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Dapper_Swindler posted:i have not seen that but i wouldnt be shocked. Russia has its hooks DEEP into various parts of the far left and alot of the far right and knew which words to say to make them believe whatever the gently caress they said. The greens are pretty much centrists at this point and absolutely not keen on russia, but they're in part born out of 80s peace movement, not too surprising that there's one weirdo who thinks any resistance is too aggressive.
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Mar 17, 2022 15:18
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Seth Pecksniff posted:So you're purging generals, who presumably know something about waging war (we're talking theoretical here), and replacing them with...? This is not necessarily true. If the ones in charge where there just because they were the best at giving rim jobs then the possibility remains of uncovering competent people who didn't play the rear end licking game.
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Mar 17, 2022 15:18
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KitConstantine posted:ik edit: drat that is well made. I hope it is seen for what it is and not spun as US propaganda from the Hollywood actor turned puppet of the state. Somebody fucked around with this message at 17:51 on Mar 17, 2022 |
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Mar 17, 2022 15:19
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punishedkissinger posted:i think Russia actually won during WW2 though Not without help they didn't.
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Mar 17, 2022 15:21
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More on those Belarusian explosions--apparently now the authorities are going with a "sonic boom" explanation, which as this reporter notes is different than their "artillery exercises" explanation from yesterday: https://twitter.com/HannaLiubakova/status/1504456729882505218 (Note that this reporter, although from Belarus, is clearly against Lukashenko, so there may be a bit of bias.)
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Mar 17, 2022 15:21
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Indolent Bastard posted:drat that is well made. Well, Putin just declared all actual Russians overseas as traitors, so not much of a chance for Arnold.
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Mar 17, 2022 15:22
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Yeah firing generals that fail until you find one that wins is actually how you win wars. I don't think thats what Russia is doing though. Looks more like passing the buck. And this war might be over too fast for a change in leadership to mean anything.
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Mar 17, 2022 15:23
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Antigravitas posted:The reason I was asking is because the Greens are hawks on Russia and I'm curious what kind of weirdo they managed to drag in front of a camera. Heartfelt apologies, the German politician was https://www.europarl.europa.eu/meps/en/96646/HELMUT_SCHOLZ/home , not greens but european parliament left group.
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Mar 17, 2022 15:23
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Rad Russian posted:Well, Putin just declared all actual Russians overseas as traitors, so not much of a chance for Arnold. A little different from the call to the fatherland but same basic premise
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Mar 17, 2022 15:23
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lilljonas posted:
Well that assumes the problem was caused by not having good enough general. The thing here is this the classic modus operandi for all manner of assholes from dictators of history down to very minor tyrant CEOs of family companies and theater directors. They have a stupid idea and only yes-people left so the idea is applauded. Then the thing obviously doesn't work, they blame the people in charge of doing the stupid thing, because obviously they have to be the problem right? The new generals might be geniuses, they're still gonna fail because the whole show is rotten through to the core.
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Mar 17, 2022 15:23
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lilljonas posted:The US, Britain and Soviets churned through generals in WW2 though. It's not a losing play, it's just sound behaviour of an army that wants to win. It does rely on having better suited guys coming up from down the ranks though. I was talking more about the general societal purge Russia seems to be spinning up. Going through incompetent generals under the assumption that you'll eventually find a good one is whatever, accusing your people wholesale of being disloyal and traitorous cowards is next level imo.
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Mar 17, 2022 15:24
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Ynglaur posted:Someone posted or linked earlier that Russia has ~20 general officers in theatre. That seems low to me, but I don't really know much about senior Russian military command structures. The comparison I'm thinking is that ~120 BTGs is about 40 brigades worth of soldiers, or 10-12 divisions. In the US, that would be 60+ general officers, not even including Corps (Combined Arms Army, for Russia) or air force commands. I can't recall where I saw it, here or in one of the other threads about the war, but I think there was some confusion of terms that was brought up - the conversation was about how many major generals Russia was losing and how there wouldn't be many major generals in a US army (that's where the ~20 odd figure came up), but the thing is apparently Russia uses "major general" as the lowest general rank, equivalent to the US brigadier general and thus there's more of them - ~60 something, I think? Unknown how many higher ranks they have above that.
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Mar 17, 2022 15:24
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Sir John Falstaff posted:More on those Belarusian explosions--apparently now the authorities are going with a "sonic boom" explanation, which as this reporter notes is different than their "artillery exercises" explanation from yesterday: Interesting timing for a Lukashenka ally to be found hanging. Note they don't say suicide https://twitter.com/MotolkoHelp/status/1504463251257450496?t=_kxkS8Rl5BkpnBj3h9P3HQ&s=19 (Belarusian opposition media) https://twitter.com/Liveuamap/status/1504462740449943554?t=AGfc6bo97tQwwTUc3iDgcA&s=19
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Mar 17, 2022 15:26
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GABA ghoul posted:
People rarely focus on just how thorough the Soviet Union attempted to russify Eastern Europe and commit a fairly aggressive cultural genocide. From what I've read the Baltic states were some of the most comfortable places to live in the Soviet Union (grading on a curve here because they still sucked), but they had done mass deportations of native Baltic people's and replace them with as many Russians as they could put there, banned all cultural celebrations and use of the language. This is the kind of psychic damage that would make reconciliation almost impossible without generations of cooperation.
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Mar 17, 2022 15:26
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SlowBloke posted:Heartfelt apologies, the German politician was https://www.europarl.europa.eu/meps/en/96646/HELMUT_SCHOLZ/home , not greens but european parliament left group. That makes sense, Die Linke can't get itself to distance itself from Putin. I'm willing to bet they won't be able to enter parliament again next election.
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Mar 17, 2022 15:27
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Antigravitas posted:That makes sense, Die Linke can't bring itself to distance itself from Putin. Much alike Melenchon in France they were consistently “trying to understand Putins side” and now that Putin turned out to be a warmonger (Who would have thunk?) they pivoted to preaching pure pacifism.
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Mar 17, 2022 15:30
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KitConstantine posted:Interesting timing for a Lukashenka ally to be found hanging. Note they don't say suicide I could understand if he would want to commit suicide, but what would be the motive for killing him? Maybe he was caught trying to escape?
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Mar 17, 2022 15:31
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Blindeye posted:This is the kind of psychic damage that would make reconciliation almost impossible without generations of cooperation. I'm not sure about that. Germany did unspeakable things to most of Europe under Hitler, but still managed to reconcile and build trust relatively quickly after the war. The difference is that Germany actually tried while post-Soviet Russia displayed mostly arrogant and self-righteous loathing for the victims of the occupation.
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Mar 17, 2022 15:34
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Ola posted:I could understand if he would want to commit suicide, but what would be the motive for killing him? Maybe he was caught trying to escape? Political revenge against Poland? It's so hard to understand what is going on...
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Mar 17, 2022 15:34
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Maybe this is why Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan are so pissed https://twitter.com/colleenwood_/status/1504448512758530052?t=y6SJzdpjD2lJdg4duW4JUg&s=19 Article: https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/03/17/central-asians-in-russia-pressured-to-join-moscows-fight-in-ukraine-a76957 quote:Valentina Chupik, a civil rights advocate famous for her work defending migrant’s rights in Russia, confirmed that more than a dozen Central Asians have sought her legal advice following pressure to sign up for contract service in the Russian army since Feb. 26. There are multiple Telegram videos linked in the article to corroborate the statements
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Mar 17, 2022 15:36
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KitConstantine posted:Feel good post I've been doing a good job not crying reading this thread but this has wrecked me. 
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Mar 17, 2022 15:40
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Mental Hospitality posted:I've been doing a good job not crying reading this thread but this has wrecked me. It's good to have the occasional reminder that some people are doing their best to be kind right now. In other news: this could be interesting viewing. Hasn't started quite yet https://twitter.com/DanLamothe/status/1504464929541210114?t=esyLff90oNZZD0M7B0G40Q&s=19
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Mar 17, 2022 15:43
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KitConstantine posted:Maybe this is why Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan are so pissed yeah, i heard about that a week or so ago. they basicaly went on russian craigslist and lied to drivers. i am sure they are just pressing them into soldiers now.
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Mar 17, 2022 15:45
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Ynglaur posted:Rotation and Time in Combat: Someone asked earlier how long people can stay in high-intensity combat. The answer is "surprisingly long". With the Old Breed is an excellent memoir of a US Marine in the Pacific during World War 2. The Battle of Okinawa, for example, lasted almost four months. The Battle of Stalingrad lasted for five. Some individuals absolutely break during combat, and in particular during sustained high-intensity combat, but many "regular" people last for months. The psychological price is paid for years--and often a lifetime--afterward. to push back on this a bit, the USMC has a harrowing induction process - and had a much worse one in the 1940s - partially to weed out people who are likely to break in combat. like if you can't get through a bunch of drill instructors bullying you horribly for a few months you'll definitely fall to pieces in a firefight. this is not a moral judgement on the kinds of folks who would not make it through USMC bootcamp, i doubt i would. the replacement process for american line infantry in the european theater left many soldiers fairly unprepared, mostly just sending ill-trained draftees into a bureaucratic system before they were bundled anonymously to the front - and this system had many examples of soldiers freaking out on first contact, and having to be evacuated after a day or so of gunfire. i would assume a fair amount of the russian army is closer to this level of preparation for war, especially if it is true that russia is resorting to pressuring conscripts to enlist as regulars just to fill the ranks. while it is possible for hardy souls to withstand months of combat, it is also just as likely that a bunch of young men immediately say "gently caress this, i'm out" and withdraw/surrender as soon as the javelins start flying
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Mar 17, 2022 15:47
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Mr. Fall Down Terror posted:to push back on this a bit, the USMC has a harrowing induction process - and had a much worse one in the 1940s - partially to weed out people who are likely to break in combat. like if you can't get through a bunch of drill instructors bullying you horribly for a few months you'll definitely fall to pieces in a firefight. this is not a moral judgement on the kinds of folks who would not make it through USMC bootcamp, i doubt i would. the replacement process for american line infantry in the european theater left many soldiers fairly unprepared, mostly just sending ill-trained draftees into a bureaucratic system before they were bundled anonymously to the front - and this system had many examples of soldiers freaking out on first contact, and having to be evacuated after a day or so of gunfire. i would assume a fair amount of the russian army is closer to this level of preparation for war, especially if it is true that russia is resorting to pressuring conscripts to enlist as regulars just to fill the ranks. while it is possible for hardy souls to withstand months of combat, it is also just as likely that a bunch of young men immediately say "gently caress this, i'm out" and withdraw/surrender as soon as the javelins start flying Interestingly, the Germans in WW2 made sure that recruits were placed in companies comprised of soldiers from the same geographic area, and they would be placed into that unit only when it was rotated off the line to allow replacements to integrate with their platoons before they went back to the front.
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Mar 17, 2022 15:51
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Mr. Fall Down Terror posted:i would assume a fair amount of the russian army is closer to this level of preparation for war, especially if it is true that russia is resorting to pressuring conscripts to enlist as regulars just to fill the ranks. while it is possible for hardy souls to withstand months of combat, it is also just as likely that a bunch of young men immediately say "gently caress this, i'm out" and withdraw/surrender as soon as the javelins start flying I wonder to what extent the Dedovshchina/hazing that seems so prevalent across the Russian army contributes toward this as well. Brutalised conscripts that are the subjects of constant bullying and hazing hardly seem like they are going to be the most motivated fighters in this kind of war.
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Mar 17, 2022 15:55
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SlowBloke posted:Political revenge against Poland? It's so hard to understand what is going on... I doubt it. From what mainstream media mentioned the dude had issues.. He probably deserted out of desperation, maybe hoped for some cozy stay in exchange of a couple TV interviews. And then it probably slowly started to get to him.
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Mar 17, 2022 15:57
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Tigey posted:I wonder to what extent the Dedovshchina/hazing that seems so prevalent across the Russian army contributes toward this as well. Brutalised conscripts that are the subjects of constant bullying and hazing hardly seem like they are going to be the most motivated fighters in this kind of war. i mean it worked for japan to a degree. the army and navy were loving insanly abusive. like an officer could loving beat the poo poo out of you if you didnt salute fast enough.
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Mar 17, 2022 15:57
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Ola posted:I could understand if he would want to commit suicide, but what would be the motive for killing him? Maybe he was caught trying to escape? If the 1930s is anything to go by being from the wrong country is enough to get you killed once things get paranoid enough. A lot of Finnish communists who fled to the USSR during/after the civil war found that out the hard way.
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Mar 17, 2022 15:59
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Dapper_Swindler posted:i mean it worked for japan to a degree. the army and navy were loving insanly abusive. like an officer could loving beat the poo poo out of you if you didnt salute fast enough. Japan's Army was abusive to the point that starving and outright murdering recruits and enlisted was incredibly common.
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Mar 17, 2022 15:59
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Dapper_Swindler posted:i mean it worked for japan to a degree. the army and navy were loving insanly abusive. like an officer could loving beat the poo poo out of you if you didnt salute fast enough. I don't think many Russians view Putin as a literal God however.
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Mar 17, 2022 15:59
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Dapper_Swindler posted:i mean it worked for japan to a degree. the army and navy were loving insanly abusive. like an officer could loving beat the poo poo out of you if you didnt salute fast enough.
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Mar 17, 2022 16:00
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Honj Steak posted:Much alike Melenchon in France they were consistently “trying to understand Putins side” and now that Putin turned out to be a warmonger (Who would have thunk?) they pivoted to preaching pure pacifism.
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Mar 17, 2022 16:02
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alex314 posted:I doubt it. From what mainstream media mentioned the dude had issues.. He probably deserted out of desperation, maybe hoped for some cozy stay in exchange of a couple TV interviews. And then it probably slowly started to get to him. I don't think so. He was a propaganda tool of the Belarusian government, and a very public one https://neweasterneurope.eu/2022/03/14/the-belarusian-migrant-crisis-and-state-propaganda/ quote:In his statements, Czeczko accused Poland of committing genocide on the Polish-Belarusian border. He claims that he participated in the execution of migrants during the ten days that he spent at the EU frontier. According to Belarusian media, the number of those killed by Polish guards varies between 200 and 700 people. He also claimed that he was forced to personally participate in the execution of more than 200 people. This number includes women and children. He was a witness for the government in an ongoing case. A bit embarrassing to lose him now
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Mar 17, 2022 16:03
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Cimber posted:I don't think many Russians view Putin as a literal God however. not yet anyway but the tsar was always pretty revered until they wernt. Nessus posted:While under no circumstances do you have to hand it to the IJA or IJN, they sounded 'harsh' but the Russian army's system here sounds more like a way for the longer-serving conscripts to exploit the new fish, which also has the self-reinforcing mechanism of "I had to pay my dues, what do you mean I can't collect? gently caress that, I'm gonna bully the new guys anyway." i sorta think systems like russia and Imperial japans hosed up systems lead to way way more war crimes then normal becaus "gently caress it, i can't hurt my officers, but i can sure as gently caress hurt these folks" or "my officer ate a bullet, time to have a release" CommieGIR posted:Japan's Army was abusive to the point that starving and outright murdering recruits and enlisted was incredibly common. yeah people kinda white wash how loving insanely awful the IJA/IJN were both to people they were fighting/ruling and themselves. the japanese far right in that period was loving nuts.
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Mar 17, 2022 16:06
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Tomberforce posted:Just got caught off guard by the most surreally horrific Was it the Russian tank that gets engaged, hit multiple times, tries to run away, then brews up with some of the crew escaping off camera—only to see one of them blown backwards (and clearly killed) back into frame?
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Mar 17, 2022 16:07
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ZombieLenin posted:Was it the Russian tank that gets engaged, hit multiple times, tries to run away, then brews up with some of the crew escaping off camera—only to see one of them blown backwards (and clearly killed) back into frame? I don't think either of them brewed up, one of them appeared to have smoke coming out of the hatches as the crew bailed, if we're thinking as the same video.
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Mar 17, 2022 16:08
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Cimber posted:I don't think many Russians view Putin as a literal God however. His religion is also getting isolated https://twitter.com/kaarel_kressa/status/1504451075834843144
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Mar 17, 2022 16:08
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KitConstantine posted:It's good to have the occasional reminder that some people are doing their best to be kind right now. They are not going to start doing a "let's deliver" "let's not" "let's deliver" loop with the s300 too i hope
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Mar 17, 2022 16:10
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Mr. Fall Down Terror posted:the replacement process for american line infantry in the european theater left many soldiers fairly unprepared, mostly just sending ill-trained draftees into a bureaucratic system before they were bundled anonymously to the front - and this system had many examples of soldiers freaking out on first contact, and having to be evacuated after a day or so of gunfire. You'd be hard pressed to intentionally design a worse replacement system than the WW2 US army.
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