(Thread IKs:
Nenonen)
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What should the presidential powers be in 2020? This poll is closed. |
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| UNLIMITED!!!! URKKI 2.0!!!!!! |
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3 | 23.08% |
| Sauli should be allowed to telecast to our homes whenever he pleases, but that should be the limit. |
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2 | 15.38% |
| He should be limited to writing mildly worded letters to HBL and other provincial newspapers. |
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2 | 15.38% |
| None. More power to Sanna & Katri & Maria & Li & Anna-Maja & Jenni! |
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2 | 15.38% |
| Unlimited, but every decision must be subject to a plebiscite. |
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0 | 0% |
| None, but the president's life must be video streamed 24 /7 for the duration of their term, with no censorship. |
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4 | 30.77% |
| Total: | 13 votes | ||
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So, there's been a healthcare labor shortage for how long, a decade? More? It's clear that there is a discrepancy between the working conditions and the compensation for the work provided. However, the patients' wellbeing card is always thrown on the table to silence the healthcare workers asking for decent pay and guess what, it has not made more people apply for nursing school. It's a farce that we are passing mandatory work legislation as a fix to this situation.
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Sep 20, 2022 00:07
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| # ? Jun 8, 2024 00:39 |
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Trogdos! posted:So, there's been a healthcare labor shortage for how long, a decade? More? It's clear that there is a discrepancy between the working conditions and the compensation for the work provided. However, the patients' wellbeing card is always thrown on the table to silence the healthcare workers asking for decent pay and guess what, it has not made more people apply for nursing school. It's a farce that we are passing mandatory work legislation as a fix to this situation. And the situation is made a lot worse by the staffing cuts requiring the nurses to do the jobs of cleaning staff and secretaries. Nurses should really not be handling all this paperwork in what time they have between their other, more urgent tasks. It's stressful for the nurses and results in a lot of mistakes where information is lost. The nurses playing nice has resulted in things getting worse - Sipilä government sure as hell didn't help. What Tehy is doing is necessary, and unless they play hardball they will be ignored, again.
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Sep 20, 2022 00:50
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So do you think that Helsingin käräjäoikeus was wrong in placing the right to live before the right to strike? I just don't think that the strategy Tehy has chosen is working that well. And they certainly suck in communicating why it is good that people should die for the lack of emergency care.
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Sep 20, 2022 03:52
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Nenonen posted:So do you think that Helsingin käräjäoikeus was wrong in placing the right to live before the right to strike? Yes.
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Sep 20, 2022 03:56
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Patients have been dying due to mistakes of the healthcare system all this time. Overloaded workers and long waiting times make this problem much worse.
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Sep 20, 2022 03:58
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Only one side in this fight is being told that people's right to live trumps their financial considerations and their right to have a sustainable workload and a healthy working environment.
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Sep 20, 2022 04:08
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If they're really so essential we could try paying them more than people working less essential jobs to improve the appeal of the career path.
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Sep 20, 2022 04:15
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endlessmonotony posted:Patients have been dying due to mistakes of the healthcare system all this time. Do you think that it makes any difference for an ICU patient who is needing care NOW because they were hit by a car and had to be operated lest they die NOW? "Ah well, statistically I might have had some % chance of dying because of lack of staffing anyway, so it's alright that I will now die 100% guaranteed!" The courts disagree with you, all the parties including LA disagree with you, all the experts disagree with you, but you keep banging on the same argument. Maybe Tehy has simply chosen the wrong road?
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Sep 20, 2022 04:21
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endlessmonotony posted:If they're really so essential we could try paying them more than people working less essential jobs to improve the appeal of the career path.  But "should nurses be paid more" is not the same question as "should vulnerable people be given intensive care". The answer to both is yes, by the way.
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Sep 20, 2022 04:23
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Nenonen posted:Do you think that it makes any difference for an ICU patient who is needing care NOW because they were hit by a car and had to be operated lest they die NOW? I was on the side of "it didn't need to get to this, we should have fixed the staffing problem a long time ago" all along. If Tehy doesn't play hardball so the situation gets a long-term fix, that is also going to result in unnecessary deaths. But I'm pointing the fingers at the employer side for not fixing compensation and working conditions in the past decade they've had to do anything.
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Sep 20, 2022 04:25
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Nenonen posted:
We have been failing to provide vulnerable people with necessary care for a long time, because the hospitals are overloaded.
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Sep 20, 2022 04:26
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Nenonen posted:So do you think that Helsingin käräjäoikeus was wrong in placing the right to live before the right to strike? Yes.
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Sep 20, 2022 04:27
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Because it will get people killed, especially vulnerable people, with healthcare care lines getting ever longer and the nurses having ever less time to focus on their job (as such missing important details and causing avoidable tragedies), especially with the nosedive in appeal of the career as it becomes clear you will get overworked until you burn out and quit.
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Sep 20, 2022 04:29
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endlessmonotony posted:Because it will get people killed, especially vulnerable people, with healthcare care lines getting ever longer and the nurses having ever less time to focus on their job (as such missing important details and causing avoidable tragedies), especially with the nosedive in appeal of the career as it becomes clear you will get overworked until you burn out and quit. Sigh. "The courts disagree with you, all the parties including LA disagree with you, all the experts disagree with you, but you keep banging on the same argument. Maybe Tehy has simply chosen the wrong road?"
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Sep 20, 2022 04:31
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Nenonen posted:Maybe Tehy has simply chosen the wrong road? No. I've made my reasoning clear.
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Sep 20, 2022 04:32
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They could have ended this strike at any time by spending more money. Instead they chose to make it legal to force people to work. That is very much the wrong move.
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Sep 20, 2022 04:35
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I think you should check just who are in the negoting table. The government is not, because we have given up on the Tripod Tupo.
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Sep 20, 2022 04:42
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If the government can make laws to force the nurses to comply, they can make laws to force the employers to comply.
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Sep 20, 2022 04:42
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Nenonen posted:Sigh. Jos kaikki muut hyppäis kaivoon, hyppäisitkö itse perässä?
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Sep 20, 2022 04:47
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27 uutta viestiä, mitäs täällä on tapah.... *Syvä huokaus*
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Sep 20, 2022 05:24
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Nenonen posted:I think you should check just who are in the negoting table. The government is not, because we have given up on the Tripod Tupo. The government is footing the bill and since the hyvinvointialueet don't have any other means of funding, the tab is open. What happens if you have no health care personnel left to force to work? Make a law saying that a random selection of people must go to nursing school or go to jail?
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Sep 20, 2022 06:48
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Darkest Auer posted:The government is footing the bill and since the hyvinvointialueet don't have any other means of funding, the tab is open. Lower the standards of care and level of training required to work in health care, presumably. In julkiset, obv
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Sep 20, 2022 06:54
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Nurses have been trying to better their lovely working conditions for decades. It hasn't been working. Even with a left wing government. Striking is the last resort for the nurses. By loving with their right to strike, government is essentially saying that there's nothing to be done about bettering their position. Unless you think that this time voting in cocks and pers government, they will suddenly be willing to better health care workers working conditions. By making it Sophie's choice of 'patient security' vs worker's rights where you seemingly support both but in the same breath claim that 'patient security' trumps the other, in actuality it really isn't a Sophie's choice anymore but a clear statement to the nurses that suck it and embrace the lovely working conditions that have as big a chance of changing for the better as they had for the last decades. Never minding the precedent this will set. How long until the usual suspects will start bleating about the right to strike of people like stevedores. After all, they too are critical in running our economy. In the minds of cocks, they are maybe even more critical than health care workers, after all, stevedores are responsible for our exports and thus in cock minds the absolutely most essential thing in our society, making sure that the line goes up... Voted for Social democrats in last few elections but seems like it's back to voting for Left Alliance for me!
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Sep 20, 2022 09:29
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Darkest Auer posted:What happens if you have no health care personnel left to force to work? Make a law saying that a random selection of people must go to nursing school or go to jail? I'm sure Liike Nyt and cocks have some great ideas brewing in their pöhinä factories and think tanks. Like getting that influencer demo with more reality TV series about nurses. And not any of that red-YLE's contemplating reality garbage, go full on big brother and temptation island with that poo poo, with drama and fireworks! Anything other than giving them satisfactory working conditions...
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Sep 20, 2022 09:39
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Make asevelvollisuus apply to women as well, make sivaris be able to serve as harjoittelija-nurses, make the sivari time nursing count as työssäoppiminen and there you have lots of (poorly) trained nurses. Bing bong so simple
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Sep 20, 2022 09:56
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Laajennetaan marjayrittäjien värväyskäytännöt Aasiassa myös terveydenhuollon saralle niin johan alkaa tapahtua.
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Sep 20, 2022 09:58
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I'm thinking robots. Not sure how they'd actually help with health care system, but still thinking about them.
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Sep 20, 2022 09:59
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https://www.talouselama.fi/uutiset/...ef=twitter:6937 Tehy ry ei ole toimittanut Patentti- ja rekisterihallitukselle (PRH) viime vuoden tilinpäätöstä, josta voisi selvitä tuoreemmat ja tarkemmat tiedot sen varallisuudesta. Saatavissa olevien tietojen perusteella Tehy olisi ylittänyt viime vuosina kirjanpitolaissa pienyritykselle asetetut rajat, minkä vuoksi sen olisi pitänyt lain mukaan toimittaa tilinpäätöksensä PRH:lle jo viime kesäkuussa. Tehyn talousjohtaja Tuovi Kuisman mukaan uusimmat tilinpäätöstiedot julkaistaan Tehyn verkkosivuilla myöhemmin. ”Juuri tällä hetkellä ne eivät ole tulossa”, Kuisma kertoi perjantaina Talouselämälle. Kuisma myöntää, että Tehyn tuorein tilinpäätös olisi pitänyt kirjanpitolain mukaan toimittaa PRH:lle jo viime kesäkuussa. ”Sitä ei ole saatu sinne toimitettua, mutta kyllä se sinne toimitetaan”, Kuisma kertoo. Onko tässä kyse siitä, että teiltä on rahat loppu? ”Meiltä ei ole rahat loppu. Siitä ei kannata toimittajan kantaa yhtään murhetta.” Voisitteko sitten kertoa osapuilleen, paljonko teillä on omaa pääomaa? ”En kerro nyt mitään. Me ollaan nyt tällainen päätös tehty. Minä en tässä kohtaa kerro, koska en ensinnäkään ole työpöytäni ääressä enkä pysty kertomaan lukuja.” Mikä tämä päätös on, ja milloin se on tehty? ”Ei minun tarvitse sitäkään kertoa. Minä olen päättänyt näin.” Milloin alatte noudattamaan lakia tässä asiassa? ”Totta kai. Ei minun tarvitse sitäkään tässä sanoa.” Eli et sano, milloin alatte noudattamaan lakia? ”En sano mitään. En kommentoi mitään.” 
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Sep 20, 2022 10:11
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bad_fmr posted:https://www.talouselama.fi/uutiset/...ef=twitter:6937 loving  , mediakoulutus.txt
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Sep 20, 2022 10:15
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why on earth would you not just go "en kommentoi" at the start instead of after you've managed to firmly lodge your foot so far inside of your mouth it sticks out the back of your head if nothing you can say is gonna look good and you know it, just shut the gently caress up immediately edit: did the guy who got interviewed think Talouselämä was going to give a friendly interview for some reason
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Sep 20, 2022 13:20
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Finnpol Megathread: Ei minun tarvitse sitäkään kertoa. Minä olen päättänyt näin.
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Sep 20, 2022 13:26
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Darkest Auer posted:Finnpol Megathread: Ei minun tarvitse sitäkään kertoa. Minä olen päättänyt näin. Please IK make it happen. Can the forums software handle ääkköset in titles?
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Sep 20, 2022 13:37
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Catpain Slack posted:Please IK make it happen. Can the forums software handle ääkköset in titles? I believe previously the answer was "no", sadly. Yet another log on our national cabin of persecution
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Sep 20, 2022 13:40
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Start a QCS thread, the locals would love making GBS threads on non-American letters
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Sep 20, 2022 14:36
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päivää, minä kyllä pidän teistä hyvää huolta, sillä välin kun alipalkatut omahoitajanne eivät enää vaippojanne vaihda, ja joudutte paskomaan tänne foorumeille pahaa mieltänne työläisten vihdoinkin lyödessä nyrkin pöytään. jos työ on niin kriittistä ja vaativaa, että on pakko säätää kirjaimellinen orjalaki, sen sijaan että valtio myöntyisi hoitajien vuosia (kohteliaasti) esittämiin vaatimuksiin työolojen ja palkkojen parannuksista, niin mitä kuviteltuja lopputuloksia tällä dialektisella prosessilla voi olla? varmaa on, että mikäli hoitajien liitot murretaan, niin alan olot tulevat vain kurjistumaan, kun henkilökunta kirjaimellisesti jää lääketieteellisesti todettavalle sairaslomalle, ja pitemmällä näkymällä poistuu alalta, niin mitäs sitte? orjalain väkivaltainen toteuttaminen tulottomien sakottamisella vaikuttaa minusta hieman mahdottomalta yhtälöltäbad_fmr posted:https://www.talouselama.fi/uutiset/...ef=twitter:6937 jos tässä on alkamassa massiivinen lakko konkurssia lupaavien sakkojen uhalla, en kyllä todennäköisesti haluaisi toimittaa PRHlle yhtään mitään papereita. jos ne aikoo sakottaa kumminkin kohta TEHY:n kuoliaaks, niin mitä vitun väliä? tulkoot tuomarin määräyksellä saatana ja viekööt
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Sep 20, 2022 15:02
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Catpain Slack posted:Please IK make it happen. Can the forums software handle ääkköset in titles? I guess we'll have to make do. Loppuu hieman kaksimielisesti mutta se on feature. Nenonen fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Sep 20, 2022 |
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Sep 20, 2022 20:18
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The nurse question boils down to: Is a lifeform allowed to force another lifeform to care for it by threat of violence. Yeah I don't think so. Vas thankfully managed to slip the following in apparently? quote:HS: Lakiesityksen mukaan lakkoileva tai irtisanoutuva hoitaja voitaisiin määrätä töihin sakon uhalla. Hallitus kuitenkin sopi, että uhkasakot poistettaisiin laista kokonaan eikä hoitajille tulisi lainkaan seurauksia työmääräyksen laiminlyönnistä. This would essentially nullify the entire thing. Anna Kontula saves the day? SnowblindFatal fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Sep 20, 2022 |
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Sep 20, 2022 20:52
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vähän sivuten hoitaja-juttuja, järjestelmäpäivitys johon taitaa liittyä klassista suhmurointia: https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-12622935 quote:Useat sosiaali- ja terveysalan ammattilaiset kertovat Ylelle, kuinka Helsingin ja Uudenmaan sairaanhoitopiiri (HUS) sekä Apotti-yhtiö pyrkivät rajoittamaan asiakas- ja potilastietojärjestelmä Apottiin liittyvää kriittistä keskustelua.
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Sep 20, 2022 21:06
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SnowblindFatal posted:Is a lifeform allowed to force another lifeform to care for it by threat of violence. the libertarianism is coming from inside the thread
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Sep 20, 2022 21:24
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the fascism is coming from inside the thread
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Sep 20, 2022 21:25
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