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Count Roland posted:A no fly zone is a euphemism for war. The US has said repeatedly it won't go to war over this. yeah whatever else happens, zero chance of a us/nato enforced no fly zone
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Feb 26, 2022 17:53
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Samopsa posted:https://twitter.com/phoenix_de/status/1497576367898214405?t=npQD8zz84i8CPeZzic8-aQ&s=19 Honestly after all of this, I think I can say that I really love and respect the hell out of Poland.
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Feb 26, 2022 17:53
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Trump posted:Can't even find anything about a 35th guards-rifle brigade/regiment/platoon. there's a 35th motorized rifle brigade
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Feb 26, 2022 17:53
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cinci zoo sniper posted:I'll quote the full text for ease of reference. Still told them to gently caress themselves, if they are all alive that makes the recording more funny, still badass and less morbid.
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Feb 26, 2022 17:54
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Samopsa posted:...and that nordstream2 is carrying blood of Ukrainian mothers and children along with gas.
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Feb 26, 2022 17:54
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Also if the logical conclusion is anything NATO does against Russia equals nukes, then how do you stop them if they invade the Baltics. If Russia now thinks nukes is its magical shield against retribution that they escalate to if they feel inconvenienced; then we’re hosed and Russia is worse then North Korea. I’m not saying this to bolster arguments for no fly zones or intervention, just trying to understand the logical conclusion of the Russian threats and our perceptions of them.
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Feb 26, 2022 17:54
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Mendrian posted:This is a likely outcome but remember that history is not easily sorted into winners and losers. The world will tut tut and then quickly pivot to normal relations so long as Russia has something they want. In order to reach North Korea status you have to be consistently awful AND have nothing capital wants. Russia is threatening to nationalize the assets of westerners in Russia, whatever value there is for foreign investors in the country is rapidly disintegrating.
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Feb 26, 2022 17:54
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the popes toes posted:To illustrate how difficult it is to uncouple, Russian gas is still transiting Ukraine, carried by their pipeline, and being sold to Germany. Now. At this minute. And in fact increased the first two days of the war
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Feb 26, 2022 17:55
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Trump posted:I've said it in this thread before, but I think we will find NATO helped Ukraine actively during the invasion, with intel and I imagine, boots on the ground in C&C positions. Also at least four C-17s have crossed the Atlantic since last night.
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Feb 26, 2022 17:56
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Pookah posted:How can Putin survive this? Russian media is already finding its propaganda wins where it can https://twitter.com/Ozkok_A/status/1497604486055051266?s=20&t=x1irzFykYn-TsM0OvqvVbw
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Feb 26, 2022 17:56
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tracecomplete posted:there's a 35th motorized rifle brigade Probably it, capturing the leadership of an Army formation would be huge.
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Feb 26, 2022 17:56
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freeasinbeer posted:Also if the logical conclusion is anything NATO does against Russia equals nukes, then how do you stop them if they invade the Baltics. You stop them with nukes, which is why Russia is invading Ukraine, who gave up their nukes, and not the Baltics. MAD really sucks!
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Feb 26, 2022 17:56
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Is no-fly zone even possible? Seems like it would be significantly harder to enforce against Russia than it was against Iraq, and it would be airplane death on both sides, with a fair amount of stuff getting through and an end result of a Russian shift from aerial bombardment (idk how significant this even is right now) to artillary bombardment. Seems like significant pain for minimal gain on the ground,
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Feb 26, 2022 17:57
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SourKraut posted:Honestly after all of this, I think I can say that I really love and respect the hell out of Poland. It's cool that they're helping but the current Polish government still sucks hard I don't mean to go full Twitter tankie but let's not be blind to some of the political realities of the nations involved
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Feb 26, 2022 17:57
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i hope the kreosan guys are alright
punishedkissinger fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Feb 26, 2022 |
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Feb 26, 2022 17:58
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StumblyWumbly posted:Is no-fly zone even possible? No, because nobody in the west is going to declare war on Russia over Ukraine.
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Feb 26, 2022 17:58
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A GIANT PARSNIP posted:There will be no no-fly zones because when Russia says “no” you either look weak or you start a thermonuclear war. First of all, I agree. There will be no "no fly zone." Second of all, again, it is a really dangerous assumption that if NATO and Russia shoot at each other thermonuclear war--a strategic level nuclear exchange--is the guaranteed result; nor frankly is a great assumption that tactical nuclear weapons will be used. Keep in mind, as crazy as Putin might seem he is probably rational enough to not destroy the world over the Ukraine--probably. Frankly though, this thought that a NATO/Russian military confrontation = nuclear war is untenable, because if we operate on that assumption we would just have to give Putin what he wants whenever he wants it. For example, this kind of thinking puts you in a position where it suddenly becomes not worth it to defend the Baltic States if Putin attacked them, or Poland, or anywhere Putin wants to send in the tanks. Like I said, it is really not possible to defend anyone from a nuclear armed state--including yourself--if your main assumption is always "if we start fighting they're going to send ICBMs at us." Yes, we want to avoid a shooting war with nuclear armed starts because it would be very loving dangerous, but neither can we shy away from defending NATO from Russian fascism because we just assume Putin will nuke anyone and everyone and take the world down with him if we do not just do what he says. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Feb 26, 2022 |
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Feb 26, 2022 17:59
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Mustard Iceman posted:There were two F-16s. Haven't monitored Atlantic traffic. Right now people have been following civilian flights, any clue why? One was from Latvia to Poland, and now it's a Paris-Iasi flight...
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Feb 26, 2022 17:59
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StumblyWumbly posted:Is no-fly zone even possible? Technically possible? Yes, with world war 3 as the only real outcome. Politically possible? Not in the slightest.
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Feb 26, 2022 17:59
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Comstar posted:https://twitter.com/CITeam_en/status/1497573785414901760?s=20&t=1s3Ad2hR_qHgR7UG-6sXJw  They just sent one unit into the fog of war like it's an RTS game?
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Feb 26, 2022 17:59
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Where did the idea come from that direct combat between NATO and Russia is plausible as long as you call it a no-fly zone?
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Feb 26, 2022 17:59
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StumblyWumbly posted:Is no-fly zone even possible? Consider that Russia hasn't been able to establish air superiority against Ukraine, which has decades-old aircraft with cold-war era missiles that were literally designed in Russia and is massively outnumbered. The NATO air forces would wreck the Russians.
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Feb 26, 2022 17:59
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the popes toes posted:To illustrate how difficult it is to uncouple, Russian gas is still transiting Ukraine, carried by their pipeline, and being sold to Germany. Now. At this minute. The pipelines going through Ukraine are not used to sell gas to Germany. Yamal leads through Belarus.
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Feb 26, 2022 17:59
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StumblyWumbly posted:Is no-fly zone even possible? Not without a massive air war between Russia and NATO which would involve a lot of long range ballistic missile strikes which would be indistinguishable from nuclear strikes and would invite preemptive nuclear responses. It's not an option against a nuclear power unless you're willing to risk global thermonuclear annihilation. Please stop with the Clancychat about no fly zones, that's all that it is.
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Feb 26, 2022 18:00
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Tiny Timbs posted:Where did the idea come from that direct combat between NATO and Russia is plausible as long as you call it a no-fly zone? Some republican congressman or senator with a broken brain, apparently.
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Feb 26, 2022 18:00
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ZombieLenin posted:First of all, I agree. There will be no "no fly zone." Second of all, again, it is a really dangerous assumption that if NATO and Russia shoot at each other thermonuclear war--a strategic level nuclear exchange--is the guaranteed result; nor frankly is the assumption that tactical nuclear weapons will be used. There is no guarantee that driving into a wall at 80 mph will kill me either doesn't mean that's a dangerous assumption quite the opposite in fact
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Feb 26, 2022 18:01
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freeasinbeer posted:Also if the logical conclusion is anything NATO does against Russia equals nukes, then how do you stop them if they invade the Baltics. The Baltics _are_ NATO. We're all but openly driving weapons into Ukraine, not a NATO member. If you think we'd just retreat from the Baltics, there's just no way.
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Feb 26, 2022 18:01
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Tiny Timbs posted:Where did the idea come from that direct NATO intervention on Ukraine's behalf is plausible as long as you call it a no-fly zone? People just started saying it here. Honestly it's not a discussion worth having and repeating. No, NATO establishing a no-fly zone over Ukraine is not likely and would be a very bad idea. You know as much as anybody else seeing random twitter crap.
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Feb 26, 2022 18:01
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Tiny Timbs posted:Where did the idea come from that direct combat between NATO and Russia is plausible as long as you call it a no-fly zone? Posters rolling into a thread "just asking questions." Everyone's tense and it's a lot to unpack. I think I saw the question asked 1.5 times and responded to about 30 times, we should probably... stop.
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Feb 26, 2022 18:01
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sad question posted:
My guess is someone ticked the wrong box on a spreadsheet.
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Feb 26, 2022 18:01
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DandyLion posted:Double plus ungood kill list UKRAINE HOOOOOUSE!!!!!
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Feb 26, 2022 18:01
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OctaMurk posted:Consider that Russia hasn't been able to establish air superiority against Ukraine, which has decades-old aircraft with cold-war era missiles that were literally designed in Russia and is massively outnumbered. The NATO air forces would wreck the Russians. How'd they deal with air defenses in Belarus?
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Feb 26, 2022 18:02
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sad question posted:
You have to scout everywhere for hidden bases. If you don't, you just get clobbered outright because their economy outpaces yours
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Feb 26, 2022 18:02
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Randarkman posted:People just started saying it here. Honestly it's not a discussion worth having and repeating. Technically there is a no-fly zone around Ukraine, everybody in the club has a hallpass though 
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Feb 26, 2022 18:03
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No fly zone is literally just a Western media euphemism for an air war. Might as well also establish "no tank zones" around Kyiv too. No Putin zone in the Kremlin while we're at it.
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Feb 26, 2022 18:03
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This little game you guys are playing works both ways. If the US declares that starting at x time any plane flying in Ukrainian airspace will be shot down, then it would be Russia who would then be choosing to escalate the situation if they continued to fly, leaving the US no option but to shoot down Russian jets.
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Feb 26, 2022 18:03
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Tiny Timbs posted:Where did the idea come from that direct combat between NATO and Russia is plausible as long as you call it a no-fly zone? A congressman brought it up on TV so now people are talking about it.
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Feb 26, 2022 18:04
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Mustard Iceman posted:There were two F-16s. There's also been British Typhoons, although from what I've seen it looks like they're there as escorts for the RAF's tankers until they get on station. I did also see a pair of British Apaches fly across Germany to Eastern Poland on Wednesday afternoon, but I imagine that was more to bolster NATO forces than as any form of aid. And as you note, lots and lots of transport activity to the Baltics and Poland.
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Feb 26, 2022 18:04
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acidx posted:This little game you guys are playing works both ways. If the US declares that starting at x time any plane flying in Ukrainian airspace will be shot down, then it would be Russia who would then be choosing to escalate the situation if they continued to fly, leaving the US no option but to shoot down Russian jets. How do they enforce that without eliminating Russian and Belarusian AA?
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Feb 26, 2022 18:04
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sad question posted:
You have to admit, it's a strategy no one will expect.
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