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Plastic_Gargoyle posted:Watching one of the OP's has reminded me of another thing that bugs me about SEED, the "female crew wear pink uniforms." I don't really see why that's surprising, given that even today you have shows that give female uniforms miniskirts instead of pants.
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Jun 21, 2022 02:54
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SEED's female character writing is barely better than a show from the 70s is your answer
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Jun 21, 2022 03:13
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I'm theorizing what can be up with the story in witch of mercury just by the short character snippet and what they are wearing. Like Suletta's outfit is very different from the others and I dont think its just because she transferred from a different planet. The color, the extra flairs, make it look like she would be an officer but they aren't in the military and the setting is probably more about corporate hellscape + school. It could be a service/gala uniform though. Then you have two of the guys being older than her in the same department, probable heirs to their groups that could end up being her subordinates. She's supposed to have problems communicating AND she comes from a backwater planet so I'm sure its gonna come up as a plot point.
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Jun 21, 2022 03:54
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I think there isn't going to be any war. It's just going to be about Suletta coming to the big city and learning to open up to other people through her love of piloting robots.
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Jun 21, 2022 04:00
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I hope the school gets blown up by a corpo strike team so all the students have to team up to pilot their gundams and start a turf war.
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Jun 21, 2022 04:26
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Gripweed posted:I think there isn't going to be any war. It's just going to be about Suletta coming to the big city and learning to open up to other people through her love of piloting robots. Arc Hammer posted:I hope the school gets blown up by a corpo strike team so all the students have to team up to pilot their gundams and start a turf war. The duality of Gundam fans. Presumably, at least one of the major corps is going to be involved in a some shady business that will cause the students to come into conflict with the school and each other. I'm just looking forward to the Super Robot Wars when Tekkadan gets hired to attack the school to steal prototypes or something.
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Jun 21, 2022 04:33
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Wait, this happens in s school with a clear war theme, and has three factions in it... This is just Fire Emblem Three Houses but with giant robots.
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Jun 21, 2022 04:46
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Gundams with wings aren't new but has there ever been a one off manga gundam that goes fir the Winged Hussar look? Seems like it would be something out of G Gundam if anything.
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Jun 21, 2022 05:21
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Kanos posted:I don't really see why that's surprising, given that even today you have shows that give female uniforms miniskirts instead of pants. the worst is definitely space battleship yamato, where the men wear military uniforms and the women wear latex body suits. iirc, this is never explained or commented on.
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Jun 21, 2022 06:19
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dogsicle posted:SEED's female character writing is barely better than a show from the 70s is your answer Nobody gets smacked in the face and instantly falls in love with her abuser in SEED. Natarle is way better than any of the women in MSG as far as I'm concerned
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Jun 21, 2022 06:23
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you get Natarle as a competent and potentially interesting character so Ramius can be further undercut by comparison, so it's really a mixed bag.
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Jun 21, 2022 06:38
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Women in the SEED universe mostly exist to get blown up in varying degrees of gruesomeness that lends one the impression at least some of the people who worked on the show were animating with one hand inside their pants in all the worst ways This is mostly true of Destiny as well except someone clearly told them to mostly knock it off with the weird gore poo poo, at least from my admittedly incredibly hazy recollection of Destiny
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Jun 21, 2022 10:48
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NikkolasKing posted:Nobody gets smacked in the face and instantly falls in love with her abuser in SEED. Natarle mostly exists to be the hardass "here's the hard/bad call" to counter Murrue's motherly good officer. She's competent throughout, but never really right despite that. I'd say Sayla outstrips Natarle personally, since, while the show never really committed to doing anything with Sayla as her own character, she was at least interesting and allowed to be competent in multiple ways. She was a good comms officer, by far the second best pilot on the White Base despite having arguably the worst unit on the White Base (with the Guntank being the only other contender) and starting half a show later than most other pilots and while Mirai falls to pieces under the pressure when Bright puts her in charge because he's sick, Sayla calmly reads the situation and helps Mirai rescue the ship from the trap Mirai lead them into. She even has her own arc, even if it's quite a small one the show never puts a lot of focus on (though she still gets more than anyone else bar Amuro or Char), joining the White Base mostly to save her own life and to pursue her brother, then realizing in the end that Casval is dead and that Char is all that's left. Beyond Sayla though, yeah, 0079 doesn't offer a lot. Matilda is competent and brave, but is only around for a handful of episodes and is mostly someone for Amuro to moon over, Fraw is mostly a surrogate maternal figure, Mirai is a good second in command but horrible senior officer who buckles under pressure the one time she's in charge and, as you say, has a weird 70s romance, Lalah is mostly a plot device to amp up the tension between Amuro and Char etc. drrockso20 posted:Women in the SEED universe mostly exist to get blown up in varying degrees of gruesomeness that lends one the impression at least some of the people who worked on the show were animating with one hand inside their pants in all the worst ways Do they? I would say SEED is one of the better Gundam shows for how much it allows it's female characters to do, if anything, because Murrue and Lacus are generally competent throughout, with Lacus specifically doing a lot to drive the plot in the second half, Cagalli is generally competent despite her headstrong actions and even Mirillia has more relevance than Sai or the rest of Kira's male childhood friends; and while Natarle and Fllay do die, they also do so at the end of the show after Natarle shows competence at her job throughout the show and Fllay has an arc and some actual depth (even if it's mostly soap opera style stuff). I don't even remember either of their deaths being particularly gruesome. Natarle gets shot a few times before we see the Dominion blow up, and Fllay is just killed in a generic explosion if I recall. I'm pretty sure there's more relevant and competent women in SEED than in G, Wing, X, Destiny, 00 and AGE just sticking to mainline AUs (i.e. no Build stuff) and probably more than in 0079 and Victory too. Maybe some others as well. Hell, Destiny is worse, if anything, since while it may tone down the gore (I cannot recall off hand), most of the really gorey stuff in SEED just happened to random background characters from recollection and Cagalli gets turned into a weepy idiot in Destiny, while the new female characters in Talia, Meer, Lunamaria and Meyrin are all dumber and less relevant than their SEED counterparts, with stupider conclusions. Talia's death being particularly egregious, given her stated motivations. tsob fucked around with this message at 12:22 on Jun 21, 2022 |
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Jun 21, 2022 12:15
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NikkolasKing posted:Nobody gets smacked in the face and instantly falls in love with her abuser in SEED. I dunno, I mean the reverse kinda occurs with Kira falling in love with his abuser (Flay) for a stretch. It's just that it's Kira's VA getting kicked in the balls instead  . I was not sad to see her shuttle get popped at the end of the series.Natarle was a real good character though.
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Jun 21, 2022 12:44
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Fivemarks posted:MAcross has a message of "The horribleness of the idol industry including all the abuse and harassment and commodification of Idols is good actually" and I Don't think 00 had that. I think its worth remembering that a lot of fans are wilfully ignorant of the truth of the idol industry because it breaks the illusion. In this sense, it helps to think of the idol industry as having all of the same abuse structures as the wrestling industry internationally. I do not think Macross even has a meaningful thesis on idol culture beyond "it is invoked as a means to discuss music and wider human existence". I very much enjoyed Frontier, though I did feel very conflicted while watching and I imagine I probably will see the things that brought you to this conclusion should I watch it again though I'm of the mind that there was zero intentionality on the part of the creators to make a statement on the matter. This may no longer be true with the case of Delta, though however I have not yet seen it and nor do I wish to. There is nothing of value in Delta.
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Jun 21, 2022 14:47
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You realize that most idol singer groups are not akb48, right
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Jun 21, 2022 14:54
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Expo70 posted:In this sense, it helps to think of the idol industry as having all of the same abuse structures as the wrestling industry internationally. Or like Basically every entertainment industry. Again, this poo poo is prevalent in all forms of showbusiness and to pretend that the Japanese idol industry is somehow uniquely bad is silly.
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Jun 21, 2022 14:54
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Macross had Grace picking up Sheryl of the street, running her until she fell off then discarding her like trash for the new hotness. And Minmay being stuck in contract with her abusive cousin as her manager. The series has no illusions about what the industry is like.
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Jun 21, 2022 14:56
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Waffleman_ posted:Or like While I do somewhat agree, I used the wrestling analogy due to the link with obsessive fans, aggressive lifestyle/dieting restrictions and fitness limitations and the extremely unreasonable travelling which removes the potential to have a functioning personal life such as a family. The same cannot be said for say, movie-actors or television actors -- and likewise, the dominant body of entertainment which is actually everybody you don't see who make the entertainment happen.
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Jun 21, 2022 15:48
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Gaius Marius posted:Macross had Grace picking up Sheryl of the street, running her until she fell off then discarding her like trash for the new hotness. And Minmay being stuck in contract with her abusive cousin as her manager. The series has no illusions about what the industry is like. They regularly put them out in the line of fire. The idol and the combat pilot really are two halves of the same coin (of imperialism)
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Jun 21, 2022 15:55
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:You realize that most idol singer groups are not akb48, right Of course I don't think that : ) The sense of entitlement men have to the access of women's bodies will never amaze me though. RangerKarl posted:They regularly put them out in the line of fire. The idol and the combat pilot really are two halves of the same coin (of imperialism) A recent read a friend gave was this, and I think you might find it interesting: quote:Ultimately Macross is an ideological work, and it’s common for ideologies to frame their tenets as some sort of profound truth The counter-argument to this read was that the Zentradi were an attempt to personify the concept of militarism, so the message of Macross wasn't "burn uncultured savages" so much as "abandon military thinking, and allow yourself to consider the humanity of your opponents" -- and they're able to frame it this way because the Zentradi have nothing BUT militarism and this rejects the concept that militarism is in itself for many people their culture: quote:Look if Macross wanted to sell itself as a story about militarism instead of a story about culture then this wouldn’t be a problem, but that’s not what it does [...] it presents militarism as being an outcome of the Bad Culture and to get over it you need to switch to the Good Culture. If it was just about how to get rid of militarism then it would have nothing to say, because nobody in real life lacks culture like the Zentradi do. [...] It’s saying that how you reject militarism is by trading in your bad militaristic culture for the good peaceful one. Which is sort of to imply that we're seeing echoes of the original problem, so Macross in itself a recursive oroborous story that's guilty of that which it accuses which is... A very interesting read I wouldn't have come up with on my own and one I think is at least worth sharing for further discussion? It might seem nonsensical but if you're a TCK (a milbrat, probably), their point will make much much more sense to you, or if you view it in that frame of reference. We can of course say "well duh, the folks who have militarism as their culture will say that" but that negates the fact that militarism is in itself, often a culture for many peoples and that a lot of culture appears as a response to conflicts and struggles in the first place to fortify messages which allow future generations to prosper as a memetic technology. I think the further things this tells us about deculture as a whole is VERY interesting and I seriously lack the skills or expertise to explore these themes further and I desperately want to hear what you guys think of this read. Expo70 fucked around with this message at 16:06 on Jun 21, 2022 |
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Jun 21, 2022 15:57
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I feel like the Gundam Thread and the General Mecha Thread have flipped.
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Jun 21, 2022 17:10
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Arc Hammer posted:I feel like the Gundam Thread and the General Mecha Thread have flipped. Let us return to Gundam.
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Jun 21, 2022 17:15
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Re Turn A Gundam. Following the employees of a mobile suit rental store.
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Jun 21, 2022 17:32
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Expo70 posted:Let us return to Gundam. A reconguista of Gundam?
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Jun 21, 2022 17:34
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Cao Ni Ma posted:I'm theorizing what can be up with the story in witch of mercury just by the short character snippet and what they are wearing. Given the writer is not shy about putting supernatural elements in his mecha shows, at all, I'd imagine Suletta's going to just be a straight up Newtype and the different colored uniform is to mark her as part of some sort of Newtype pilot program. Especially as the information we have suggests she's being shipped back to the imperial core from a really distant and definitely dangerous planet, and in the og series that's how you get a Newtype, far from Earth's gravity and under constant stress.
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Jun 21, 2022 17:39
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She does have the other type of uniform in the teaser, so her changing colors might be a plot point.
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Jun 21, 2022 17:45
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Denim Avenger posted:in the og series that's how you get a Newtype, far from Earth's gravity and under constant stress. No, it isn't. Amuro, the shows primary Newtype, awakens on Earth.
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Jun 21, 2022 17:50
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Have we had any series where the main pilot was definitely a newtype or whatever BEFORE the start of the series? I'm not counting Mika having 3 whiskers here, that's not supernatural.
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Jun 21, 2022 17:54
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wdarkk posted:Have we had any series where the main pilot was definitely a newtype or whatever BEFORE the start of the series? Unicorn.
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Jun 21, 2022 18:01
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tsob posted:No, it isn't. Amuro, the shows primary Newtype, awakens on Earth. I admit it's been a year since I rewatched OG Gundam, but I don't remember the word Newtype coming up before Lalah showed up. And I used the Char quote from Zeta intentionally, both he and Amuro on Zeta agree that space is how you get Newtype power. wdarkk posted:Have we had any series where the main pilot was definitely a newtype or whatever BEFORE the start of the series? Zeta Gundam's first episode has Kamille having Newtype visions.
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Jun 21, 2022 18:05
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Narrative is like, the bizarro version of that
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Jun 21, 2022 18:24
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wdarkk posted:Have we had any series where the main pilot was definitely a newtype or whatever BEFORE the start of the series? Does Domon being a kung fu wizard count as a Newtype
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Jun 21, 2022 18:28
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Does Domon being a kung fu wizard count as a Newtype That's actually a good question, I sort of want to say it depends on if anybody could train to become a kung fu wizard, but in theory you could have ended up with a gigantic newtype population (and maybe did, depending on what happened to those colony cylinders that migrated).
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Jun 21, 2022 18:41
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usually uc gundam characters only have their full newtype awakening once they return to space. before that point they often have intermittent or uncontrollable newtype flashes, though.
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Jun 21, 2022 18:58
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ninjewtsu posted:Narrative is like, the bizarro version of that Is Rita currently the earliest newtype awakening we've seen? I know Origin had the brief prewar moment where Char gets a newtype flash while he was down un South America but he didn't really turn newtype until right before A Baoa Qu.
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Jun 21, 2022 18:59
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Denim Avenger posted:I admit it's been a year since I rewatched OG Gundam, but I don't remember the word Newtype coming up before Lalah showed up. The word Newtype does not show up until fairly late in the show, but there's talk about "ESPers" before that.
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Jun 21, 2022 19:25
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tsob posted:Do they? I would say SEED is one of the better Gundam shows for how much it allows it's female characters to do, if anything, because Murrue and Lacus are generally competent throughout, with Lacus specifically doing a lot to drive the plot in the second half, Cagalli is generally competent despite her headstrong actions and even Mirillia has more relevance than Sai or the rest of Kira's male childhood friends; and while Natarle and Fllay do die, they also do so at the end of the show after Natarle shows competence at her job throughout the show and Fllay has an arc and some actual depth (even if it's mostly soap opera style stuff). I don't even remember either of their deaths being particularly gruesome. Natarle gets shot a few times before we see the Dominion blow up, and Fllay is just killed in a generic explosion if I recall. Cagalli is introduced as a competent character but practically every time she actually does anything it's ineffective or entirely a failure , when she gets her own Gundam at the end of the show it goes out of the way to say "make sure the assist AI is on because the pilot is a newbie", and even her SEED moment doesn't lead to her actually achieving anything in the fight before the boys show up to win it. As someone who watched SEED recently and had seen people complaining for years about Destiny sidelining Cagalli, the actual show shocked me with the idea she could be treated worse than she already was. She suffers from something SEED does a lot, where it presents the idea of a character trait or relationship and then doesn't follow through with it on screen, you're just expected to perceive the character through a lens that the show doesn't try to justify.
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Jun 21, 2022 20:01
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Cagalli is a natural. She needs the ai to pilot
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Jun 21, 2022 20:06
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Gaius Marius posted:Cagalli is a natural. She needs the ai to pilot This sounds like a bologna excuse. Is she not a special person because it drives her to be better and strive to do well despite the obvious lack of benefit the other pilots have in being special people? (Like say for instance Julieta in IBO) Or is it just so that the writers can have her fail and point out "well, it's not because she's a woman it's because she's not one of the special people" which only exists in the first place because the writers
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