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Official https://www.viz.com/shonenjump/jujutsu-kaisen-chapter-187/chapter/24742?action=read I love that he sees the most logical option and thinks only a loser would do that.
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Jun 12, 2022 20:01
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the official should've left in KEEP GOING!
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Jun 12, 2022 20:22
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Holy poo poo I love Kashimo's attitude. Didn't realize he was a contemporary of the cannon dude!
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Jun 12, 2022 21:07
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Patware posted:the official should've left in KEEP GOING! Electric Phantasm posted:I love that he sees the most logical option and thinks only a loser would do that.
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Jun 12, 2022 21:16
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I Am Fowl posted:Holy poo poo I love Kashimo's attitude. Didn't realize he was a contemporary of the cannon dude! It was mentioned they were both from 400 years ago.
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Jun 12, 2022 23:03
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I think everyone immediately gained even more respect for Kashimo with the "that's how losers think" moment. Hell yes. I had wondered if Kashimo was just looking for Sukuna to fight the strongest considering the time gap between them. This makes me feel more certain that Hakari beats Kashimo here and gains his respect. Similar to Okkotsu fighting Ishigori, though I don't think the loser of this fight is being left alive. I guess using the wicker basket simple domain means Kashimo doesn't have domain expansion, maybe this big power up at the end of the chapter is their maximum technique though. I didn't really understand Hakari's first two moves during his domain though, perhaps I just read the chapter too quickly due to excitement. They weren't his orbs or doors, were they the chance modifiers or just previously unmentioned moves? One was a healing move I think? The first one though I didn't really follow what was meant by repeating the sequence. I really like kashimo but I also don't have much interest in them going beyond this fight. He'd stomp Yuji in a fight unless Sukuna comes out in which case Kashimo absolutely has nothing for Sukuna. There also is just not an interesting story there either I think considering he just wants to fight the strongest. I think being faster than Instant Spirit Body of Distorted Killing places Hakari in the absolute top tier of speed in JJK outside of instant teleports
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Jun 13, 2022 00:50
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EmmyOk posted:I think everyone immediately gained even more respect for Kashimo with the "that's how losers think" moment. Hell yes. I had wondered if Kashimo was just looking for Sukuna to fight the strongest considering the time gap between them. This makes me feel more certain that Hakari beats Kashimo here and gains his respect. Similar to Okkotsu fighting Ishigori, though I don't think the loser of this fight is being left alive. Him being able to use Wicker Basket does not mean he has no domain. Domains are once a day last resorts that are exhausting. Even if you have a Domain using Wicker Basket first, if you know it, will let the user test out the enemies Domain without putting them in danger, allowing the user to see if their own Domain is required or not. Pseudo Spins are part of Hakari’s pachinko moves let the shutters and balls. They are not used for combat like the other two, but instead seem to negate an instance of damage Hakari has taken. They apparently have a high chance of failure so Hakari does not like to use them outside of probability shift where the odds increase to 20%. Hakari is not faster than Mahito, his Domain’s activation time and transfer of rules is faster than Mahito’s 0.2 Domain expansion, because of the fact that it’s harmless.
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Jun 13, 2022 01:41
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Reread the chapter more slowly with the morning brew MonsterEnvy posted:I think Kashimo will win myself, as build up for the biggest villain of the arc so far. That's all true. We don't know what simple domain costs or how it works well enough yet imo. I had at first thought it was an easy domain but the manga makes clear it takes effort and not everyone can do it. I'm not sure if Nanami just had a skill ceiling or if he just didn't have someone who would teach it to him as both are important factors to simple domain. The more I think about it though I suppose if it's just a domain expansion you don't infuse your CT in you could do both. I'd like more explanation on simple domain though. You've made a good argument why this scene isn't proof of Kashimo not having DE . I think the most sensible counter to an enemy domain expansion is your own domain expansion if you have it. Being caught in a domain is still dangerous even with a simple domain. Even considering Hakari's domain expansion it makes more sense to disrupt it. MonsterEnvy posted:Pseudo Spins are part of Hakari’s pachinko moves let the shutters and balls. They are not used for combat like the other two, but instead seem to negate an instance of damage Hakari has taken. They apparently have a high chance of failure so Hakari does not like to use them outside of probability shift where the odds increase to 20%. They weren't mentioned before were they? I went back and looked at Hakari's main power information dump and it doesn't mention these visual effect. Rereading the chapter I think I know what Continuation does other than just healing Hakari. Continuation has an X2 beside it and Renewal an X3 marking them as his second and third visual effects for this spin but there's no X1. So I think Continuation let's Hakari continue a visual effect chain from a previous spin. The description makes it sound like he will only get +1 to his streak regardless of how high the previous streak was. Considering Hakari automatically gets a jackpot if he hits X4, giving him that boost to start on X2 is pretty good. MonsterEnvy posted:Hakari is not faster than Mahito, his Domain’s activation time and transfer of rules is faster than Mahito’s 0.2 Domain expansion, because of the fact that it’s harmless. I forgot Mahito did this lol. This is absolutely what it's talking about. Rereading it was super clear it wasn't talking about any other speed.
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Jun 13, 2022 11:14
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EmmyOk posted:They weren't mentioned before were they? I went back and looked at Hakari's main power information dump and it doesn't mention these visual effect. Rereading the chapter I think I know what Continuation does other than just healing Hakari. Continuation has an X2 beside it and Renewal an X3 marking them as his second and third visual effects for this spin but there's no X1. So I think Continuation let's Hakari continue a visual effect chain from a previous spin. The description makes it sound like he will only get +1 to his streak regardless of how high the previous streak was. Considering Hakari automatically gets a jackpot if he hits X4, giving him that boost to start on X2 is pretty good. This ability is referred to as consecutive effect in the official TL for both the infodump and the new chapter.  Not seeing the x1 is like how we didn't actually see the higher chance pachinko balls he can throw, it's all up to chance. Given the probability boost though he's landing the higher multipliers and if he were to chain 4 consecutive effects together (any combination of 1,2,3) he gets an automatic jackpot.
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Jun 13, 2022 14:18
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The mangaka loves math so much that the coolest abilities are bullshit probability abuse and infinity
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Jun 13, 2022 14:32
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Brought To You By posted:This ability is referred to as consecutive effect in the official TL for both the infodump and the new chapter. If you're saying that each consecutive effect gets a random X between 1X and 4X that's not right I don't think. I didn't realise his consecutive effects were a separate class of visual effects like his balls and doors are separate types of visual effects. It's clear looking back now that they are. However they're called consecutive visual effects and he says if he gets four of them then he gets an automatic jackpot. Not that if he gets the X4 effect he gets a jackpot. I think consecutive effects build a combo as he successfully uses them. If Hakari reaches an X4 combo before richii triggers or a consecutive effect fails he gets an automatic jackpot. Continuation's description of replaying a previous consecutive effect also makes it sound like it works as a combo builder. e: maybe it is I suppose but I'd need to see more X arrive out of order to make that judgment.
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Jun 13, 2022 15:59
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Goddamn this ability has so much going on e: Also assuming we get another DE after this which seems unlikely he still has the faster spin bonus instead of higher jackpot chance
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Jun 13, 2022 16:02
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EmmyOk posted:If you're saying that each consecutive effect gets a random X between 1X and 4X that's not right I don't think. I didn't realise his consecutive effects were a separate class of visual effects like his balls and doors are separate types of visual effects. It's clear looking back now that they are. However they're called consecutive visual effects and he says if he gets four of them then he gets an automatic jackpot. Not that if he gets the X4 effect he gets a jackpot. I think consecutive effects build a combo as he successfully uses them. If Hakari reaches an X4 combo before richii triggers or a consecutive effect fails he gets an automatic jackpot. Continuation's description of replaying a previous consecutive effect also makes it sound like it works as a combo builder.  This is where I think the TL is working against us. The TCB translation refers to the consecutive effects as "Pseudo-spins" which would appear to be the more accurate TL of the kanji [擬似連] used in the JP raws. Literally 'Pseudo continuous notice/notification'. From what I read Here and here it's just a visual effect that causes the numbers to act as if they have advanced to the next rotation without changing the actual outcome. I think makes more sense as to what hakari is doing than just calling it "consecutive effect" because at least a fake spin works with a fake-out that leaves him in his previous state. My is assumption that the x[Number] would refer to how many of the numbers on the slot reel would spin which is why it caps at x3. As for the reason the Consecutive effect goes from x2 to x3 I think the pseudo-spin might still be up to chance. But it's worth noting that even in his fight with Bernard his abilities went from green ball -> red shutter -> gold shutter which also follows the increase in value. However, in one of the articles I linked, it mentions (via google TL I'm not 100%.) That some machines do give jackpot after 3(maybe 4) of these spins. So for this one you are probably right and if he does it 4 times he's guaranteed a jackpot.
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Jun 13, 2022 22:00
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Yeah the translation of his ability seems pretty complex so we could be losing out context in the official translation there. I can see it all ways honestly lol. I think the only way to fully be able to understand Hakari's ability will be through seeing it a lot as time goes on. I think the translation aside Gege's also not giving us super indepth explanations of every facet all at once which leaves a lot up for inference until it's clarified later (hopefully). I'm glad the third type of "spin" he has is clearer to me now though!.
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Jun 14, 2022 00:39
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We in the west also tend to be pretty unfamiliar with Pachinko which it’s based on. The easiest way to understand it is that it’s pretty much a slot machine. Hakari can do one of three types of attack previews also called spins, and each time he does the slots which are numbered 1 to 7 spin. If two numbers match a scene will play out before showing if the third number matches or not. If they match he gets invincibility. If the Jackpot is an odd number the next time he does it his odds of getting a Jackpot off a spin increase to around 20%, if it’s even his spins get faster before resetting after a number of spins. Normally each Spin has a 1 in 239 chance of winning.
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Jun 14, 2022 01:33
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since I’m not a Japanese salaryman in a loveless marriage I had no idea how it worked
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Jun 14, 2022 01:38
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MonsterEnvy posted:We in the west also tend to be pretty unfamiliar with Pachinko which it’s based on. The easiest way to understand it is that it’s pretty much a slot machine. Hakari can do one of three types of attack previews also called spins, and each time he does the slots which are numbered 1 to 7 spin. If two numbers match a scene will play out before showing if the third number matches or not. If they match he gets invincibility. If the Jackpot is an odd number the next time he does it his odds of getting a Jackpot off a spin increase to around 20%, if it’s even his spins get faster before resetting after a number of spins. Normally each Spin has a 1 in 239 chance of winning. I'm mostly familiar with Pachinko from Kaiji, plinko, and Mario Sunshine, so this kind of helps. The multiplier stuff gets weird.
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Jun 14, 2022 01:39
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EmmyOk posted:Yeah the translation of his ability seems pretty complex so we could be losing out context in the official translation there. I can see it all ways honestly lol. I think the only way to fully be able to understand Hakari's ability will be through seeing it a lot as time goes on. I think the translation aside Gege's also not giving us super indepth explanations of every facet all at once which leaves a lot up for inference until it's clarified later (hopefully). I'm glad the third type of "spin" he has is clearer to me now though!. The reality is that the translation for JJK has always been plagued with localization problems and mistranslated text. There was a tumblr that documented such instances but it died off around the time it's namesake did as well Nanami-says Also from the thread I got the Pseudo-spin translation notes from came another mistranslation that happens when Kashimo is getting infodumped about hakari's domain. Apparently one line actually indicates that Hakari's domain has some resistance from pushback (Panel 1. 2nd block of text in the square text box: 押し合いに強く "strong against pushing") as well as what we were told about it being fast to activate it's sure-hit.  Seems important to note that Hakari's domain is apparently better at withstanding the 1v1 domain tug of war in addition to the speed in which it's sure-hit activates being fast. And this would make sense in-universe since explaining your power acts as a boost.
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Jun 14, 2022 03:10
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Imagine having a DE that fills your opponents's mind with so much garbage that they are reduced to just mumbling "Halloween" 
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Jun 14, 2022 08:55
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a CT that combines the properties of gum and rubber
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Jun 14, 2022 22:35
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Straight up King Crimson as a CT and nobody can agree on how it works. Even the guy using it.
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Jun 14, 2022 22:52
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Brought To You By posted:Straight up King Crimson as a CT and nobody can agree on how it works. Even the guy using it. Hunter x Hunter made that ability for a character and actually explained it in a way that makes sense
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Jun 14, 2022 23:53
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King Crimson works fine and is explained clearly in context. I don’t think anyone like myself who first experienced the hobos coloured team translation had any issues. The lovely fan translation is to blame for it.
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Jun 15, 2022 00:04
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Even without a Duwang tier translation there's a contradiction between whether or not King Crimson allows itself or Diavalo to touch people in the time skip. He kills Bruno, can't touch Polneraff and even the blood he throws freezes before contact. Kills Mista (?). Is intangible when he's attacked afterwards.
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Jun 15, 2022 00:19
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I’m pretty sure he punches Bruno from behind after erasure. Anyway the mechanics of king crimson are fine to understand. How well Araki sticks to rules he establishes is a very different thing. The confusion over king crimson came directly from the dudes not being able to read Japanese that well and having pages of notes trying to reexplain something they didn’t fully understand
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Jun 15, 2022 00:37
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I like that Okkotsu as a successor to Gojo has his overwhelming cursed energy and OP ability. Hakari as a successor has Gojo’s ability to be unbelievably annoying and disrespectful to higher ups and whomever he’s fighting
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Jun 15, 2022 00:39
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I bet Gojo wishes his DE played what I assume is an annoying Jpop song whenever his poo poo starts popping off.
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Jun 15, 2022 00:55
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EmmyOk posted:I’m pretty sure he punches Bruno from behind after erasure. Anyway the mechanics of king crimson are fine to understand. How well Araki sticks to rules he establishes is a very different thing. The confusion over king crimson came directly from the dudes not being able to read Japanese that well and having pages of notes trying to reexplain something they didn’t fully understand I mean, I'm not privy on the pre-color translation discussions of Part V. It's my 2nd least favorite one (God Part VI sucks) so I didn't engage with the community until before the anime landed. But a lot of the confusion I've seen regarding KC is literally because Araki doesn't stick to his rules. Even if you say bruno was killed afterwards. Trish was abducted right from underneath him and lost a hand in the process. The constant flip flop is what hems people up when I talk with them outside others forgetting the hair thing for Epitaph happened in the metallica fight. Same thing happened with Funny Valentine. Asuron posted:Hunter x Hunter made that ability for a character and actually explained it in a way that makes sense
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Jun 15, 2022 01:43
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EmmyOk posted:I like that Okkotsu as a successor to Gojo has his overwhelming cursed energy and OP ability. Hakari as a successor has Gojo’s ability to be unbelievably annoying and disrespectful to higher ups and whomever he’s fighting I still don’t understand how okkotsu has so much energy. I guess his ring is probably a cursed object that just acts as a battery and makes Rika2 power up. I also still don’t know why he didn’t want people to know he has reverse curse tech I’m all in on Hakari nation imho
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Jun 15, 2022 04:17
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Bread Set Jettison posted:I still don’t understand how okkotsu has so much energy. I guess his ring is probably a cursed object that just acts as a battery and makes Rika2 power up. 1. Mostly good genes, he's descended from a bigshot sorcerer, who Gojo is also descended from. And we all know how strong Gojo is. Also, the circumstances between Rika's creation (the both of them desired one another which greatly amplified her strength as a cursed spirit to keep them connected to one another) gave her a fuckton of cursed energy and she gave it all to Yuta while she was passing on, and that reserve or energy is Rika2. I don't think the ring powers Rika2 up, but rather lets him get access to her full powers (using her as a battery, getting the ability to copy other users, getting access to the cursed weapons she keeps stored within) for a limited period of time. Because it's an engagement ring or whatever. So it connects him to her. 2. Tactical advantage, it's better to keep your cards hidden. It's a strong technique but also very energy-consuming, probably better for enemies to think you're weakened and take you lightly than realize you have a self-healing ability that eats up your energy resources.
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Jun 15, 2022 04:44
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Brought To You By posted:I mean, I'm not privy on the pre-color translation discussions of Part V. It's my 2nd least favorite one (God Part VI sucks) so I didn't engage with the community until before the anime landed. But a lot of the confusion I've seen regarding KC is literally because Araki doesn't stick to his rules. Even if you say bruno was killed afterwards. Trish was abducted right from underneath him and lost a hand in the process. The constant flip flop is what hems people up when I talk with them outside others forgetting the hair thing for Epitaph happened in the metallica fight. I really like five and thinks it gets a rap, six is my least favourite of the Stand parts for sure though. SBR forever. I agree Araki has big issues around abilities being inconsistent or him clearly changing his mind on how it works. D4C is my go to example of that where he clearly changed his mind on how it works after setting up a major mystery involving it. That mystery then makes zero sense when we have it’s ability set explained. Araki explicitly mentioned Dio’s World initially having all Stand powers being something he changed too. In the manga you still see Dio using Hermit Purple for example before he changed his mind. There’s also various and sundry stand users who do something weird in their introduction that ends up not being something their stand can do or they ever do again. J. Geil having no rain fall on him for example D4C and King Crimson still have very clear explanations of how their ability works even if Araki writes them inconsistently. Of the examples you gave in part five I haven’t read it fully or watched it in a year or two so I can’t remember the specifics. However the main issue during the bad translation era was just about the Stands actual moveset and how time erasure worked. King Crimson was notorious for being “incomprehensible” but it’s not. It’s basic explanation or how he writes it isn’t different than a tonne of other stands in the series before and after. I don’t think his reputation as being hard to understand really persisted after the anime. Anyway I should leave it there this isn’t the JoJo Kaisen thread!
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Jun 15, 2022 11:12
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Bread Set Jettison posted:I still don’t understand how okkotsu has so much energy. I guess his ring is probably a cursed object that just acts as a battery and makes Rika2 power up. Same. I didn’t read or watch 0 yet, very keen to see it when it’s on VOD. I had thought this was the original Rika until recent posts in this thread lol. The ring is just how he fully channels Rika’s power though. I’m not sure if that volume of power is needed for him to use his CT to copy or if the CT requiring the ring is just a restriction of it. I’d assume the former. For his positive energy I think he just didn’t want the two really dangerous sorcerers watching him to know all his moves. Reversed cursed energy is pretty rare and it’s probably better they don’t know he can heal himself or power his techniques with it
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Jun 15, 2022 11:17
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EmmyOk posted:Same. I didn’t read or watch 0 yet, very keen to see it when it’s on VOD. I had thought this was the original Rika until recent posts in this thread lol. Zero is fun but reads like a first draft. If you weren’t already caught up I think it make the “actually it’s me Kenjaku” reveal better.
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Jun 15, 2022 18:08
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EmmyOk posted:Same. I didn’t read or watch 0 yet, very keen to see it when it’s on VOD. I had thought this was the original Rika until recent posts in this thread lol. You should.
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Jun 16, 2022 00:20
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Is it in the Shonen Jump app?
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Jun 16, 2022 00:49
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Yeah scroll down it’s before chapter 1
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Jun 16, 2022 00:54
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JahRoo posted:Yeah scroll down it’s before chapter 1 So it is! Thank you. I remember being confused, seeing those below Chapter 1, but I must've forgotten and never gone back, once I started reading.
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Jun 16, 2022 01:10
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I like how Hakkari's introduction has him desperately looking for someone to re-ignite his "fever", and after Yuji did just that he's spent all his time getting his opponents just as hyped up as he is
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Jun 16, 2022 17:43
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Early translation for the next chapter https://onepiecechapters.com/chapters/2315/jujutsu-kaisen-chapter-188
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Jun 17, 2022 08:54
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"time reduction" next, i assume
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Jun 17, 2022 13:18
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