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Obi-wan being a pushover isn't my problem with the fight. That makes sense. I have a problem with how the fight was shot and directed. On the plus side, baby Leia was way more palatable this episode, she works way better as a supporting cast member, and it's cute watching her Leia-isms coming together.
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Jun 1, 2022 11:52
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McCloud posted:he's dumb enough to think letting him escape is a good idea. "There was a list of people who made it through the route, including a former Jedi; if we let Kenobi go, he might lead us to them."
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Jun 1, 2022 12:08
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Vinylshadow posted:"There was a list of people who made it through the route, including a former Jedi; if we let Kenobi go, he might lead us to them."
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Jun 1, 2022 12:22
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I think setting the fight in a filler level from a mid-2000s third person shooter is what killed it for me more than the choreography or the non-resolution.
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Jun 1, 2022 12:23
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This whole episode was directed badly. I think that's the problem. The final fight...thing is just icing on the cake but showcased everything wrong with it. You can't even get a really good read on all of it since the visual.language was so...off.
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Jun 1, 2022 12:27
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dont the stormtroopers say something stupid at the end like "theres no way to get to him"? it doesnt look like 3d chess from vader but then again the writing is pretty bad so maybe vader did plan the whole thing to work out that way
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Jun 1, 2022 12:42
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tbf stormtroopers are useless
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Jun 1, 2022 12:43
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In episode 1, Reva and the Grand Inquisitor were grousing about how they only have "scraps" of Jedi to track down and kill. Palpatine doesn't seem to give a poo poo, believing that he won and that whatever remains are no threat to him. But obviously Vader doesn't feel that way. I seem to recall Rebels establishing a more concrete link between Vader and the Inquisitors (they work for him directly?) but even if we just stick what we've seen in Kenobi, clearly Vader has a link to them. It makes sense to me that he would think that the only possible reason for Kenobi (and Yoda) to go into hiding is to rebuild the order and that by getting Kenobi, that would lead him and the Inquisitors to something meatier than one-offs so the Jedi can be stomped out for good. And once that's accomplished, as part of the two-fer, Vader can kill Kenobi for reals.
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Jun 1, 2022 12:51
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CODChimera posted:dont the stormtroopers say something stupid at the end like "theres no way to get to him"? it doesnt look like 3d chess from vader but then again the writing is pretty bad so maybe vader did plan the whole thing to work out that way Yeah that made me LOL one of them screams “There’s no way around!” just embarrassing Red Rox fucked around with this message at 13:24 on Jun 1, 2022 |
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Jun 1, 2022 12:58
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Darko posted:This whole episode was directed badly. I think that's the problem. The final fight...thing is just icing on the cake but showcased everything wrong with it. You can't even get a really good read on all of it since the visual.language was so...off. I did enjoy the Raimi tight twisty zoom shot on Obi-Wan though.
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Jun 1, 2022 13:03
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I do feel like if Vader could just pick Ben up then opts not to but instead decides to stare War-of-American-Aggressionly at fire 🔥 that destroyed him, maybe just maybe he is wanting a moment to feel sentimental and cool. Hell yeah. And maybe that stormtrooper saying "we can't go around" is just helping Vader save face because he recognizes when his boss is having a ptsd episode.
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Jun 1, 2022 13:30
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Tbh the parts where this episode shined the brightest were the quiet bits of dialogue (Obi-Wan and Leia talking about the Force, her parentage, the stuff with the underground) and it's a shame that folks aren't talking about that stuff more  Any expectations I had for the Obi/Vader fight were met when he dragged the man through a field of burning glass 
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Jun 1, 2022 14:04
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Yeah, the truck ride with moleman was pretty drat good - especially the first bit once they pick up those troopers. And pretty brutal kill on that one guy. Leia was better in this too for the most part. But yeah ... the end... That Vader showdown was terrible. Even the walk down the way to lure Obi-Wan out - it just dragged - LITERALLY. Then the fight is Vader toying around. Getting blocked by smoke. In a mask. With a breathing filter. I was hoping they'd show him just walk through it show how stupid it was. But christ - that was boring. And gently caress me, is the Grand Inquisitor dead? Is this why that guy never read because he ISN'T the same character? Because he ONLY shows up in 2 episodes? I guess we'll find out with the 3 remaining episodes. At least it's better than Boba Fett but that is not saying much compared to Mando and all the rest of the shows. Even Resistance didn't get this way for a while (until it did).
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Jun 1, 2022 14:40
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yo this show is boring. This is less like having to do a homework assignment and more like having to work a phone support job in which I answer the same questions and issues over and over again. The showrunners need to unplug and replug the power cable on their show.
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Jun 1, 2022 14:48
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Spermando posted:Quick and dirty. I can't be the only one who thought of this. lol. Thank you. First thing I thought of. So that was weird. Mostly I loved the episode, but that fight, especially how it ended, was pretty bad. And I know Obi-Wan is broken, I'm fine with that part of the fight. But him spending most of it just briskly walking away was boring. And then Vader, who has been spending 10 years searching for Obi-Wan, seeing him on the other side of a fire he could easily walk around, possibly even through, and apparently thinking, "Oh well, guess I'll go home," was really weird. And to people saying that, because of the tunnel showing all the Jedi who have passed through the area, Vader wants to use Kenobi to track down the other Jedi, so he let him go, didn't Reva find that tunnel while Vader was fighting Kenobi? How would he even know about the Jedi Underground Railroad happening on this planet yet? That doesn't exactly track for me.
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Jun 1, 2022 15:01
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thrawn527 posted:And to people saying that, because of the tunnel showing all the Jedi who have passed through the area, Vader wants to use Kenobi to track down the other Jedi, so he let him go, didn't Reva find that tunnel while Vader was fighting Kenobi? How would he even know about the Jedi Underground Railroad happening on this planet yet? That doesn't exactly track for me. It wasn't shown in the episode at all, but since we already saw Reva do a Sith mind reading thing, could Vader have read Ben's mind, or is there a "no mind readsies" rule for card-carrying Jedi? For me the fight went off the rails, so to speak, when Vader extinguished the flames himself, he clearly wanted to torture Obi-Wan, but he just... Stopped. The implication was that it was a thousand years in a torture dungeon from there on out, but then Vader just walking away seems contrary to that, too. 
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Jun 1, 2022 15:27
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E: posted a reply without updating the page, disregard. Fight in the mining pit seemed like a really underwhelming setpiece esp after mustafar, TBH. Hopefully they are saving the spectacle for the finale.
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Jun 1, 2022 15:28
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I just started the episode.... Is there more information about/images of that trade route ship Obi-wan and Leia ride in on? That thing was nice af
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Jun 1, 2022 15:37
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Cheesus posted:Palpatine doesn't seem to give a poo poo, believing that he won and that whatever remains are no threat to him. But obviously Vader doesn't feel that way. I seem to recall Rebels establishing a more concrete link between Vader and the Inquisitors (they work for him directly?) but even if we just stick what we've seen in Kenobi, clearly Vader has a link to them. Yeah Palpatine formed the Inquisitors but then delegated to Vader (which is what we see in Rebels, Fallen Order, various comics, etc).
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Jun 1, 2022 15:59
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Doctor Spaceman posted:Yeah Palpatine formed the Inquisitors but then delegated to Vader (which is what we see in Rebels, Fallen Order, various comics, etc). Kinda feels like there's a tiny green elephant in the room, then, when they talk about Kenobi being the only Jedi still worth chasing.
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Jun 1, 2022 16:03
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Letting Kenobi go seemed like "Well, if he has help, let's see where they take him, so I can (get them all at once / kill all his friends in front of him / generate more drama / whatever)" type of move. The guy he just got done slapping around a rock quarry was not at all a threat anymore, and there will be plenty of time to torture him later. Plus the fire, screams of suffering, smell of human flesh burning in the sand... might be a bit of a sentimental moment Vader wanted to take in. That's my read on it, anyway. Everything with Freck was great. Seemed like a nice guy. There were warning signs he was Not a Friend, and then he dropped them off with some storm troopers with a smile on his face.
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Jun 1, 2022 16:05
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There's something serious wrong with the shot composition or direction in this episode. It constantly feels like characters are entering from off-stage in a play rather than having a real sense of space or geography even in the same scene.
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Jun 1, 2022 16:10
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It's sort of clever in a Sith way how Palpatine sets up little functionaries, operatives, and detachments of dudes with very nebulous rank and position within their organization as individuals and within the overall order as institutions and just makes them sort it out. There's a throughline in the shows-- it happened a lot in Mando as well-- where they are really bad about exactly how many troopers constitute a "we're boned/time to surrender" threat vs a "this is where the fun begins" challenge. They know what they want to happen for pacing reasons, but just seem colossally bad at communicating it through actual numbers and scene blocking/tactical situation. I'm not asking for slavish tactical realism, just something less arbitrary. A probot and four stormtroopers who have Obi-Wan at gunpoint, one on overwatch from an elevated position, one who uses Leia as a human shield? Obi-Wan takes all. Exactly three more stormtroopers and an imperial officer show up in a light vehicle? Whelp we gave it our best, time to surrender to the Evil Empire. You could have had that scene play out the same way, just have like... a dozen troopers show up on a hover halftrack with Tala on a pintle mount laser machine gun she turns on them. Thundercracker posted:There's something serious wrong with the shot composition or direction in this episode. It constantly feels like characters are entering from off-stage in a play rather than having a real sense of space or geography even in the same scene. I don't know if they meant for Obi Wan's initial attempt to flee from Vader's bared saber to play as a comedy beat, but boy does it, especially sticking to the wide shot like they do.
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Jun 1, 2022 16:12
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Man, I know our guy is in a bad place mentally right now but even wet behind the ears punks like Luke and Cal Kestis put up more of a fight than Obi-Wan managed here, goddamn. Anakin's probably split between feeling like even more of a chump for getting owned by this guy in the first place, and laughing his rear end off at what a worthless, broken shell of a man Obi-Wan has become. It was not so much Ali v Frazier II, more like Mike Tyson loving up that long streak of paralysed piss on the plane last month. Part of me wondered if they might soften Anakin up a bit, dial back some of the awful poo poo you might expect of him but nope, just straight up gonna merk a whole street of randos just because then just toy around like a particularly sadistic cat with a crippled mouse. Kenobi! Sort your poo poo out. Anyway, rather liked the hitch-hiking bit, the kid's quick thinking, the truck driver's seemingly amiable nature and the subsequent awkwardness. As for the direction, I like the idea of trying again for something like George's old idea of a scene that's just darkness interrupted by movement of the sabres but while thematically very appropriate it didn't really work for me here. The framing felt terribly average. All these sci-fi shows that aren't Raised By Wolves badly need better DoPs.
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Jun 1, 2022 16:13
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lmao @ Zach Braff as the driver Show so far is not terrible but not so hot. Some good elements (Vader is much better-written than in Rogue One, McGregor is great), but some really lame stupid character choices and Leia’s dialogue is still just a couple degrees too close to Marvel character shtick but at least it’s not a trainwreck.
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Jun 1, 2022 16:17
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i will say aliems sounding like they are voiced by basic rear end celebs is not hot that's star trek tier
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Jun 1, 2022 16:19
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Vader either wants to play cat and mouse with Obi-Wan or ran out of mana and couldn't force-hold him any more. I think the first one doesn't really match who he is and what's he's done up to this point so I'm going with the second one. Also never thought I'd see a star-nosed mole in star wars.
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Jun 1, 2022 16:35
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Got this in the mail over the weekend, it’s a signed oversized card from 20+ years ago.
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Jun 1, 2022 16:43
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Unless the last three episodes really blow me away this is the first Disney+ series that I think is a real misstep. Plotting, scripting, cinematography, acting are all over the place. Even the music is a let down, I just finished the episode and can't remember if they played the Imperial March when Vader showed up. It hurts me to even say it, but a real disappointment in almost every way.
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Jun 1, 2022 16:47
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drat I wish I hadn’t watched Boba either
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Jun 1, 2022 16:53
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:Kinda feels like there's a tiny green elephant in the room, then, when they talk about Kenobi being the only Jedi still worth chasing. Reva seems to have knowledge, possibly unique among the Inquisitors, about who Vader was and through that, the connection to Kenobi as his former master. I can't wait to find out what exactly she knows.
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Jun 1, 2022 16:54
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i just spoke to lord vader. he asked me to lead the lead the hunt unless you feel i should follow your orders insteadSENDOUTTHEPROBESDO IT now
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Jun 1, 2022 17:02
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That DICK! posted:i just spoke to lord vader. he asked me to lead the lead the hunt unless you feel i should follow your orders insteadSENDOUTTHEPROBESDO IT now Really awful delivery. It’s such a shame we can’t just have a subpar performance in a Star Wars without the klansmen sharpening their pitchforks
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Jun 1, 2022 17:07
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ONE YEAR LATER posted:Unless the last three episodes really blow me away this is the first Disney+ series that I think is a real misstep. Plotting, scripting, cinematography, acting are all over the place. Even the music is a let down, I just finished the episode and can't remember if they played the Imperial March when Vader showed up. It's weird how they own all of John Williams' music but refuse to deploy it (even here where the show is crying out for familiar motifs) because it Needs To Be Special
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Jun 1, 2022 17:12
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Big Mean Jerk posted:I genuinely do not understand why this technology exists and keeps being used when voice actors not only exist but have already been voicing these exact characters very well for years. Okay we all know Vader is in the show so I'm going to keep this out of spoilers because I read up on it for clarification. James Earl Jones really is voicing Vader in this series and Mark Hamill was present as Luke Skywalker for The Mandalorian and Book of Boba Fett. Respeecher was used to digitally de-age their voices because they're no longer physically capable of sounding like their 1970s selves. They're not just throwing away the actors for AI recreation.
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Jun 1, 2022 17:18
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No the Luke voice is AI. There were a ton of articles about it
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Jun 1, 2022 17:23
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https://twitter.com/CollectCantina/status/1521681077231927296 He was physically on set and doing all the lines.
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Jun 1, 2022 17:26
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lol i can't be the only one who for a brief second thought that when obi-wan was getting roasted by fire he'd come out looking like alec guiness honestly pretty impressive restraint on the writers part to not give vader a frankenstein-like aversion to fire. although i guess they kinda did cause otherwise he'd probably have just stepped over the very small fire and murdered obi wan
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Jun 1, 2022 17:41
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Escobarbarian posted:Really awful delivery. It’s such a shame we can’t just have a subpar performance in a Star Wars without the klansmen sharpening their pitchforks Given that the direction of that fight scene made stuff that should have felt tense/desperate just feel flat and even worse played as unintentional comedy beats, I suspect it might be a direction problem as much as an acting one. Then again Chow did some real work on The Mandalorian so who knows? Could just be covid fuckery, suit interference, hosed shooting schedules. It takes a village to gently caress up a star war. Those do feel like some really flat reads though.
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Jun 1, 2022 17:42
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chitoryu12 posted:James Earl Jones really is voicing Vader in this series and Mark Hamill was present as Luke Skywalker for The Mandalorian and Book of Boba Fett. Respeecher was used to digitally de-age their voices because they're no longer physically capable of sounding like their 1970s selves. They're not just throwing away the actors for AI recreation. https://www.respeecher.com/case-studies/respeecher-synthesized-younger-luke-skywalkers-voice-disneys-mandalorian quote:"Something people didn't realize is that his voice isn't real. His voice, the young Luke Skywalker’s voice, is completely synthesized using an application called Respeecher," says Jon Favreau. I'm not sure how much more from the horses mouth you can get
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