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reverse kimura yes / no?
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May 24, 2022 12:43
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| # ? Jun 3, 2024 10:17 |
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What is a reverse Kimura?
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May 24, 2022 13:48
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I don't know if this is what they mean, but you can put the opponent's arm in a kimura like shoulder lock by getting a grip on their elbow and upper arm instead of their wrist. Like the kimura, you're creating a situation where you forearms are levering their arm and your hands are locked together, but it can be easier to get this grip in certain situations. If that's what they mean, my coaches say yes 
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May 24, 2022 13:53
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I think it's just kimura-like control, but with the attacker's grips switched. Like if I'm doing a Kimura from closed guard on my opponent's right arm, the reverse Kimura would be my right hand on his/her right wrist (with a thumb-up grip) and my left arm going behind their elbow and gripping my own right wrist (thumb down). Not sure how effective the submission is from there, but if you get that grip you're pretty much 90% of the way to an arm drag back take so why stop there?
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May 24, 2022 14:33
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Is that the same position as a Russian tie when you close the grips around your own wrist? If so, I personally enjoy using that and find it effective.
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May 24, 2022 14:37
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ihop posted:I think it's just kimura-like control, but with the attacker's grips switched. Like if I'm doing a Kimura from closed guard on my opponent's right arm, the reverse Kimura would be my right hand on his/her right wrist (with a thumb-up grip) and my left arm going behind their elbow and gripping my own right wrist (thumb down). Not sure how effective the submission is from there, but if you get that grip you're pretty much 90% of the way to an arm drag back take so why stop there? efb by Xguard but I typed this out so will post anyway My instructor teaches this and calls it the Dirty Russian because he often will set it up off a Russian tie. It's much harder to get a tap from it than a regular kimura but it does give pretty decent control. If you get it from standing, you can use it to set up a sacrifice throw. If you get it from a guard situation (I get it from half guard or half butterfly a lot), you can use it to sweep. And, to your last point, it combines really well with some back take stuff. I like to try to control uke's right wrist with my right hand (either with a gi grip or a grip on the wrist) and then shove their right wrist to their left hip to go for the back or sumi gaeshi sweep. But a lot of guys I roll with are wise to that now and will fight it, and when they do the Dirty Russian is a great place to transition to because you already have the wrist control, and they way they are fighting not having the wrist put to their hip opens their right elbow for me to bring my left arm behind and lock up the double-wristlock.
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May 24, 2022 14:37
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Oh also you can set up a nasty bicep cutter from that grip too, kinda similar to the one where if you have a lasso and they try to pass without addressing the lasso grip.
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May 24, 2022 14:42
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butros posted:efb by Xguard but I typed this out so will post anyway Well I beat you but this a good post because I like it for all the things you described. I haven't tried the back part though, that's cool. I also never try to tap anyone with it, I just don't think that's going to happen. Sometimes you can get a kimura by switching grips but I'm not practiced enough to give a good how-to on that one.
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May 24, 2022 14:52
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The only taps I get from it are when you catch someone and they've never experienced it before, and they feel the pressure on the shoulder and can't determine quickly enough to just accept the sweep and roll over their shoulder so they tap early. But when guys are wise to it, it's actually really hard to finish because they can drop their shoulder down and prevent you from getting their wrist behind their back for the lock, but that's fine because you can still get the sweep from there though, or if not it's very easy to come up for the back.
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May 24, 2022 15:03
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Im finding the Kimura is a extremely good hold to use on smaller upper belts. Especially two stripe brown belts that are training for worlds 
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May 24, 2022 17:12
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Tacos Al Pastor posted:Im finding the Kimura is a extremely good hold to use on smaller upper belts. Especially two stripe brown belts that are training for worlds kimura from everywhere all the time
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May 24, 2022 18:58
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CommonShore posted:kimura from everywhere all the time especially from the back. Holy poo poo its powerful.
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May 24, 2022 19:03
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Don't forget a kimura *to* the back! The reverse kimura rules too. As mentioned, you're not likely to get a submission with it by itself, but it's a really powerful tool for setting up arm drags, front headlocks, etc. I like to catch it off the whizzer if the other person tries to limp-arm their underhook out.
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May 24, 2022 20:34
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Looks like I’m not competing on the weekend. Ate a bad throw and picked up an AC injury in my shoulder. Hope it heals quick. Likely just a sprain at this stage (no visible clavicle separation)
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May 24, 2022 21:05
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I like to use the reverse kimura when people are doing the weave pass. Shallow pulling grip inside the elbow, pushing grip on the wrist, hands not connected, whip your top leg out and arm drag to the back. There are a lot of situations where it’s better to do it with your hands unlocked - more tension. I think you would want to lock your hands before you do the sacrifice throw, though. Too much going on to maintain the grip as you fall
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May 25, 2022 09:44
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02-6611-0142-1 posted:I like to use the reverse kimura when people are doing the weave pass. Shallow pulling grip inside the elbow, pushing grip on the wrist, hands not connected, whip your top leg out and arm drag to the back. You got a vid for this? I am very interested in seeing this in action.
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May 25, 2022 19:35
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It's somewhere on one of Drew Weatherhead's (paid) instructionals. The idea is that you're using a low knee shield to push them away so you use the grip to pull them in. I'm sure you can work out the drag from here: The difference when they're weave passing you is that you use both your hands to hold them in place for a second while you whip your top leg out towards you.
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May 25, 2022 22:10
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Guys I need help with the kipping escape from mount. I can't do the technique properly. I don't understand how the leg motion leads to the escape; I don't know what the mechanism is. I've seen numerous videos and have had it quickly shown to me. I'm a fairly athletic purple belt. I've practiced it several times now and have made only the tiniest progress. I'd love any tips you could offer.
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May 26, 2022 01:23
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Count Roland posted:Guys I need help with the kipping escape from mount. I can't do the technique properly. I don't understand how the leg motion leads to the escape; I don't know what the mechanism is. It looks like you have to be able to bridge and frame against ukes hips so when you lower your hips down and start kipping it allows you to escape either to single leg X or back to guard. edit: which is to say, the kipping probably doesn't matter so much as making sure to get opponents weight on to your frame rather than your body. I think in practice, uke is gonna shift to knee on belly or side control if you get that dominant of a frame. Defenestrategy fucked around with this message at 01:47 on May 26, 2022 |
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May 26, 2022 01:43
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Count Roland posted:Guys I need help with the kipping escape from mount. I can't do the technique properly. I don't understand how the leg motion leads to the escape; I don't know what the mechanism is. When you're learning, try to start with a bridge that gets their hands on the mat to one side of your head, if the hands go left, your butt goes right. Frame the hips, pin the knees to his butt and start kipping. The very fast extension of your legs pushes your butt back a bit (you can test it on the floor by yourself) and he's framed so you get a bit of room, you just need enough to get the knee in. I don't do the straight vertical one but the sideways one has been working well for me as an unathletic purple belt.
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May 26, 2022 01:54
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Defenestrategy posted:It looks like you have to be able to bridge and frame against ukes hips so when you lower your hips down and start kipping it allows you to escape either to single leg X or back to guard. edit: which is to say, the kipping probably doesn't matter so much as making sure to get opponents weight on to your frame rather than your body. Yeah, each time I've "successfully" done the kipping motion I could have just as easily hip escaped; I'd already created the frames, shifted uke's weight and made some space. I'm trying to figure out what kipping adds to the escape. Postess with the Mostest posted:When you're learning, try to start with a bridge that gets their hands on the mat to one side of your head, if the hands go left, your butt goes right. Frame the hips, pin the knees to his butt and start kipping. The very fast extension of your legs pushes your butt back a bit (you can test it on the floor by yourself) and he's framed so you get a bit of room, you just need enough to get the knee in. I don't do the straight vertical one but the sideways one has been working well for me as an unathletic purple belt. Right, so I know about framing off to one side and getting uke's hands on the mat. Where exactly are my knees in relation to uke's butt? They start off against it, to they move back and forth, each time pushing into uke's butt? I did try the other day to generate motion solo and had a tiny bit of success. I'll try that some more.
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May 26, 2022 02:03
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Count Roland posted:Yeah, each time I've "successfully" done the kipping motion I could have just as easily hip escaped; I'd already created the frames, shifted uke's weight and made some space. I'm trying to figure out what kipping adds to the escape. The kip is just an extension of your lower leg so the knees stay in the same spot, pressed tight into the butt especially the lower one so that the instant there is enough room, it slides into single x position. e; Where I find kipping makes a difference is against locked feet. If their feet aren't locked, the kipping escape just becomes standard mount escape to single x. It's when the opponent has really got their feet locked tight that kipping seems magical because it's a frame/ratchet mechanic rather than big movement. Postess with the Mostest fucked around with this message at 02:21 on May 26, 2022 |
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May 26, 2022 02:10
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If it makes you feel any better, one of my coaches has taught this exact move several times and I've been to a Gordon Ryan seminar where he spent a lot of time on it, and I can still only barely make it work while drilling. It's a lot of unintuitive movements done with very particular timing, but the short version is that the combination of your arm frames and the kipping motion should ratchet their hips further and further away from yours until you have enough room to fit in to SLX or whatever. Here's a good example of it being done live against a high-level mount (1:05 if the timestamp doesn't work): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpJQFC_DE3w&t=65s
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May 26, 2022 02:41
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I have been working using it as my go to mount escape for about a year and this is what I’ve learned: - they have to have their posture broken down (eg. hunting for an arm triangle, with a crossface, etc) it won’t work if they are postured up right on your hips like they are throwing punches, if the they are use a bridge combined with a gentle knee push on their rear end to get their hands on the mat above your head. - it’s much easier if you do the sideways kip where you pick a side left or right and kip on a hip rather than flat backed - the best frame for me is hands on hips, not the L-shaped frame you make with your forearm + hand - it’s tiring to repeatedly attempt this and fail, you will get cooked fast - make sure your knees are glued together and start around your opponents tailbone. - the initial bridge should be done with your feet as close to your rear end as possible, right after the bridge you should go to a banana/rounded/concave back like you are trying to elevate someone from your butterfly guard
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May 26, 2022 02:51
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Also your training partners will quickly wise up and start pummeling their shin across your hips into knee on belly as you try this, but hey you still escaped mount. And you can follow that up with a 2nd bridge and inside spin into backside 50//50, which is another amazing escape I have been working on, it’s the first thing in Gordon’s new pin escapes tape
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May 26, 2022 02:55
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Count Roland posted:Guys I need help with the kipping escape from mount. I can't do the technique properly. I don't understand how the leg motion leads to the escape; I don't know what the mechanism is. In your defense, Danaher has said it is very hard to learn and get right. It takes a lot of practice.
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May 26, 2022 14:14
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Yah I independently stumbled into a version of the kipping escape and couldn't teach it to people because I felt like I barely understood what I was doing myself. I actually thought it was sort of a BS scrub move until I saw dds guys doing it lol Def something where details and experience matters a lot.
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May 26, 2022 16:21
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02-6611-0142-1 posted:It's somewhere on one of Drew Weatherhead's (paid) instructionals. The idea is that you're using a low knee shield to push them away so you use the grip to pull them in. I'm sure you can work out the drag from here: Ahh ok, I see it now. Its kind of like a Russian Tie. We have a wrestler in our gym that really likes this grip. It is annoying! BTW: That dude has a really good video series on the crucifix for anyone that is interested. Count Roland posted:Guys I need help with the kipping escape from mount. I can't do the technique properly. I don't understand how the leg motion leads to the escape; I don't know what the mechanism is. I know from like a mount position if you can get the bottom leg after the kip to come through, its more important than the top leg, the top leg can be used to secure a single leg x which is a good position to go to after using the escape. Tacos Al Pastor fucked around with this message at 17:14 on May 26, 2022 |
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May 26, 2022 17:11
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Thanks for all the tips re: kipping escape. I pulled it off today! Not sure exactly what I did differently but that is still a success.
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May 27, 2022 22:02
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I think you have to not think of doing it just for it's own sake, but keep in mind that you're doing it to try to get your knee in.
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May 28, 2022 13:36
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Over the weekend I saw a counter to the scorpion death lock (aka Americana from side control) while rolling with my professor. The key like most escapes is to act early, not let them control your leg (or its all over) and perform a hitch hiker type escape once you start to see it set up. I think I surprised my professor by locking up a kimura when I came back up and came soooo close to tapping him. Anyway, I think the point is Its cool to see these types of things just pop into your head by reaction and not really thinking too much about it. Thats always the real reward! If anyone doesnt know the move Im talking about, Keenan kind of shows it here with his uke performing the escape: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QH1buO44Qyo
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May 30, 2022 05:15
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I was really hyped that Keenan Cornelius had an entry to the Scorpion Deathlock. Then I was really annoyed that it wasn't a scorpion deathlock.
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May 30, 2022 06:05
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We had a straight killer came into my gym last night. He seemed to be buddies with the owner, but a fresh face to most of the regulars. He was built like a tank and used impeccable technique. His grips were rock solid; he got his fingers into the crevices of my clavicle, between lat and my armpit, etc. All the big dudes who regularly wipe the floor with me were getting tossed around like a Source engine rag doll. Far out.
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Jun 2, 2022 18:06
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There certainly are levels to this sport. I can't even conceptualise what going 100% at ADCC would even be like. I'm resigned to being a decrepit hobbyist for life but I'm resolved to keep training until I die so every day at the gym is hitting my goals.
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Jun 2, 2022 22:44
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Words were said; mistakes were made:
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Jun 6, 2022 14:30
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Jun 6, 2022 14:33
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rad
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Jun 6, 2022 15:12
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Good job dude. I also like the tshirt
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Jun 6, 2022 15:30
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Congrats on the new belt!
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Jun 6, 2022 15:43
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| # ? Jun 3, 2024 10:17 |
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Awesome!
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Jun 6, 2022 17:29
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