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Nenonen posted:Get a reality check, they have been fighting Russians all this time. They too take losses and need supply deliveries to the front. You don't just switch from defense to offense by fixing a bayonet to your AK-74 and jumping out of your foxhole toward the enemy, it takes a lot of preparation, scouting enemy positions, silencing their artillery etc. It's really chicken-hawkesque to demand on the internet for Ukraine to do more to defeat the invaders, as if it's just a matter of a lack of motivation.
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Apr 16, 2022 14:41
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ronya posted:
It's still unconfirmed so who knows if it's just ex special forces volunteering their services. If they are, in fact, serving members of the British army there's no way they'll stray from a purely advisory role imo. They don't want to slip into combatant status. But like you say if this story pans out it's certainly a testament to Kyiv no longer being seen as a frontline city.
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Apr 16, 2022 14:44
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PederP posted:There are numerous Russian minorities in North-Eastern Europe (possibly elsewhere) that are openly against being taken into the bosom of the Motherland. I think this is actually the norm throughout history, although with significant exceptions - minorities generally have much less interest in the active pursuit of Irredentism than the politicians of their homeland. Such ethno-nationalist rationalizations tend to originate from above - even if they often manage to poison the wider fabric of society. Oh, absolutely. That's the point I was trying to make in my earlier post, though it occurs to me that I never actually made the point: if we applies the same arguments to our society, we would see they're nonsensical and stupid. They are no less nonsensical and stupid because it's happening in Eastern Europe instead of here. And yet, for years now, we've satisfied ourselves with the really, really stupid and transparent excuse about "ethnic Russians" being a justification for annexing bits of other countries. It's insane; nowhere in "the west" would we accept such daft argumentation for the annexation of bits of other countries.
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Apr 16, 2022 14:49
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A very interesting piece of information: https://twitter.com/Neblogai1/status/1515272405970735105 Before the war, the Ukrainians had taken delivery on exactly three Neptun missiles.
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Apr 16, 2022 14:55
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Tuna-Fish posted:Before the war, the Ukrainians had taken delivery on exactly three Neptun missiles. And now the Russians have taken delivery of two. 
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Apr 16, 2022 15:13
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Tuna-Fish posted:Before the war, the Ukrainians had taken delivery on exactly three Neptun missiles. Imagine being the guy pulling the trigger on the last missile. No pressure bro.
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Apr 16, 2022 15:14
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Jamsque posted:This is a good read, thank you for sharing. Everything about this conflict that is coming out of the left in the USA (e.g. the Chomsky above) is driving me to absolute despair, it's relieving to be reminded that there are prominent socialist thinkers elsewhere in the world who aren't advocating for the people of Ukraine to just lay down and die in the name of Regional Stability. On my mobile so I can't find it, but the attitude that Ukraine should just be oppressed quietly for the benefit of the not-yet-oppressed reminds me of that 4-panel comic where the white guy is telling the black protester to be quieter, until at last he's satisfied when the black protester is dead.
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Apr 16, 2022 15:16
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I don't have faith in these proposed arrangements involving a neutral Ukraine, since I think what Russians mean with "neutral Ukraine" is pretty far from what I think of as "neutral". Sad, since it's pretty hard to see a good way to peace otherwise atm. I still think peace sooner rather than later would be good.
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Apr 16, 2022 15:17
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Tuna-Fish posted:A very interesting piece of information: Well, that's what Chornovol implies. UKR has fabulous OPSEC
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Apr 16, 2022 15:18
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Ynglaur posted:On my mobile so I can't find it, but the attitude that Ukraine should just be oppressed quietly for the benefit of the not-yet-oppressed reminds me of that 4-panel comic where the white guy is telling the black protester to be quieter, until at last he's satisfied when the black protester is dead. So Ukrainians should just die in a decade long war instead? Oh I'm sorry, I forgot, they are winning, so they must be invading Russia back soon.
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Apr 16, 2022 15:18
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PainterofCrap posted:Well, that's what Chornovol implies.
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Apr 16, 2022 15:22
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Bholder posted:So Ukrainians should just die in a decade long war instead? Russia could stop the war anytime they choose, maybe you should direct your ire to the invader instead.
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Apr 16, 2022 15:24
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Bholder posted:So Ukrainians should just die in a decade long war instead? That is definitely what he is said, you nailed it. They gave peace a chance. They were invaded for it. The war was not Ukraine's choice. And if the 'decade-long war' (hint, they've been at war for 8 years now already) results in them surviving and not all being dead, then perhaps they would be happy with their choice.
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Apr 16, 2022 15:25
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Kchama posted:That is definitely what he is said, you nailed it. They straight up said no to contested territories, that is not "giving peace a chance". But yes, I'm sure Ukraine is going to take back Crimea any day now... I also love how maybe they will be happy once their country becomes the next Afghanistan, good take.
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Apr 16, 2022 15:27
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Bholder posted:So Ukrainians should just die in a decade long war instead? Ukrainians currently think fighting and dying to preserve their homes and lives is worthwhile. As long as they think that, they should be supported in it. If that takes a decade or more, so be it. No one "should" die. They're choosing to put their lives on the line for a cause they believe in. They have the agency to do as they wish.
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Apr 16, 2022 15:29
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Bholder posted:Both prolongs the conflict so in the point of view of minimizing civilian casualties, not really. Bholder posted:Are we seriously going with the nazi comparisons? When both groups are white and the two cultures are quite close and similar? Bholder posted:So Ukrainians should just die in a decade long war instead? Yea I don't think the poster who argued against arming Ukraine and got mad about comparing Russia's genocide to what the nazis did is exactly arguing in good faith but rather trying to be as inflammatory as possible. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Apr 16, 2022 15:31
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Bholder posted:They straight up said no to contested territories, that is not "giving peace a chance". Go gently caress yourself, authoritarian apologist trash goblin. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Apr 16, 2022 15:33
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MrYenko posted:Go gently caress yourself, authoritarian apologist trash goblin. now this is good faith arguing (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Apr 16, 2022 15:34
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Bholder posted:now this is good faith arguing To their credit, they're at least honest about it.
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Apr 16, 2022 15:38
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Bholder posted:So Ukrainians should just die in a decade long war instead? The war is going to be over in 2 months because the Russians are losing so much men and material the line will collapse. The Ukraine won't invade Russia.
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Apr 16, 2022 15:38
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I assume everyone likes a nice Russian traffic jam.FT posted:Russian trucks stuck in long queues to leave Poland as EU ban deadline looms
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Apr 16, 2022 15:38
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Related to that, Belarus in response to the EU's ban on cars registered in Russia and Belarus decided to practically embargo itself. https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1515028483122024449
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Apr 16, 2022 15:41
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Antigravitas posted:I assume everyone likes a nice Russian traffic jam. Well, the Polish authorities need to be very thorough with the customs inspections. We can't have weapons getting over to the aggressing parties, after all. gently caress 'em.
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Apr 16, 2022 15:43
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Ukrainians have been having some fun in Tokmak: https://twitter.com/BackAndAlive/status/1515335368786251788 Google Translation: "‼ ️Unknown patriots successfully adjusted the fire on the occupiers in Tokmak in Zaporizhia. All Russian personnel who unloaded 10 wagons of ammunition were eliminated коженEveryone can join the resistance movement and help destroy the enemy here👉https: //findokupant.com"
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Apr 16, 2022 15:47
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Deteriorata posted:Ukrainians have been having some fun in Tokmak: this is like chain email levels now
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Apr 16, 2022 15:48
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https://twitter.com/Liveuamap/status/1515328643865657349 There is some speculation that this general has been previously mis-identified, when, uhm, included in the official count.
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Apr 16, 2022 15:50
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punishedkissinger posted:this is like chain email levels now They just had some forward spotters sneak in to direct artillery. It's not particularly remarkable.
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Apr 16, 2022 15:55
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quote:Are we seriously going with the nazi comparisons? When both groups are white and the two cultures are quite close and similar? WTF is this argument? I know its from a while ago, but I've seen it elsewhere, too. Pretty sure most people killed by the nazis were white, and culturally similar to Germans.
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Apr 16, 2022 15:55
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OddObserver posted:https://twitter.com/Liveuamap/status/1515328643865657349  Let's hope the idiotic russians become overconfident enough to send more generals to get shot to pieces.
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Apr 16, 2022 15:59
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New Coke posted:WTF is this argument? I know its from a while ago, but I've seen it elsewhere, too. Pretty sure most people killed by the nazis were white, and culturally similar to Germans. Look here: I mean, sure the head prosecutor at Nuremberg says this is a similar situation and should be treated as such, but does he really know what he’s talking about?
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Apr 16, 2022 16:01
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Deteriorata posted:They just had some forward spotters sneak in to direct artillery. It's not particularly remarkable. Creating a mobile app to be used by of civilians to perform OSINT and direct artillery fire is somewhat innovative. It's not like civilians using radio/phone to do this hasn't happened before in the history of warfare - but Ukraine has done a good job at organizing these efforts with a high degree of technical and operational sophistication. Meanwhile the Russian military is not even managing to make proper use of legacy technology for their communication.
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Apr 16, 2022 16:03
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Bholder posted:They straight up said no to contested territories, that is not "giving peace a chance". Ukraine let Russia undermine on them since before 2014. Russia invaded them in 2014. Ukraine did not invade Russia. Russia spent a year building up on Ukraine's border. Ukraine did not push them back, giving peace a chance until Russia, once again, broke it. Ukraine has said nothing about throwing the Russians out of the 'contested territories'. Better to be Afghanistan than to be dead in a ditch. You can't come back from being dead. EDIT: The war can end the moment Russia wants it to. Russia doesn't want it to. If Ukraine just surrendered, they would change the form of war to make Ukraine's suffering much longer and MUCH more agonizing. Either way, Ukraine is going to suffer. But if Ukraine fights, they can stop the suffering. That is certainly why the country has turned out to fight. Russia has spared no one, not even the Ukrainians who were pro-Russian. Kchama fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Apr 16, 2022 |
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Apr 16, 2022 16:05
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Bholder posted:So Ukrainians should just die in a decade long war instead? If they want to, sure, why not? Ideally they kill as many Russian invaders as they can before they die. As sovereignty is to a state, agency is to a man, and like everything else in life, violence is what you find at the root if you chase it all the way down.
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Apr 16, 2022 16:06
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New Coke posted:WTF is this argument? I know its from a while ago, but I've seen it elsewhere, too. Pretty sure most people killed by the nazis were white, and culturally similar to Germans. There are folks out there arguing that it's absurd to say that Russia is intent on colonizing Ukraine. After all, they're ethnically and culturally related and used to be a part of the same Empire. Only Western nations can be colonizers, don't you know.
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Apr 16, 2022 16:08
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Charlz Guybon posted:I'm not demanding more. Ukraine is pretty much doing what I laid out here. They aren't just attacking here and there. They are attacking everywhere. Sure they are. Such strong attacks everywhere, I'm sure Mariupol will be liberated before this thread goes to next page.
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Apr 16, 2022 16:09
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New Coke posted:WTF is this argument? I know its from a while ago, but I've seen it elsewhere, too. Pretty sure most people killed by the nazis were white, and culturally similar to Germans. When all you have is your countries version of Rassenlehre…
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Apr 16, 2022 16:12
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Polohy was shelled overnight by Russian forces. Which indicates Ukrainian activity in the area - which is a 2 hour drive from Mariupol. To me that really shows how close the contested area is to the siege. I am not expecting the siege being lifted soon - nor that it is likely to be lifted before it falls. But it means that the besieging forced are operating very close to Ukrainian internal lines - the 'land bridge' doesn't look particularly safe from Ukrainian attacks at the time. Russian supply lines are looking like the weak link still. https://t.me/suspilnezaporizhzhya/3860
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Apr 16, 2022 16:12
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Nenonen posted:Sure they are. Such strong attacks everywhere, I'm sure Mariupol will be liberated before this thread goes to next page. It'll be liberated before the end of next month, which is impressive enough.
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Apr 16, 2022 16:14
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How are u posted:There are folks out there arguing that it's absurd to say that Russia is intent on colonizing Ukraine. After all, they're ethnically and culturally related and used to be a part of the same Empire. Only Western nations can be colonizers, don't you know. The reason they are strongly culturally related, of course, has nothing to with Russian Empire literally imposing their culture, banning Ukrainian culture, and Stalin literally executing an entire generation of Ukrainian writers and artists. Colonialism never results in cultural ties, not in Ireland, not in Françafrique. People in Algeria know French simply because they *really* admire the work of Dumas and Hugo, don't you know?
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Apr 16, 2022 16:17
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https://twitter.com/kyivindependent/status/1515340106386886658 https://twitter.com/nat_vasilyeva/status/1515292460859203584 Antigravitas posted:I assume everyone likes a nice Russian traffic jam. If someone makes a Dungeons & Dragons spinoff about Europe, Russian national trait should be forming caravans.
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