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Jazerus posted:bi people aren't always "evenly" bi, having a general preference but being flexible is pretty common The part that felt off to me is that the narration had distinct straight male author energy. The character being interested in men in theory but rarely encountering men they’re actually attracted to is totally fine and the sort of thing that really should show up more often. The narration being like that regardless of the current viewpoint character makes it come off as the author’s preference rather than the character’s, though. It’s ultimately minor in terms of problems with queer rep IMO.
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Aug 13, 2022 16:49
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Hungry posted:I've never gotten a single homophobic comment on Katalepsis, either on Royal Road or elsewhere. That doesn't actually surprise me, because the story clearly advertises itself as lesbian fiction from the word go, and significant portion of the first chapter is about the protagonist crushing on a butch girl. Anyone who starts reading instantly knows what they're in for. I suspect this would be very different if I wrote about gay men. I still get a handful of lovely comments from time to time, but they're from the people with litRPG brainworms complaining the characters aren't 'logical' enough about when to commit violence, or an even smaller number of comments complaining there's too many women and not enough men in the story. RR comments on Katalepsis are always amusing because the trans themes seem to completely go over their head. I guess it’s good though that people who don’t get it can still enjoy the story and not be assholes when the story makes it clear that they missed something.
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Aug 13, 2022 16:56
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DACK FAYDEN posted:lmao at this review Ok, after reading what happened with The Nameless Mage I have to withdraw every comment I ever made about authors prolifically writing lesbians while avoiding the faintest whisper of gay men. They're (sadly) entirely justified in avoiding the latter over fear of harassment and review bombing.
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Aug 13, 2022 17:12
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Rob Filter posted:RR's continued justification for their removal of LGBT+ tags is that the tags "bring in porn". Simultaneously, the site hosts a bunch of heterosexual porn. Yeah, this is why I can't give the owners of RR any benefit of the doubt, it's just ridiculous. Plorkyeran posted:RR comments on Katalepsis are always amusing because the trans themes seem to completely go over their head. I guess it’s good though that people who don’t get it can still enjoy the story and not be assholes when the story makes it clear that they missed something. It's extra amusing to me because the 'core' audience on the discord server is heavily made of up trans women. Probably at least 60%, maybe higher. So I have one audience who are really on board for the trans themes and pick up on absolutely everything, and then the RR audience who are enjoying the story for a variety of reasons but missing one of the main things that has been going on this whole time. It's making me want to try something cheeky with this upcoming other story I'm going to be writing, but I don't know how far to push that.
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Aug 13, 2022 17:48
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nrook posted:I’ve heard bad things about RoyalRoad’s ownership itself from various chatter, too, especially around its treatment of stories with queer characters in them. There was a big write-up on the HobbyDrama subreddit a few months back. I had fun watching all this go down, and I'm also in a small group with Nixia, the author in question. I'm not going to quote from a private chat group, but basically: While *technically* true, the writeup puts RoyalRoad in the *worst* possible light. I could write up the exact same events, phrased differently, and nobody would read it because it'd be a big nothing burger. It really feels like the author was aiming to stir up poo poo and get clicks, rather than actually shed light on hobby drama. Nobody blinked at the MC of BTDEM being bi. I've gotten basically no comments on it. I did get comments that they didn't like that she was dating a guy, because... gasp, she's bi, but IMO that's more on the readers than the owners. And people keep saying "The owners" like they're a shady bunch. I work with them a bunch. There's exactly two owners - Wing and Kana. Kana keeps himself away from the community aspects, although he's readily accessible to authors and some readers. However, he's just in charge of the technical aspects. Keeping the site up and running, tweaking algorithms, implementing suggestions, etc. Wing handles *all* the community aspects. I've asked her about the LGBT thing, and I remember her being frustrated over it, but not all the reasoning involved. I do know they've spent more than a little amount of time thinking about the issue, and they're not going "lol nah who cares" or anything.
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Aug 13, 2022 20:43
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I have the feeling that the amount of people angry at gay characters in web serials is a very small but very loud group. As is usual for stuff like this.
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Aug 13, 2022 20:53
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I appreciated Katalepsis making it explicit that Lozzie and Jan are trans. Before then, I wasn't actually sure if they were, or were just being a good ally. It's also nice that not even the vilest of villains are misgendering them either.
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Aug 13, 2022 20:56
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Selkie Myth posted:Nobody blinked at the MC of BTDEM being bi. I've gotten basically no comments on it. I did get comments that they didn't like that she was dating a guy, because... gasp, she's bi, but IMO that's more on the readers than the owners. As has been noted, I think the community sees a huge difference between bi/lesbian female protagonists and bi/gay male protagonists. I see tons of the former but very few of the latter, and I suspect the reaction in the comments each would get is enormously different. Bremen fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Aug 13, 2022 |
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Aug 13, 2022 21:28
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The most common thing I see is posts complaining that the author has "deceitfully sprung a gay romance on them with no warning", in stories where two men have been flirting constantly since chapter one.
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Aug 13, 2022 22:22
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Honestly, I know I bring up this story way too much, but Ar'Kendrithyst has a few gay sex scenes and I never saw anyone complain about them. Also there is a semi-funny bit where Jane absolutely hates any women that Erick is interested in because she hates her mom, and is always encouraging him to go out with men.
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Aug 13, 2022 22:50
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Peachfart posted:Honestly, I know I bring up this story way too much, but Ar'Kendrithyst has a few gay sex scenes and I never saw anyone complain about them. Also there is a semi-funny bit where Jane absolutely hates any women that Erick is interested in because she hates her mom, and is always encouraging him to go out with men. Ah. I hadn't read Ar'Kendrithyst but it's on my list, good to hear the comment section might not be quite as unpleasant as I figured it would be.
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Aug 14, 2022 01:38
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Bremen posted:Ah. I hadn't read Ar'Kendrithyst but it's on my list, good to hear the comment section might not be quite as unpleasant as I figured it would be. I feel like at some point there is audience self-selection going on. Early on the comments seem to hate on Erick's pacifist tendencies, but then switch toward hating his rather more militant daughter.
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Aug 14, 2022 01:42
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I think the very first comment I got on RR was someone who was really upset that Fisher was gay. But I think that was also the only comment along those lines I ever got.
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Aug 14, 2022 01:53
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Ar'Kendrythist is a slow and emotional story that's like 20% magic and combat and 80% politics or quiet moments with your friends. i feel like the people who'd be into that wouldn't give a poo poo about Erick so they don't even get far enough in to hit The Dreaded Bi Wall. i keep hoping someone will freak out in the part where Erick talks about Earth's political systems and describes it as a society where almost everyone is a slave by Veirdic standards. That seems like it would piss way more people off than the bi thing. But it's like 200 chapters in.
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Aug 14, 2022 04:21
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So I had been reading the Primal Hunter, mostly because it is okayish and contains a lot of words. I just dropped it because of a character meeting their family, who were definitely a bunch of evil assholes, but then the story describes in detail how they torture and murder each of the family members who are begging for mercy in exhaustive detail. It made me want to barf so I dropped the story. Maybe it is just me being sensitive but just a bit of a warning.
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Aug 14, 2022 05:36
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Patreon Ar'Kendrythist: I love this latest chapter. It rules that Al and Quintalap are coming back into the story immediately after the chapter about how everyone is horny and/or pining for romance. These feel like the two characters Erick was most in to, besides maybe the rune carving genius. Can't wait to see how disastrous these not-Orcol boys' baggage will be.
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Aug 14, 2022 06:18
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OVDT Patreon: oh my god lmfao. finally the campy, ridiculous setting is coming home to roost.
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Aug 14, 2022 06:49
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OddObserver posted:I feel like at some point there is audience self-selection going on. Early on the comments seem to hate on Erick's pacifist tendencies, but then switch toward hating his rather more militant daughter. ...but it's a completely realistic failing and not a failure of the narrative to have a character that just believes a thing that is frustrating to the reader.
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Aug 14, 2022 14:55
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Peachfart posted:So I had been reading the Primal Hunter, mostly because it is okayish and contains a lot of words. I just dropped it because of a character meeting their family, who were definitely a bunch of evil assholes, but then the story describes in detail how they torture and murder each of the family members who are begging for mercy in exhaustive detail. Speaking of okayish, that's a great description of All the Skills - A Deckbuilding LitRPG. It's only 28 chapters so it hasn't progressed much, but it hasn't done anything not-okay yet. Ignore the deckbuilding part (spells come from cards, but everyone has full access to all their cards at all times, so not really a deckbuilder). If you think this is an underwhelming recommendation, than I have accurately conveyed my lukewarm feelings about it.
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Aug 14, 2022 15:35
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Peachfart posted:Okay, my favorite one of these was thread favorite Prac Guide, which had a 'bisexual' protagonist that strangely only wanted to sleep with women for most of the story. She finally had one male relationship, which was more of a one night stand.(unless I forgot something) Yeah, despite PracGuide unquestionably being my favorite web serial, it's very conspicuous that the author wasn't sure how to write the protagonist having a male partner. She would occasionally mentally comment on men being hot, but only ever had serious relationships with women. Plorkyeran posted:The part that felt off to me is that the narration had distinct straight male author energy. The character being interested in men in theory but rarely encountering men they’re actually attracted to is totally fine and the sort of thing that really should show up more often. The narration being like that regardless of the current viewpoint character makes it come off as the author’s preference rather than the character’s, though. She actually encounters men she finds attractive pretty frequently. It's just that she (almost) never pursues them. Catherine is pretty universal in her wandering eyes (to the point where there's a recurring joke about it being common knowledge even though she thinks she's being subtle about it), but the "straight male author" part becomes apparent with the actual "serious love interests." Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Aug 14, 2022 |
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Aug 14, 2022 22:20
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Elfface posted:I appreciated Katalepsis making it explicit that Lozzie and Jan are trans. Before then, I wasn't actually sure if they were, or were just being a good ally. I foolishly assumed that readers would pick up on all the hints about Lozzie, like the trans flag poncho and the conversation about the Outsider beneath the castle 'fixing' her body, but after this came up again and again with readers - some of them trans women - I finally realised I had to make it on-screen explicit in the dialogue, or there would forever be questions, even in the light of the more abstract trans themes in other parts of the story. Glad I did! As for misgendering, well, I've repeated this joke half a dozen times by now: Alexander Lilburne was an abusive megalomaniac, responsible for the deaths of dozens of vulnerable people, and he sold out every single one of his followers to a fate worse than death, even his lover - but even he wouldn't misgender his own sister. Seriously though, I just didn't want to write about that aspect in this kind of story. Which has led to that rather amusing conclusion.
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Aug 15, 2022 00:05
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I've started reading The Newt & Demon. https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/55927/the-newt-and-demon It's only 24 chapters long so far. Updates every ~3 days. Ignore the blurb and chapter 1. The sun exploded and the main character transmigrated to a fantasy world. The story is about an alchemist doing alchemist things in a small village. In the style of Beware of Chicken. A slow and chill story.
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Aug 15, 2022 05:52
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RBA-Wintrow posted:I've started reading The Newt & Demon. This is really good
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Aug 15, 2022 09:07
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RBA-Wintrow posted:I've started reading The Newt & Demon. Honestly, even chapter 1 I found kinda chill for the poo poo that happened in it. Now going to read chapter 2 and onward.
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Aug 15, 2022 13:45
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RBA-Wintrow posted:I've started reading The Newt & Demon. I've noticed that a lot of RR stories are better if you skip the first few chapters  It's weird how many people insist on writing something wildly different from the rest of the story as the first thing a new reader sees.
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Aug 15, 2022 15:47
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Prologues are a plague.
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Aug 15, 2022 16:31
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Isekais have this problem where you usually already know it's an isekai going in so you know the first chapter or two is just setting up the protagonist before getting truck kun-ed. I usually hate those chapters, just trying to cram in as much character and life exposition as possible to establish the background and personality before hurling then into xianxialand. I have many complaints about The Wandering Inn, but starting it with Erin already having gotten isekai'd and past the dragon, just muttering to herself as she wanders around, was a fantastic idea. Similarly, Worth the Candle starting with Joon just getting shoved off a plane was great, and they could go back and reference his earth life later anyway (which they did, many, many times).
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Aug 15, 2022 16:37
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I just don’t read prologues any more. I don’t think I’ve ever been confused by a story due to this.
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Aug 15, 2022 18:47
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Cicero posted:Isekais have this problem where you usually already know it's an isekai going in so you know the first chapter or two is just setting up the protagonist before getting truck kun-ed. I usually hate those chapters, just trying to cram in as much character and life exposition as possible to establish the background and personality before hurling then into xianxialand. and THEY ALMOST NEVER MATTER. It's why I started BTDEM in the divine realm, the god being like "You died. Reincarnation time, let's go!"
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Aug 15, 2022 19:30
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Eh, the real world sections are mostly there due to cargo-culting from older isekai stuff. Except the reason it was in them was because almost all of them ended up with the characters eventually returning to the real world as their ending, having grown and changed by their experiences. Modern isekai mostly seems to have completely gone all in on 'you're here forever!' so the pre-isekai part is vestigal and usually detrimental to the story being told. Because almost every isekai protag is a black hole who has negative emotional attachment to their previous life outside of using it to wow the locals with their amazing invention of ice cream or whatever. Zore fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Aug 15, 2022 |
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Aug 15, 2022 19:52
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Selkie Myth posted:and THEY ALMOST NEVER MATTER.
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Aug 15, 2022 19:57
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I just skip till I see the first stat box. I know what I want and I’m not afraid to take it, goddamnit
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Aug 15, 2022 20:02
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Cicero posted:Isekais have this problem where you usually already know it's an isekai going in so you know the first chapter or two is just setting up the protagonist before getting truck kun-ed. I usually hate those chapters, just trying to cram in as much character and life exposition as possible to establish the background and personality before hurling then into xianxialand. Did she edit Vol 1 or something, because it totally did originally open with that. But it was insanely short, like maybe 300 words before she's at the original abandoned human slum outside Liscor.
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Aug 15, 2022 21:32
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I'm looking at the first two chapters of it now and I don't see any earth life, but I had heard Pirateaba was editing volume 1 so yeah I dunno if it's new or not. It's possible that I forgot that there was an airport scene where she got isekai'd, but I'm pretty confident there wasn't the typical "here's enough compressed slice of life to tell you who the protagonist is" shtick.
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Aug 15, 2022 21:41
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Oh, yeah, it didn't have that. Iirc she was walking into the bathroom and then wasn't and that's all the prequel filler bullshit we get. The other half of Isekai filler where we all know the premise but still have to endure some woah! Where am I? Crazy! type stuff still is though
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Aug 15, 2022 22:04
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In TWI Erin disappears on her way to/from the bathroom in the middle of the night. It is why she is one of the few Earthers that is missing a phone.
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Aug 15, 2022 22:04
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I started reading when it was in volume 2 and there was no such scene that I can recall. I think most isekai these days--at least the ones that make it to anime and were written in the last five years or so--all start in the fantasy world or have just a few seconds of earth stuff; in my experience it's usually Korean manhwa and a lot of Royal Road stuff that like to include prolonged earth intros.
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Aug 15, 2022 22:09
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Larry Parrish posted:The other half of Isekai filler where we all know the premise but still have to endure some woah! Where am I? Crazy! type stuff still is though Like it's annoying, sure, but on the other hand an Earthperson blandly accepting magic and centaurfolk would come across as strange.
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Aug 15, 2022 23:13
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"He ... went into the garden stone to get dry. They had a stack of towels there, plenty of water to get clean of blood and dirt, and what functioned as a makeshift bathroom, if needed, which he’d built himself. Normally for that kind of thing though, you’d just go in the dungeon itself." I still love the way TUTBAD dungeoneering protocol is to take a poo poo on the way out, because the dungeon instance resets anyway.
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Aug 16, 2022 21:34
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RBA-Wintrow posted:I've started reading The Newt & Demon. I'm a dozen chapters in, the entire book so far is a list of crafting recipes and a bunch of paper thin characters. Spoilers I suppose: buddy not-marries an axololtl/cat person after meeting them for like three minutes, thought I was reading another lesbian trope story lol
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Aug 16, 2022 22:03
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