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Cyrano4747 posted:She's not wrong, that poo poo happens. It's happened to people in my family where they basically became "that bitch" in the office until they left. And then file a constructive dismissal claim if you live in a developed country, or in certain parts of America.
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May 17, 2022 20:59
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What's the legality/dismissability around forgetting the hit PM and accidentally dropping 'Please stop messaging me, I recently found out you are a convicted rapist, you sexually assaulted an unconscious woman, I don't feel safe around you even in an online setting. In the interests of not embarrassing you, I'll give you one last chance, but if you message me again I'll be filing a complaint with HR' into the group chat? followed by 'oops, forgot to PM *animerapist*, please ignore my last post'.
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May 17, 2022 20:59
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Fitzy Fitz posted:It's staff appreciation week, so we all got a framed picture of our boss's signature. His name is on there twice actually. So you can appreciate it twice daily for the rest of the year?
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May 17, 2022 21:15
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Fitzy Fitz posted:It's staff appreciation week, so we all got a framed picture of our boss's signature. His name is on there twice actually. Do you feel appreciated
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May 17, 2022 21:30
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Dongsturm posted:So you can appreciate it twice daily for the rest of the year? So you can use it to forge your own bonus paperwork! It's already approved by the head honcho boss, just run it to HR.
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May 17, 2022 21:46
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Yorkshire Pudding posted:Here’s some dumb poo poo my partner’s work is doing that led to creepy poo poo. IT can't like, restrict him being able to see her camera?
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May 18, 2022 01:10
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Pyrtanis posted:IT can't like, restrict him being able to see her camera? That seems to be avoiding the problem though rather than dealing with it?
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May 18, 2022 01:14
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She needs to do this now. Its training period, this is when he can be most easily fired in most companies no questions.
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May 18, 2022 01:19
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TheSpartacus posted:That seems to be avoiding the problem though rather than dealing with it? I wholeheartedly agree, but it's an easy mitigation while they investigate and purge the creep, and I'm sure it would make her feel better working in the interim.
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May 18, 2022 01:21
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This is the one case where HR will take care of the problem And if they don't, a lawyer would love to fix it on contingency Edit: seems perfectly reasonable to not have a webcam on if someone doesn't feel safe though either way. It really sucks that she has to deal with that. tak fucked around with this message at 01:33 on May 18, 2022 |
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May 18, 2022 01:26
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Pyrtanis posted:IT can't like, restrict him being able to see her camera? This isn't really a thing, no.
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May 18, 2022 01:40
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Pyrtanis posted:IT can't like, restrict him being able to see her camera? It's a zoom call. Everyone's camera is broadcast to everyone. It's all or nothing.
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May 18, 2022 01:43
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Just to stress even in hell (america) unless this is some tiny mom and pop shop there is 0% chance saying to HR and management "hey this new hire is a convicted rapist and is harassing me during probation (and I think Im coming down with a legal case)" that they dont exit him immediately and if they dont a mountain of lawyers is gonna crawl out of the woodwork.
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May 18, 2022 01:44
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Agreed with everything everyone is saying, and it seems to me that this is a pretty clear cut case of “go straight to HR”. She said something today so we’ll see how that goes. But because we live in hell world where the stupidest and most evil outcome is usually what happens, I’m expecting the company to say “we’re paying both you and anime rapist to fly out to our office for a small group team building exercise so you two can work this out alone!”
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May 18, 2022 02:06
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Yorkshire Pudding posted:Agreed with everything everyone is saying, and it seems to me that this is a pretty clear cut case of “go straight to HR”. She said something today so we’ll see how that goes. Yeah that would be going straight to a lawyer time.
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May 18, 2022 02:08
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Cyrano4747 posted:quit and find a new job I get what you’re saying here, but you must realise that for vast numbers of people, this is not a feasible solution. If someone was harassing me at work and HR was doing nothing about it, I would have to put up with it while looking for a new job, we can’t afford for me not to be working, and I imagine there are a lot of people in the exact same situation.
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May 18, 2022 07:06
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Scientastic posted:I get what you’re saying here, but you must realise that for vast numbers of people, this is not a feasible solution. There's no good option here because society is hell but anonymously outing him as a convicted rapist to the rest of the staff might work out. It's risky but it sounds likely he's still a danger and not many people are going to want to work in the same team as someone like that. But also be looking for another job because that'll blowback one way or another.
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May 18, 2022 07:57
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Poil posted:Why are so many businesses run in a way akin to shooting themselves in the foot, repeatably? Gotta hit those quarterly targets no matter what. Next quarter? May not be here, who even knows if we get a third quarter this year.
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May 18, 2022 10:16
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This reminds me that at my last job, the HR assistant/recruiter, who has quite literally said they took the job last year because they were, "lonely and wanted to check out all the [company name] queers," apparently had multiple sexual harassment complaints levied against them not long after my termination. A few folks who have been there for a while complained and nothing happened, but a newbie hire was almost immediately harassed and did the smart thing and told the company, "fix this or my lawyer will fix it for you." So the company did the smart thing and... that HR person is still assisting with HR business but has been "demoted" to another department in the basement of the building!  This is the same person who immediately started hitting on me the moment my partner left the company. So glad I'm out of there.
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May 18, 2022 13:26
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Barudak posted:Just to stress even in hell (america) unless this is some tiny mom and pop shop there is 0% chance saying to HR and management "hey this new hire is a convicted rapist and is harassing me during probation (and I think Im coming down with a legal case)" that they dont exit him immediately and if they dont a mountain of lawyers is gonna crawl out of the woodwork. Hell, want to bet he lied on the “were you ever convicted of a crime?” question in hiring? That alone should usually do it.
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May 18, 2022 14:10
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The place I'm contracted out to (a Shell chemical plant) has the worst worker/management ratio I've ever seen. This is a union plant BTW. The maintenance department has 5 managers, how many maintenance workers (electricians and mechanics)? 1. 1 electrician. Any mechanical failure they have to call in an outside contractor. There might be 15 or so operators in the plant, but there is a shipping manager, hiring manager, plant manager, process manager, production manager, and lab manager not counting the 5 maintenance managers above. I'm a controls engineer. I work on PLCs and DCSs, I'm here under the maintenance budget but also do engineering scope work with other engineering firms on site. There's a Shell controls engineer on site, but maintenance rather have me here 40 hours a week then have to deal with him. I do his job anyway, anytime a question or work needs to be done on the controls system, they go to him, then he tells me to do it. I don't mind it, it's pretty stress free here and it's a short drive to work.
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May 18, 2022 14:24
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tak posted:This is the one case where HR will take care of the problem HR: slightly less worse than lawyers
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May 18, 2022 14:49
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dervinosdoom posted:I do his job anyway, anytime a question or work needs to be done on the controls system, they go to him, then he tells me to do it. Looks like you miscounted and there are 6 managers
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May 18, 2022 15:20
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Machai posted:Looks like you miscounted and there are 6 managers Yeah, I missed one.
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May 18, 2022 15:33
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naem posted:HR: slightly less worse than lawyers Most depts at my MegaCorp are informal about hierarchy and I'll get emails from directors or VPs for requests. But HR is weirdly the most attached to their org chart and a director will have a subordinate email us short requests rather than do it themselves. HR seems terrified of anyone higher up in the food chain, because if this tiny request isn't completed ASAP a VP could get an unneeded email! (VP is mellow and unaware of the issue)
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May 18, 2022 16:26
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Hyrax Attack! posted:Most depts at my MegaCorp are informal about hierarchy and I'll get emails from directors or VPs for requests. But HR is weirdly the most attached to their org chart and a director will have a subordinate email us short requests rather than do it themselves. HR seems terrified of anyone higher up in the food chain, because if this tiny request isn't completed ASAP a VP could get an unneeded email! (VP is mellow and unaware of the issue) HR knows the importance of insulating themselves and also make-work busy bullshit. They keep these middlepersons around so when the C*3-level says 'We need layoffs!' and HR says 'Sure'!' and people say 'Well what the gently caress HR isn't laying anyone off!' HR can say 'Yes we are!' and dump the loyal middleperson like a sack of poo poo without impacting their workflow. That's what I'd do if I was a useless HR manager instead of a useless director. If I have to lay people off the first person to go is me, to a better run organization. Speaking of which, after having left the industry 8 years ago, apparently my old CEO asked about me recently and I still have a standing offer of employment. It's tempting. Outrail fucked around with this message at 17:28 on May 18, 2022 |
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May 18, 2022 17:23
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Outrail posted:HR knows the importance of insulating themselves and also make-work busy bullshit. They keep these middlepersons around so when the C*3-level says 'We need layoffs!' and HR says 'Sure'!' and people say 'Well what the gently caress HR isn't laying anyone off!' HR can say 'Yes we are!' and dump the loyal middleperson like a sack of poo poo without impacting their workflow. rank in the military let’s organizations maintain effectiveness in the face of, people exploding, so you know who does what after and missions are accomplished HR attempts to recreate this structure at Dunder Mifflin since, instead of exploding its HR firing people for sucking. so the, paper, gets, sold the informal work buddy system doesn’t hold up in court due to lawyers being bad (even badder than HR) HR: mildly annoying LAWYERS: actively evil
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May 18, 2022 17:36
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Hyrax Attack! posted:Most depts at my MegaCorp are informal about hierarchy and I'll get emails from directors or VPs for requests. But HR is weirdly the most attached to their org chart and a director will have a subordinate email us short requests rather than do it themselves. HR seems terrified of anyone higher up in the food chain, because if this tiny request isn't completed ASAP a VP could get an unneeded email! (VP is mellow and unaware of the issue) There's a gently caress off big quarterly report I build from information submitted by all the different parts of my organization. The sort of thing where I've got an email list for all the department heads (or the person they delegated this to - it's kinda poo poo work) and everyone just builds out their info with whatever internal methods they use, and then send it along to me. Everyone does it a little different but for the most part it looks like this: 1) I email the head of the Department of Widgets. 2) They say "OK, I'll get it in" 3) Magic happens 4) Department of Widgets info shows up in my in-box with plenty of time for me to put together the report before it's due. The one completely insane outlier is HR. Frankly they shouldn't even be on this report but I guess they felt left out. Their department head insists on micromanaging everything, so all communication flows through them, but also insists that everything get signed off on like two levels above them. They're roping director level people in on this crap who frankly shouldn't be bothered. So with them it goes: 1) I email the head of HR, saying I need their stuff. 2) my email gets forwarded to their underling. 3) underling #1 forwards it to the person below them. 4) repeat for few more steps. I'm CC'd on all this. 5) eventually the poo poo trickles far enough down-hill that it lands on the desk of someone who has to actually do it. But I'm not allowed to communicate directly with this person. I did that once and the head of HR blew their stack at my boss. So when there's some issue (and there always is because it gets delegated so junior that frequently it's a new person doing the numbers every quarter because the last one quit or got moved up a peg or whatever) repeat steps 2-5 in both directions as they telephone game their queries to me and then send down my response. 6) eventually the report gets put together. Do I get it now? No, head of HR sends it to their boss for approval, who sends it to their boss for approval. No one else in the entire org is having this poo poo reviewed at that kind of level. The people involved are very busy (either for real or executive level "busy") so inevitably it takes for loving ever to get this wrangled. 6a) if there are any questions or concerns repeat the idiotic telephone game I described in step 5. 7) eventually I'm staring down needing to submit this report incomplete or get an extension for it to be late because HR's boss's boss has had it for a week or whatever and hasn't given it their blessing yet. 8) I go to my boss (who is at the same org chart level as the head of HR). If there's any other part of the org that's tardy he just goes and talks to the head of the Widget Department because they're peers and says "yo, get my guy the poo poo he needs" and it happens. But no, since this crap is being sent two levels up by HR he needs to get HIS boss on the horn and sometimes his boss's boss so we can finally find someone senior enough to tell HR's boss's boss to just loving rubber stamp that poo poo like they did last quarter. 9) inevitably it finally comes back to me and it's a loving mess and I spend the next three business days frantically doing back-channel totally unauthorized and semi-secret talks with whatever bottom rung had to throw this bullshit together to get it un-hosed. While I'm at it I explain what they need to do next time which is almost always futile, because again there's such high turn over there that I think I've only had the same person for two quarters in a row once in like three years. And, let me again emphasize as hard as I can: there is no loving reason for HR to be in this report. It has to do with compliance on poo poo that HR never comes close to touching, but at some point in the past they felt left out. The poo poo they're reporting is nigh nonsensical for the purpose of the report and would really be more at home in a quarterly management briefing which, let me again emphasize, this report is not. Goddamn. Cyrano4747 fucked around with this message at 17:48 on May 18, 2022 |
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May 18, 2022 17:46
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Yorkshire Pudding posted:But because we live in hell world where the stupidest and most evil outcome is usually what happens, I’m expecting the company to say “we’re paying both you and anime rapist to fly out to our office for a small group team building exercise so you two can work this out alone!” Colleges love to do this poo poo. They call it "restorative justice" or something. Of course the goal is to get the victim to just drop out But I agree with everyone HR will probably want to stomp on this guy and have a perfect case for it.
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May 18, 2022 18:12
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holy crap if i had to run around making reports happen like that I would die. I only write a report weekly just for my boss so if someone asks him what I'm up to he has notes and doesnt say anything dumb like "I DONT KNOW" he doesnt usually know though... thats why i write the dang report.
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May 18, 2022 18:17
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Cyrano4747 posted:There's a gently caress off big quarterly report I build from information submitted by all the different parts of my organization. The sort of thing where I've got an email list for all the department heads (or the person they delegated this to - it's kinda poo poo work) and everyone just builds out their info with whatever internal methods they use, and then send it along to me. Everyone does it a little different but for the most part it looks like this: Could you not attach whatever HR sends as well as the report and just say "this additional info is unimportant"?
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May 18, 2022 18:37
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sneakyfrog posted:holy crap if i had to run around making reports happen like that I would die. Oof, yeah that sounds like torture. I just don't have the capacity to deal with that Dilbert-level nonsense. I'd just send one email asking for what I need, CC my boss, and then if they don't respond by the time the report is due publish it without HR. Anyone who complains gets forwarded a copy of the original request and a ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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May 18, 2022 18:51
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Cyrano4747 posted:There's a gently caress off big quarterly report I build from information submitted by all the different parts of my organization. The sort of thing where I've got an email list for all the department heads (or the person they delegated this to - it's kinda poo poo work) and everyone just builds out their info with whatever internal methods they use, and then send it along to me. Everyone does it a little different but for the most part it looks like this: Ahahaha drat. Our HR dept is the only one hyper protective of basic non-confidential files so whenever we need them updated we have to email them to track down the original which they often have lost. Get the vibe they do that out of fear of not having enough to do.
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May 18, 2022 19:28
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Lol, my company is sending out emails to certain locations about forcing people to come back into the office "two or three days a week" because "studies show in-office camaraderie positively impacts mental health!" ... At the same time that they're telling other locations that their offices are closing for good and they're all now full-time remote workers.
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May 18, 2022 19:42
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WonkyBob posted:Could you not attach whatever HR sends as well as the report and just say "this additional info is unimportant"? Nope. Deciding what to put in or not is way above my pay grade, and for better or worse HR's got their little dog and pony show included. My boss and I are working to try and overhaul the whole thing in the coming FY but it's one of those deals where we need to put our ducks in a row just so in order to demonstrate the need and then get buy in from the people who need to approve it etc. Part of the larger problem is that way back in the mists of time some eager beavers expanded the report out incrementally. What started as something to make sure we stayed compliant with some industry things slowly broadened out to this thing where everyone wants to show what they're doing and get a pat on the back from the way higher ups for not sucking. Part of any overhaul is going to be trimming that hedge back significantly, but there's probably going to be a fight. It might involve setting up another general management review or something for department heads to toot their horn in, but at that point my attitude is not my pig, not my farm. Unless somehow it lands on my desk alongside the current report in which case 
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May 18, 2022 19:44
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Cyrano4747 posted:Nope. Deciding what to put in or not is way above my pay grade, and for better or worse HR's got their little dog and pony show included. You're a better person than I. I'd email the HR heads direct report (CCing them in) and say "including HR in this report is three additional days of work. As it is non-essential I will require it to be correctly formatted when sent to me or, going forward, it will not be included as it is costing the company X amount of money".
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May 18, 2022 20:02
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 put a dollar amount on it and wow its magical how it works at corporate megacorp finance department
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May 18, 2022 20:22
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WonkyBob posted:You're a better person than I. I'd email the HR heads direct report (CCing them in) and say "including HR in this report is three additional days of work. As it is non-essential I will require it to be correctly formatted when sent to me or, going forward, it will not be included as it is costing the company X amount of money". His place of work sounds like the kind of place where the head of HR would take a look at that, blow his loving stack, then twist it to be an attack on his Boss's Boss's competence, and sic some C-level pettiness on him. The only way to get that to stop would be to fail miserably and abjectly to get the report done on time, then shove every bit of HR's bullshit at everyone in an attempt to shove HR under the bus, which depending on a ton of corporate culture and propensity towards ratfucking each other, could blow back way harder on Cyrano than on the HR dipshit. Sadly, bitching about it here and enjoying a beer is probably about the most productive thing he can do in the immediate term.
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May 18, 2022 20:39
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Just pretend that HR does not exist. When confronted, act all incredulous and say you have never even heard of "Human Resources? You mean 'people'?"
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May 18, 2022 20:40
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Methylethylaldehyde posted:Sadly, bitching about it here and enjoying a beer is probably about the most productive thing he can do in the immediate term. Well, that and the ongoing job search. It's gonna be loving hilarious when I do jump because lol they put way too much responsibility on me. My boss has said more than once that he's hosed on that quarterly report in particular if I ever leave. (edit: he's a good boss, and is constantly pointing me towards positions both internal and external. I have a strong feeling he's looking for the door too)
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May 18, 2022 21:03
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