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Nenonen posted:From a few pages ago: I believe in Chechnya they were doing dougnuts over corpses with tanks basically mulching them into the dirt
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Mar 19, 2022 20:45
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Sekenr posted:I spoke to a Ukranian friend like week before the invasion, he was way more bombastic about Ukraine defense than me, nevertheless I had no doubts that invading Ukraine will end Putin regime thus he wont do it. But that was when we all thought him rational. Now poo poo is so unexpected, who knows. Maybe Russians will well be happy to be north korea, who knows. Putin has absolutely been a clever leader in the past. I wonder if one day he found himself surrounded by "yes men" without realizing it. Like it kind of sneaked up on him. All of a sudden, he spent years being told everything he wanted to hear, and it just didn't completely backfire by sheer coincidence.
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Mar 19, 2022 20:46
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Yureina posted:I saw that... pretty hosed up that they actually have established methods for making mass graves. As if it is something they expect to do often enough that such instructions would be considered useful. Yes, although I'm sure all major countries have some documentation on the matter, as we've seen recently a plague could hit us even in peaceful times. If people start dying like flies in megapolises you will have to handle the bodies very efficiently or you have a major problem. What's disconcerting is that they found the need to update the instructions just before this. Either they did it because COVID-19 showed that their old instructions were lacking, or because they were preparing for a different kind of bloodshed. If it's the latter then it's probably the most farsighted planning they put into this operation.
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Mar 19, 2022 20:50
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KitConstantine posted:Speaking of Mariupol - more bad stuff loving hell. Is this part of the "humanitarian evacuation" or straight up hostage taking? Feliday Melody posted:Putin has absolutely been a clever leader in the past. I wonder if one day he found himself surrounded by "yes men" without realizing it. Like it kind of sneaked up on him. All of a sudden, he spent years being told everything he wanted to hear, and it just didn't completely backfire by sheer coincidence. I don't think you become a dictator by being an idiot, but being clever doesn't mean you don't make mistakes either. From my pop psychologist point of view, I bet he was banking on a military coup or popular insurrection backing up the Russian army and didn't have a Plan B if that didn't work out.
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Mar 19, 2022 20:51
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Feliday Melody posted:Putin has absolutely been a clever leader in the past. I wonder if one day he found himself surrounded by "yes men" without realizing it. Like it kind of sneaked up on him. All of a sudden, he spent years being told everything he wanted to hear, and it just didn't completely backfire by sheer coincidence. It could also be Engineer Brain. Russia was so good at destabilizing the West that he thought they were equally capable militarily.
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Mar 19, 2022 20:52
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Eric Cantonese posted:loving hell. Is this part of the "humanitarian evacuation" or straight up hostage taking? Plan B is "turn everything to rubble to make them surrender or die."
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Mar 19, 2022 20:54
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Eric Cantonese posted:I don't think you become a dictator by being an idiot, but being clever doesn't mean you don't make mistakes either. From my pop psychologist point of view, I bet he was banking on a military coup or popular insurrection backing up the Russian army and didn't have a Plan B if that didn't work out. Yes, but there must have been so many people to explain the Ukrainian animosity to Russian rule. This is like England invading Ireland and thinking that centuries of living nearby would lead to some bond that would have the Irish throw down their weapons and join the English.
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Mar 19, 2022 20:55
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Feliday Melody posted:Yes, but there must have been so many people to explain the Ukrainian animosity to Russian rule. This is a pretty interesting example given to this day there are a bunch of English officials confused by Ireland being independent and not rushing to Brexit.
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Mar 19, 2022 20:59
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Video proof of Russians using Thermobaric MLRS in Ukraine. It sets everything around it on fire too, jesus. https://twitter.com/ELINTNews/status/1505260416204746758?s=20&t=182u4kPQxf_P6Pkisf9e2A
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Mar 19, 2022 20:59
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Eric Cantonese posted:loving hell. Is this part of the "humanitarian evacuation" or straight up hostage taking? No, maybe he was a capable a clever leader, he became out of it during the bunker period. It was discussed before
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Mar 19, 2022 20:59
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Eric Cantonese posted:loving hell. Is this part of the "humanitarian evacuation" or straight up hostage taking? It helps to clear operational area of civilians sympathetic to the enemy. See Boer War etc. On one hand I feel sorry for those poor souls, I doubt their trip to Russia is going to be a fun vacation. Worst scenario, they get accommodated in the Sochi olympic village! OTOH, Mariupol is a dangerous place to be now. It could be for their benefit if Russians respect their rights and provide them with all the necessary healthcare services. Which I doubt. This is going to be really hard for the elderly, people with disabilities etc...
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Mar 19, 2022 20:59
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Putin may have been a cunning negotiator in the past, but its decades since he became a dictator who got angry at hearing about bad news. He's immensely detached from anything negative about the russian army or anything else, because who the gently caress would tell daddy Putin the bad news that everything is hosed? He deliberately hosed up the Russian army so they couldn'd be a threat to him and is now surprised that they are lovely Putin is a dumbass moron. He is an immensely stupid idiot who believes his own bullshit. Eat poo poo putin, you are a stupid, stupid moron.
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Mar 19, 2022 21:02
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In brighter news, looks like Slovakia is getting their Patriot, so Ukraine should be getting some more air defense soon! https://twitter.com/Bazilis/status/1505231362340622337?s=20&t=FeWg1UciPzDg0L7SC9vjlw Edit: updated link to original source
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Mar 19, 2022 21:04
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Ukrainian Nazis are preparing provocations with chemical substances, the Russian Defense Ministry said (march 19) https://ria.ru/20220319/provokatsii-1779069170.html Украинские нацисты готовят провокации с химвеществами, заявили в Минобороны 
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Mar 19, 2022 21:04
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Feliday Melody posted:Yes, but there must have been so many people to explain the Ukrainian animosity to Russian rule. This twitter guy has been posted here before and I think his analysis on the topic makes sense:  https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1504103672019513345#mBasically there was large support for Russia in Ukraine until fairly recently, but in the years following 2014 it all dried up, and a lot of the Russian higher-ups seem to have not noticed. e: Just read though that thread again, and one of the videos has a death in it Pavlov fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Mar 19, 2022 |
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Mar 19, 2022 21:05
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mobby_6kl posted:Their nazis were really good? Once rockets go up, who cares where they go down?
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Mar 19, 2022 21:06
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Oh my god how did the Russians manage to lose a Captain when there have been no naval engagements so far this war???? https://twitter.com/JohnWhistleblo1/status/1505274228408475658?s=20&t=N-mipxv9TT4yTp2YzlYI2w Post source: https://twitter.com/dantalion_71st/status/1505274395832766464?s=20&t=N-mipxv9TT4yTp2YzlYI2w I used the translate image thing on my phone and it says what the tweet says HOW
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Mar 19, 2022 21:10
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Maybe they started running out of guys to send to the airport to be killed and figured they might as well ship in a navy captain
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Mar 19, 2022 21:14
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Alchenar posted:I still think a Ukrainian collapse next week in the East is a strong possiblity, but if that doesn't happen then we might well be in the space where the maneuver bit of the war is over and the attritional phase begins. Why would they collapse? They've been shown to be perfectly capable of an ordered retreat - the angry Russian fascist someone quoted even whines about that fact. It would certainly be a morale blow to withdraw from yet more towns in the east, but being enveloped would take a lot of Russian maneuver and manpower, and they don't seem to have those. It's not some narrow salient which can be cut off - it is a rather large corridor which the Russian forces would have to control. And where would they find those units? It seems more likely that Ukrainian forces in the east will just keep their defensive posture and their mobile reserve approach to punishing Russian advances. Every demolished town the Russians color on the map has come at a heavy cost in casualties and materiel. And every advance take them further away from supply lines. With their capacity to conduct offensive operations being weak and the morale low, I really don't see this sudden pincer movement some of the Russian cheerleaders are concern-trolling about constantly (not that I'm saying you're doing that - I read this as an honest worry). I also don't see the attritional phase just drag on for months, unless Russia gets a big helping hand from China. The numbers are shifting in favor of Ukraine - supplies are in favor of Ukraine - effect of sanctions is certain, but could be critical. Digging in seems a really bad idea with modern warfare - drones, artillery, sof - all can make a mess of poorly supplied, low morale, static positions. It can probably work well in occupied Donbass. If they pull in Wagner or some other nasty veterans, the Russians can probably hold some ruined city just fine as well. But I really see time as being against Russia.
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Mar 19, 2022 21:16
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KitConstantine posted:Oh my god how did the Russians manage to lose a Captain when there have been no naval engagements so far this war???? Maybe he was the fire that was on the black sea earlier.
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Mar 19, 2022 21:22
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Feliday Melody posted:Putin has absolutely been a clever leader in the past. I wonder if one day he found himself surrounded by "yes men" without realizing it. Like it kind of sneaked up on him. All of a sudden, he spent years being told everything he wanted to hear, and it just didn't completely backfire by sheer coincidence. It happened because he went crazy about covid and self isolated and then probably started going senile at the same time.
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Mar 19, 2022 21:22
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They've not been withdrawing from the East, those Russian pincers from the north and south have been inching forwards, they've presumably been attrited considerably over the last 3 weeks, and when Melitopol falls in the next day or two that will free up the Russian forces there to move onto the next phase of operations. The only points I can see in Ukraine's favour here are: 1) all of this has been obvious for the last 3 weeks so they have had plenty of time to work out what they are going to do about it 2) it's unclear Russia has the logistical heft to actually complete those encirclements 3) after three weeks of operations and attrition the Russian air force might be degraded to the point where a break to the West is easier than it would have been in the past. Melitopol falling completely is the crisis point I can see. Either the Russians are able to exploit that to sweep up the East of the country, or we are in stalemate territory.
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Mar 19, 2022 21:27
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OddObserver posted:This is a pretty interesting example given to this day there are a bunch of English officials confused by Ireland being independent and not rushing to Brexit.
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Mar 19, 2022 21:28
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radicaldreamer posted:It happened because he went crazy about covid and self isolated and then probably started going senile at the same time. Watch his dumb stadium address. He's quite a good orator, and cleverly pushed all the right buttons, including religion. No signs of cognitive decline.
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Mar 19, 2022 21:29
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https://mobile.twitter.com/NeilPHauer/status/1505266263370735621 Note: a lot of other stuff Neil has posted is photos of destruction, and the rest of thread includes some verbal description.
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Mar 19, 2022 21:35
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The X-man cometh posted:It could also be Engineer Brain. Russia was so good at destabilizing the West that he thought they were equally capable militarily. as dictators stay in power for longer, they do more bad things in the process of exercising that power due to the contradictions inherent in dictatorial power, which psychologically requires a justification or at least a rationale. this rationale starts out as just propaganda but eventually it becomes almost necessary for the dictator himself to believe in it. i think this is what happened with putin: he started out ruthless but fairly normal, he destroyed chechnya, killed his opponents and eventually the propaganda that was issued to justify these decisions and his position began to surround the guy himself, to the point where it becomes impossible for his normal staff, ministers, personal guards etc to not openly buy into the propaganda even internally. there was always the potential for him to become like this and most of the people who knew him directly say that he has always been like this deep down, but dictators are nearly always on a bit of a slow boil as it takes time for both the person himself and the institutions of power to completely abandon rationality and humanity. most people forget that it was like this in germany as well, between the NSDAP's takeover and the actual start of the holocaust there were several years of relative "normality" where ethics had already gone out the window but at least there was still something like prudence and caution
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Mar 19, 2022 21:35
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Pavlov posted:This twitter guy has been posted here before and I think his analysis on the topic makes sense: Didnt realize how badly managed donbass was. Definitely explains how quickly ukraine went anti russian
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Mar 19, 2022 21:36
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Despera posted:Didnt realize how badly managed donbass was. Definitely explains how quickly ukraine went anti russian Yeah it's also a really important element of why 'just accept Minsk 2 on Russia's terms' was an unacceptable position for any Ukranian goverment to take.
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Mar 19, 2022 21:42
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Pavlov posted:This twitter guy has been posted here before and I think his analysis on the topic makes sense: yeah there was a reddit post a couple years back on public freakout i think of one of those edgy internet dudes wearing a t-shirt with a russian flag on it during a ukranian independece day parade in odessa and he almost started a riot and got arrested and that was the video i would always think about when people said that ukrainians were going to be all onboard the russia train during the lead-up to this.
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Mar 19, 2022 21:42
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An interesting thread on the information war. https://twitter.com/carljackmiller/status/1504896238826700800
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Mar 19, 2022 21:43
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Yeah, I've made this connection before, and I really do think it's worth paying attention to in the longer term. A large part of the English population is basically entirely ideologically aligned with Russia in terms of ideas of empire, and even some of their politicians are really confused about the concept of borders on the British Isles. I would not entirely dismiss the possibility of a future PM ordering British troops into the republic, without realizing it would be an act of war. The British have a real blind spot when it comes to Éire as opposed to Northern Ireland (my abode). They think of them as a single entity under their rule and not as N.I., which they rule (more or less) and Ireland which is a member of the E.U. and no longer under their thumb for just over100 years.  The education system has fed them a steady diet of Queen, Country & Empire since forever and it shows.
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Mar 19, 2022 21:46
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the popes toes posted:Ukrainian Nazis are preparing provocations with chemical substances, the Russian Defense Ministry said (march 19) What's the green sponge thingy on the side of the mask, I'm assuming it's a filter?
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Mar 19, 2022 21:50
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Alchenar posted:Melitopol falls in the next day or two that will free up the Russian forces there to move onto the next phase of operations. Didn't Melitopol fall weeks ago? Like, their mayor was kidnapped and a Russian puppet was installed. Russia claims to have captured it on Feb 26th https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-says-it-has-captured-ukraines-melitopol-2022-02-26/
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Mar 19, 2022 21:50
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EscapeHere posted:Didn't Melitopol fall weeks ago? hes getting it confused with mariopol
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Mar 19, 2022 21:52
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radicaldreamer posted:It happened because he went crazy about covid and self isolated and then probably started going senile at the same time. The "increasingly isolated" narrative is one that the media love (see also: Trump). There's no evidence of it being true in this case at all.
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Mar 19, 2022 21:53
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Fame Douglas posted:The "increasingly isolated" narrative is one that the media love (see also: Trump). There's no evidence of it being true in this case at all. Well, besides the 50m long tables.
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Mar 19, 2022 21:58
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The only evidence is Lukashenko's unprovoked denial
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Mar 19, 2022 21:58
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Gaj posted:Its an artifact of the cold war. There are US civil guard manuals on how to dispose of all the dead farm animals. Its supposedly a new regulation that was issued very recently just before the invasion. It was even featured in the local tabloids here for it's  .
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Mar 19, 2022 21:58
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OddObserver posted:Well, besides the 50m long tables. It's not like he isn't meeting other people in close proximity, that's clearly just a power play.
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Mar 19, 2022 22:00
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Gaj posted:Its an artifact of the cold war. There are US civil guard manuals on how to dispose of all the dead farm animals. That's fine until you read into what Russian goals as far as "Denazification" meant, and what they are already doing in Mauripol. The fully intended to fill body bags with people from "The Lists" that Putin has OPENLY stated they would be using to round up dissidents and "undesirables" (Russia's words, not mine) So yeah, there would've been a body count. Its also in line with nearly every Russian conflict of the past 20 years which includes: Specifically targetting civilians and outright ethnic cleansing.
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Mar 19, 2022 22:01
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