|
Szmitten posted:Am I dumb and naive for finding it strange for Ukranian officials to ask for no-fly zones they know can't be granted and for insisting the west acted too late and are abandoning them while receiving supplies from them? I feel like it only fuels the anti-Nato/pro-Putin right/left messaging. He has to convince Ukrainians to fight and not hope for rescue; it's entirely reasonable for him to prioritize a domestic audience
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 15:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 00:18 |
|
|
Also for a bit of dark comedy to break things up this is a pro watch. Watch till the end for a goddamn Shamalyanian twist  You will not be disappointed https://twitter.com/skbozphd/status/1499298691156705282?t=jjfCW7m7KW_8gNKclouNdg&s=19
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 15:26
|
|
|
Just drove by the RUs embassy in Warsaw, someone came in a truck a dumped a load of gravel at the main gate
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 15:27
|
|
|
CommieGIR posted:Worth noting most of the Russian AAs have coverage well into Poland. And while the past week or so might bring these claims into serious question, S-400 is supposed to be absolutely world class state of the art. Supposed to be.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 15:28
|
|
|
I'll also note that we've seen a lot of evidence from Syria that the capabilities of the S400 are nowhere near what Russia has claimed. Which would fit right in with what we're seeing about their ground forces as well.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 15:28
|
|
|
Szmitten posted:Am I dumb and naive for finding it strange for Ukranian officials to ask for no-fly zones they know can't be granted and for insisting the west acted too late and are abandoning them while receiving supplies from them? I feel like it only fuels the anti-Nato/pro-Putin right/left messaging. It's desperation/shaming them into doing more. It's perfectly understandable and probably works on some levels even if it doesnt get NATO involved directly.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 15:31
|
|
|
Szmitten posted:Am I dumb and naive for finding it strange for Ukranian officials to ask for no-fly zones they know can't be granted and for insisting the west acted too late and are abandoning them while receiving supplies from them? I feel like it only fuels the anti-Nato/pro-Putin right/left messaging. Gives a rallying cry of no one is going to defend Ukraine but Ukraine. it gives NATO cover to give material but not escalate and gives Russia something to bargin in a peace deal. No No-Fly Zone so it looks like Russia once something in a peace deal.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 15:31
|
|
|
By asking for far right-of-arc things that he knows can't be delivered Zelenskyy keeps up pressure on Western governments to do something and for that something to be as meaningful as possible.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 15:31
|
|
|
Szmitten posted:Am I dumb and naive for finding it strange for Ukranian officials to ask for no-fly zones they know can't be granted and for insisting the west acted too late and are abandoning them while receiving supplies from them? I feel like it only fuels the anti-Nato/pro-Putin right/left messaging. It's fueling calls and public pressure for NATO/EU to "do more", and leaders in those countries are trying to find ways to do more that don't involve direct conflict to convince their own people that they are doing more. Always ask for more than you think you can get.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 15:31
|
|
|
cinci zoo sniper posted:I think even Russian propagandists are not shameless enough to bring up Aidar as an example of what they’re trying to portray. It was officially disbanded due to problematic elements, and later re-established after spooks vetted them for people who shouldn’t be near a gun. welp: https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1499754275462950914
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 15:33
|
|
|
TheRat posted:And while the past week or so might bring these claims into serious question, S-400 is supposed to be absolutely world class state of the art. Supposed to be. Yeah, thusfar there's questions if they have even tried to use the S-400 in Ukraine, or if it even worked.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 15:33
|
|
|
KitConstantine posted:Apparently Russia is officially trying to push the line that Zelensky has fled. I don't think it will work.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 15:34
|
|
|
GABA ghoul posted:Don't know how credible this is, but Kubela has also talked about reported rapes recently loving gross assholes. Hope the people start giving the occupiers the light post treatment. Alchenar posted:By asking for far right-of-arc things that he knows can't be delivered Zelenskyy keeps up pressure on Western governments to do something and for that something to be as meaningful as possible. i mean its been working. they are being showered in weapons/supplies and cash and intelligence and russia is now hosed economically and soft power wise.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 15:34
|
|
|
Ha, look at that terrible framerate.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 15:35
|
|
|
Jarmak posted:I'll also note that we've seen a lot of evidence from Syria that the capabilities of the S400 are nowhere near what Russia has claimed. This might very well be true. It might also be true that Russia and Israel didn't want to shoot at eachother. CommieGIR posted:Yeah, thusfar there's questions if they have even tried to use the S-400 in Ukraine, or if it even worked. I've not seen it mentioned once so far by the war reporters/bragging videos, but I suppose it would be very difficult to report on.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 15:35
|
|
|
Szmitten posted:Am I dumb and naive for finding it strange for Ukranian officials to ask for no-fly zones they know can't be granted and for insisting the west acted too late and are abandoning them while receiving supplies from them? I feel like it only fuels the anti-Nato/pro-Putin right/left messaging. I mean, yeah, they are asking for heaven and earth to be moved for them under any possible pretense because they are under attack. "This is politically impossible at this time" doesn't really go very far when shells are raining down on your city.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 15:35
|
|
|
Dapper_Swindler posted:i mean its been working. they are being showered in weapons/supplies and cash and intelligence and russia is now hosed economically and soft power wise. This bears worth repeating: Russian soft power was almost second to none prior to invading Ukraine. They could've easily kept that up. The amount of advantages they threw away for an ill fated invasion is.....insane.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 15:36
|
|
|
At this point everything demonstrated about the numbers and capabilities of their so called advanced weapons, and their lack of training, coordination, communication, and logistics, unavoidably lead to the conclusion that a conventional war between Russia and the USA would be roughly akin to the fight between the human militaries and the aliens in PYF invasion movie.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 15:36
|
|
|
CommieGIR posted:Yeah, thusfar there's questions if they have even tried to use the S-400 in Ukraine, or if it even worked. The idea that NATO needs to destroy S400 sites in Russia to enact a limited NFZ requires you to believe that S400 sites in Russia can keep 5G aircraft from operating over Poland but Patriots in Poland can't keep 4G aircraft operating just on the other side of the Ukrainian border.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 15:37
|
|
|
Jarmak posted:Latest estimates I've seen are the S400 can only pick up F35s within 20mi, and IIRC the F22 is stealthier. In addition to that Poland is host to a substantial Patriot net that could engage over the border. NATO needs more than just fighters to enforce a no fly zone. Jarmak posted:I'll also note that we've seen a lot of evidence from Syria that the capabilities of the S400 are nowhere near what Russia has claimed. This is exactly the danger posed by the continued assertions in this thread that we've seen an incompetent and incapable Russian military. We are seeing their ground forces executing a plan that is in line with their reported doctrine and ability and you've just used to ignore the risks of Russian AA systems to NATO aircraft. If the popular conception of this conflict ends up being "oh yeah Russia is just totally inept" some very stupid decisions are going to be made in the future.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 15:37
|
|
|
ronya posted:He has to convince Ukrainians to fight and not hope for rescue; it's entirely reasonable for him to prioritize a domestic audience Als to the second point, I thought it was more along the lines of Ze saying something like "The West is trying to help us but because of politics and logistics it was, unfortunately, too late to deter Putin. It would've been better if they acted sooner but that just wasn't feasible at the time." being reframed by biased media as "Zelensky blaming the West for not acting sooner and stopping Putin before the invasion."
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 15:37
|
|
|
Jarmak posted:I'll also note that we've seen a lot of evidence from Syria that the capabilities of the S400 are nowhere near what Russia has claimed. Becasue the S400s in Syria are operated by Russian forces hence they will not use them to shoot down Israeli planes. There is 0 assessment to be made of their operational capability if they haven't been even fired.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 15:38
|
|
|
Jarmak posted:The idea that NATO needs to destroy S400 sites in Russia to enact a limited NFZ requires you to believe that S400 sites in Russia can keep 5G aircraft from operating over Poland but Patriots in Poland can't keep 4G aircraft operating just on the other side of the Ukrainian border. The Russian's would also do the exact same thing and attack AA systems in Poland or other NATO states that present a threat to them! This is why a NFZ is a bad idea and a massive escalation and not something can just happen E-Z-P-Z
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 15:39
|
|
|
Servetus posted:It's fueling calls and public pressure for NATO/EU to "do more", and leaders in those countries are trying to find ways to do more that don't involve direct conflict to convince their own people that they are doing more. Always ask for more than you think you can get. I watched the NATO press conference. While there were very firm denials that a no fly zone would be implemented and "No NATO planes, pilots, or troops" was the bottom line he got a bit cagey when asked if NATO **or non NATO allies** were now willing to sell planes to Ukraine to fly themselves. "We can't say exactly what military support you are providing" Not a confirmation, not much of anything really, but it's a contrast to the heated denials of any such thing the first time it was reported as an option. Remains to be seen.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 15:39
|
|
|
Ciprian Maricon posted:NATO needs more than just fighters to enforce a no fly zone. If you're talking about other aircraft then no it absolutely doesn't. It probably doesn't even need to put fighters in the air.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 15:39
|
|
|
CommieGIR posted:This bears worth repeating: Russian soft power was almost second to none prior to invading Ukraine. They could've easily kept that up. Yeah. It’s why they are a great power along with nukes. Now all they have is nukes and fear.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 15:40
|
|
|
Mokotow posted:Just drove by the RUs embassy in Warsaw, someone came in a truck a dumped a load of gravel at the main gate On reflection I think it was fertilizer
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 15:40
|
|
|
NTRabbit posted:At this point everything demonstrated about the numbers and capabilities of their so called advanced weapons, and their lack of training, coordination, communication, and logistics, unavoidably lead to the conclusion that a conventional war between Russia and the USA would be roughly akin to the fight between the human militaries and the aliens in PYF invasion movie. I think this is exactly why everyone started dogpiling Russia as soon as Putin let his rear end hang out. Real paper tiger poo poo (except this paper tiger also has nuclear ICBM's but I digress)
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 15:41
|
|
|
I'm assuming that the 2 B-52's doing doughnuts over Romania is just sabre rattling..
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 15:41
|
|
|
Senator Narusova keeps the quixotic quest for truth https://twitter.com/ilya_shepelin/status/1499753134603784196?t=AYZQi8UwqDl6247Qd0NIfA&s=19 "Video of Narusova's speech about the killed conscripts - Yesterday the conscripts, who were forced to sign a contract or were signed for them, were withdrawn from the combat zone in Ukraine. But after only four of a company of a hundred men remained alive" Just so you know, she is a widow of Putin's boss in early 90's, Anatoly Sobchack, mayor of St Petersburg, so she is protected from harm or investigations.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 15:41
|
|
|
It is well established at this point that Putin wants to take Zelensky out and has boots in Kiev. Of course they want to bait him into making another public video from some historic site in Kiev - they have probably staked them out to either assassinate him outright or track him to his compound for a strike
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 15:42
|
|
|
Szmitten posted:Am I dumb and naive for finding it strange for Ukranian officials to ask for no-fly zones they know can't be granted and for insisting the west acted too late and are abandoning them while receiving supplies from them? I feel like it only fuels the anti-Nato/pro-Putin right/left messaging. It's an indication that they're pretty worried about losing their remaining AA and aircraft. Supposedly, Russia has been holding the majority of its airforce in reserve, but the question is if they simply don't have the maintenance and supply capacity to get all of it in the air. But if the Russians can establish air supremacy, things will go badly, and that may only be a question of time. I wonder if there are any realistic escalations of Western military support, that fall short of a NATO no-fly zone. The supply of planes seems to have become a no-go, and Western planes being flown by Western pilots who have volunteered for the Ukrainian Air Force would be an escalation of that. Other than that, certain European nations (Poland? France?) entering into a bilateral defensive treaty with Ukraine would be less escalatory than full NATO intervention, but still pretty Clancy, so I'll stop there. Hannibal Rex fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Mar 4, 2022 |
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 15:42
|
|
|
fatherboxx posted:
Forgive me for not understanding the internal politics, how does this protect her from harm? Is it a form of respect from Putin towards his former boss?
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 15:43
|
|
|
man headlines like this remind me why some on the left became pro-Russia
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 15:44
|
|
|
FishBulbia posted:man headlines like this remind me why some on the left became pro-Russia Yeah, that's a yikes from me.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 15:45
|
|
|
FishBulbia posted:man headlines like this remind me why some on the left became pro-Russia Because they're morons?
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 15:45
|
|
|
Taeke posted:Als to the second point, I thought it was more along the lines of Ze saying something like "The West is trying to help us but because of politics and logistics it was, unfortunately, too late to deter Putin. It would've been better if they acted sooner but that just wasn't feasible at the time." being reframed by biased media as "Zelensky blaming the West for not acting sooner and stopping Putin before the invasion." For what it's worth, he's 100% right that the US limited its aid; e.g., withdrew forces or degraded shared intel in order to mitigate provocation. At some point US intel suggested that the Russian buildup throughout 2021 was really serious and instead of shows of force, the US switched to a strategy of de-escalating whilst accusing Russia of planning an attack.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 15:45
|
|
|
SirTagz posted:You know, if Finns and Swdes wanted that protection, they could have it by just joining NATO - they would be welcomed with open arms. Making claims of "protecting" states that do not want it sounds quite imperialistic and agressive for a defensive alliance Sweden and Finland have defense assurances and obligations through the EU. It is not as if Europe is necessarily completely dependant on NATO for collective security, even if discourse tends to lean that way
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 15:47
|
|
|
KitConstantine posted:Clouds finally cleared enough to get a clear picture of the column north of Kyiv - still a parking lot. And you can see where ambushed equipment had to be dragged off the road in a few areas to keep moving forward. Are they moving at all, or have they largely run out of fuel and are just a vehicular graveyard of misery, hunger and dysentery at this point?
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 15:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 00:18 |
|
|
TheRat posted:Forgive me for not understanding the internal politics, how does this protect her from harm? Is it a form of respect from Putin towards his former boss? Yes, he doesnt touch some people out of strange honor type deals made in the 90's - Yeltsin family, Sobchacks, Anatoly Chubais
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 15:48
|
|