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Captain Splendid posted:Not the first time he made a planet's destruction easily and instantaneously visible from other places. I can forgive the Star Wars poo poo because it's Star Wars, but Vulcan in Star Trek 2009 was dumb. However, this is apparently Roberto Orci's fault: Courtesy of Memory Alpha (https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Delta_Vega_(Vulcan_system)) quote:This planet's location in the Vulcan system is assumed based on its proximity to Vulcan, close enough for Spock to witness its destruction with the naked eye as seen in the mind meld sequence. According to writer Roberto Orci, this was meant to be "impressionistic for a general audience". He thought of Delta Vega as being in an orbit close to Vulcan's, and that the original idea – having Spock view the planet's destruction through a telescope or some other device – "[wasn't] very cinematic".
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Jul 30, 2022 11:48
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Hosnia was also, apparently, the seat of the New Republic. I do not believe we're ever told this. This is my major complaint about TFA, that it needs to communicate a lot to the audience to explain the way things have changed between RotJ and itself. It tells the audience next to nothing. Why is the First Order here and so powerful despite the Empire being destroyed and overthrown in a celebratory montage last film? Who knows. What is the significance of that planet they blew up? Only mentioned in a throwaway line after it happens. Why does there already seem to be a Resistance even before the First Order have made their first strike? You need to dig around in all these other sources to try and get a picture of the histories and goings-on, like that the New Republic was apparently ineffectual and doing nothing about the First Order so Leia was busy being the only one trying to mount a direct opposition. Contrast against ANH, where it didn't need to flow out of anything and just needed to have Evil Empire, Good Rebels. The ST has this entire feel to it that it was designed by committee when it came out the gate, that it wants you to buy all the tie-in books and comics and multimedia products to know what's happening. Prior to the acquisition it had largely been beholden to the sensibilities and intent of Lucas, who had very much kept the movies in the movies.
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Jul 30, 2022 14:26
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Ironslave posted:Why is the First Order here and so powerful despite the Empire being destroyed and overthrown in a celebratory montage last film? Who knows. What is the significance of that planet they blew up? Only mentioned in a throwaway line after it happens. Why does there already seem to be a Resistance even before the First Order have made their first strike? You need to dig around in all these other sources to try and get a picture of the histories and goings-on, like that the New Republic was apparently ineffectual and doing nothing about the First Order so Leia was busy being the only one trying to mount a direct opposition. Contrast against ANH, where it didn't need to flow out of anything and just needed to have Evil Empire, Good Rebels. You don't need supplementary materials to understand the plot of the ST. If anything, it badly confuses the matter, since Disney is using the comics as a source of continual flagrant retcons. The simple answer to why the First Order is around after the Empire is destroyed is that it's not the Empire. They use similar clothing and equipment, but so did the Republic back during the Clone Wars. The truth, as shown in the films, is that the First Order is a political party within the New Republic, similar to the Separatists and Loyalists in Episode 2. They bought their equipment from the same New Republic arms dealers that Leia did. Hux, speaking to the Resistance: Your fleet are rebel scum and war criminals! Why does Hux perceive Leia as a 'rebel' when she was never under First Order jurisdiction or anything? What was she rebelling against? The truth, as shown in the films, is that Leia is a neofeudalist like Dooku, who felt in necessary to break away from the liberal-democratic New Republic and form her own private militia to combat the rise of Snokist-Vaderist space communism. She was conducting illegal operations against New Republic worlds from a secret base out in the space-boonies, with funding from conservative elements within the New Republican Party. (Has she been doing straight-up warcrimes on their behalf? Hux may be a dumbass bad guy, but nobody contradicts him on this.) The significance of the planet they blew up is that it's the source of Leia's funding, and much of her materiel support. Although blowing up the New Republican Party is a big event for the Galaxy, it's not hugely important to the narrative because the antagonists' goal is simply to destroy Leia's militia. They didn't actually care that much about the New Republic or the New Republican party in general. Blowing up the planet simply means Leia's militia is more vulnerable than before. Again, however, we should note that all of the First Order military's actions in Episodes 7 and 8 are a "false flag" orchestrated by Palpatine to smear leftists and help the neofeudalists take power. The political fuckery in the ST is incredibly complex when compared to Lucas' films. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Jul 30, 2022 |
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Jul 30, 2022 16:44
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No Mods No Masters posted:I think if you try to make what yoda's saying explicit, his claim is that people who are learning and improving go through cycles of wanting something -> loving up, failing -> suffering some unfortunate consequence of the fuckup -> learning a lesson since you regret the consequence. tbh I don't think Finn made a mistake. As far as anyone on the planet knows, no help is coming in the short term. If the First Order succeeds in breaking through the entry to the rebel base, it's all over for everyone inside. Finn's whole thing earlier in the movie was that he was willing to ditch the Resistance to try and get to Rey. This is the point where he shows that he's willing to die to protect the rest of them, even if Rey's not in the picture. iirc, Finn's suicide run scene occurs pretty shortly after Holdo makes her own successful suicide attack. Contrary to Rose's idea that "We're going to win this war not by fighting what we hate, but saving what we love," Holdo's attack cripples the First Order fleet and is presented as unambiguously the right thing to do. Saving what she loved, perhaps, even at the cost of her own life. Finn was trying to do essentially the same thing - break the main thrust of the enemy ground attack and give the rest of the Resistance a chance at pulling through, even if he won't be around to see it. Obviously, it all works out because astral Luke shows up to distract Kylo Ren, and then Rey shows up to lift rocks, but that's not something anyone on the ground could have seen coming. The whole movie did Finn's character dirty, and it's weird that there are deleted scenes that improve his arc, give better closure to Phasma's character, and would have only added a minute or two to the runtime while setting up for the whole "Finn running with a bunch of ex-stormtroopers" concept from the next film. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzeIb-TZo_I
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Jul 30, 2022 20:19
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Finn went from someone willing to square up against Kylo Ren to a walking, talking joke. How do you explain someone willing to do this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJTz-ahXyyI To deciding to NOPE out of the Resistance.
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Jul 30, 2022 20:32
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Yeah I mean, I think finn's "failure" is nonsensical on several levels personally (much like almost everything in the movie) but rose makes it pretty clear what the movie wants you to think the failure/lesson is. That the character was done dirty, I think even 8 likers are hard pressed to dispute
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Jul 30, 2022 20:37
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Finn was done dirty, but not by TLJ. Finn starts TFA as something of a coward, but learns to care about the people close to him; he doesn't give a drat about the Resistance, he lies about his abilities to bring down Starkiller Base and has no real intention to try, he wanted to save his friend, Rey. That doesn't change going into TLJ--his explicit desire for wanting to desert was to also warn and protect Rey, to keep her from returning to this hazardous situation. In TLJ his story is learning to hate the First Order and people who stand on the sidelines, then realize hatred won't bring down the organization powered by hate. When Phasma dies she falls into a flaming inferno as Boyega glares down at her, flames billowing behind him and his face cast in red lighting. It's not subtle. His death charge is a thematic mirror of Poe's need to destroy the Dreadnought. I think it could've used a bit more emphasis on the back end, but it is there.
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Jul 30, 2022 20:59
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Ironslave posted:Finn was done dirty, but not by TLJ. Finn starts TFA as something of a coward, but learns to care about the people close to him; he doesn't give a drat about the Resistance, he lies about his abilities to bring down Starkiller Base and has no real intention to try, he wanted to save his friend, Rey. That doesn't change going into TLJ--his explicit desire for wanting to desert was to also warn and protect Rey, to keep her from returning to this hazardous situation. In TLJ his story is learning to hate the First Order and people who stand on the sidelines, then realize hatred won't bring down the organization powered by hate. When Phasma dies she falls into a flaming inferno as Boyega glares down at her, flames billowing behind him and his face cast in red lighting. It's not subtle. His death charge is a thematic mirror of Poe's need to destroy the Dreadnought. I think the bigger issue was removing the possible Force sensitive hints (he never told Rey what he wanted to tell her in the 3rd so whatever) and possible Rey romance and constantly sticking him with "race appropriate" women, which was super weird. Him just being comic relief on top for the most part only makes it stand out more.
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Jul 30, 2022 22:05
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Hazo posted:I don't think Hux would use a mega super hyperweapon to wipe out the galaxy's remaining ostensibly democratic government without clearing it with Kylo/Snoke/Palpatine first. Seems pretty fascist to me. On the other hand, they explicitly contract out the productions of their weapons and equipment. Not fascist.
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Jul 30, 2022 22:16
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Darko posted:I think the bigger issue was removing the possible Force sensitive hints (he never told Rey what he wanted to tell her in the 3rd so whatever) and possible Rey romance and constantly sticking him with "race appropriate" women, which was super weird. It was very aggravating what they did to him. And then that force sensitive stuff only got followed up on in a Lego Star Wars comedy movie. Abrams and Terrio's original outline for tRoS had him being the guy to bring down the Eternal Fleet, ziplining in to deliver a sabotage macguffin. Wish he'd had something worthwhile.
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Jul 30, 2022 22:24
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:There's nothing specifically fascist about the First Order,
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Jul 31, 2022 00:07
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the cinematography of the captain phasma death scene could not have been more obvious..... OK. WELL. IT STANK, BUDDY!
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Jul 31, 2022 00:19
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LividLiquid posted:HAHAHAHAHAHA okay, I can stop listening to you. Well, no, because that would involve showing that the baddies aren’t Soviets (for example). In fairness, the movie has confused a lot of people. Like, people tend to think Snoke is a Sith just because he’s a bad guy with superpowers. In actuality, Snoke’s belief system is quite different from Palpatine’s. This difference between Snoke and Palpatine is vital - because, again, Snoke and Kylo were created as strawmen by Palpatine so that Palpatine could pressure the New Republic into letting him retake power.
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Jul 31, 2022 00:32
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LividLiquid posted:HAHAHAHAHAHA okay, I can stop listening to you. He's not wrong. There's a bunch of parts of fascism that cannot or do not apply to the Empire or the First Order because of the nature of being a galaxy spanning system. They're totalitarian, yes, but not fascists. And even totalitarianism isn't entirely applicable (they clearly do not seek or cannot seek a monopoly on weapons, given the sheer number of them in non state hands with official or tacit approval).
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Jul 31, 2022 03:14
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Buddy, I'm not getting into any argument with anybody who wants to have a dialectic about how the space Nazis modeled after the real Nazis aren't fascists as our very real planet slides yet again into very real fascism complete with a genocide that's currently sitting at phase seven out of ten. You have fun with whomever you can bait.
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Jul 31, 2022 03:22
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Lol. You suck man
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Jul 31, 2022 03:44
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LividLiquid posted:Buddy, I'm not getting into any argument with anybody who wants to have a dialectic about how the space Nazis modeled after the real Nazis aren't fascists as our very real planet slides yet again into very real fascism complete with a genocide that's currently sitting at phase seven out of ten. You have fun with whomever you can bait. The First Order isn’t modelled on nazism. I mean, if that was anyone’s intent, then they’ve failed miserably. And I’m not sure how ignorance of that failure saves the world. Like, ok, let’s assume - for the moment - that the films are about nazism and all of the baddies are different flavours of nazi. What’s the lesson? Is Rey continually tempted to become a nazi, to the point of literally dreaming of being co-Hitler with sexy nazi Kylo Ren? Are both nazi Palpatine and nazi Hux independently plotting to assassinate nazi leader Kylo Ren for purely personal reasons? Why did nazi Palpatine disguise himself as nazi Snoke?
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Jul 31, 2022 03:45
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the issue with tfa and the sequels isnt all this in world poo poo ur talking about lol. its that theyre boring, the writing sucks rear end. theres no memorable characters nor locations nor scenes. the 'plot beats' (as if there are any worth mentioning) arent star warsy. people arguing itt about whether it was good to demote poe? lmfao. get hat bsg poo poo out of star wars. shameful. gently caress sakes. e: skipped some pages to make this post and this page has some crazy poo poo going down on it. peacce out lol 
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Jul 31, 2022 04:14
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 new season of star trek lower decks premieres august 25th!!
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Jul 31, 2022 06:14
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Smythe posted:the issue with tfa and the sequels isnt all this in world poo poo ur talking about lol. its that theyre boring, the writing sucks rear end. theres no memorable characters nor locations nor scenes. the 'plot beats' (as if there are any worth mentioning) arent star warsy. people arguing itt about whether it was good to demote poe? lmfao. get hat bsg poo poo out of star wars. shameful. gently caress sakes. somehow Palpatine returned and hes got jars of Snokes
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Jul 31, 2022 07:34
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Gresh posted:somehow Palpatine returned "Palpatine seems to be acting a bit...strange...er"
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Jul 31, 2022 17:37
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After forty years of watching behind-the-scenes footage of the making of the OT, I was not ready for the amount of stuff I'd never seen before in that ILM documentary.
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Jul 31, 2022 20:40
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LividLiquid posted:Buddy, I'm not getting into any argument with anybody who wants to have a dialectic about how the space Nazis modeled after the real Nazis aren't fascists as our very real planet slides yet again into very real fascism complete with a genocide that's currently sitting at phase seven out of ten. You have fun with whomever you can bait. I’m uh really interested but also scared to ask as to what fascism and genocide scenario you’re referring to.
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Jul 31, 2022 22:53
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In the various "making of" prequel docs, it seems like Lucas is constantly trolling ILM with seemingly ridiculous demands like erase this character here, use this actor from another take into this one, etc. Stuff that seems not worth it especially for the guy footing every penny of the bill like he originally did for the original trilogy. Of course it could be explained by his whimsy or vision. But I feel the final episode of the series makes it clear what he was doing to (digital) ILM in the prequels. He was beta testing them. It's hard for me to imagine modern cinema or television without Lucas constantly challenging or backing other director challenges to ILM from it's inception until he sold the company.
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Aug 1, 2022 00:14
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Madurai posted:After forty years of watching behind-the-scenes footage of the making of the OT, I was not ready for the amount of stuff I'd never seen before in that ILM documentary. I'm only about 30 minutes into the first episode, but the short films those guys created as kids and teenagers are nothing short of stunning.
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Aug 1, 2022 05:23
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Andor is September now?? Sept 21. Ugh. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKOegEuCcfw
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Aug 1, 2022 13:41
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Vintersorg posted:Andor is September now?? Sept 21. Ugh. I was pretty meh so far. But this trailer looks very cool. Is that a woman as a Grand Admiral in the white suit? I hope so.  The outrage would be delicious.
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Aug 1, 2022 13:53
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Yeah that trailer was pretty fantastic. A week before Bad Batch too? Unless that's also getting a delay.
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Aug 1, 2022 13:54
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Probably delayed due to Game of Thrones prequel and LOTR show. So 3 episodes dumped at once. This looks like it is well made, bigger scope, big sets and just comparing trailers looks a hell of a lot better than Boba Fett or Kenobi in terms of production value.
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Aug 1, 2022 13:57
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drunkill posted:This looks like it is well made, bigger scope, big sets and just comparing trailers looks a hell of a lot better than Boba Fett or Kenobi in terms of production value. Oh yeah. This was shooting back when Mando season 1 came out, I was wondering why this was taking so long, but looking at the trailers I can see why they were able to shoot and release season 2 of Mando, Boba and Obi-Wan in this time. This looks expensive as gently caress.
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Aug 1, 2022 14:15
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Trailer looks great and high budget as gently caress compared to the volume. The volume is great, it makes live action Star Wars on TV a regular feature. But this kind of project really pops in comparison and looks like a full on theatrical prequel to Rogue One.
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Aug 1, 2022 14:28
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Bogus Adventure posted:Something always irked me about Rey and Daisy Ridley, and I finally realized why after watching Deep Blue Sea. She looks like Saffron Burrows. Chris Roberts destroying his own franchise with that movie has always been insane to me. I remember leaving the theater, thinking, "What rear end in a top hat ruined poor Chris Roberts' Wing Commander? Oh, it was Chris Roberts. Well, poo poo."
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Aug 1, 2022 14:30
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 That's just straight up an AK. They didn't even try to make it look sci-fi or anything.
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Aug 1, 2022 14:46
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Darth TNT posted:I was pretty meh so far. But this trailer looks very cool. Is that a woman as a Grand Admiral in the white suit? I hope so. Maybe, but white suits don't have to mean Grand Admiral. Krennic wore one, as did Yularen (this dude at the Death Star conference room scene). She's probably with ISB. I'm not gonna pretend I can read the rank thingies on the Imperial uniforms, but her's seems too small to be a Grand Admiral. thrawn527 fucked around with this message at 14:54 on Aug 1, 2022 |
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Aug 1, 2022 14:51
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Bogus Adventure posted:Remember when the First Order blew up a planet that looked an awful lot like Coruscant from the ground, everyone was like "They loving blew up Coruscant?!?" and then LucasFilm came out and said that wasn't Coruscant but some no-name planet called Hosnian Prime. Also remember how Finn was able to see the destruction of a core world from the surface of Takodana, located in the Mid Rim? The funny thing in all this is that they had no qualms about blowing up Ilum, but Coruscant was going too far. SuperMechagodzilla posted:You don't need supplementary materials to understand the plot of the ST. If anything, it badly confuses the matter, since Disney is using the comics as a source of continual flagrant retcons.
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Aug 1, 2022 15:48
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Watched the Andor trailer, it just looks like more of the same from Obi-Wan; pointless fan service with zero consequences or reasons to care because all it does is reference future events that we already know the outcome of. This looks just as terrible as Obi-Wan was, and that was among some of the worse of Star Wars we've ever gotten.
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Aug 1, 2022 16:32
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MeinPanzer posted:
I’m sure it’s gonna be a slug thrower, but when something that is probably the best it stands that multiple civilizations could create the same weapon. See the bow and arrow for example. But yeah, kinda weird they chose to go with an exact AK in freaking Star Wars.
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Aug 1, 2022 16:37
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Bogus Adventure posted:Remember when the First Order blew up a planet that looked an awful lot like Coruscant from the ground, everyone was like "They loving blew up Coruscant?!?" and then LucasFilm came out and said that wasn't Coruscant but some no-name planet called Hosnian Prime. Also remember how Finn was able to see the destruction of a core world from the surface of Takodana, located in the Mid Rim? That was the first red flag of where Star Wars was going, we had no idea that opening weekend just how bad things were going to get.
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Aug 1, 2022 16:45
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Anita Dickinme posted:I’m sure it’s gonna be a slug thrower, but when something that is probably the best it stands that multiple civilizations could create the same weapon. See the bow and arrow for example. The leader of the bad guys in the mandalorian episode where they're protecting the town from pirates carries a little lever action carbine like the prop guy accidentally went to the Wild West storage closet instead of the Star Wars storage closet.
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Aug 1, 2022 17:03
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Anita Dickinme posted:But yeah, kinda weird they chose to go with an exact AK in freaking Star Wars. Just want to hammer it home through visual language that those guys are insurgents, freedom fighters, revolutionaries, etc.
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Aug 1, 2022 17:07
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