
Jun 6, 2011
Wonder who pushed the line to such a point

Concerned Citizen
Jul 22, 2007
Ramrod XTreme
Situation in Kyiv seems dire. Intense fighting in independence square.

Tuna-Fish
Sep 13, 2017

BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:

People have been saying that Russia apparently put its worst troops first and saves the good ones for later which makes no loving sense to me but I’m not a military guy and what part of Putin’s strategy does make sense anyway

The standard cold war Soviet doctrine massively oversimplified: Keep your good forces in reserve, assault everywhere along the line simultaneously with the second-tier forces, then call off any assaults that face heavy opposition, send your reserve of good troops to go through whichever places the second-tier forces made best progress in, ideally get a solid breaktrough and fan out to wreak havoc behind enemy lines.

People's opinions on what is happening might be somewhat colored by that. We have no idea how much this is still what the Russians do. At least some of the forces massed on Ukrainian borders are effectively police, suited for internal security but not for facing off against a determined enemy, so they are not all "good troops". Still, I would be shocked if there wasn't a solid "second punch" left still outside Ukraine.

Sir Bobert Fishbone
Jan 16, 2006

Beebort

BIG FLUFFY DOG
Feb 16, 2011

On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog.


CommieGIR posted:

Someone hurt their feefees

someone took their parisian apartments

Relevant Tangent
Nov 18, 2016

Tangentially Relevant

It is my kokoro wish that a bunch of Russians got hosed up, and in furtherance of that

the popes toes
Oct 10, 2004


Just doing her deplorable job. But at some point we'll hear

Flesnolk posted:

Guys I already acknowledged the mistake, stop piling on

cinci zoo sniper
Mar 15, 2013




Tuna-Fish posted:

The standard cold war Soviet doctrine massively oversimplified: Keep your good forces in reserve, assault everywhere along the line simultaneously with the second-tier forces, then call off any assaults that face heavy opposition, send your reserve of good troops to go through whichever places the second-tier forces made best progress in, ideally get a solid breaktrough and fan out to wreak havoc behind enemy lines.

People's opinions on what is happening might be somewhat colored by that. We have no idea how much this is still what the Russians do. At least some of the forces massed on Ukrainian borders are effectively police, suited for internal security but not for facing off against a determined enemy, so they are not all "good troops". Still, I would be shocked if there wasn't a solid "second punch" left still outside Ukraine.

These legions of Rosgvardiya and OMON must be really bored by now, since Russia is basically not gaining settlements at a rate worth mentioning.

Mental Hospitality
Jan 5, 2011

Concerned Citizen posted:

Situation in Kyiv seems dire. Intense fighting in independence square.

I heard what sounded like an insane rocket attack a few minutes ago, probably from Russian helicopters, on one of the livestreams. Just an insane amount of gunfire too. Things are definitely getting hosed up. :smith:

KitConstantine
Jan 11, 2013

Very good article from the Ukranian left perspective on the more...controversial statements from western leftists

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/odr/a-letter-to-the-western-left-from-kyiv/

Synesthesian Fetish
Apr 29, 2008

Ya know, I useta be President... I'll let you kids punch me anywhere but the face for a dollar.

Concerned Citizen posted:

Situation in Kyiv seems dire. Intense fighting in independence square.

Sorry if I'm late but are there any live streams of this?

Grammarchist
Jan 28, 2013

Somehow this is all going to end with the Russian Communist Party overthrowing Putin.

Canned Sunshine
Nov 20, 2005

CAUTION: POST QUALITY UNDER CONSTRUCTION



cinci zoo sniper posted:

I skipped watching video of the first incident (I think it was Grads, but I’m not certain), but the second incident was some nondescript large calibre fire hitting a hospital ward, including a thermobaric round into one of the rooms.



So wouldn't this be considered a Geneva Convention violation?

Vahakyla
May 3, 2013

KitConstantine posted:

Very good article from the Ukranian left perspective on the more...controversial statements from western leftists

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/odr/a-letter-to-the-western-left-from-kyiv/

This is a phenomenal article about the idiot movements that have ran on appeasing the USSR ever since the Hungarian revolution.
Their coat tail organizations are still the "peace movements" in places like Finland that oppose NATO to "keep Finland out of imperialism".

Despera
Jun 6, 2011

Grammarchist posted:

Somehow this is all going to end with the Russian Communist Party overthrowing Putin.

That would make the leftists the big brain 5d chess winners for sure

Dr Kool-AIDS
Mar 26, 2004

Relevant Tangent posted:

Ukraine has already decided. It's weird how you keep posting as if Russia isn't the clear villain here, imo.

Weird how you keep ignoring all the posts where I say they're the ones responsible for the invasion, and that the invasion is wrong. That doesn't mean everyone else is a hero. Stop being dishonest.

FishBulbia
Dec 22, 2021

Concerned Citizen posted:

Situation in Kyiv seems dire. Intense fighting in independence square.

It's outside of the center ATM and most of the fire on stream seems to be AA

Bel Shazar
Sep 14, 2012

SourKraut posted:

So wouldn't this be considered a Geneva Convention violation?

Which part... the illegal aggression, the cluster munitions, or the hospital?

Mental Hospitality
Jan 5, 2011

Synesthesian Fetish posted:

Sorry if I'm late but are there any live streams of this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZebYm-nenY

Rewind stream to 5:47am local time.

StratGoatCom
Aug 6, 2019

Our security is guaranteed by being able to melt the eyeballs of any other forum's denizens at 15 minutes notice


Grammarchist posted:

Somehow this is all going to end with the Russian Communist Party overthrowing Putin.

Can't wait. Watching everyone in the states in power melt down, and we go back to the good timeline where we expand into space to not get owned by the soviet over the next century would rock.

cinci zoo sniper
Mar 15, 2013




SourKraut posted:

So wouldn't this be considered a Geneva Convention violation?

It would, and it would be far from the first literal war crime committed.

Canned Sunshine
Nov 20, 2005

CAUTION: POST QUALITY UNDER CONSTRUCTION



Tuna-Fish posted:

The standard cold war Soviet doctrine massively oversimplified: Keep your good forces in reserve, assault everywhere along the line simultaneously with the second-tier forces, then call off any assaults that face heavy opposition, send your reserve of good troops to go through whichever places the second-tier forces made best progress in, ideally get a solid breaktrough and fan out to wreak havoc behind enemy lines.

People's opinions on what is happening might be somewhat colored by that. We have no idea how much this is still what the Russians do. At least some of the forces massed on Ukrainian borders are effectively police, suited for internal security but not for facing off against a determined enemy, so they are not all "good troops". Still, I would be shocked if there wasn't a solid "second punch" left still outside Ukraine.

Plus, I'd assume they would keep some of their best troops elsewhere anyway in the very slight chance they thought the "West" might say, gently caress it, and attack Russia elsewhere.

Grape
Nov 16, 2017

Happily shilling for China!

cinci zoo sniper posted:

These legions of Rosgvardiya and OMON must be really bored by now, since Russia is basically not gaining settlements at a rate worth mentioning.

Yeah that's the funny thing, they've basically captured uh... one city? I'm not even sure about that. They mostly seem to be avoiding them like the plague aside from Kiev, which they clearly think has a magic "end war" button in it.

If this turns into a "each city will need to be pacified to win" scenario then that will uh, I legit don't see Russia being able to turn this into a discernible victory without going full Grozny on like 15 different Groznys.

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

Dawn is breaking in Kyiv, and it's still Ukrainian. :unsmith:

ZombieLenin
Sep 6, 2009

"Democracy for the insignificant minority, democracy for the rich--that is the democracy of capitalist society." VI Lenin


[/quote]

CommieGIR posted:

Its supposed to be vague and threatening.

I know I am a bit scared of how crazy Putin might be; that said, gently caress them. You can't get what you want from the rest of the world by threatening people.

I do have the feeling things are going very poorly for Putin right now.

Canned Sunshine
Nov 20, 2005

CAUTION: POST QUALITY UNDER CONSTRUCTION



Bel Shazar posted:

Which part... the illegal aggression, the cluster munitions, or the hospital?

The hospital; cluster munitions aren't illegal under the Geneva Conventions, and "illegal" aggression is rarely addressed.

Edit: should clarify, the US, Russia, and various other countries have not signed on the agreement to make cluster munitions illegal.

BIG FLUFFY DOG
Feb 16, 2011

On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog.


can't believe russians can't face sunlight. crazy.

cinci zoo sniper
Mar 15, 2013




https://twitter.com/stratcomcentre/status/1497408834536718339

https://twitter.com/kyivindependent/status/1497411568899801088

BIG FLUFFY DOG
Feb 16, 2011

On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog.


Grape posted:

Yeah that's the funny thing, they've basically captured uh... one city? I'm not even sure about that. They mostly seem to be avoiding them like the plague aside from Kiev, which they clearly think has a magic "end war" button in it.

If this turns into a "each city will need to be pacified to win" scenario then that will uh, I legit don't see Russia being able to turn this into a discernible victory without going full Grozny on like 15 different Groznys.

russians don't know how to do urban warfare that isn't levelling a city, and they're already taking enough heat for collateral damage that they're trotting out the old human shields line

the popes toes
Oct 10, 2004

Poland rules

Kill All Cops
Apr 11, 2007


Pacheco de Chocobo



Hell Gem

Perhaps they should close the Dark Portal.

cinci zoo sniper
Mar 15, 2013




BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:

can't believe russians can't face sunlight. crazy.

country whose national sport is dota 2 handles sun poorly, more at 11

Grape
Nov 16, 2017

Happily shilling for China!
Every time I check the live cams everything is dead quiet, so I will continue to do so as much as I can
#doingmypart

Celexi
Nov 25, 2006

Slava Ukraini!

BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:

russians don't know how to do urban warfare that isn't levelling a city, and they're already taking enough heat for collateral damage that they're trotting out the old human shields line

Yeah, Syria they could just level the cities, not so much in Ukraine.

Sir Bobert Fishbone
Jan 16, 2006

Beebort

Grape posted:

Every time I check the live cams everything is dead quiet, so I will continue to do so as much as I can
#doingmypart

Thank you for your service

cinci zoo sniper
Mar 15, 2013




Grape posted:

Yeah that's the funny thing, they've basically captured uh... one city?

No real cities. They’ve captured some drive through villages in the south, and similarly around E101.

Yureina
Apr 28, 2013

Yeap. I found this out recently. Really turns me off the Palestinian cause to find out they basically consist entirely of raging racists.

BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:

someone took their parisian apartments

Is that actually confirmed?

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CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

The blue glow is a feature, not a bug


Pillbug
Sun is coming up in Kyiv:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZebYm-nenY

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