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MechanicalTomPetty posted:I know we're all marking out for our boy Buggy right now but I'm kinda shocked Crocodile has lasted for as long as he has. From lower-mid-tier Shounen Boss Fight from over a decade ago to the man behind one of the Yonko - that's one hell of a comeback. Oda has said that he regrets introducing Crocodile as early as he did for power consistency reasons, especially since we saw in Marineford that he's no slouch.
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Aug 28, 2022 22:35
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I mean, to be fair, Crocodile was like originally intended to be near-final boss, right?
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Aug 28, 2022 22:36
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power levels are bullshit etc. Croc may have been introduced early but he was a very big badass and I don't think it requires much of a leap to to think he is still a very big badass now.
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Aug 28, 2022 22:40
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SyntheticPolygon posted:Croc was def not a lower mid-tier boss fight. Look I don't make the rules but paragraph 8, section 9, subsection 35 of the 25th chapter of the Official Shounen Rulebook clearly states that if you go down less than 300 chapters into a 1000 chapter long manga that you are on the lower end of the middle of the end boss spectrum and furthermore...  Waffleman_ posted:I mean, to be fair, Crocodile was like originally intended to be near-final boss, right? That's the story I heard, IIRC Alabasta was supposed to be roughly where Wano is now in the plot. Though I should mention that I've always only heard of this though second-hand accounts and I have no idea where this was originally stated so it could very well be bullshit. edit: SyntheticPolygon posted:power levels are bullshit etc.
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Aug 28, 2022 22:43
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Was it confirmed that he didn’t know Haki before? Can’t remember if he ever just punched Luffy and it having no effect, he seemed very stab happy from the start
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Aug 28, 2022 22:43
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I can deffo buy in on Croc letting himself go for a few years and basically giving up ambition of ever being on the level of Kaido. Both those things together direly weaken him until he got his groove back at Impel Down, and for the past two years he's been working himself up to even stronger than before Kaido whopped his rear end. This also cements in my head that if Robin had simply told Croc that Pluton was in Wano, he would've crumbled and given himself up on the spot.
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Aug 28, 2022 22:44
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MorningMoon posted:I can deffo buy in on Croc letting himself go for a few years and basically giving up ambition of ever being on the level of Kaido. Both those things together direly weaken him until he got his groove back at Impel Down, and for the past two years he's been working himself up to even stronger than before Kaido whopped his rear end. Croc got whipped by Whitebeard, Moria was Kaido. Not to disparage your point though, I'd have loved to have seen the Enelface he would have made if Robin just straight up told him where it was.
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Aug 28, 2022 22:46
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Eiba posted:No one really guessed that Robin and Robin alone would be getting such a proportionally huge change in her bounty. Stressing once again that Chopper's bounty rose 10fold!
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Aug 28, 2022 23:07
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https://twitter.com/JWNTjwnt/status/1563970207021862912?s=20&t=N60qriWbKS7CML7JYEi77g
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Aug 28, 2022 23:26
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Julias posted:Oda has said that he regrets introducing Crocodile as early as he did for power consistency reasons, especially since we saw in Marineford that he's no slouch. Doflamingo did completely dunk on him there though, and could have easily killed him
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Aug 28, 2022 23:30
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My reasoning for Crocodile being so much stronger in the present is after getting his rear end kicked by Whitebeard he gave up on becoming individually strong enough satisfy his ambition and instead decided to obtain an ancient weapon by starting an organized crime syndicate while coasting on his ability. But this time his fairly large syndicate was dismantled by a tiny pirate crew helping a single princess and he ended up losing everything then being thrown in Impel Down. Both out of other options and actually inspired/reformed by the nature of his second defeat he resumed putting in the effort to become stronger himself instead of looking for an easy way out. Plus his motivation was likely further reinforced after the events of Impel Down. Also Crocodile knew about the ancient weapons which means he likely knows more about history than most people (except for perhaps Robin or Kozuki Sukiyaki) which might also explain why he went out of his way to screw over the government during the events of the Summit War and why he remains so much more motivated now. Basically Whitebeard kicked him down, then Luffy beat him up (both literally and figuratively).
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Aug 28, 2022 23:33
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it makes sense hed be out of practice by the time luffy gets to him honestly. he was mostly a shadowy manipulator in baroque works, all his plan required him to do was occasionally rough up some random desert bandits. plus if whitebeard was the guy who took his hand he just might not have been used to fighting with only one hand. his hook hand cant do any of the sand manipulation im pretty sure, so hed have to be conscious of that when using his powers, and if he didnt have any real challenges to practice that on, itd make sense hed be off his game.
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Aug 28, 2022 23:46
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croc’s marineford showing will always be the wonkiest power scaling in the entire manga
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Aug 29, 2022 00:36
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Julias posted:Oda has said that he regrets introducing Crocodile as early as he did for power consistency reasons, especially since we saw in Marineford that he's no slouch. I've often heard this but also never seen a source.
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Aug 29, 2022 00:38
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Honestly you can kinda at least see it with how Moria was handled, like yeah Luffy beats up the bad man in both cases but with Moria it never doesn’t feel like he would have defeated pre-skip Luffy in a straightforward slugfest with Base Luffy and not Nightmare Luffy vs Mecha Oars before Moria pulled a Vegeta and got too salty to fight with a level head with Shadows Asgard.
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Aug 29, 2022 00:45
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Last Celebration posted:Honestly you can kinda at least see it with how Moria was handled, like yeah Luffy beats up the bad man in both cases but with Moria it never doesn’t feel like he would have defeated pre-skip Luffy in a straightforward slugfest with Base Luffy and not Nightmare Luffy vs Mecha Oars before Moria pulled a Vegeta and got too salty to fight with a level head with Shadows Asgard. But Luffy has his Gears when he fought Moria. If Luffy had Gear 2nd when he fought Crocodile, he could have ended things much more quickly.
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Aug 29, 2022 01:31
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Croc only lost to Luffy because he has about the only Logia with a hard counter. On top of that there is a narrative under current of him being out of practice and lazily having fallen into the rookie complacency of Logias. Getting beat up by Luffy shook the accumulated rust off of him. Even then, Crocodile didn't really outclass Luffy too much at Marineford. Then in the ensuing time skip he probably went on a Rocky III training montage to get back in top condition.
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Aug 29, 2022 01:34
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Crocodile got buff in Impel Down having to fight without his Logia then the time skip happened. Anyone can get strong over a time skip. Also he beat Luffy pretty handily a couple of times. It's like how Luffy beat Enel -- he was punching way above his weight class anyhow.
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Aug 29, 2022 01:38
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Croc also nearly killed Luffy twice.
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Aug 29, 2022 01:38
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Mraagvpeine posted:But Luffy has his Gears when he fought Moria. If Luffy had Gear 2nd when he fought Crocodile, he could have ended things much more quickly. I bet even with Gear 2 Croc woulda handled Luffy those first 2 fights and then fallen in the 3rd.
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Aug 29, 2022 01:39
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Luffy got a 10x strength multiplier from working out in prison for a week and learning how to punch better, Crocodile can do the same
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Aug 29, 2022 01:45
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SyntheticPolygon posted:I bet even with Gear 2 Croc woulda handled Luffy those first 2 fights and then fallen in the 3rd. Yeah, something to keep in mind is that Croc was a pre-timeskip Logia and were were still a long way off from meeting anyone else who even knew what Haki was. These days though I imagine Luffy wouldn't have much trouble slugging him head-on.
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Aug 29, 2022 01:46
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https://twitter.com/luffysmayie/status/1563763544381763584
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Aug 29, 2022 01:49
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hatty posted:Luffy got a 10x strength multiplier from working out in prison for a week and learning how to punch better, Crocodile can do the same Also Luffy had a limiter cuff on making him weaker, so with shonen anime logic it was also a power boost.
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Aug 29, 2022 02:03
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Lord_Magmar posted:Croc also nearly killed Luffy twice. Yeah, if Robin hadn't helped him out he would have been super dead. I think it's just Crocodile, Magellan, Akainu, and Kaido who "killed" Luffy. Everyone else only beat the gently caress out of the guy.
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Aug 29, 2022 02:06
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Gruckles posted:I think that twitter person is just lying. The crappy photo they attached is from SBS 96 when Oda was asked to draw a personification of Brook's sword, and their account was created just to make that tweet. That's all it takes to get spread through gaming news, maybe they just assume the same about anime news
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Aug 29, 2022 02:07
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Bleck posted:I've often heard this but also never seen a source. It came up in the SBS, here's the panel: 
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Aug 29, 2022 02:32
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hatty posted:Was it confirmed that he didn’t know Haki before? Can’t remember if he ever just punched Luffy and it having no effect, he seemed very stab happy from the start He’s confirmed to have Haki, and there is no inconsistency cause he never hit Luffy with something that would normally not be capable of hurting him.
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Aug 29, 2022 03:55
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RatHat posted:Doflamingo did completely dunk on him there though, and could have easily killed him Huh no Crocodile fought Doflamingo off twice.
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Aug 29, 2022 03:56
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The rest of the world didn't stay stagnant as the Strawhats powered up over the course of 2 years, even if Croc (or Mr. 1 or whoever else) was weaker back then there's no reason to believe he hasn't gotten much stronger since
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Aug 29, 2022 04:05
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MonsterEnvy posted:He’s confirmed to have Haki, and there is no inconsistency cause he never hit Luffy with something that would normally not be capable of hurting him. I don't think Crocodile did have Haki in Arabasta, though. Even pre-timeskip, there are visual cues when Haki is being used that just weren't present. I have no problem accepting that he straight up had a mental block that kept him from using Haki after his loss to Whitebeard, and became able to use it again after losing to Luffy and regaining the resolve to become Pirate King with his own power instead of relying on Pluton. Silver2195 fucked around with this message at 04:10 on Aug 29, 2022 |
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Aug 29, 2022 04:08
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Silver2195 posted:I don't think Crocodile did have Haki in Arabasta, though. Even pre-timeskip, there are visual cues when Haki is being used that just weren't present. I have no problem accepting that he straight up had a mental block that kept him from using Haki after his loss to Whitebeard, and became able to use it again after losing to Luffy and regaining the resolve to become Pirate King with his own power instead of relying on Pluton.  It was the mysterious power of Ms. Goldenweek's hypnotism (explicitly not a devil fruit) that reawakened his haki during her cover page arc.
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Aug 29, 2022 04:21
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If I were Crocodile, I simply would have used facts and logic to outwit Whitebeard
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Aug 29, 2022 04:21
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Silver2195 posted:I don't think Crocodile did have Haki in Arabasta, though. Even pre-timeskip, there are visual cues when Haki is being used that just weren't present. I have no problem accepting that he straight up had a mental block that kept him from using Haki after his loss to Whitebeard, and became able to use it again after losing to Luffy and regaining the resolve to become Pirate King with his own power instead of relying on Pluton. What happens if he just had it but didn't use it.
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Aug 29, 2022 04:25
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what if crocodile was just drunk off his rear end the entire alabasta arc, we always saw him drinking wine
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Aug 29, 2022 04:32
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croc's entire plan was based on him never getting into a serious fight again for the rest of his life.
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Aug 29, 2022 04:35
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Heroic Yoshimitsu posted:If I were Crocodile, I simply would have used facts and logic to outwit Whitebeard
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Aug 29, 2022 04:42
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MonsterEnvy posted:Huh no Crocodile fought Doflamingo off twice. Yeah, when Doflamingo cuts off his head he's not even remotely bothered, and Doffy seems to have basically expected that. He's also EXTREMELY keen to want to form an alliance with Croc who shows no interest in it at all. I wonder if they ever had any encounters as Shichibukai given it was apparently near impossible to ever get more than a couple of them to agree to come when called, and our first look at Doflamingo is I believe only after Croc has been sent to Impel Down and stripped of his rank.
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Aug 29, 2022 04:49
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What if Oda hadn't invented Haki when Crocodile was first introduced?
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Aug 29, 2022 05:46
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the lateral nature of power in one piece is one of its best traits imo
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Aug 29, 2022 06:05
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