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Moon Slayer posted:Kinda the same view as American chuds (the ones not outright on Russia's side): if America was STRONG then Russia wouldn't have dared do something they disapproved of. This is the argument I hear from the kids at the school I teach at. “If Trump was president Putin would be too scared to invade”. Also I was told Trump was the most peaceful president because he made peace with North Korea. Edit: the biggliest page snipe Nash fucked around with this message at 03:43 on Mar 14, 2022 |
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Mar 14, 2022 03:41
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https://twitter.com/franakviacorka/status/1503037631235608585?cxt=HHwWksC-3eOw7tspAAAA e: there's probably some backstory on who is tweeting and what political motivations might be behind the tweet but I'm really ignorant of stuff Belarusian so I won't even try the popes toes fucked around with this message at 03:51 on Mar 14, 2022 |
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Mar 14, 2022 03:42
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Nash posted:This is the argument I hear from the kids at the school I teach at. “If Trump was president Putin would be too scared to invade”. Also I was told Trump was the most peaceful president because he made peace with North Korea. I hear this argument too and it's so strange. Trump loves Putin, hell he was calling him a genius literally a day or two AFTER the invasion began. And Russia attacked American troops in 2018 (through a merc group so they had 'deniability') and Trump didn't do anything. I'm not saying he should have, but if that didn't provoke a response, why would they think this would? Or rather, why would Putin think it would?
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Mar 14, 2022 03:56
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Sir John Falstaff posted:He's not making that argument, he's saying that's a popular opinion in China (and that he disagrees with it). It also makes more sense if you realize "US hegemon" is also shorthand for "will the West be capable of coming to a consensus and act upon it in a timely manner", which, before poo poo actually went down the way it did, I was among those who thought the answer was "no". This has been a REALLY big action on the international stage that has really clarified which sides people are lining up on and it kind of went in a "positive" direction that unless someone has the receipts, I'm not believing they called it ahead of time. I put positive in scare quotes there to balance out that while yes, standing up to authoritarian invasions of sovereign nations is good and cool, its really hard to talk about any kind of geopolitical realignment or clarity of sides in terms of good thing/bad thing. It simply is. A lot of people we weren't sure were going to inflict some short term hardship to stick it to a fucker being belligerent has GOT to be making people in charge of things in China paying attention. Both Russia and China have been ratcheting up their brinksmanship and it looks like Russia went and found where the line is for China. Now we get to see what China does with that, and this dude is at least putting out a message of "maybe we walk back from that line and now use this chance to build some international good will while we see where all the pieces fall".
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Mar 14, 2022 03:56
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Duey posted:I hear this argument too and it's so strange. Trump loves Putin, hell he was calling him a genius literally a day or two AFTER the invasion began. And Russia attacked American troops in 2018 (through a merc group so they had 'deniability') and Trump didn't do anything. I'm not saying he should have, but if that didn't provoke a response, why would they think this would? Or rather, why would Putin think it would? On top of all this, Trump was and is very open about wanting to ditch NATO. In what universe would the US not being in NATO and not having any troops in Europe be more of a deterrent to Putin?
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Mar 14, 2022 03:58
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The Ukrainians are doing an absolute great job holding out and keeping the siege at bay. Capping generals and officers forces promotions of incompetent people to the charade. Destroying command posts is a good way to keep information at a slower pace and forces the generals to keep moving constantly to avoid being turned into marinara sauce. The Russians are also seizing all laptops and phones in captured areas, so expect them to compile lists or connections to pro Ukrainians and execute the line of threat. The fuckef up thing is the sanctions make prisoner camps impossible to fund so executions are the way to go as they're cheap. They are literally loving Nazis and need to be eradicated. We also what if Hitler but with nukes? The answer is north of Kyiv.
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Mar 14, 2022 03:59
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Boris Galerkin posted:This part makes no sense to me. Who in the world thinks this war = “the complete collapse of the U.S. hegemony”? Why would Switzerland choose to abandon official neutrality now when they didn’t during WW2? This is referring to Chinese public opinion. China is weird in that there is a split between two social groups: (1) an extremely uneducated huge population of folks who are up-and-rising middle class or poor who aren't very informed about international relations at large, due to the way Chinese media works and (2) extremely well off people from Shanghai, Beijing, and other major cities who are educated and want to settle down in other countries like the United States or work in China but have kids raised elsewhere if at all possible. The upper echelons of Chinese govt. as it exists today are extremely smart and influenced by foreign education/principles, so they will well understand that the US and EU are getting closer due to this war.
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Mar 14, 2022 04:06
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Boris Galerkin posted:This part makes no sense to me. Who in the world thinks this war = “the complete collapse of the U.S. hegemony”? Why would Switzerland choose to abandon official neutrality now when they didn’t during WW2? It’s written by a Chinese writer for a Chinese audience. Combination of wishful thinking and look the US couldn’t stop a war from breaking out they’re weak! And Europe goes looking for someone who can preventatively guarantee their security like China or perhaps their natural guarantor Russia who will graciously not attack on a multilateral world
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Mar 14, 2022 04:18
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Boris Galerkin posted:I mean if this guy got this part so wrong then is their analysis even worth a drat? As others have mentioned he wasn't subscribing to that viewpoint, but describing it and explaining why he thought it was wrong. But either way, the point isn't whether his analysis is worth a drat to us, but whether it's worth a drat to the Chinese leadership, and if they'll act on it.
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Mar 14, 2022 04:20
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https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2022/03/exclusive-kremlin-putin-russia-ukraine-war-memo-tucker-carlson-fox/ It’s official.
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Mar 14, 2022 04:49
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SirTagz posted:I don't think I have seen this posted ITT. Great read... Unfortunately I think nuclear proliferation among third-party states is going to rise as well. It's obvious from the past 2 decades that you cannot depend on the post-Cold War order to ensure the territorial sovereignty of smaller states.
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Mar 14, 2022 04:59
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We're going to have to come up with a nickname for Tucker Carlson like Lord Haw-Haw. W/R/T that Chinese analysis by the State Council policy guy: I hear anecdotally that it was posted on Wechat last week, it got a backlash of nasty comments, and was soon pulled.
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Mar 14, 2022 05:01
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I guess the Kremlin found a new way to get Tulsi's monthly retainer to her despite the banking sanctions https://twitter.com/TulsiGabbard/status/1502960938147729413
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Mar 14, 2022 05:04
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I do love that the war has shown who is literally on the payroll with no more argument of "both sides etc etc"
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Mar 14, 2022 05:07
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Kangxi posted:We're going to have to come up with a nickname for Tucker Carlson like Lord Haw-Haw. I bet they stepped in somehow when Roger Ailes was pushed out as a rapist and died and took over the centralized GOP messaging.
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Mar 14, 2022 05:09
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:I do love that the war has shown who is literally on the payroll with no more argument of "both sides etc etc" It’s broken their propaganda model. It’s now clear what is true instead of foggy.
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Mar 14, 2022 05:10
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Bar Ran Dun posted:It’s broken their propaganda model. It’s now clear what is true instead of foggy. Thank you this is what I meant! There's always a debatable 'well is this a legit opinion or a full on payout opinion" until now.
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Mar 14, 2022 05:11
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 A new dawn breaks in Kyiv, and it's still Ukrainian.  
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Mar 14, 2022 05:17
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tulsi isn't necessarily on the kremlins payroll. tulsi was born into and is still a member of a cult that believes that a still-living octogenarian white guy in hawaii who loving HATES muslims and gays is the latest avatar of vishnu. that guy might be on the kremlins payroll.
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Mar 14, 2022 05:17
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Deteriorata posted:
You bring me such joy every evening. I can now get to sleep.
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Mar 14, 2022 05:17
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EscapeHere posted:I guess the Kremlin found a new way to get Tulsi's monthly retainer to her despite the banking sanctions The people pushing it are Glenn Greenwald, Tulsi Gabbard, Candace O., and Jack Prostateziec, so you know, ask yourself what those 4 have in common I wonder if Jimmy Dore of the Jimmy Dore show starring Jimmy Dore is too. Is Tucker pushing this poo poo directly or does he just like Putin for good old white man hegemony? I imagine Tucker isn't payed by any dictator to love them: dude just genuinely gets off on serving and doing evil wherever possible. He seems like an awful loving person all around.
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Mar 14, 2022 05:18
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mightygerm posted:Unfortunately I think nuclear proliferation among third-party states is going to rise as well. It's obvious from the past 2 decades that you cannot depend on the post-Cold War order to ensure the territorial sovereignty of smaller states. 10,000 ATGMs is probably cheaper and just as effective as a nuclear weapons program. Speaking of which, would it be possible to convert a basic off the shelf quadcopter to be a laser designator for those anti tank missiles Ukraine builds themselves? Or do those not work that way?
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Mar 14, 2022 05:20
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Tomn posted:As others have mentioned he wasn't subscribing to that viewpoint, but describing it and explaining why he thought it was wrong. But either way, the point isn't whether his analysis is worth a drat to us, but whether it's worth a drat to the Chinese leadership, and if they'll act on it. I think you guys all misunderstood me. For one I didn’t realize the twitter person tweeted commentary in subsequent tweets. What I was commenting on was the linked article directly. What I meant was, the person who wrote that article is grossly misinformed about how this war = the fall of US hegemony and this entire idea is just laughable. Therefore, why should anyone pay attention to this take (the articles take, the the twitter person)?
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Mar 14, 2022 05:24
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BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:tulsi isn't necessarily on the kremlins payroll. tulsi was born into and is still a member of a cult that believes that a still-living octogenarian white guy in hawaii who loving HATES muslims and gays is the latest avatar of vishnu. that guy might be on the kremlins payroll. Useful idiots really don't have to be paid as they do moron for free usually, although a little encouragement can pay dividends. Deteriorata posted:
Speaking of encouragement
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Mar 14, 2022 05:25
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gay picnic defence posted:Speaking of which, would it be possible to convert a basic off the shelf quadcopter to be a laser designator for those anti tank missiles Ukraine builds themselves? Or do those not work that way? Is it weird that I thought of Dahir Insaat?
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Mar 14, 2022 05:25
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How come the US hasn’t bothered to equip the Ukrainians with Reaper or Predator drones? I imagine having a full rack of hellfire missiles would come in handy right about now.
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Mar 14, 2022 05:26
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Duey posted:I hear this argument too and it's so strange. Trump loves Putin, hell he was calling him a genius literally a day or two AFTER the invasion began. And Russia attacked American troops in 2018 (through a merc group so they had 'deniability') and Trump didn't do anything. I'm not saying he should have, but if that didn't provoke a response, why would they think this would? Or rather, why would Putin think it would? You might be ascribing motive beyond "rah toughman rich me tough me rich too!" where none exists. At least, that's what I tell myself when I encounter it. gay picnic defence posted:10,000 ATGMs is probably cheaper and just as effective as a nuclear weapons program. A nuclear weapons program means your urban centers and manufacturing capacity don't take billions and trillions in damage, I'd love to read a CBA on this if some Officer Jim wrote one for the DoD. I understand South Africa's abandonment to be evaluated as such, from what a citizen has told me.
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Mar 14, 2022 05:29
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Star Man posted:Is it weird that I thought of Dahir Insaat?   thoughI was like "wow Putin really took those guys up on their crazy ideas after all!" None of these supply issues would have occured if Putin was using Quad Copters 
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Mar 14, 2022 05:30
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Kraftwerk posted:How come the US hasn’t bothered to equip the Ukrainians with Reaper or Predator drones? I imagine having a full rack of hellfire missiles would come in handy right about now. Probably just don't want them captured and studied.
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Mar 14, 2022 05:31
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Boris Galerkin posted:why should anyone pay attention to this take (the articles take, the the twitter person)?
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Mar 14, 2022 05:32
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mightygerm posted:Unfortunately I think nuclear proliferation among third-party states is going to rise as well. It's obvious from the past 2 decades that you cannot depend on the post-Cold War order to ensure the territorial sovereignty of smaller states. That was always obvious which is why countries want NATO membership. The Transnistria War, Abkhazia War, Chechen coup-attempt and subsequent Chechen war demonstrated that Russia would interfere with, and violate the territorial integrity of, their former subjects whenever convenient. The murder attempt on Viktor Yushchenko in 2004 and the Montenegro coup-attempt in 2016 just made it clear Russia was going to continue down that path.
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Mar 14, 2022 05:32
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gay picnic defence posted:10,000 ATGMs is probably cheaper and just as effective as a nuclear weapons program. I believe the Ukrainian ATGMs are beam-riding, so it wouldn't really work. What I'm curious about are small autonomous drones networked together with electro-optical sensors and IR jamming lasers. The drones could fly CAP over a tank, using their cameras to detect sudden movement or launches, and then bathe the entire area in jamming laser. It would be fast enough to stop a Javelin launch, and pointing a bunch of lasers from a battery operated drone is effectively free and tactically inexhaustible. If the drone sensors mistake a person opening a window or a sheet flapping in the breeze for a launch, who cares? All theyre doing is pointing a bunch of complicated flashlights at it. The drones could fly so far up and so fast that they would be extremely hard for infantry to detect or intercept, and its reasonable to think they could all be completely autonomous and networked together.
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Mar 14, 2022 05:33
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Some wag on twitter proposed the invasion was a result of a McKinsey paper written for the Russians. Well, I thought it was funny.
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Mar 14, 2022 05:34
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TulliusCicero posted:
I don't think for a second that those videos are at all sincere. There is no way in hell that they are not an elaborate hoax. But, what if?
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Mar 14, 2022 05:34
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Kraftwerk posted:How come the US hasn’t bothered to equip the Ukrainians with Reaper or Predator drones? I imagine having a full rack of hellfire missiles would come in handy right about now. went over this earlier on in the thread, but in summary: -Training (both ground support and operators - yes its made to be easy to operate but it's still a specialty job and keeping them flying requires a trained ground crew) -Pretty overt support that toes the escalation line -Expensive -Something we'd rather not let the Russians get a hold of directly Plus they seem to be doing ok with their current Turkish stuff, and it seems Turkey is keeping them well supplied.
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Mar 14, 2022 05:35
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Kraftwerk posted:How come the US hasn’t bothered to equip the Ukrainians with Reaper or Predator drones? I imagine having a full rack of hellfire missiles would come in handy right about now. Those are far, far too valuable for the USA to hand over to people who haven't been trained in using them.
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Mar 14, 2022 05:35
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Deteriorata posted:
Thank you for doing this.
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Mar 14, 2022 05:39
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Kraftwerk posted:How come the US hasn’t bothered to equip the Ukrainians with Reaper or Predator drones? I imagine having a full rack of hellfire missiles would come in handy right about now. Predators are outdated & retired. Reapers require operators and maintenance crews that Ukraine at the moment doesn't the time to train, for obvious reasons.
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Mar 14, 2022 05:39
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TulliusCicero posted:The people pushing it are Glenn Greenwald, Tulsi Gabbard, Candace O., and Jack Prostateziec, so you know, ask yourself what those 4 have in common I am Canadian so am not familiar with all these people. I do know Tulsi Gubbard because she was a dem presidential candidate. What do they all have in common?
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Mar 14, 2022 05:40
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Kraftwerk posted:How come the US hasn’t bothered to equip the Ukrainians with Reaper or Predator drones? I imagine having a full rack of hellfire missiles would come in handy right about now. Who's to say that the US hasn't? I mean, we see plenty of coverage of the TB2's wrecking things. That would make excellent cover for a couple of US built terrors quietly roving around blowing stuff up. I mean, the US probably hasn't, but hey, you never know.
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