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i am a moron posted:Yes sign up for leadership seminars in <nice beachside city you like>, drink a lot, then come back to work a management machine I knew it
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Jul 15, 2022 01:33
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Management_by_wandering_around
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Jul 15, 2022 01:37
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The real big brains play is pretend like you’re going to Tampa but then use the per diem to hide out at a hotel down the street from your house and drink alone for the sole purpose of avoiding your family
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Jul 15, 2022 01:38
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Speaking of management my next round of dumb vendor meetings for dosh is next week. https://quartznetwork.com/ Y’all get in on the easy grift.
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Jul 15, 2022 01:42
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Silly Newbie posted:I just need some kind of training or a cert I can go through and show it to the bosses like "you wanted me to take some training because I had no management experience, here it is!" I mean, you can. But management is literally one of those jobs where you try to emulate the good bosses you had, resist the urge to do things that seem like “that one boss you hated” and then learn by doing. You want always make the right call. But you learn and grow. ALSO is your boss trying to mentor you at all? When I started I had a lot of conversations with my boss about decisions I wanted to make, and my solution. She would usually just go “that’s good, go” other times “have you considered X”. Really does a good one. Especially because a lot of it is you understanding the dynamics of the people, the politics, the budget and time and working within those so they are happy campers. Edit: also books help get into frame of mind. The mission, the men and me was mentioned. Also: extreme ownership and the follow up book were helpful to me in the beginning. ptier fucked around with this message at 02:18 on Jul 15, 2022 |
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Jul 15, 2022 02:08
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Sepist posted:There's dozens of us ITT This? This is power. Also I joined this trade to avoid being a manager anymore and ended up trading one pain for MSP pain, hosed up tbh
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Jul 15, 2022 02:17
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ptier posted:I mean, you can. But management is literally one of those jobs where you try to emulate the good bosses you had, resist the urge to do things that seem like “that one boss you hated” and then learn by doing. You want always make the right call. But you learn and grow. ALSO is your boss trying to mentor you at all? When I started I had a lot of conversations with my boss about decisions I wanted to make, and my solution. She would usually just go “that’s good, go” other times “have you considered X”. Really does a good one. Especially because a lot of it is you understanding the dynamics of the people, the politics, the budget and time and working within those so they are happy campers. Oh no doubt, I don't expect any kind of training to actually improve my management ability other than maybe teach me one or two things I hadn't thought of before. I'm just looking for something I can spend some company money to do and afterward say "you asked me to take some management training. Here is the management training I did. I'm sure I learned a lot". My boss is the CFO, and I think this might be his first time managing people too. He's taken several of my people management ideas, like one quick stand up meeting early in the week, occasional department happy hour things, and other team building without being intrusive stuff like that and implemented the same for the people that report to him. I'm the end all be all for IT, but I'm learning a lot about the finance side that seems important.
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Jul 15, 2022 02:19
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ASAPRockySituation posted:This? This is power. I think you're misreading it. We both know each others usernames, there's no ambiguity. Edit: I can provide no management advice. I didn't read books or take classes. I just try to look out for my team and make sure they're being treated fairly and are working on stuff that keeps them interested. I do so much engineering myself that I don't get enough "management" things done but fortunately my lead has 10 years management experience and does a great job making up for my shortcomings there. Sepist fucked around with this message at 02:23 on Jul 15, 2022 |
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Jul 15, 2022 02:19
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Jokes is jokes though that seems like it’d be somewhat awkward for you both, nobody can post their whole rear end I imagine management is a lot better when you have reasonable resources but I can’t say I ever felt that end of it. When you don’t have enough, you’re in for pain probably. I certainly felt it. In true agile that wouldn’t happen but it’s a waterfall world in a half assed agile suit, so. Just communicate with your team enough to know when and why they’re unhappy and make sure they know you’re listening, I had folks do crazy stuff for me in doing that.
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Jul 15, 2022 02:26
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ASAPRockySituation posted:Jokes is jokes though that seems like it’d be somewhat awkward for you both, nobody can post their whole rear end Oh yea I think that was a concern before joining IIRC but it all worked out. I barely look at SA outside this thread though so there's plenty of places to complain about our company without me noticing!
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Jul 15, 2022 02:32
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Sepist posted:Oh yea I think that was a concern before joining IIRC but it all worked out. I barely look at SA outside this thread though so there's plenty of places to complain about our company without me noticing! Way to out me
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Jul 15, 2022 02:45
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Don't come to work tomorrow this was strike 3
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Jul 15, 2022 02:49
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Sepist posted:Don't come to work tomorrow this was strike 3 Finally
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Jul 15, 2022 03:03
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He only bowls so strikes are good.
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Jul 15, 2022 03:18
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tokin opposition posted:Day 4 of new job, I finally feel like I knew what I was doing for a majority of the day Day 4 of new job myself. Got to break something intentionally and blame Microsoft while running around fixing the issue for everyone and building good will. Didn’t have time to automate the fix though. Also found out Fridays and Mondays are WFH days watch is a nice bonus.
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Jul 15, 2022 03:22
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Silly Newbie posted:Oh no doubt, I don't expect any kind of training to actually improve my management ability other than maybe teach me one or two things I hadn't thought of before. I'm just looking for something I can spend some company money to do and afterward say "you asked me to take some management training. Here is the management training I did. I'm sure I learned a lot". I hear what you're saying. I think the "managing people" part might be what folks are struggling with. I think it's harder to find training for just that. I'd look into ITIL / ITSM / Toastmasters / an MBA bootcamp / PMQ / Agile certifications, etc. See what seems most interesting to you.
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Jul 15, 2022 03:54
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Internet Explorer posted:I hear what you're saying. I think the "managing people" part might be what folks are struggling with. I think it's harder to find training for just that. I'd look into ITIL / ITSM / Toastmasters / an MBA bootcamp / PMQ / Agile certifications, etc. See what seems most interesting to you. I was thinking about ITIL and ITSM, but some kind of MBA boot camp might be what I should really look at. I'm strong technically and in project management, strong in managing people from the "what kind of bosses helped me succeed in the past and what did they do" philosophy, but I'm relatively weak on the business side of things. Thanks everyone who contributed, talking it out helped my own thought processes too.
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Jul 15, 2022 04:22
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Silly Newbie posted:I was thinking about ITIL and ITSM, but some kind of MBA boot camp might be what I should really look at. I'm strong technically and in project management, strong in managing people from the "what kind of bosses helped me succeed in the past and what did they do" philosophy, but I'm relatively weak on the business side of things. MBA stuff is better once you have a few years of management under your belt I have been told. Look for short courses on coaching, day or two day workshops on specific leadership models, such as capability leadership etc. And I suggest a mentor, like a proper external professional you engage fortnightly or monthly like a counsellor, but for professional things. That you can talk to confidentially.
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Jul 15, 2022 05:10
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I know we've had this discussion before but are there any good ways of dealing with burnout that don't include taking time off? I've mentally hit a wall from explaining the same things over and over to the point that I just don't feel motivated to do anything, not even other work than what isn't problematic. But I also have a shitton of very urgent work that needs to be done. I'm just sick of fighting for permission to do the work and sick of trying to explain how things work to people who have no interest it beyond injecting their opinions which have no basis in fact.
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Jul 15, 2022 07:57
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GnarlyCharlie4u posted:I know we've had this discussion before but are there any good ways of dealing with burnout that don't include taking time off? Quoting myself from before. Internet Explorer posted:Sorry you're in that situation. My only real advice here is that it's not your job to make sure your department is adequately staffed. That's management's job and if they aren't taking that sort of thing seriously, you sure as gently caress shouldn't be killing yourself over it. Don't apologize to end users, don't work extra hours, don't bust your rear end trying to keep up. Let the squeaky wheel get the grease. I have often struggled with burnout. You should absolutely take time off, so do that if you can, but it's not enough if it's a poo poo job. If you can't fix your current place and you can't mentally check out, my advice is to find a new job. There's countless stories of goons in this thread and the other IT threads who went through the same thing and were much happier after leaving.
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Jul 15, 2022 08:09
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Silly Newbie posted:I was thinking about ITIL and ITSM, but some kind of MBA boot camp might be what I should really look at. I'm strong technically and in project management, strong in managing people from the "what kind of bosses helped me succeed in the past and what did they do" philosophy, but I'm relatively weak on the business side of things. If you want to go extra, you could do an MBA (including in information technology management) in 6 months from WGU and have them pay for it, but that isn’t the quick turnaround for you to point at that I feel like you’re looking for. And will require more work than sitting in a class.
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Jul 15, 2022 12:15
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Well I passed my first ever coding challenge last week and final stage interview yesterday. Assuming my references are okay then I guess I'm starting a new job soon. It's only a 15 person company, never worked somewhere like that so don't know what to expect, the smallest org I've worked for is 3.5k people. Feel kind of bad for my boss since I'm leaving them in the lurch and he's a very decent guy, especially because he just mentioned he's trying to get a network architect position set up for me. I'm really tired of this place, the new position would pay better if they offered it but wouldn't solve any of the issues. The culture here is kind of poo poo. Lots of finger pointing and dodging responsibility. I've been working from 9am to 8 or 9pm for the last month or so because of this awfully managed migration project they're doing. I know some of it is my own doing as the security bits are happening because I'm trying to fix the garage environment but this work is incredibly boring and tedious, even after I've automated most of it. I can't stand being in meetings for five minutes with these people, let alone working with them on this for another 4 months. Almost lost my temper in a meeting at one dickhead this week because he tried blaming someone else for not doing the discovery work that he was supposed to do. We've all been on the same meetings and this person he blamed has never been asked to do that work. He doesn't do poo poo, I've heard of other instances in the past where he's blamed others and got caught out on it but nothing gets done... He's been here over half a decade and I found out recently nothing will get done because if a manager has an employee on a performance improvement plan then the manager gets a bad review and doesn't get their pay raise. I'm tired of feeling constantly stressed trying to keep on top of everything here. They do project allocations to split your weekly time. I have a 97.5% project allocation, split across about 10 projects every week, with 2.5% of BAU support but I still get every query or ticket because everyone knows the other network engineer here is hopeless. I'm doing the most work on this migration project but I only have a 30% allocation, everyone else assigned has 100% allocation to it.
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Jul 15, 2022 12:30
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MBAs are for networking. If you do it any other way you are irradiating your brain with stupid business school poo poo for practically no reason. Not sure what a bootcamp is, but if it’s online don’t do it. If you’re looking at a school that isn’t regionally accredited I wouldn’t bother either. People who care about MBAs aren’t hiring people with MBAs from University of Phoenix or WGU. It’s also a badge of incredible, almost bottomless douchiness
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Jul 15, 2022 12:42
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remember that bug in server 2008r2 where when setting up a new network adapter it will just like, wipe out anything you put in the default gateway field? multiple times until it finally sticks?
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Jul 15, 2022 14:41
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App13 posted:God I loving love project management and the fact that everyone else hates it so much makes it even better. Continue paying me to move kan ban cards into buckets pls the problem with PM's is that a good PM is basically an invisible hand that makes a project go well, so it ends up being hard to justify having a good PM since they blend in to the background. A bad PM is highly visible since he's basically this scene from the spidermen movie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y4THGYRLtE
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Jul 15, 2022 16:22
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Got an interview in a few minutes, it'll probably get me out of help desk and hopefully out of Utah. It's not IT but whatever, I'll find my way back to IT eventually
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Jul 15, 2022 16:51
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Good luck!!
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Jul 15, 2022 16:52
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Hotel Kpro posted:Got an interview in a few minutes, it'll probably get me out of help desk and hopefully out of Utah. It's not IT but whatever, I'll find my way back to IT eventually slyly ask if they have stairs in their house
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Jul 15, 2022 16:53
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i am a moron posted:MBAs are for networking. If you do it any other way you are irradiating your brain with stupid business school poo poo for practically no reason. Not sure what a bootcamp is, but if it’s online don’t do it. If you’re looking at a school that isn’t regionally accredited I wouldn’t bother either. People who care about MBAs aren’t hiring people with MBAs from University of Phoenix or WGU. It’s also a badge of incredible, almost bottomless douchiness empty quoting this!
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Jul 15, 2022 17:10
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Had the first all hands meeting since being forced back into the office. The only question that was asked of the big boss, and two execs was “ why aren’t we allowed to work remote “ I believe the whole shop is pretty united on that. Watching those $250k public employees nearly poo poo themselves and dance around the subject like they’re about to trip over a pile of poo poo on the floor in front of them is telling. Most of us who aren’t fully institutionalized are about to leave methinks.
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Jul 15, 2022 17:46
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Internet Explorer posted:Quoting myself from before. Thanks for that. I know we talked about it but I couldn't find it. I gave my boss a gentle nudge via email. I basically said that all our meetings have just devolved into him (my boss) and my manager talking in circles around technologies that they don't have a firm grasp of while the two people who are supposed to be actually contributing to the meeting sit silent. And that I'll be able to make more progress once they've actually contributed. poo poo's either gonna fail spectacularly and my boss will have to answer for it, or someone else is going to have to do their job and let my boss take the credit. IDGAF either way.
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Jul 15, 2022 17:58
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I really feel for you. Going by your posts, it seems like a lovely situation to be in. Take care of yourself, remember your job doesn't define you, and remember that no matter how much it may feel like it, you're not stuck. You can always make your own decision on whether or not it's time to leave, PTO, vesting, benefits, etc., be damned. None of that is worth anything if it is making your life miserable.
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Jul 15, 2022 18:06
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You know I think I'm finally past the point of giving a gently caress anymore. I'm in a state job and will fully vest in the state pension fund in 3 years. I'm just gonna put in my 7.5 hours and go home everyday and not care. If a better job comes by I'll take it.
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Jul 15, 2022 18:13
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Vargatron posted:You know I think I'm finally past the point of giving a gently caress anymore. I'm in a state job and will fully vest in the state pension fund in 3 years. I'm just gonna put in my 7.5 hours and go home everyday and not care. If a better job comes by I'll take it. Nearly identical boat here. I keep going back and forth between may as well ride it out and the pension ain't loving worth it.
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Jul 15, 2022 18:21
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That’s a lot better than Seagull Management
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Jul 15, 2022 18:38
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Or on-the-spot guidance
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Jul 15, 2022 19:01
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Most managers being power hungry
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Jul 15, 2022 19:08
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GnarlyCharlie4u posted:Thanks for that. I know we talked about it but I couldn't find it. If you are at the point of sending your boss emails that say he doesn't know what he's talking about, he is not going to appreciate that, and the situation is not going to get better. If you're not already applying for new jobs, do it now.
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Jul 15, 2022 19:21
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Heh, posted this in the wrong IT thread.
bull3964 fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Jul 15, 2022 |
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Jul 15, 2022 19:36
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Yup. Incidentally this ties into the another conversation happening in this thread and is why MBAs are such unrelenting douchebags. When your organization is completely subservient to shareholder value and arcane business processes, and you do fake-smart dumb poo poo like "apply LEAN management to credit card operations" you're going to have a bad time. Anyone with an MBA could regurgitate to you that the cost of hiring/retraining people is way more expensive than simply paying employees their due, but they're also too loving stupid to participate in or design systems that are anything but a capitalist meatgrinder. edit: thanks, now this looks ridiculous. im leaving it.
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Jul 15, 2022 19:43
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