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Kashuno posted:I do not care if micromancer ends up being the #1 best card in DMU somehow, my brain’s wired to tell me that card is stone unplayable and I will never ever play it. It's nearly always a 4 mana 3/3 that draws you a card, there are a ton of good 1 mana spells in the format
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Sep 5, 2022 04:04
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If only it had flash
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Sep 5, 2022 04:04
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Getting that third win when you're 2-2 is so relieving.
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Sep 5, 2022 04:27
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Kashuno posted:I do not care if micromancer ends up being the #1 best card in DMU somehow, my brain’s wired to tell me that card is stone unplayable and I will never ever play it. it's gas. the existence of kicker means there's a lot of powerful effects that meet the "technically has mv 1" criteria
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Sep 5, 2022 04:41
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Event #10 https://www.17lands.com/draft/d3394975c1eb4d7aae1341c3cf68c099 7-2 Tenth time's the charm. Had a Golgari stew going, then opened Vodalian Mindsinger P3P1. Normally I probably would have passed it without a second thought, but I already had a Tatyova that I wouldn't have minded splashing already, so trying to force a little more than a splash seemed worth it for a 64%WR card. Luckily I immediately got the UB dual land and a Llanowar Loamspeaker (the latter being both fixing and Tatyova synergy) so it seemed like it would work. Voidsinger did clutch out two of the games it was present for. Drag to the Bottom was the real power card here, turning most of the games around. There was at least one of the losses and nearly one of the wins where I may have been a bit too trigger happy with the sweeper and could have picked a spot better probably, but the Writhing Necromasses work so well with it though and helped mitigate any mistakes. I know the problem I have with sweepers a lot is I end up rebuilding slower than the opponent so the slate-clearing is pretty much wasted. But being to immediately rebuild on the same turn makes things a lot easier. Bonerattle and Repossession are also cheap/quick rebuilding options, so this has felt better than when I tried it in NEO or SNC. Necromass also worked really well with Bite Down, since if the opponent had a Territorial Maro or something, a deathtouch Bite Down kills that pretty well. Phyrexian Vivisector / Gibbering Barricade was a real good scry/draw engine, especially with Cult Conscript, Splatter Goblin, Vinewall and the saproling from Weatherseed Treaty that were cheap fodder and could be brought back by Bonerattle and Repo. Also I have slept on Rootwalla, there were a couple games where if the opponent was slow to start I could clock them for 6 on turn 4 which was wild
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Sep 5, 2022 05:19
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Eej posted:Actually 2 colours is cool and good too How was Karn? Every time I see it, it looks both immensely mediocre but also must kill?
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Sep 5, 2022 06:00
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Kashuno posted:I do not care if micromancer ends up being the #1 best card in DMU somehow, my brain’s wired to tell me that card is stone unplayable and I will never ever play it. Lol meanwhile I’m trying to make micromancer + vesuvan diplomacy good in standard, I feel like there has to be a combo deck in there somewhere and I wanna find it
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Sep 5, 2022 07:06
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Lone Goat posted:How was Karn? Every time I see it, it looks both immensely mediocre but also must kill? So he's really bad if you can't defend him but if you have board and play him you can just crank out stones if you have a card to play and if you don't -1 to dig X for gas. Otherwise he's an incredible top deck when you have lands because you can immediately -1 to dig 2-3 for actual answers and they have to deal with him or you'll just keep drawing good stuff while filtering out lands.
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Sep 5, 2022 07:13
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Eej posted:So he's really bad if you can't defend him but if you have board and play him you can just crank out stones if you have a card to play and if you don't -1 to dig X for gas. Otherwise he's an incredible top deck when you have lands because you can immediately -1 to dig 2-3 for actual answers and they have to deal with him or you'll just keep drawing good stuff while filtering out lands. Yeah that makes sense. Whenever I saw Karn on screen it was usually him going + + + every turn and eventually dying so he was just a sloppy lifegain spell, but also you can't really ignore him because if he gets to ultimate it's 3-4 damage every turn off the power stones just blasting your entire board. Don't think I ever saw anyone use the middle ability, but he only gotta played by opponents on the streams I watched. He's not good on a board where you're behind so the steamers I watch weren't willing to pick him highly.
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Sep 5, 2022 07:42
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micromancer rules because there's a ton of great 1 cost spells and if you're blue you probably have a tolarian terror/etc anyway so even getting the lovely -1/0 cantrip is extremely worth it it being a 3/3 just means its fairly relevant on board too.
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Sep 5, 2022 07:52
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studio mujahideen posted:micromancer rules because there's a ton of great 1 cost spells and if you're blue you probably have a tolarian terror/etc anyway so even getting the lovely -1/0 cantrip is extremely worth it
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Sep 5, 2022 07:57
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Drafted 3-4 times and really enjoyed it, even if losing to the Red/White overrun getting copied to deal me 16 damage out of nowhere felt a teensy bit unfair, and also if my opponents didn’t have perfect spot removal for Sheoldred every single time I cast her… OR the removal for Braids every time I cast her… But my opponent who was 100% winning did manage to kill themselves with Sheoldred’s resurrection by not reading the card and that was the highlight of my day. In general I really like this set, maybe the most of any set in the last 5+ years. It looks like the Magic I grew up playing, the cards feel normal & familiar, none of the mechanics are so annoying or weird that I can’t follow them, and the art for this set has been completely next level. Dominaria is a big win for me. Opened ever black mythic/money rare in my drafts so I built Sheoldred Historic Brawl and have gotten to kill my opponents with Peer into the Abyss like 4 times, it’s the sickest most awesome poo poo ever. Set rules!
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Sep 5, 2022 08:08
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Murmur Twin posted:Lol meanwhile I’m trying to make micromancer + vesuvan diplomacy good in standard, I feel like there has to be a combo deck in there somewhere and I wanna find it Mono black magic just posted a vid doing the thing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WkKAgbghqg
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Sep 5, 2022 08:27
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fridge corn posted:Mono black magic just posted a vid doing the thing gently caress yeah, living the dream
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Sep 5, 2022 09:23
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lol that rules
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Sep 5, 2022 09:25
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Long post ahead, hoping to summarise what I've learnt from the first weekend of drafts and 17lands stats. White One of the deepest colours in the format, it has a strong theme within the colour, and it pairs well with the other 4. For most part it's a go-wide deck that does chip damage and eventually builds a board that can alpha strike. Key commons    Honourable mentions/Role players    Captain's Call and Argivian Cavalier both do exactly what White wants to do. Take Up the Shield - A really solid combat trick, akin to Feat of Resistance in M21. Lifelink is really good and swings games, despite Indestructible being less flexible than Protection. Destroy Evil - It appeared surprisingly high in the stats (2nd highest W common) and as it turns out it's quite worthy of the maindeck. Usually finds a target eventually, good against Domain decks' big creatures and is extremely efficient. Citizen's Arrest - Not high on my pick order but still a solid removal spell. Strikes against it are that it isn't an instant or sorcery, the Domain decks prefer Artillery Blast or removal in another colour, and it's vulnerable to Destroy Evil blowouts. WU tends to also have an instant/sorcery theme and a few flyers. WB is a little more attrition based. Black has removal, Phyrexian Rager, and Phyrexian Warhorse. Elas il-Kor and Phyrexian Missionary in particular are strong pulls to this deck. WR wants to be more aggressive but it can also patiently go-wide. Heroic Charge can be kicked in this pair and the 2R haste 3/1 (see below) is a serious threat in the late game. Blue The other contender for deepest colour. The theme is instants/sorceries and it also has great tempo tools (Geyser, Scatter). Key commons    Honourable mentions     Phyrexian Espionage - Divination is just good in this format. The 1B kicker is a nice bonus but it's still good without. Tolarian Terror - Not that difficult to get it to an absurdly low mana cost with Blue's cheap spells. UB usually ends up being a reactive deck in my experience. While it has access to great 1-1 interaction it still needs good top-end and 2-for-1s. There's also cute self-mill deck in this pair that runs the 3/1 mill 3 guy, War-Leech, and the 5/5 deathtoucher. UR is one of the more clearly defined two colour archetypes. It can have really explosive starts. Balmor (UR 1/3 bird) and Electrostatic Infantry pull me into this deck. Black I'm not sure yet how to draft decks with Black as the main colour. It's a great support colour but it needs more depth or uncommons/rares to be the base colour I'm drafting around.      Extinguish the Light - Harder to splash but unconditional removal that sometimes comes with lifegain is really nice. Tribute to Urborg - Usually want to be in Blue/Domain for these, but the 1st copy is probably still good enough. Shadow Prophecy and Urborg Repossession - These two are very good in the Domain decks. People have joked on Twitter that Prophecy is Dig Through Time. Repossession is the best common value engine in Domain, the gain 2 is huge. Red Same as Black, I see it as a support colour really. It wants to be an aggressive colour but a lot of its common creatures are medium. I'm mentioning some of its better creatures here but they each support specific archetypes.      Meria's Outrider - In a Domain deck it's a 4/4 Reach body that domes for 3-5 on ETB, very nasty if you can reanimate it. Ghitu Amplifier - Enables UR's explosive potential, kicker is a nice bonus too. Keldon Strike Team - Great in WR because you can kick it reliably, pretty mediocre otherwise. Green This is the base colour for the multicolour domain decks. Most of them are midrange value piles. I'm doing this colour differently because it doesn't really have any pulls at common. The best way to get into this deck is by picking the Domain uncommons or bombs in other colours before solidifying in Green with the commons. Key uncommons     All of these are great and pull me into the Domain deck. Brawler can give the deck an absurd start. Ancient helps you turn the corner very quickly. The saga has been surprisingly good, 1/1s are real cardboard and the final chapter can push a lot of damage. There are also some gold uncommons that are great in this deck - I really like these three in particular:    Commons      (Tapped) Duals - The pick order depends on the draft meta and my current pool, but in a vacuum I would pick the Gx ones over the G commons. If I know I'm in a colour for sure then half-duals get the nod too. Sunbathing Rootwalla - 2 drop that's still good in the late game. Gaea's Might - At the baseline of +2/+2 it's a fine trick, but with 3+ Domain it's so good of a trick that midrange decks would run it. Floriferous Vinewall - Depending on the number of duals in the deck it can get close to being a source of fixing. 6 cards is a lot to pull from. I would rather have actual duals but these can also do the job. They also synergise with our bonus archetype. B or U are the usually the 2nd base colour for these decks. They both have the card draw/value that G lacks on its own. GRx can be a more beatdown-slanted midrange deck if red is somewhat open. The cheap removal is obviously good and Meria's Outrider is a huge threat to the opponents' life total. GWx goes wide but its gold cards aren't amazing. The real pull into this one is Strength of the Coalition (G +2/+2 trick, kicker 2W put a +1/+1 counter on everything). Defenders It turns out that this deck is actually really good! It's all thanks to this card:  It's one of the best performing cards in the set. Shield-Wall Sentinel being able to fetch it makes it very consistent. I would slam pick a Chaplain if offered one, but I'm hesitant to draft Defenders before then because the other payoffs are merely just okay without the Chaplain. The nongreen decks can splash too, there's synergy overlap across most colours. Off-colour kicker or light Domain can sometimes be worth it but it'll largely depend on how free the duals are in a particular pod. It's only been a few days so I'm going to be wrong about some things, and yeah the meta will shift over time. I feel like these drafts have been the most difficult in recent sets with a lot of potential paths and builds, and there are definitely oddball cards and builds that are strong but we've yet to identify. Hope this helps those diving into the format fresh!
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Sep 5, 2022 10:20
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What the bear doin
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Sep 5, 2022 10:26
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I'm hooting and hollering
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Sep 5, 2022 10:32
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will read that long post in a minute cause it seems helpful but after a handfull of drafts my observations are that you either need 1000 pieces of removal or draft green but preferably both
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Sep 5, 2022 15:23
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I've used the common-rarity black bear exclusively since it was released, and he's been sitting all over the place this set. It's pretty charming.
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Sep 5, 2022 15:59
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wei posted:Destroy Evil - It appeared surprisingly high in the stats (2nd highest W common) and as it turns out it's quite worthy of the maindeck. Usually finds a target eventually, good against Domain decks' big creatures and is extremely efficient. I think Destroy Evil has been one of the biggest deviations from content creator predictions, I know I had been kind of low on it because Lords of Limited and Limited Level-Ups had it really low in their tierlists but when Sam Black looked it up its GIHWR was 62% at the time lol (it's down to 59% now). And looking back on it, yeah it pretty much has a target in every single game Looking over the data I think out of the Cs and UCs the other surprise (or at least I haven't seen it much yet) is that Protect the Negotiators is at 60%? I guess especially in the tokens decks it will probably be an unconditional counterspell for 2 and it goes in the chaplain deck
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Sep 5, 2022 16:15
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In a vacuum, would you rather have Territorial Maro with three land types total or Elfhame Wurm?
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Sep 5, 2022 16:32
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I'd love to get feedback on my deck construction for this premier draft (comments on the draft portion itself are welcome as well). my four drop slot was very stuffed and I almost didn't play the defender package, but at the last moment I decided to put my balls to The Wall and it paid off really well. I wonder if there's any way I could have shaved down my two drop slot so I could fit in the second micromancer and a third one-drop instant. but serra paragon is a monster if allowed to live so I really needed those 2 and 3 drop creatures
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Sep 5, 2022 16:58
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Kull the Conqueror posted:In a vacuum, would you rather have Territorial Maro with three land types total or Elfhame Wurm? IN a vaccuum Maro, because bigger bodies block better, and thus far the format feels slow and grindy and there a lot of x/5s out there, but that's gonna vary a LOT depending on the matchup.
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Sep 5, 2022 17:02
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Murmur Twin posted:Lol meanwhile I’m trying to make micromancer + vesuvan diplomacy good in standard, I feel like there has to be a combo deck in there somewhere and I wanna find it Zur can animate a Duplimancy so that it will make more Duplimancies when targeted, and all of them will make more copies of their own with each cast, snowballing very quickly. Kaya's -2 doubles all token making for one turn, which should be helpful to jumpstart the engine. Founding the Third Path can recycle the 1-mana spells and/or let you play them for free. Can also be animated by Zur for copying action. Micromancer itself can fetch key instants and thin the deck so that you can draw the rest of the combo.
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Sep 5, 2022 17:03
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Sierkovitz with some data analysis: https://twitter.com/Sierkovitz/status/1566781745311236097 Edit: oh and speaking which, there's enough data to make the Limited Grades chart (based on 17L data) useful now: https://www.limitedgrades.com/dmu I think there's some discussion still about how much the raw GIHWR is useful in this format compared to others, like Chaplain is a clear build-around synergy card and that's built into the numbers (thinking emoji) 
CharlieFoxtrot fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Sep 5, 2022 |
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Sep 5, 2022 17:06
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Dang this set has some absolutely brutal brawl commanders. I'm here chilling with go-wide using Baird (likely Jetmir would be near-strictly better but eh, Baird is cheap) and tempo using Balmor, and then there's Jodah and Soul of Windgrace and lol Sould of Windgrace is just plain silly with any fetch land but particularly the lifegaining ones from SNC. ANd Jodah is just plain silly by himself.
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Sep 5, 2022 17:12
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My first draft UW fliers has felt good so far tho 3-2 atm. Both my losses were against RB oops all removal decks lol
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Sep 5, 2022 17:44
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uw still seems underdrafted to me but the tide is slowly turning
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Sep 5, 2022 18:06
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Murmur Twin posted:Lol meanwhile I’m trying to make micromancer + vesuvan diplomacy good in standard, I feel like there has to be a combo deck in there somewhere and I wanna find it  *duplimancy
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Sep 5, 2022 18:07
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I really want to draft the UR aggro spells deck but it just never seems open at my seat. How're folks getting into that deck?
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Sep 5, 2022 19:46
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Kashuno posted:I really want to draft the UR aggro spells deck but it just never seems open at my seat. How're folks getting into that deck? they take the UR cards when it's open
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Sep 5, 2022 19:53
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I've drafted this set twice, and twice a card has disappeared from the pack without me being able to pick it. Free drafts from support are nice, but randomly losing P1P3 and P1P4 (respectively) sucks a lot of the fun out of a draft.
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Sep 5, 2022 19:58
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First spin with boros... seems promising
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Sep 5, 2022 20:05
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Man, I every single draft I've done has gone 1-3. Most of the time one of those loses is against a genuinely good deck, the other two each time will be to me spending 4 turns drawing land when I need any other card in my deck
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Sep 5, 2022 20:42
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Kashuno posted:I really want to draft the UR aggro spells deck but it just never seems open at my seat. How're folks getting into that deck? Get the UR bird dude early and then hoover up every cheap spell you can. Also requires getting a Micromancer or two.
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Sep 5, 2022 20:42
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stuff like electrostatic infantry, lightning bolt, balmor. ive seen some very late bolts/geysers, which is wild but a good sign to go for it imo its never a bad idea to be in blue this set
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Sep 5, 2022 20:53
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This set doesn't feel like it has much by way of generically available flood mitigation (see also the scry lands of strixhaven, blood tokens etc); if you play out your curve and hit a glut of lands around t4, it feels so tricky to get back into the game. I think this might be the first set in a while that cards like impulse and the divination variants could be better than in recent sets. This also makes Uurg of Turg far better that it appears (I will be taking every one of these that come my way if I have a sniff at being able to cast them). Pair it with the mill guy and the raise dead spell and you've got a bit of a stew going.
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Sep 5, 2022 21:08
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:
yeah but Sam Black was talking about when you already have the chaplains. without them the wall plan isnt really worth going for
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Sep 5, 2022 21:32
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Death of Rats posted:This set doesn't feel like it has much by way of generically available flood mitigation (see also the scry lands of strixhaven, blood tokens etc); if you play out your curve and hit a glut of lands around t4, it feels so tricky to get back into the game. Tatyova is probably the best flood insurance at uncommon? Making every land draw into a 3/3 haste flier for 0 feels pretty good and probably why it's so high right now (just saw Jim Davis pass one saying "it's all right") Although I had to remember that the ability doesn't trigger until land number seven, needs some joint exploration/weatherseed treaty support to be the most useful. And yeah if you're out of those colors it's not pretty lol
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Sep 5, 2022 21:38
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