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Sure tear down Katyn, that's not going to make the Poles go berserk or anything.
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Apr 15, 2022 11:34
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i've been playing catchup since i've been incapacitated for the past few days and did the ukrainian forces seriously jebait an entire loving warship
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Apr 15, 2022 11:36
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Kith posted:i've been playing catchup since i've been incapacitated for the past few days and No no no. It's been promoted to a submarine. A leaky one 
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Apr 15, 2022 11:43
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Kikas posted:After some further digging, this apprently is in response to "demolishing of soviet monuments in Poland": Seems you're right, IPN (Institute of National Rememberance of Poland) is removing some monuments now. I didn't know about it since my city has one in pretty nice and visible spot and it's still there. On one hand I get why people wouldn't rather look at a loving red star with hammer and sickle, on the other it feels wrong. Those monuments are for poor sods that died fighting Germans, and not hard working NKVD members that died from overwork while shooting Polish POWs in the back of the head.
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Apr 15, 2022 11:44
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I think anyone has a right to be pissed off at the existence of momuments to an occupying army built by an occupying army in their cities. Lets be real, the purpose of these momuments was to be a perpetual 'you should feel grateful to be occupied by Russia' stamp.
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Apr 15, 2022 11:47
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Kith posted:did the ukrainian forces seriously jebait an entire loving warship Not just a Warship, but the Black Sea Fleet's flagship and the heaviest ship lost in combat since WW2.
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Apr 15, 2022 11:48
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Alchenar posted:I think anyone has a right to be pissed off at the existence of momuments to an occupying army built by an occupying army in their cities. It's for heritage, not hate!!
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Apr 15, 2022 11:54
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Alchenar posted:I think anyone has a right to be pissed off at the existence of momuments to an occupying army built by an occupying army in their cities. The one in Berlin has nicknames such as 'tomb of the uknown rapist' or 'memorial to 2 millions rapists'.
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Apr 15, 2022 11:56
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PeterCat posted:I'm not talking about just reflagging the 1st Cav and giving them to the Ukrainians. That would be really funny, in all fairness. gay picnic defence posted:The more pressing question is to what extent the opinions of these idiots reflects those within the Kremlin. Not closely, no. They are an adequate mood barometer though, if you correct for television drama. Telsa Cola posted:We are discussing different things, yes. Sending "advsiors" is going to be treated differently then just letting for what is for all intents and purposes are US formations act in country. US formations acting in the country is Clancychat. Akratic Method posted:Ah yes, casus belli, from the latin for "thing that happens a month into a war we declared." More like casus bellendi at this point. Alctel posted:Edit: Holy poo poo the apartment bombings page o_O That’s Putin’s coup of Russian public opinion, which effectively spelt the end of budding Russian democracy. Young Freud posted:https://twitter.com/RudiBlitzer/status/1514490301401993221?s=20&t=aGzr-khMByZpKWxy-LVAMA “And here’s the Russian version of the accident”   I still can’t find anyone credibly spelling out what this might be. Some defence contractor is probably sending bunch of field testing poo poo. MechanicalTomPetty posted:What would full mobilization of the Russian Military look like exactly? I think they still have some absurd amount of manpower in reserve but would that include armor and transports too? Or have they already used up anything that would actually be of practical use to the war effort? Mass protests of angry mothers (I hope) while they de-mothball poo poo. Kith posted:i've been playing catchup since i've been incapacitated for the past few days and Flagship of the Black Sea Fleet, yeah. Rust Martialis posted:Sure tear down Katyn, that's not going to make the Poles go berserk or anything. Yeah, what could go wrong here?
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Apr 15, 2022 12:00
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There’s a lot of serioustalk about tearing the one in Riga down as well. Which will go across about as well as intended, given that there are people who feel antagonised by Ukrainian flags and people who feel antagonised by the former.
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Apr 15, 2022 12:00
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a podcast for cats posted:There’s a lot of serioustalk about tearing the one in Riga down as well. Which will go across about as well as intended, given that there are people who feel antagonised by Ukrainian flags and people who feel antagonised by the former. It’s closed due to “structural instability” reasons already. I don’t think it’ll survive this war, especially if it lasts into the next year, or the escalation is ugly. Also it’s useless to the vatniks anyway now, since public events within 200 metres of war memorials may only be organised now by public authorities, and we would need like a Saskaņa Saeima coalition with an LKS Riga mayor to go there now.
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Apr 15, 2022 12:03
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I meant to ask, who is organising the straight pride event on 9th of May? Sounds like something Valentīns Jeremejevs would do, which would add some much needed lols.
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Apr 15, 2022 12:05
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Alchenar posted:I think anyone has a right to be pissed off at the existence of momuments to an occupying army built by an occupying army in their cities. Certainly it's understandable if Poland is a bit ambivalent. Nazi Germany no doubt killed many more Poles than the USSR but the USSR collaborating with the nazis to carve up Poland makes them al least complicit. Nazi Germany was there for 4 years 80 years ago while the USSR oppressed them for almost half a century up until 30 years ago.
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Apr 15, 2022 12:05
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Grouchio posted:Twitter's having a normal one over the Finland comments Peskov made back on Monday OH NOOOOO!!! NOT THE VERY REAL AND NOT AT ALL OVERBLOWN HYPERSONIC MISSILES! Russia is that guy that keeps threatening his angry older brother no one knows about any day will show up to beat you up for not giving you his lunch money, any day now I swear
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Apr 15, 2022 12:13
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Kikas posted:No no no. Skippy McPants posted:Not just a Warship, but the Black Sea Fleet's flagship and the heaviest ship lost in combat since WW2. cinci zoo sniper posted:Flagship of the Black Sea Fleet, yeah. superb. absolutely loving incredible news.
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Apr 15, 2022 12:14
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https://twitter.com/adegrandpre/status/1514759997925773317?s=20&t=46HTR_1BiRlEKlLRcpvDew "According to the note, Moscow identified multiple rocket launchers as the most sensitive weapons, although the US and its NATO allies are not believed to have armed Ukraine with those weapons. In the note, Russia accused the NATO allies of violating ‘rigorous principles’ governing the transfer of weapons to conflict zones, the Post reported. “We call on the United States and its allies to stop the irresponsible militarization of Ukraine, which implies unpredictable consequences for regional and international security,” the note said. " https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/russia-warns-us-allies-against-arming-ukraine-report-101650016092283.html Apparently some observers are linking this with the Russian foreign ministry's warning two days ago that any NATO weapon transports on Ukrainian soil would be considered legitimate military targets. But, of course, Stoltenberg conceded as much all the way back in early March so it's hardly news: "There is a war going on in Ukraine and, of course, supply lines inside Ukraine can be attacked" https://ua.interfax.com.ua/news/general/810166.html So somehow I think Russia's failure to target these convoys so far has a lot more to do with their lack of ability to do so than any intentional show of restraint.
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Apr 15, 2022 12:21
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I will say this: Russia are absolute masters at playing the victim/ threatening like a big shot at the same time The gall to get mad at your target of cultural genocide actually defending itself and recieving international support, and THAT being the violation of regional security What a bunch of loving assholes
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Apr 15, 2022 12:25
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PerilPastry posted:https://twitter.com/adegrandpre/status/1514759997925773317?s=20&t=46HTR_1BiRlEKlLRcpvDew Russia's given them more heavy equipment than NATO anyway.
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Apr 15, 2022 12:31
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PerilPastry posted:https://twitter.com/adegrandpre/status/1514759997925773317?s=20&t=46HTR_1BiRlEKlLRcpvDew To be fair, the amount to which Russia got clowned was pretty unpredictable.
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Apr 15, 2022 12:31
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Alchenar posted:It's very 'I hope my domestic audience remains disengaged on foreign affairs enough not to realise that I'm saying the opposite of what everyone else in NATO is saying'. Not really, because the domestic audience doesn't read politico.eu and the circulation of Welt and Bild is both steadily declining. Further, they can read the interview he gave to the Funke group that day that was published by the WAZ and notice that Habeck made a distinction between Habeck's stance (more weapon shipments) and the factual (that his ministry has not approved tank exports yet (and that's because of his boss)). Just a quick reminder: Habeck is the guy who demanded weapon shipments in 2021 and was dragged for it by Springer across all publications. Also: From the Thursday interview Springer does not cite posted:Does Putin stick to the framework you set? Do you know when Germany will become a target? You can probably guess why the "if you allow other arguments" is there while talking about his boss. It's not exactly subtle.
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Apr 15, 2022 12:36
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Owling Howl posted:Certainly it's understandable if Poland is a bit ambivalent. Nazi Germany no doubt killed many more Poles than the USSR but the USSR collaborating with the nazis to carve up Poland makes them al least complicit. Nazi Germany was there for 4 years 80 years ago while the USSR oppressed them for almost half a century up until 30 years ago. Nah, the Soviets were as bad during WW2 as the Nazis, this is a well known fact. In fact they were about as bad as they are now in Ukraine, especially for the smaller villages (and especially the pretty village girls). The bodycount is also debatable, given relocations and removals of anti-state voices during the USSR days. The Katyn memorial is a memorial to a exectuion of over 21000 Polish citizens, half of which were military officers, by NKWD. In 1940. That was literally just the beginning. Hell, they tried to pin it on the Nazis and Germany did play a big role in uncovering the truth (not all of which is uncovered still). So them threatening to destroy it is just another part of mudding the waters around the brain drain of our military and political elite, which they've been doing for the last
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Apr 15, 2022 12:40
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cinci zoo sniper posted:I still can’t find anyone credibly spelling out what this might be. Some defence contractor is probably sending bunch of field testing poo poo. ('Water drones') There are a lot of waterways in Ukraine, and a great way to get a spotter in place for blowing up a bridge (at the right time) or just some enemy stuff near a river is via a UUV. I do not expect these drones to be actual UUV combat drones as that would probably of limited use, and I'm not even sure they exist beyond the R&D stage. But mine-clearing and recon UUVs very much do exist. The latter isn't even particular modern tech - they are arguably just modern versions of cold war era remote-controlled vehicles, that seem fancy by calling them 'water drones'. It could also be mine-clearing drones. But I'm not sure how useful that would actually be. PederP fucked around with this message at 12:46 on Apr 15, 2022 |
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Apr 15, 2022 12:43
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Owling Howl posted:Certainly it's understandable if Poland is a bit ambivalent. Nazi Germany no doubt killed many more Poles than the USSR but the USSR collaborating with the nazis to carve up Poland makes them al least complicit. Nazi Germany was there for 4 years 80 years ago while the USSR oppressed them for almost half a century up until 30 years ago. It's really hard to find exact numbers, I've seen mentions that 90% of Polish citizens (so mostly ethnic Poles, Jews, people Germans considered Jews and Roma) were killed by Germans and Axis helpers. Some people add post-war repressions up until late 1946 and get number closer to 1 million people murdered by USSR, which would lower German part to "just" 5/6. There's also dozens of thousands of ethnic Poles and Ukrainians that murdered each other, with upper numbers I've seen reaching 100k dead Poles and 30k Ukrainians, which both were Polish citizens pre-war that might have ended up counted in the numbers above depending who counts and what's their agenda. But vast majority of people don't think in cold logic of numbers, and there the symbolism of Katyń can't be understated. I was 7 when communism ended, and before that I knew from family that it was a horrible crime committed there by Russians, and that I shouldn't ever mention it in school. The fact it was completely well known, but couldn't be talked in normal way made the impact way bigger than it should be. 22k people from upper levels of society is probably comparable to what German Eisatzgruppen murdered in first 2-3 months of war also targetting similar people, and probably a busy week's worth of murdered civilians sometime in 1943 when Generalplan Ost was in full swing.
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Apr 15, 2022 12:46
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Does anyone know if you can buy those stamps anywhere online? Seems like an awesome fundraising opportunity if you can't, there are a couple on eBay but Id rather the money be going directly to the government or someone currently in Ukraine
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Apr 15, 2022 12:48
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Kikas posted:Nah, the Soviets were as bad during WW2 as the Nazis, this is a well known fact. In fact they were about as bad as they are now in Ukraine, especially for the smaller villages (and especially the pretty village girls). 4.8 million poles were murdered by the nazis in just a few short years, alongside 20 million russians in about 3 years. There is no comparison. I know it's in style to bash Russia in this thread but let's not relativize the holocaust please. Postorder Trollet89 fucked around with this message at 12:52 on Apr 15, 2022 |
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Apr 15, 2022 12:49
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The list of recent US aid specifically included 'Unmanned coastal defense systems'. It made me very curious when I saw it. I couldn't find any specifics, but turns out there are just huge piles of water drone programs everywhere you look. Pretty easy to slap together a crappy boat with a sonar on it. Most of the US water drones are actually unarmed, since presumably the actual use case for the US is spending huge piles of money to detect drug smuggling submarines. God only knows which ones the Navy actually sent. EDIT: The name of one of the testing programs is, I poo poo you not, "Ghost Fleet Overlord" TheDeadlyShoe fucked around with this message at 12:52 on Apr 15, 2022 |
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Apr 15, 2022 12:49
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Postorder Trollet89 posted:3 million poles were murdered by the nazis in a 5 year period alongside 20 million russians in about 3 years. There is no comparison. I know it's in style to bash Russia in this thread but let's not relativize the holocaust please. Yeah okay I flew off the handle a bit. Like alex said above, the impact of that specific genocide is bigger than it's numbers.
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Apr 15, 2022 12:52
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cr0y posted:Does anyone know if you can buy those stamps anywhere online? Seems like an awesome fundraising opportunity if you can't, there are a couple on eBay but Id rather the money be going directly to the government or someone currently in Ukraine http://pm.ukrposhta.ua/nishop.php It's either down, or really hammered with traffic. Right now I can't even enter the page, but yesterday I was able to see categories menu, and there were both postcards and stamps available. Couldn't go further and pick any though.
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Apr 15, 2022 12:53
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Kikas posted:Yeah okay I flew off the handle a bit. Like alex said above, the impact of that specific genocide is bigger than it's numbers. Gotcha, I don't think anyones denying eastern europe has a much longer history of being victimized by russian imperialism than the german kind. I mean Poland was subordinate to Moscow since what, the great northern war in the early 1700's?
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Apr 15, 2022 12:54
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Katyn is of a particular relevance today in that Russian plans for Ukraine likely involved a decentralized equivalent.
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Apr 15, 2022 12:56
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The deaths of the Warsaw Uprising while not directly at the hands of the Red Army, were to a large extent the result of Soviet agents inciting the uprising and promising assistance - and then just parking outside Warsaw, while waiting for the Nazis to slaughter the uprising - and incidentally the majority of non-Soviet aligned partisans. I know it is still controversial to what degree this was intended or not - but considering the general behavior of the USSR during this part of the war, it is not an unreasonably grievance. So in addition to the direct casualties from Soviet 'liberation' and occupation - partial responsibility for the hundreds of thousands dead in the Warsaw Uprising. The fact that this was precipitated by a supposed liberator makes it even worse. As a Dane I am extremely grateful that the Canadian 1st Paratroopers made sure the Soviet army did not reach Denmark before the Western allies. The one place the Soviets did reach first (the island of Bornholm), was bombed and occupied (although it was handed back not too long after). (If anyone is curious about the role of Canadian Paratroopers in putting Denmark on the western side of the Iron Curtain, look up the 'Wismar Standoff').
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Apr 15, 2022 12:57
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alex314 posted:http://pm.ukrposhta.ua/nishop.php It's possible they are geo blocking the site to try to cut back on DDoS attacks, I'll tinker with some in region vpns and see if it makes a difference and report back.
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Apr 15, 2022 12:58
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Chalks posted:I literally can't believe this is happening. Won't be surprised if this either turns out to be nothing or the agreement renders it very tame. I'm going to be cautiously optimistic. Even the Germans have to have realized by now that it's no bueno to be economically dependent on Russia to this extent
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Apr 15, 2022 13:00
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How are gas prices in the United States currently falling? Or is this just the rampant speculation petering out?
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Apr 15, 2022 13:05
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cr0y posted:It's possible they are geo blocking the site to try to cut back on DDoS attacks, I'll tinker with some in region vpns and see if it makes a difference and report back. The shop seems to be just down. The main website, ukrposhta.ua, works fine.
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Apr 15, 2022 13:06
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Kikas posted:After some further digging, this apprently is in response to "demolishing of soviet monuments in Poland": Last time someone in Hungary poured paint over the soviet monument in Budapest he got visited by a Chechen guy called Magomed who forced him to post an apology video on youtube. Enjoy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P__yOqT5Hdg
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Apr 15, 2022 13:07
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cr0y posted:How are gas prices in the United States currently falling? Or is this just the rampant speculation petering out?
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Apr 15, 2022 13:11
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PederP posted:The deaths of the Warsaw Uprising while not directly at the hands of the Red Army, were to a large extent the result of Soviet agents inciting the uprising and promising assistance - and then just parking outside Warsaw, while waiting for the Nazis to slaughter the uprising - and incidentally the majority of non-Soviet aligned partisans. It's really complex topic, and I'd rather not derail Ukraine thread with talk about Warsaw Uprising. What you've listed is pretty much the official position of present ruling Polish party, but there are other valid viewpoints to consider. And to add some personal touches: my family lived near Warsaw since forever, and generally some of extended family were closeby during the war. Every year on August 1st at 5pm there's a minute of silence to commemorate them. My father calls that "day of blood" and is pretty critical of people that say stuff like "their sacrifice made Poland not become another SSR".
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Apr 15, 2022 13:15
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a podcast for cats posted:I meant to ask, who is organising the straight pride event on 9th of May? Sounds like something Valentīns Jeremejevs would do, which would add some much needed lols. Not entirely sure, this is where I got it from: https://twitter.com/selmuushh/status/1514212796350836738 Checking around, this may have been more of a rhetorical thing. While I was excavating Latvian twitter for the source, I also found this marvel: https://twitter.com/eaunina1/status/1514576810150961154
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Apr 15, 2022 13:40
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Grouchio posted:Twitter's having a normal one over the Finland comments Peskov made back on Monday Meanwhile the Finnish state media is all  over Russian statements:https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-12407110 Russia Repeats Familiar Warning Over "Consequences" Funny that some others seem more freaked out over these things than the people who actually live here. Guess this is what being a South Korean is like?
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