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hatty
Feb 28, 2011

Pork Pro
Araki should write more fights on trains is what I’m hearing

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Momomo
Dec 26, 2009

Dont judge me, I design your manhole
My problem with part 5 is less about the fights (though King Crimson is definitely a case of Araki trying too hard) and more about the non fight parts. Part 5 is sandwiched between 4 and 6, which both have really fun casts with downtime that allowed the characters to show off. Part 5 has this... For every character except the main one. I never felt like Giorno was actually part of the group, he felt more like a silent protagonist in a JRPG.

Giorno and everything to do with him really hold part 5 down, and it's made even worse because he's right after Josuke and right before Jolyne, who are two of the best Jojo's.

Darko
Dec 23, 2004

Momomo posted:

My problem with part 5 is less about the fights (though King Crimson is definitely a case of Araki trying too hard) and more about the non fight parts. Part 5 is sandwiched between 4 and 6, which both have really fun casts with downtime that allowed the characters to show off. Part 5 has this... For every character except the main one. I never felt like Giorno was actually part of the group, he felt more like a silent protagonist in a JRPG.

Giorno and everything to do with him really hold part 5 down, and it's made even worse because he's right after Josuke and right before Jolyne, who are two of the best Jojo's.

For me, at that time, I had Duwang, whatever 5 was and whatever 6 was, so it was more about kind of figuring out what the characters were supposed to be saying while taking in how fantastic the fights were written and realized. Josuke, Giorno (Zipperman is still the main protagonist of that one, imo), and Joleyne were all flat so more relied on the art and how well crafted the Stand fights were.

Princess Futon
Sep 10, 2013

"What about your integrity as a writer?"
"What integrity?"

Darko posted:

For me, at that time, I had Duwang, whatever 5 was and whatever 6 was, so it was more about kind of figuring out what the characters were supposed to be saying while taking in how fantastic the fights were written and realized. Josuke, Giorno (Zipperman is still the main protagonist of that one, imo), and Joleyne were all flat so more relied on the art and how well crafted the Stand fights were.

I would defend Jolyne from the accusation of being a purely "flat" character (and apologies if this was mostly in reference to Duwang specifically). From the flashbacks and first few chapters, we can see she's a pretty average young woman, very much playing up the role of "cutesy sweetheart" with her rich boyfriend. When the car crash happens, she ends up getting pretty much walked all over by him and agreeing to his insistence that "We hide the body, it'll be fine" (Granted I could understand her being in pretty severe shock at this moment). Being betrayed and thrown into prison with a 15 year sentence forces her to immediately harden up so as to survive the hierarchy of prison life. By the end of the Savage Garden arc, she's gone from someone who relies on others (her boyfriend, lawyer, Jotaro) to rescue her to someone who makes her own plans and puts her life on the line to accomplish them.

I do think the problem is that after the Savage Garden arc, that's kind of where her character development stops, and she definitely hits the point of being a more flat character comparable to Josuke and Giorno (it makes me wonder if Hermes suddenly getting a backstory after this arc was partly because of that). Which was fine for me and probably other readers, she's still a very fun character, but it's totally understandable that some readers might find a character with such a short developmental arc to seem a bit on the plain side once they get to the end of the story. It feels like Part 7 and Johnny hit that sweet spot for character progression and pacing, where even in the last third it still felt like he was changing and developing, instead of just hitting the "I'm strong/confident now" point and that being that.

Darko
Dec 23, 2004

I was referring to the early fantranslations where no dialogue referred correctly, making every main character equally as non-compelling and it being entirely about how they were portrayed in art and how they fought due to the nature of the translations. That was also partially why a lot of people have no idea what the hell Dragon's Dream does.

Also why you started seeing a shift in how people received 4/5/6 as better translations came out and characters were actually defined.

Son of Thunderbeast
Sep 21, 2002
This rules
https://twitter.com/JojoGTranslated/status/1521052779938148352






zetamind2000
Nov 6, 2007

I'm an alien.

No Dignity
Oct 15, 2007


So it was Jonathan's Stand!

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you
Dio Brando became God is Adorable.

YggdrasilTM
Nov 7, 2011

So this is the heir to Joest, the only son of a horse! Psychological stress lurks around the corner. I challenge you, Lord, the heir of King Jesus!

Angry_Ed
Mar 30, 2010




Grimey Drawer

MonsterEnvy posted:

Dio Brando became God is Adorable.

And Dario became Darius Z Brandons

Son of Thunderbeast
Sep 21, 2002

Angry_Ed
Mar 30, 2010




Grimey Drawer

Blueberry Pancakes
Aug 18, 2012

Jack in!! MegaMan, Execute!

Honestly, if he was saying this to Dio, it wouldn't be too far off from canon.

Brandfarlig
Nov 5, 2009

These colours don't run.

Star Platinum
May 5, 2010

Insert Giorno and Bucciarati making the angry Zeppeli face

Kaiser Mazoku
Mar 24, 2011

Didn't you see it!? Couldn't you see my "spirit"!?
Duwang is back, baby.

Also new reaction image:



Kaiser Mazoku fucked around with this message at 01:07 on May 6, 2022

Xand_Man
Mar 2, 2004

If what you say is true
Wutang might be dangerous



How dare you post this and not the next panels

Xand_Man
Mar 2, 2004

If what you say is true
Wutang might be dangerous


Won't someone just please clarify for Jonathan what a mouse is

Kaiser Mazoku
Mar 24, 2011

Didn't you see it!? Couldn't you see my "spirit"!?
His horse racing alternate universe counterpart certainly knows.

Xand_Man
Mar 2, 2004

If what you say is true
Wutang might be dangerous




Relationship speedrun

Son of Thunderbeast
Sep 21, 2002
I have to know how/why the EU keeps coming up lol

Kaiser Mazoku
Mar 24, 2011

Didn't you see it!? Couldn't you see my "spirit"!?
Dio supported Brexit.

Funky Valentine
Feb 26, 2014

Dojyaa~an

Augus
Mar 9, 2015



Funky Valentine
Feb 26, 2014

Dojyaa~an

Electric Phantasm
Apr 7, 2011

YOSPOS


No Dignity
Oct 15, 2007

This is incredible

Dragonwagon
Mar 28, 2010


And that, as much as anything else, led to my drinking problem.
I'm dying

Electric Phantasm
Apr 7, 2011

YOSPOS


Okay forget the dialogue, what the hell is actually happening here?

hatty
Feb 28, 2011

Pork Pro

Son of Thunderbeast
Sep 21, 2002
It's hamon training

zetamind2000
Nov 6, 2007

I'm an alien.

Lol young jonathan owns

Kaiser Mazoku
Mar 24, 2011

Didn't you see it!? Couldn't you see my "spirit"!?

zetamind2000 posted:

Lol young jonathan owns

Yeah it's easy to forget he could be a little poo poo at times.

Electric Phantasm
Apr 7, 2011

YOSPOS

hosed up the anime cut that out.

Asterite34
May 19, 2009



Because early Jojo's was really lacking in confusing animal cruelty

At least the crow didn't get hit by the rock and explode into gore?

FirstAidKite
Nov 8, 2009

Asterite34 posted:

Because early Jojo's was really lacking in confusing animal cruelty

At least the crow didn't get hit by the rock and explode into gore?

Maybe that's the catbird

Man I wanna see what catbird's up to, would've been a good jobro

Asterite34
May 19, 2009



FirstAidKite posted:

Maybe that's the catbird

Man I wanna see what catbird's up to, would've been a good jobro

God that's like something out of a Lovecraft story, Dio's creepy chimeric familiar lurking around to this day like Brown Jenkin in The Dreams in the Witch House

Xand_Man
Mar 2, 2004

If what you say is true
Wutang might be dangerous


This page is a work of modern art



:tif:


:same:

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FirstAidKite
Nov 8, 2009
A neat little detail I like with Phantom Blood is how before Jonathan dies he spills his wine.

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