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Ar'Kendrithyst Patreon: I do see a moral issue with basically soul loving people, and forceably changing them to be nicer and have empathy... But the real question is that is it better than murdering people? And I say yes.
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Sep 24, 2022 22:34
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It would only be morally questionable if there was another option, yeah. And like, permanent occupation would be worse than probably either lol.
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Sep 24, 2022 23:20
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Peachfart posted:Ar'Kendrithyst Patreon: I do see a moral issue with basically soul loving people, and forceably changing them to be nicer and have empathy... But the real question is that is it better than murdering people? And I say yes. Mostly agreed. And, as pointed out in this chapter, there are other places in the world about as bad, and the world is watching. The better this goes, the better the next one will go too, especially if it becomes clear to those who will be put on the front lines that you can voluntarily surrender and have Erick give you a better life. The "mostly agreed" is because if that old man is representative of the commoners in the Cities (and from a structural writing perspective, he's seemingly meant to be representative), he's been in such a continual war-of-all-against-all state of privation that he straight up can't remember much of his life beyond immediate needs and grudges. And if the nobles and the people on the battlefield are in the way of helping all the people like that, then getting them out of the way needs to be the priority, even if they wouldn't like the way Erick does it.
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Sep 24, 2022 23:27
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quote:9.17 R this woman has a problem
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Sep 25, 2022 05:34
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A big flaming stink posted:this woman has a problem It just keeps going.
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Sep 25, 2022 15:09
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I started reading Ar'Kendrithyst and am at chapter 31. It's good! Stayed up until late reading last night. One minor thing that I mostly just want some clarification on - am I correct in assuming that the author probably more or less holds the "normie" view that the CIA = "Jack Ryan-esque badasses who fight the Bad Guys"? It's fine if that's the case; I just want to know how this should influence my read of the character and Erick's relationship with her. Erick's attitude seems a little strange given a more realistic understanding of the CIA (since you'd think that as a pacifist he'd be kind of disapproving about his daughter trying to join the CIA), but it makes a lot more sense if "working the CIA" is just used as shorthand for "a highly selective action-packed job for driven people" (instead of the reality where a more typical college CIA intern is going to be some Mormon from Yale).
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Sep 25, 2022 23:32
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Ytlaya posted:I started reading Ar'Kendrithyst and am at chapter 31. It's good! Stayed up until late reading last night. I put Ar'Kendrythist off for a long time because I just kind of assumed this, but (character motivation, not plot spoilers) the first time Erick really says what he thinks about Earth, he says that almost everyone is a slave- and that's not even couched in Veirdic terms, it's how he thinks of it. The reason he helped push Jane into the military and later the CIA is because he knew she simply cannot be someone who doesn't view violence as an acceptable tool, and those are pretty much the only professions in America where you can be that. It violates his personal pacifism, but he's not an ideological pacifist, he just personally doesnt like to use violence, and always seeks a better way. Basically the author thinks the CIA are terrorist murderers but that's probably the best place for an inherently violent person to be, lol
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Sep 25, 2022 23:50
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Wait a minute, Jane was in the military? I thought she went straight from troubled middle schooler, to troubled high schooler, to D&D high schooler, to D&D college kid, and the CIA internship was her first job? I might've missed something, but I remember it sticking out to me as deeply weird because her self-described history of pre-isekai injuries included being burned, drowned, and shot, which aren't things that would happen unless she did a bunch of training and fell into some kind of dedicated unconventional combat role in her mid-late 20s.
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Sep 26, 2022 00:01
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Omi no Kami posted:Wait a minute, Jane was in the military? I thought she went straight from troubled middle schooler, to troubled high schooler, to D&D high schooler, to D&D college kid, and the CIA internship was her first job? I might've missed something, but I remember it sticking out to me as deeply weird because her self-described history of pre-isekai injuries included being burned, drowned, and shot, which aren't things that would happen unless she did a bunch of training and fell into some kind of dedicated unconventional combat role in her mid-late 20s. I might be misremembering but it was mentioned that she enlisted after college iirc. Deranged Blackwater mercenary probably fits her character better though lol
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Sep 26, 2022 00:07
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Yeah, she was on her way to start a career in the CIA. She was not enlisted or anything. And yeah, that piece of characterization is brilliant. What a great story.
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Sep 26, 2022 00:17
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Ytlaya posted:One minor thing that I mostly just want some clarification on - am I correct in assuming that the author probably more or less holds the "normie" view that the CIA = "Jack Ryan-esque badasses who fight the Bad Guys"? Yes. I remember Erik, if not also the author, being disapproving of the CIA in general, but it's been a long time since I read it.
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Sep 26, 2022 00:43
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Funny thing about the Jane stuff is that I actually have a relative who is in the CIA and into playing D&D (one of my mom's cousins, with my mom's side being the Jewish side of my family - my grandma's two brothers' branches of the family basically all ended up in white collar fields, while my grandma's branch of the family didn't because she wasn't encouraged to go to college). edit: Btw, minor prediction at the point I'm at in the story (chapter 31) - I think that Al is the other secret guard/assassin. He's obviously hiding something and has some sort of really involved background that we don't know much about yet. Still think he's a good guy, though. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 02:41 on Sep 26, 2022 |
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Sep 26, 2022 02:39
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Erick is a literal social worker who wants to make everyone's life better, he does not like the CIA. But his daughter is a typical web serial murder machine so she was a perfect fit, and like a good father, he wanted her to be happy.
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Sep 26, 2022 02:50
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How does a pacifist social worker end up raising a CIA murderhobo
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Sep 26, 2022 05:16
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She's just vaguely sociopathic. Like in the normal way where you just don't care about people automatically, not the cartoon villain way.
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Sep 26, 2022 05:23
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I feel like "doesn't care about people much automatically" is something completely separate from "driven to do violence to the extent that you can only be satisfied in a job that involves violence" (which seems like a far more serious issue). Seems like Erick probably should have more strongly discouraged this, though it's actually consistent with what I've seen as his character so far - it seems like he can err on the side of being passive and is more concerned with his own behavior than the "big picture" in a way that can lead to counterproductive or hypocritical actions* (though I just reached a point here he's had some big change of heart about this). So it's pretty easy for me to believe that he'd passively allow his daughter to join the CIA, because the alternative would require significant interpersonal conflict that he'd probably avoid. * like when a bunch of people die during the moments when he's hesitating to use Withering on the city - something he later acknowledges was completely irrational, though in an entirely understandable way edit: The only reason I asked about it in the first place is that I was wondering if it's something I should factor more heavily into my understanding of the characters. It's not really a big deal to me if the author has a less negative view of the CIA**, but it influences how (as the reader) I should be factoring it into my understanding of Jane and Erick as characters. ** It seems like there are generally three common views here: - CIA is good - CIA has done a lot of bad things and is morally ambiguous at best, but generally acts in the nation's interest and is a job where a good individual can still do good things. Similar to the way many people view the police. - CIA is basically no different from organized crime edit2: Right after making this post I get to a Jane PoV chapter lol Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 07:08 on Sep 26, 2022 |
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Sep 26, 2022 06:05
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Ytlaya posted:I feel like "doesn't care about people much automatically" is something completely separate from "driven to do violence to the extent that you can only be satisfied in a job that involves violence" (which seems like a far more serious issue). Seems like Erick probably should have more strongly discouraged this, though it's actually consistent with what I've seen as his character so far - it seems like he can err on the side of being passive and is more concerned with his own behavior than the "big picture" in a way that can lead to counterproductive or hypocritical actions* (though I just reached a point here he's had some big change of heart about this). So it's pretty easy for me to believe that he'd passively allow his daughter to join the CIA, because the alternative would require significant interpersonal conflict that he'd probably avoid. There are a lot of people like Jane, who want to smash heads 'for the greater good'. Hell, you may even be reading an entire genre that caters to that sort of person.(hint: it is the title of this thread) Luckily Jane can do this in Ar'Kendrythist because monsters are real. Heck, MASSIVE SPOILERS DON'T CLICK Melemizargo even recently states that Erick's first Wizardry was(probably) bringing him and Jane to their world, and it wouldn't surprise me if Erick subconsciously did this to keep Jane out of the CIA. Edit: This is the first two paragraphs of the story, so no spoilers. --- Erick lightened his grip on the steering wheel. “All I’m saying is that you can call more often. I missed you at college, and this life you’ve chosen won’t be easy.” A moment passed in silence. Trees whizzed by, but no cars. Theirs was the only vehicle on the highway. “You’re going to be—” “Dad,” Jane stressed. “Come on. We’ve gone over every bit of this already, including the danger. I’m going into the CIA, and that’s that.” She added, half-whispered, “If they’ll have me.” Also this paragraph a short bit down the page: Erick smiled, glancing over to his daughter. She was all grown up. 22, college graduate, ready for the world. She was also bodyguard certified and boot camp trained, though Erick tried not to think too deeply about that, else— --- IMO, I see a dad that loves his kid and wants them to succeed in what they desire to do with their life, but really doesn't want them to go ahead with it. Peachfart fucked around with this message at 07:16 on Sep 26, 2022 |
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Sep 26, 2022 07:03
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it's because Jane isn't like. ultra driven to violence or whatever. she just literally cannot ever not consider it. which if you think about it, that would basically make her a violent psychopath by our standards. especially because she's not an easily understandable type of violent personality, like one of those people that just basically has roid rage constantly. would probably spook me way more if someone was able to just easily consider violence as an actual option and not an emotional reaction or a barely-considered fantasy lol.
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Sep 26, 2022 07:22
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90s Cringe Rock posted:That's the patreon chapter. I'm the public one right now and, well, Rabbiteater and Seraphel are hanging out. Yeah, it's a pretty lovely chapter.
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Sep 26, 2022 07:35
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up to 104 1/2 and I have legitimately nfi how Erick's still considered a pacifist / non combatant lol, sure let me just sweep my hand and wipe out millions of monsters, let me just fight a shade that was empowered specifically to take me down - to a standstill, let me talk, relentlessly about wiping out every single shade and member of the dark, yes I'm a pacifist, why do you ask
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Sep 26, 2022 07:46
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After that first bad fight he kind of extremely rapidly goes, yep, some people just have to die and people need power to fight monsters... But I hate that it's necessary, and that I'm so good at it
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Sep 26, 2022 07:55
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I will spoiler since I don't remember exactly when this is revealed, but I think an interesting wrinkle to Jane's love of violence is that she developed it in part as a response to Erick's pacifism. Erick didn't start being willing to put himself in danger to help make the world better when he got to Veird. He was like that on Earth, and Jane chose violence at a young age because she felt it was necessary to protect him from gang members or whatever. It's so neatly tied up in Ar'Kendrythist's explorations of power. Power and violence can cause more violence, but weakness and vulnerability can also incite violence. It's all a very delicate balancing act. I also love how it's led to Jane's story being one where she's just floundering trying to figure out what do with herself. She's defined herself in relation to Erick, but now he's way way stronger than her.
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Sep 26, 2022 14:27
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I've been thinking about how much Millennial Mage fits a roguelite gameplay loop: Townhub for upgrades -> choose a caravan journey with combat encounters, random encounters, and drops with a monetary reward at the end -> new townhub with access to different upgrades Despite not being explicitly gamelit, it pretty clearly is and is one of the few that would make an interesting game that I would want to play.
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Sep 26, 2022 19:19
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Tom Clancy is Dead posted:I've been thinking about how much Millennial Mage fits a roguelite gameplay loop: I hadn't noticed that, but yeah.
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Sep 26, 2022 20:02
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The above conversation has gotten me to start reading through Ar'Kendrithyst again from the beginning, so thank you
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Sep 26, 2022 23:40
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I like how much of a "slow burn" this is. Normally I'd be annoyed at the way the protagonist is powerful*, but it moves slowly enough and does a good enough job of exploring the ramifications of his actions that it still works well. * and it honestly is pretty weird, given the implication that "planar" people aren't super uncommon and this universe appears to share its basic building blocks with our own (which somewhat implies this is the case everywhere, unless our universe is just coincidentally one of the only ones that also has atoms, etc). You'd think someone else would have also appeared who has the same combination of "rudimentary science knowledge" and "a more 'magical' perspective on magic" that Eric has. Jane is mostly limited by her own "powergaming" outlook (one basically shared by the residents of this world, who have already spent centuries studying this stuff - there probably aren't any ways to "exploit" the Script that people haven't already figured out). I wonder if other planar people will show up later in the story.
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Sep 27, 2022 02:08
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There is in fact an explanation for that, which is massive spoilers.
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Sep 27, 2022 02:24
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BadMedic posted:There is in fact an explanation for that, which is massive spoilers.
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Sep 27, 2022 02:50
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Ar'Kendrythist thinks of everything, seriously. It always gets deeper.
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Sep 27, 2022 02:50
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Cool, I look forward to seeing where things go (and will probably post occasionally along the way)!
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Sep 27, 2022 02:55
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I hope you do! Your posts so far have been really neat for highlighting how certain parts of Ar'Kendrythist fit together.
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Sep 27, 2022 04:10
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I just finished Book 2. Erick's "talent" seems to make more sense now. It seems like the "founding a Particle Magic" stuff wasn't particularly a huge deal on its own (outside of the exalted storm aura stuff). Or rather it was, but not in a way that can't be reasonably countered (and all that stuff will become available to others in a year+ anyways). The bigger deal seems to be this way that he can see "past" the Script and create spells dramatically better than the ones that would normally be bought or created through the Script. Though the stuff he does seems really similar to the way the "Old Wizards" are described, so the various gods' reactions make sense. edit: Erick's rhymes kinda suck rear end tho lol Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 00:00 on Sep 28, 2022 |
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Sep 27, 2022 23:26
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Tom Clancy is Dead posted:I've been thinking about how much Millennial Mage fits a roguelite gameplay loop: I think resembling how an actual game would work sort of disqualifies it from being gamelit. That entire genre is seemingly written by people who have never actually played a video game and are just making things up based on how they think games might work.
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Sep 28, 2022 00:30
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Plorkyeran posted:I think resembling how an actual game would work sort of disqualifies it from being gamelit. That entire genre is seemingly written by people who have never actually played a video game and are just making things up based on how they think games might work. lol. that was kind of my immediate thought too. im kind of horrified by thinking of millennial mage in those terms but whatever.
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Sep 28, 2022 00:33
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I’m coincidentally rereading Ar’Kendrithyst too, and it was funny and surprising to me how many “books” it is actually divided into. I had always thought of it as basically being two books so far: one called Kendrithyst, or City of Shades or something like that, and the second called The Worldly Path.
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Sep 28, 2022 16:13
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lol'd at Eric's summary of Earth history to the Headmaster basically being all-Europe, though that's a pretty realistic response from some random American guy. Around the same point the story also directly addresses the question of other planar people. I'm mixed about the explanation, though it's at least plausible. From what I can tell, the implication is that Eric was lucky to be from a specific point in technological history where the average "first-worlder" is aware of basic scientific advancements, with other people either being from periods before this knowledge, or periods so technologically advanced that the average person has zero understanding of how their society/technology works.
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Sep 29, 2022 01:47
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Big TUTBAD Chapter today (138): Okay, it's now sufficiently clear that Cate is a dragon that maybe it becomes a twist that she's not actually a dragon. Also, as someone on the discord said, lol Ria got Worf'd.
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Sep 30, 2022 00:10
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TUTBAD I love Ria and her thoughts on Alfric and Mizuki "There was a viciousness and violence to Mizuki that Ria liked" "Alfric was somewhat famous within the family for not swearing: he’d been taught, when he was four, that certain words were bad words that you weren’t supposed to say, and he’d never said any of them in front of anyone, going so far as correcting others with a particular sort of insistence. At fifteen they’d explained to him that it was okay — and expected — to let loose a stream of curse words at times, but he hadn’t budged much."
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Sep 30, 2022 00:20
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These Ar'kendrithyst chapters seem to be getting increasingly long! I'm into the early 70s now IIRC. I think all the stuff with Jane and the unicorns was only one chapter, somehow. It's amazing how it still manages to stay engaging, though. The only times in the entire story so far when my attention has wavered have been when he first studies enchanting and when he's making the light slime dungeon. In the most recent chapter he became all fit and limber again thanks to Rozala's Recovery and its pissing me off because I'm 36 (turning 37 in less than a month) and trying to get back into regular weight-lifting and finding it much harder than it was when I was 23.
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Sep 30, 2022 02:00
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Ytlaya posted:These Ar'kendrithyst chapters seem to be getting increasingly long! I'm into the early 70s now IIRC. I think all the stuff with Jane and the unicorns was only one chapter, somehow. Have you tried just being a wizard? Also yeah the new tutbad chapter was good. I liked Ria saying that Cate was arguably stronger when in the actual fight she just got bodied without doing much actual damage.
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Sep 30, 2022 02:54
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