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Sinatrapod posted:Just finished my journey through Gene Wolfe's Book of the Short Sun. I feel like a kid who went on a field trip through an avant garde art display exhibited in the basement of CERN with a schitzophrenic teacher who only communicated in Etch-a-Sketch. Well, that's a slight exaggeration but goddamn do I feel like I've got a second reading with a corkboard and some string in my future. It's funny how basic and straightforward Book of the Long Sun feels at the end of it all; those sweet simple times when you were fairly certain you fully understood the identity of your narrator at all times, and his position in space/time. Such simple children we were then. Such pure pleasures and innocent crimes. Back when narrators were only unreliable because they were people with regular person perspectives and not hybrid personality ghost... part alien.. revenant.. dreamlords??? Trans Galactic Insurance: Adventures of a Jump Space Accountant
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Jun 15, 2022 00:33
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anyway if you want to read 70s fantasy we're doing that right now, except good https://twitter.com/alloy_dr/status/1533272607872663552?s=20&t=OrdXENjhNFsPIpnF1YY4_g
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Jun 15, 2022 00:35
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DACK FAYDEN posted:Garth Nix is fine, right? Kids can still read Sabriel? Sabriel and sequels have several examples of private school kids actually being brave and honourable and doing good deeds. This is dangerous misinformation to give to your children. Verdict: Cancelled.
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Jun 15, 2022 00:37
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Susan Cooper was pretty cool right? Diana Wynne Jones was great. idk a lot of the books I read as a kid held up. Definitely not Eddings though, eesh.
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Jun 15, 2022 00:48
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If you want non-problematic intro to fantasy for kids, Bwastquest is pretty good. There's like 200 of them though
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Jun 15, 2022 01:29
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I watched the movie RRR: Rise Roar Revolt the other night and I tell ya, I wasn't expecting the big traitor-Baru twist halfway through
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Jun 15, 2022 01:37
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Mr Hootington posted:How are David Eddings "Belgariad" and "Mallorean" series? Are they enjoyable reads? I read the first five books as a teen-ager and then sold them and never touched another Eddings book. Long answer: no not really.
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Jun 15, 2022 01:52
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I loved both series as they got me into reading fantasy, and I bought the books again at a used bookstore when they had em on sale. Sucks the author turned out to be horrible, but he's dead now and I can't really see the point of boycotting a dead guy. He also had a thing for sentient rocks. Weird dude.
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Jun 15, 2022 01:56
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Finished Time of Contempt Slowly making my way through these books, should finish them by the end of the year or sooner, I think Probably my least favorite of these so far, especially due to the ending of this book ah yes, stop the rape, you foul man, says the woman, come here, I, a woman, will comfort you *rapes u instead of the man* this is certainly better /s. I don't particularly care for the explanation afterwards of why these are bad people, and how that justifies the actions....while the victim proceeds to party with the rapists... GreenBuckanneer fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Jun 15, 2022 |
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Jun 15, 2022 02:02
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Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:I loved both series as they got me into reading fantasy, and I bought the books again at a used bookstore when they had em on sale. Sucks the author turned out to be horrible, but he's dead now and I can't really see the point of boycotting a dead guy. I didn't stop reading because he was a monster or a racist. I stopped reading because he was a loving hack.
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Jun 15, 2022 02:03
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Kazzah posted:I watched the movie RRR: Rise Roar Revolt the other night and I tell ya, I wasn't expecting the big traitor-Baru twist halfway through It was really good but yeah that was kinda unintentionally funny
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Jun 15, 2022 02:03
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Copernic posted:and I guess lloyd alexander. And Susan Cooper.
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Jun 15, 2022 02:19
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3D Megadoodoo posted:I didn't stop reading because he was a monster or a racist. I stopped reading because he was a loving hack. I picked up a book that sounded interesting and then made the mistake of reading the author's note where he specifically thanks David and Leigh Eddings because he was so inspired by their books that they made him a writer. And while it's always good to be inspired, the fact that he was thanking them in his book published in 2021 made me put the book back. I too enjoyed the Belgariad and Mallorean series when I first read them, but literally anything else I picked up by the Eddings after that fell flat. because as others have said, it was the same formula. And then when I went back to read them again all of the books' flaws seemed extremely obvious. As Leng said earlier, Redemption of Althalus is the same thing delivered in a standalone packet. I'm glad I found better fantasy after that. I did make the mistake of reading their Dreamers series that came out in the early oughts and it was the biggest waste of time that I should have DNF'd. Because the ending was basically the equivalent of "and it was all a dream." Spoilering out of habit, not because I want anyone to read these books.
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Jun 15, 2022 02:19
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3D Megadoodoo posted:I didn't stop reading because he was a monster or a racist. I stopped reading because he was a loving hack. I mean, he wrote basically the same book series what, 4 times? Belgariad/Mallorean, the Sparhawk trilogies, Althalus, and Dreamers. He wrote to a formula (and admitted that’s what he was doing!) and they’re fine within that formula. They’re the fantasy equivalent of an airport thriller - is it well written? No. Is it well plotted? Also no. Is it okay as a way to waste some time when you’re a kid who doesn’t know poo poo? Sure. There’s definitely better out there but if you’re desperate for something to read, they’re at least better than reading LitRPG books. (The authors were awful people, find a way to read them that doesn’t reward them or their estates, like the library.)
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Jun 15, 2022 02:23
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https://twitter.com/ByIanJames/status/1536863641194049536 I'm gonna be a Merry Perry 
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Jun 15, 2022 02:26
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:anyway if you want to read 70s fantasy we're doing that right now, except good For some reason,¹ despite enjoying the poo poo out of the Riddle-Master trilogy, and having a copy on the shelves, I never got around to reading The Forgotten Beasts of Eld. Maybe I should do that when my current queue empties. ¹ In retrospect, possibly because the cover art was painfully generic "woman in boob armour riding a dragon". ToxicFrog fucked around with this message at 03:33 on Jun 15, 2022 |
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Jun 15, 2022 03:30
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City of Brass is ok. Some parts are like ok this is cool, but other parts are like I don't care. Although the main character lady getting turned on by noticing how ripped the genie is was funny.
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Jun 15, 2022 03:50
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Kalman posted:There’s definitely better out there but if you’re desperate for something to read, they’re at least better than reading LitRPG books. ...eh. Eddings is about* the only author where I'd say "have you considered LitRPG X instead?" *Also Goodkind, of course.
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Jun 15, 2022 03:55
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Sapkowski, the Witcher author, also said he hates politics and his books aren't really about politics, but, from a macro level, are about politics and drama  I'm on Baptism of Fire and it's currently talking about being politically neutral or not, from a bunch of sorcerers who are generally not politically neutral.
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Jun 15, 2022 04:03
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liberals have this thing where they all have to be ascended god beings floating above the base politics of everyone else but, like... politics and economics is literally all of society lol, you simply can't tell a story about anything bigger than a group of a couple people without it coming in to play somehow.
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Jun 15, 2022 04:13
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Larry Parrish posted:liberals have this thing where they all have to be ascended god beings floating above the base politics of everyone else but, like... politics and economics is literally all of society lol, you simply can't tell a story about anything bigger than a group of a couple people without it coming in to play somehow. I'm not sure the connotation here, I consider myself to be extremely left of center, it just stood out to me because it's anything but politics agnostic.
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Jun 15, 2022 04:24
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I'm about halfway through the The Galaxy, and the Ground Within by Becky Chambers, and drat. Amazing as always. It's got such a clean and perfect premise: "What if a Kessler Syndrome event happened and a bunch of aliens got stranded at a space-truck-stop and had to make friends while they were stranded." It's right up there with The Long Way to a Small Angry Planet with the simple premise "What if I wrote a hippy-road-trip novel, but it takes place in a sprawling space-opera setting?" I'm pretty sure that nothing will unseat A Closed and Common Orbit as my favorite Becky Chambers book (I just cried and cried watching that robot and that clone work on finding their place in the world) but this is definitely up there.
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Jun 15, 2022 05:01
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Yeah Ground Within is probably my favorite of them tbh. It's tied with the one about the Exile Fleet or w.e. it's called, it's really sad too.
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Jun 15, 2022 08:05
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withak posted:Redwall is pretty racist. We're working on a sliding scale here, at least it isn't pedophilia and kids in cages? I've actually never read it, so it could be horribly racist and I'm sorry.
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Jun 15, 2022 10:39
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Redwall, IIRC, is racist in that the heroes are prey animals like mice and rabbits, and the predators are universally evil. So, yeah, it's racist in a "this species are all good guys and this one is all bad guys" way, but I have to admit that I feel a bit ridiculous saying something like "It's racist because the book about mice portrays all weasels as evil". I did read those books when I was 10 or so, though, so if there was anything in them like "All the weasels are Jewish stereotypes" or whatnot, it went entirely over my head at the time and I don't remember it 25 years later.
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Jun 15, 2022 11:22
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Khizan posted:Redwall, IIRC, is racist in that the heroes are prey animals like mice and rabbits, and the predators are universally evil. So, yeah, it's racist in a "this species are all good guys and this one is all bad guys" way, but I have to admit that I feel a bit ridiculous saying something like "It's racist because the book about mice portrays all weasels as evil". There's one where the good animals raise a baby bad animal his whole life and he still turns out to be evil because it's in his blood. I seem to remember.
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Jun 15, 2022 12:05
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Yeah you don't have to give Jacques much credit to see that he was writing for kids and wanted clear cut good guys and bad guys and was not penning some masterful years-long hyperdunk on The Other. I don't disagree that writing a species/race as universally evil is generally not great writing practice because you can get into gnarly racial overtones quickly without even intending to -- but there are ways authors end up writing that way without being villains who wanted to poo poo on races of actual humans.
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Jun 15, 2022 12:07
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HopperUK posted:There's one where the good animals raise a baby bad animal his whole life and he still turns out to be evil because it's in his blood. I seem to remember. Oh yeah I read that one from the holotapes in that trailer park with all the ghouls and the hidden bunker.
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Jun 15, 2022 12:15
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HopperUK posted:There's one where the good animals raise a baby bad animal his whole life and he still turns out to be evil because it's in his blood. I seem to remember. This is the danger of writing animals as humans, you run into the giant minefield of “humans are all basically the same because of our ludicrously inbred genetic diversity but nonhuman animals absolutely aren’t.” There’s a sort of vague theory that humans have gone through a process of self-domestication, we’ve got the same extended childhoods and strong social cues as other domesticated animals. If you set aside the connotations and subtext about people Jacques wasn’t wrong: you can’t domesticate a wild animal and it’s a bad idea to try. But because his animals are basically people this turns into “you can’t raise a bad person to be good” which veers straight into  and Drone Jett posting.
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Jun 15, 2022 13:44
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HopperUK posted:There's one where the good animals raise a baby bad animal his whole life and he still turns out to be evil because it's in his blood. I seem to remember. Outcast of Redwall, yeah. It explicitly, textually asks the question "would a predator raised by the prey protagonists turn out good or evil" and then comes down hard on "evil, lol". IIRC at the very end he sacrifices himself to save his adopted mom, who ends the book thinking "I guess he really did love me in his own way, but that doesn't excuse all the poisonings and poo poo, pity my dead adopted son was so evil".
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Jun 15, 2022 14:05
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Actually I do wonder how the same situation would turn out irl. Cats are obligate carnivores but also clearly capable of identifying some prey animals as friends and not eating them (much). Maybe a stoat or weasel or ferret would be the same with some ‘friendly’ mice? I am not going to try this because I am not an animal researcher with a very permissive IRB. Jacques forgot to make the mice eat their offspring a bunch, what a hack.
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Jun 15, 2022 14:10
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Sinatrapod posted:Detroit Wizard Plumbers Yes please.
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Jun 15, 2022 14:20
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Redwall taught me that you can always spot a bad guy by his appearance, and vice versa.
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Jun 15, 2022 14:23
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General Battuta posted:
Yeah, a Redwall novel set in a winter after a failed harvest would make Watership Down seem like a Paddington book.
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Jun 15, 2022 14:25
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drat I need to re-read watership down and see how that holds up, one of those "burned into my brain" books. "Mister Pigvig! Ees rabbits come!" drat that scene ruled. There was a sort-of sequel too that was set during the winter and was just shittons of El-Ariah stories. Also "You will have a thousand enemies, and if they catch you they will kill you. But first they must catch you." remains one of the all time great lines. edit: has anyone else read the author's other stuff? I was just looking on Goodreads and he has way more books than I would've thought, might need to try a few.
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Jun 15, 2022 14:31
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Benagain posted:edit: has anyone else read the author's other stuff? I was just looking on Goodreads and he has way more books than I would've thought, might need to try a few. The Plague Dogs is fairly horrifying. I've always wanted to try Shardik some day. If you like animal fantasy stories that will kick your heart's rear end, by the way, try The Book of the Dun Cow. "John Wesley will do for you!" is one of those scenes I'll never forget. Read the sequels at your own risk though. Selachian fucked around with this message at 14:44 on Jun 15, 2022 |
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Jun 15, 2022 14:42
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Benagain posted:drat I need to re-read watership down and see how that holds up, one of those "burned into my brain" books. I read Shardik a long time ago, but have forgotten almost everything about it. And whatever you do, don't read The Plague Dogs if you're feeling sensitive.
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Jun 15, 2022 14:43
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Benagain posted:drat I need to re-read watership down and see how that holds up, one of those "burned into my brain" books. I own most of his books and the only ones I've been able to read are Watership Down and his illustrated children's book _the ship's cat_ about a cat who is a pirate (it's a great book but short and for little kids). Everything else is super mega depressing and so I never got into it.
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Jun 15, 2022 15:18
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A Proper Uppercut posted:We're working on a sliding scale here, at least it isn't pedophilia and kids in cages? we should use the Piers-Lovecraft Scale, which evaluates books on a 1-10 ladder of being problematic: --------- 1 2 3 [Ursula LeGuin] 4 5 [Tolkien] 6 7 8 9 10 [Piers Anthony] ---------
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Jun 15, 2022 15:31
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Copernic posted:we should use the Piers-Lovecraft Scale, which evaluates books on a 1-10 ladder of being problematic: Who's a 1? I honestly would've put LeGuin there, at least as older authors go.
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Jun 15, 2022 15:40
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