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Atreiden posted:Yea I posted the same tweet earlier We aren't likely to see that for days, if at all. Given that, the thing you really need to pay attention to is any official announcement from the Ukrainian military or government that a Russian naval target was engaged. That would be proof enough for me given the circumstantial evidence appears to be piling up that something is burning in the Black Sea that has Russian naval search, rescue, and salvage assets deployed.
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May 6, 2022 15:55
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something is definitely going on, but until I see some official conformation and/or a picture of it burning I will remain skeptical, as there have been similar reports in the past that turned out to be nothing.
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Chalks posted:Holy poo poo if they let a bunch of people die and lose the ship just because they're trying to cover up it getting hit.... Then we can all rest easy that russia hasn't suddenly changed its ways....
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May 6, 2022 15:56
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Bubbacub posted:What kind of munition did Ukraine use on those two patrol boats they hit? Bayraktars, whatever missiles they fire.
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May 6, 2022 15:56
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Bubbacub posted:What kind of munition did Ukraine use on those two patrol boats they hit? Deteriorata posted:Bayraktars, whatever missiles they fire. One was actually deleted by a grad strike, when the Ukrainians lured it into a pre-targeted grid. This was, incidentally, the first ever ship sunk by indirect unguided rocket fire. Edit Yes, the two most recent Russian patrol boats sunk near Snake Island were hit by a BK2.
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May 6, 2022 15:58
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ZombieLenin posted:One was actually deleted by a grad strike, when the Ukrainians lured it into a pre-targeted grid. This was, incidentally, the first ever ship sunk by indirect unguided rocket fire. I think this was debunked
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May 6, 2022 15:59
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CommieGIR posted:Yeah there's a lot of evidence that something has happened to the ship, but apparently Russia is aware of the optics of Moskva 2.0 and didn't pop emergency beacons yet. Especially on the eve's eve's eve of Den Pobedy. If it's on fire they probably haven't even told papa Vova. Let him enjoy his Big Parade, then slip it into conversation as something that happened a while back, "oh I'm sure it was mentioned in last week's report on page 17".
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May 6, 2022 16:00
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ZombieLenin posted:We aren't likely to see that for days, if at all. Given that, the thing you really need to pay attention to is any official announcement from the Ukrainian military or government that a Russian naval target was engaged. That would be proof enough for me given the circumstantial evidence appears to be piling up that something is burning in the Black Sea that has Russian naval search, rescue, and salvage assets deployed. I mean there is this. https://twitter.com/ChuckPfarrer/status/1522590075959365633 https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-ship-admiral-makarov-ukraine-war-b2073007.html quote:Ukrainian presidential adviser Anton Gerashchenko reported on his Telegram page that the Admiral Makarov was hit by a Ukrainian “Neptune” anti-ship missile. He cited Russian sources.
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May 6, 2022 16:00
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Atreiden posted:Yea I posted the same tweet earlier  I'm trying to screen some of the more outlandish claims. There was a fake video posted of a burning ship, totally fake video game footage nothing looked right about it. Some lesser trusting accounts were saying two  ships were on fire, suggesting a double tap sort of strike but so far its essentially radio silence so w/e I doubt it unless it gets picked up by bigger names/osint/telegram channels Chalks posted:Holy poo poo if they let a bunch of people die and lose the ship just because they're trying to cover up it getting hit....
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May 6, 2022 16:00
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Frigate hit looking more plausible. But in my opinion, shooting down 3 Sukhoi 30's in two days is as remarkable and potentially as impactful (if true). https://twitter.com/MrKovalenko/status/1522327557664051200?cxt=HHwWgMDUpaO2sqAqAAAA
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May 6, 2022 16:03
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Speaking of snake Island, there was this strike earlier from a Bayraktar on a Tor anti-aircraft missile system. Nothing gory in the video, but near perfect music syncing.  https://twitter.com/ukraine_world/status/1522537516137697280
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May 6, 2022 16:06
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ringu0 posted:Regarding Neptunes: I've read in this thread that Ukraine never tested it, only produced three, and used two to sink Moskva. If — and it's a big "if", since it's still not confirmed — they used Neptunes against Makarov, did they actually have more of them? According to wikipiedia, they certainly tested it: quote:The first tests of the system were conducted on 22 March 2016, attended by Secretary of the National Security and Defense Council (NSDC) Oleksandr Turchynov. In mid-2017, Neptune missiles were tested concurrently with trials of the Vilkha missile complex. However, unlike the Vilkha, the test results and capabilities of the Neptune were not made public.[5] According to the press service of the NSDC, the first successful flight tests of the system took place on 30 January 2018.[6] On 17 August 2018, the missile successfully hit a target at a range of 100 kilometres (62 mi) during test firings in southern Odesa Oblast.[7] On 6 April 2019, the missile was again successfully tested, hitting targets during tests near Odesa. According to President Petro Poroshenko, Neptune system would be delivered to the Ukrainian military in December 2019.[8] Couldn't find out how many were delivered, but three seems very low. Maybe it was three launchers delivered? Edit: From the kyiv post, this was posted about year ago: quote:Following a number of successful live-fire tests in the Black Sea, the system was accepted for service in late August and was expected to be put for production as early as 2020. Ukraine’s navy in its turn requested at least three Neptune battalions, which means nearly 200 coastal cruise missiles in service by 2025. HappyHippo fucked around with this message at 16:15 on May 6, 2022 |
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May 6, 2022 16:10
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Some time from now in Sevastopol there's going to be some interesting discussions. : ...alright, boys, any questions? Yes, seaman? : Comrade Admiral, wasn't Makarov supposed to sail to port yesterday for rest and refit?: Well, I shouldn't be telling you, but... she went on a special operation.: Special operation, comrade? Like this war we are in?: No, no, no - a very special operation. Very hush hush.: But Kolya from the rescue tug boat crew said at pub that they were sent to look for Makarov and only found debris and an oil slick? : I said very special, very hush hush...
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May 6, 2022 16:11
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Atreiden posted:Speaking of snake Island, there was this strike earlier from a Bayraktar on a Tor anti-aircraft missile system. Nothing gory in the video, but near perfect music syncing. I have a feeling that we're going to be seeing Snake Island maps in many, many games in years to come. Also AzovStal.
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May 6, 2022 16:13
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the popes toes posted:Frigate hit looking more plausible. But in my opinion, shooting down 3 Sukhoi 30's in two days is as remarkable and potentially as impactful (if true). As for the ship, some footage definitely surfaces but who the hell knows, I can't tell by the pixels if it's fake Sprechensiesexy posted:Unconfirmed but hopefully true: mobby_6kl fucked around with this message at 16:20 on May 6, 2022 |
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May 6, 2022 16:18
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Fire up the stamp printers, Ukraine!
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May 6, 2022 16:19
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the popes toes posted:Frigate hit looking more plausible. But in my opinion, shooting down 3 Sukhoi 30's in two days is as remarkable and potentially as impactful (if true). Tough to tell what exactly got shot down. The Russian Su-30s have a range of modernizations on them but the airframe itself is pretty old. The latest upgrades are supposed to get them up to 4+ standard but it is also possible they are tossing the older airframes into the meat grinder and not risking their modernized fleet. Don't think there is any way anyone knows for sure exactly what variant got shot down.
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May 6, 2022 16:20
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The press conference is still going, I'll post a (long) summary after for the interested. But please know it extremely sucks.
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May 6, 2022 16:21
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HappyHippo posted:According to wikipiedia, they certainly tested it: I guess I meant "battle-tested", which on the second thought didn't make sense, because that would imply Ukraine was directly participating in an active maritime conflict after 2016, but before the invasion, or was selling weapons to someone who did — none of which I'm aware of. My thinking was I missed another piece of Neptune-related news. Thanks for the link, I didn't even think of hitting up Wikipedia to look at weapons systems 
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May 6, 2022 16:23
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CommieGIR posted:Yeah there's a lot of evidence that something has happened to the ship, but apparently Russia is aware of the optics of Moskva 2.0 and didn't pop emergency beacons yet. If this war doesn't go full-Clancy, I suspect that the stuff that will come out in subsequent years will be wild.
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May 6, 2022 16:26
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ringu0 posted:Regarding Neptunes: I've read in this thread that Ukraine never tested it, only produced three, and used two to sink Moskva. If — and it's a big "if", since it's still not confirmed — they used Neptunes against Makarov, did they actually have more of them? That was months ago, and unconfirmed. It's definitely believable that the Ukrainian military had only gotten very few production models until the war went hot. But that was months ago! They could have easily ramped up production since then. There's a good argument that the strikes against the cargo ship, the Moskva and now this frigate were possible very early on, but the Ukrainian forces had to wait until they could stockpile enough missiles for useful strikes.
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May 6, 2022 16:27
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Nenonen posted:I have a feeling that we're going to be seeing Snake Island maps in many, many games in years to come. Also AzovStal. If there isn't already an Arma3 mod for both then I'm officially turning in my gamer cred
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May 6, 2022 16:39
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Atreiden posted:I mean there is this. The reporting so far is that this ship was hit by a Ukrainian Neptune ASM; however, there is a trememdous amount of FoW surrounding this incident currently, so it is far from clear the reporting so far is accurate. Edit As people have been saying there is a a lot of circumstantial evidence that some naval asset of the Russian Federation is on fire in the Black Sea right now; however, there has not been any confirmation by either side. Until the Ukrainian military officially announces that they engaged a Russian naval vessel, I do not know how much faith you can put into any of the reporting around the incident, other than to say it appears something is burning in the Black Sea and Russian search, rescue, and salvage forces are involved. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 16:53 on May 6, 2022 |
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May 6, 2022 16:41
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Mr. Apollo posted:Another chemical plant fire, this time in Dzerzhinsk; "the most polluted place in the world". Come on, how bad can it really... quote:According to the September 12, 2007, study by the Blacksmith Institute, Dzerzhinsk is one of the worst-polluted cities of the world and has a life expectancy of 42 years for men and 47 for women, with the 2003 death rate exceeding its birth rate by 260%. 
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May 6, 2022 16:52
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KitConstantine posted:Presentation/Press conference by Russia: "The Permanent Mission of the Russian Federation will hold an informal meeting of the UN Security Council on "Systematic and mass grave violations of the international humanitarian law as well as other war crimes committed by the Ukrainian military personnel and militia and discovered in the course of ongoing special military operation of the Russian armed forces". I mean in all honesty, isn't it pretty likely that somewhere in Ukraine, this has in fact actually happened multiple times, and stupid Ukrainian military units have been fighting from buildings that knowingly still have civilians inside -- whether the civilians are stubborn idiots that refuse to move, or absolutely terrified and petrified and also refuse to move? Obviously they're not using them as "human shields" though since they know Russia has zero fucks to give about blowing up a building with civilians inside, so I certainly doubt it's the Ukrainian official SOP, but there's no way it has never happened either. E: Or does it only count as "human shields" if they put people into the building and/or prevent people from leaving who want to, and not referring to civilians who live there normally who have time and opportunity to move, and don't? VVV : Ah, well then. It's Russia so of course it's the dumbest claim. Never mind. Saladman fucked around with this message at 17:01 on May 6, 2022 |
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May 6, 2022 16:53
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Saladman posted:I mean in all honesty, isn't it pretty likely that somewhere in Ukraine, this has in fact actually happened multiple times, and stupid Ukrainian military units have been fighting from buildings that knowingly still have civilians inside -- whether the civilians are stubborn idiots that refuse to move, or absolutely terrified and petrified and also refuse to move? Obviously they're not using them as "human shields" though since they know Russia has zero fucks to give about blowing up a building with civilians inside, so I certainly doubt it's the Ukrainian official SOP, but there's no way it has never happened either. Russia isn't claiming it's happenstance, they're claiming its systematic and SOP
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May 6, 2022 16:56
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The more I hear about the Russian navy, the worse it gets. US/UK have long histories of naval battles, and long history of dealing with the no.1 enemy at sea - fire. It's why everything is kept so clean, doors kept shut, discipline etc. One of those 'learned from many bloody lessons'. I take it the Russian navy never really had that lesson until now. Any fire on board is either put out in <15 minutes, or it's taking your ship down. A strike that would just wound a western ship & crew is absolutely lethal against a Potemkin navy like this.
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May 6, 2022 16:59
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ringu0 posted:Regarding Neptunes: I've read in this thread that Ukraine never tested it, only produced three, and used two to sink Moskva. If — and it's a big "if", since it's still not confirmed — they used Neptunes against Makarov, did they actually have more of them? There was a Neptun test-fire campaign in 2019. The statement was specifically that Ukraine had 3 Neptun missiles ready at the start of the war. The same statement also added that there were parts for more missiles ready, and that while the building where they were held was cruise missiled on day one, they were lucky in that the missile parts were not damaged. The unstated but implied addition was that after the war started, they built more of them out of the ready parts. They probably have more such missiles ready now. ZombieLenin posted:I think they were delivered a single battery, which is typically 5 to 6 missiles iirc. Their first order is for a coastal missile division, which would include a radar vehicle, a command vehicle, and six launch batteries which each consist of a launcher vehicle with 4 tubes, a reloader vehicle that carries 4 missiles and can reload them onto the launcher, and a transporter which carriers 4 missiles (and needs the reloader vehicle to load them onto the launcher). So the total amount of missiles in tubes per division is 24, with an additional 48 in support vehicles. This was supposed to be delivered by the end of April, but it was rumored to be at least somewhat delayed before the war. In January, the Ukrainian Navy celebrated "initial operational capacity", which implied at least one of each necessary vehicle and one missile. ZombieLenin posted:One was actually deleted by a grad strike, when the Ukrainians lured it into a pre-targeted grid. This was, incidentally, the first ever ship sunk by indirect unguided rocket fire. That was sadly probably one of those civilian ships that the Russians ordered to sail towards the coast in front of them. The Ukrainians at first happily announced that they hit a Russian ship with grads, and there was some indistinct fire recorded on the horizon, but then all the Russian ships in the operation returned to Sevastopol seemingly unharmed, and later it came out that the Russians were forcing civilian ships that were stuck in the area to "minesweep" for them, and some of them were announced burning with casualties. HappyHippo posted:Couldn't find out how many were delivered, but three seems very low. The "three delivered" was from Tetiana Chornovol, an Ukrainian Stugna-P operator, ex-MP and anti-corruption crusader who was complaining about lack of preparation and readiness for the war. I have no idea where she got her information from. https://censor.net/ru/news/3334018/posle_obstrelov_skladov_kb_luch_vse_sborki_neptunov_obnarujili_nevredimymi_vyvezli_organizovali_dorabotku
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May 6, 2022 17:00
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ZombieLenin posted:Yes, the two most recent Russian patrol boats sunk near Snake Island were hit by a BK2. Atreiden posted:Speaking of snake Island, there was this strike earlier from a Bayraktar on a Tor anti-aircraft missile system. Nothing gory in the video, but near perfect music syncing. The fact that Ukraine still has flying BK2s loaded with AGMs seems like a drat miracle. I would have assumed that they expended all of both in the early ground war.
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May 6, 2022 17:07
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Okay it's finally over - I'm splitting this into two posts because it was long AF. This post will cover notes on the initial presentations of 'evidence' by the Russian Representative to the UN. Link to his statement on this meeting on the Russian Mission site - https://russiaun.ru/en/news/unsc_050522 Feel free to skip this, it's nothing really new propaganda-wise. Also note there were tech issues throughout the meeting Vasily Nebenzya presenting to start "Crimes of Ukrainian army and Militia commited in the context of RU special operation" - Sharing 'accounts of residents from eastern/southern Ukraine and journalists working in these areas' - aka lots of Russian news coverage videos -- Ukraine committed Bucha provocations, not Russia - Saying Ukraine is violating international law by using civilian architecture for hiding equipment, using Ukrainian civilians as shields -- shows pictures of equipment by bombed out civilian buildings, but since both sides use the same equipment it's hard to say who's it is, also no civilians seen in the pictures - They have videos of civilians from the area talking about how there's firing from civilian areas, but notably a lot of them don't actually mention that it's the Ukrainians doing these things, just that 'soldiers' are. The videos are edited pretty heavily. And Some are pretty clearly of people who are currently in Russian custody. - Some of the videos have people that look pretty clean for having been 'trapped' in mariupol for weeks. -- some are probably genuine but it's mixed with a lot of pretty clear edits and fakes ---previously it's been proved that Russia deceptively edited interviews with Ukr civilians to make them seem favorable to Russia - [b]Projection projection projection projection[b] ---- I wish I spoke Russian, I'm not sure how accurate these translations are. Also again so many super clean clothes on a lot of these people claiming the Ukrainian army/TDF kept them in basements - "85% of destructions in Mariupol was caused by the Ukrainian army" Uh Huh. the city that was surrounded for weeks by Russians, yet somehow the UAF brought in mortars to destroy the city --literally repeating accounts from Bucha/Irpin survivors word for word and attributing them to Ukrainians. Literally word for word. - DMITRY POLYANSKY - Russia’s First Deputy Permanent Representative to the UN - also in attendance --introduced a creepy video filmed in night vision of a traumatized girl who is claiming Azov shot at her family. She looks miserable, it's quite upsetting. Filmed in Russia after she was 'evacuated' --- the man who interviewed her was 'supposed to be there but couldn't make it suddenly' - claimed that western journalists 'engage in censorship and distort the information from witnesses' -- article discussed as an example of this - https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/mariupol-evacuee-recounts-heart-stopping-terror-bunkers-azovstal-2022-05-01 --- Tried to show the video but it glitched out  its at the link above--- apparently there's a longer version that was shown in 'Russian media ' where she talks about how she hates Ukraine - I was not able to find this, but maybe someone else could? --- I did find Russian language articles where she claims Azov had a 'general' in the steel works --- note this was filmed later after she was evacuated to a Russian-held city in Donetsk - more filmed witnesses. I thought they were going to bring in some of these escaped survivors but it's all video accounts. Weird that  -- also a lot of the videos aren't working? - Discussed cruelty of Ukrainian military to Russian POWs -- there is real video of this. Thankfully Russia didn't show any. Nebenzya begins introducing the Journalists that are the 'witnesses' he claimed would be attending. I have included some notes on the background of each journalist and their relationship with Russia/Russian narratives Journalists listed in order of appearance - Anne Laure Bonnel - french journalist - directed a film called 'Donbass', is known for her Pro-Russian journalism -- article https://goadnews.com/donbass-war-reporter-sues-liberation-for-defamation-rt-in-french/ -- Called for peaceful disarmament, pretty short remarks - most of her time taken showing clips from her documentary 'Donbass" - Giorgio Bianchi - Italian photojournalist/documentarian. Also filmed a documentary about Donbas -- Pushed the 'Mariupol maternity hospital bombing wasn't that bad' conspiracy. He was the one who interviewed the girl who was photographed after the bombing- said interview took place in Russia -- Blacklisted by Ukraine and is bigmad about it - Salem Abdel Munem - also a photojournalist "Head of the Moscow Bureau of the Al Mayadeen TV channel" -- Also filmed a documentary in Donbas and Ukraine, showed a portion of it. --- 'Ukrainians destroyed hospitals', claimed the Drama Theater was possibly destroyed by Ukrainians not Russians. --- Had a lot of access to the theater, interviewed Russian troops who claimed it was Azov that blew it up. loving gross --- 'I have lived in Russia for many years and Russians do not want war' - Sonja van den Ende - Dutch freelance journalist, has a profile on VK (russian social media) and has published for Covert Action Magazine, -- Cited specifically by a Dutch newspaper as a promoter of Russian disinformation - https://tvpworld.com/59683101/dutch-newspaper-warns-against-russian-disinformation-in-western-media -- also believes covid-19 conspiracy theories -- A mayor was indeed kidnapped but was then released!!!also he's a member of right sector/Azov and is now 'on a European tour' -- She is being censored!!! *appears in UN Press conference* -- Does Europe want a third world war because it seems like it since they don't let journalists go to Russia (???) --- Also repeats the claim that the theater was blown up by Ukrainians not Russia ----This lady loving suuuucks -- Have to hear both sides!!! - Asya Zuan - works for a Bulgarian extension of a Russian News org that operates out of Crimea -- article about NewsFront https://securingdemocracy.gmfus.org...-for-vigilance/ -- Starts with a quote 'the last war between people will be the war for truth [...]" - does not cite who said it --- Was apparently told that if she participated in this meeting 'she would never be allowed back to Bulgaria' but did it anyway. She is very brave. ---- Note: this lady does *not* look healthy, but could just be poo poo lighting -- Her reporting in Donbas got her blacklisted in Ukraine I think? It's not super clear. She's v mad about it tho -- Big Mad about Azov, information warfare, and the US supplying weapons to Ukraine -- Asked questions to the US --- Why is the US giving money for weapons and not just for Humanitarian Aid?? 'Ukrainians don't need weapons'  --- If the US didn't provide weapons and 'force other countries to provide weapons' there would be no war in Ukraine --- repeats the US biolabs in Ukraine conspiracy -- Ukraine blocked commercial shipping into the Mariupol harbor...somehow? via mines I guess. Though it's unclear how they were deployed ---- This lady is talking the most so far but I don't think she has a documentary to promote so no clips -- 'About information war' - Angelina Jolie visited Ukraine and this is very upsetting to Asya --- 'Why didn't you come to Donbas for the last 8 years??' Whataboutism in it's purest form -- 'Stop this war' by 'stopping the supply of weapons to Ukraine' because then there will be no war  --- The special operation is to stop the USA from using...Ukraine...for "this terrible war"? I think she's saying the US is waging war on Donbas? not clear - wait nevermind she did end up showing a video -- Lol the lady she's interviewing couldn't even remember the name 'azov'. Much credible. NOTE: - Patrick Lancaster - American 'journalist' was listed as attending, but then didn't. Thought the better of it I guess -- I'll just leave this here -[url] https://www.grid.news/story/misinformation/2022/04/18/russias-favorite-war-propagandist-is-a-navy-veteran-from-missouri/ [/url] Second post will have the various delegations' responses to the above. KitConstantine fucked around with this message at 17:34 on May 6, 2022 |
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May 6, 2022 17:31
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KitConstantine posted:- claimed that western journalists 'engage in censorship and distort the information from witnesses' It was pretty clear that Reuters interviewed her separately, as she's in a different place compared to the Russian video from RIA. The Russian video doesn't include anything from the Reuters one, they are just two different videos.
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May 6, 2022 17:38
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And second half: - Nebenzya "if any members want to answer questions they can' and opened the floor to member states for statements or to ask the 'witnesses' questions -- The Russian mission to the UN will have all the materials presented today available on their site (they're not up yet, I checked) UN representatives replied: India - very carefully avoided saying who did what in Ukraine, called for peace and to prevent the deaths of civilians Mexico - Immediately said Russia was violating humanitarian rights and international law, said 'all perpetrators' should be brought to justice - supported establishment of Independent investigation of human rights violations, including by the ICC France - "Russia will not succeed in transforming into realities the fantasies it uses to justify it's atrocities and aggressions towards Ukraine" -- went in HARD calling out Russia for it's actions and calling for an 'independent and impartial' investigation to hold perpetrators accountable - France is supporting the ICC investigation in Ukraine financially to the tune 500K euros and has investigators on the ground in Ukraine - Obliquely called out Lavrov's comments regarding Hitler - Nebenzya - Got mad about France's comments and said that 'Ukraine nationalist battalions' committed atrocities and that is what will be documented UAE - said hate speech is bad  must figure out the impartial facts on the ground. All journalists matter- called for more humanitarian corridors, 'deeply concerned' about the toll this war is having on civilians and called for an end to hostilities Norway - "Yet again we are witnessing Russia's misuse of the UN and it's privileged position in it" "the intensity of this disinformation campaign is alarming" - Russia hasn't presented evidence or cooperated with investigations into allegations of humanitarian violations in Ukraine -- Norway going even harder than France - 'this is a war of choice' - 'unimaginable atrocities/war crimes committed against civilians by Russia and their Proxies' - Nebenzya - whaaaaa what do you mean??? Russia isn't presenting this, we just brought in a bunch of Russia-aligned journalists to 'testify' and provide 'evidence' Albania - See France and Norway's comments, but goes even further and calls out Russia's "indiscriminate" shelling of civilian areas and hospitals in specific - the ICC has not found any evidence of the crimes Russia claims Ukraine committed, but they are investigating Russia's crimes - Nebenzya still performatively puzzled by accusations of Russia generating misinformation Ghana - Very similar to UAE - there should be independent impartial investigations to make sure whoever committed crimes is brought to justice - 'deeply concerned' about the military escalations that led to these human rights violations, calls for an immediate cessations of hostilities and return to diplomacy Ireland - See: Norway, Albania, France - Calls out the Russian military committing torture, rape, indiscriminate violence against civilians United States - "will not legitimize" the presentation today with a long statement - said Russia's abuse of their position in the UN/Security Council is not new and has been going on for years - Stop the war, stop using the Security Council to spread lies and disinformation United Kingdom - "It is often said of Propaganda that a lie told often enough becomes the truth" - Called out that Russia illegally annexed Crimea in 2014, fueled the conflict in eastern Ukraine, shot down a plane and blamed Ukraine, and then attacked Ukraine unprovoked - See France, Norway, Albania - Nebenzya is salty about UK not allowing them to call an 'urgent meeting' of the security council about Bucha Kenya - See UAE, Ghana - All allegations should be taken seriously, everyone involved should agree to aid investigations, cooperate with said investigations, and abide by the decisions made by same. - Gently calls out Russia for inflaming their civilian populations with 'existential rhetoric' and discussions of nuclear weapon use. It was very oblique but if you know what Russian media has been saying it was unmistakable. Gabon - See UAE, Ghana, Kenya, but specifically mentions that refugees are at great risk - "There are no war crimes without war [...] War is absurd and dehumanizing" - *Both Parties* must negotiate in good faith (seemed pointed to me but I'm biased) Brazil - Thanked Russia for the "information available at the QR code link" - Civilians that decide to stay cannot become targets of attack, both sides must allow humanitarian assistance to get to those civilians - 'there must be no politicization of humanitarian actions, nor discrimination in providing it' - Favors independent investigation, perpetrators must be held accountable (familiar refrain) China - "deeply saddened by the increasing civilian casualties in Ukraine" and calls on both sides to minimize damage and faciltate evacuation/humanitarian aid - POWs must be treated in accordance with International Law - Very 'both sides' style repeating of the same points as Brazil/India/etc. - Called for the continuation of negotiations to end the war -- Seemed very low key for China, no 'both sides'ing, no accusations thrown at the US. Interesting. Syria - Unsurprisingly they are all-in with Russia - says that this meeting 'showed the truth' of what is happening in Ukraine - Condemns 'disinformation, false accusations, and fabricated video audio' that is being spread in Europe/the US to 'discredit the Russian Federation' - Ahhh here's the 'NATO/US is just as bad!!!' that I expected to come from China - calls out Raqqua as a symbol of this 'double standard' - WHATABOUT the Donesk and Luhansk regions??? - Strongly condemns the Ukrainian Army for their crimes 'Briefers' now have a chance to reply - Nebenzya said to 'keep their remarks brief' - calling out Asya Zuan who speaks first Asya Zuan - specifically yells at Ireland, Norway, UK for accusing Russia of killing civilians - "Have you ever been to Donbas???" "are you ready to personally visit civilians in Donbas and ask who is shooting?" -- Nebenzya isn't typical that she asked questions, but no one asked her questions "there was no interactive dialogue as there should have been" and moves on Sonja van den Ende - mentions EU members of UN - says they 'only talk of one side' "do they want a world war or what" - Why didn't they ask the 'journalists' questions, only taking one side 'isn't justice' Salem Abdel Munem - responds to accusations of Russian abuse of UN/Security Council - whatabout WMD claims by US -- he's from Iraq originally - "why does the west do everything to achieve the defeat of Russia? Does the West want a third world war?" Nebenzya closing remarks -thanks the journalists and 'especially' the people they interviewed for giving an account under terrible conditions about 'how these conditions became possible' - They clearly said "who is to blame" unlike western news, which does not present 'true accounts' - "Maybe it is comfortable to be comfortably numb" but it "will not change the truth" Aaaaand done. I know probably no one else really cares that much, but I think it's interesting.
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May 6, 2022 17:39
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quote:He stated that there would no longer be a border between Poland and Ukraine for decades, or even centuries." True, if Ukraine joins the EU :v
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May 6, 2022 17:39
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Possible switchblade footage. Some soldiers may have been harmed but it's not clear if there were any where it strikes https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1522573394855743488
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May 6, 2022 17:48
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https://twitter.com/OstapYarysh/status/1522617758973845504
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May 6, 2022 17:55
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quote:"He stated that there would no longer be a border between Poland and Ukraine for decades, or even centuries."
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May 6, 2022 17:59
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That's some good symbolism, alright. Putin gets to have his fascist parade, while on the other side of the world the arsenal of democracy spins up once again to fight nazis in Europe. History rhyming, as it does.
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May 6, 2022 18:03
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Atreiden posted:I mean there is this. i am certainly not an expert on this subject but i am unaware of anything that you can say about a boat, especially a military one, that is worse than "on fire" besides "already sunk" or "exploded"
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May 6, 2022 18:05
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KitConstantine posted:Aaaaand done. I know probably no one else really cares that much, but I think it's interesting. Thanks for doing this. I'm not sure how much any of their words matter, but it was still worthwhile to read.
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May 6, 2022 18:06
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Well! https://twitter.com/irgarner/status/1522593765923373058?cxt=HHwWhICysdG9q6EqAAAA e: Andrey Yakovlev is the Consul General of Russia in Edinburgh
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May 6, 2022 18:07
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Russia sure loves to attack Poland. I honestly want them to test their loving mettle against the polish army and get rocked once again. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 6, 2022 18:09
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