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Back on topic for the thread, I think that more authors using text generation to assist in their writing is gonna be very interesting. Genre fiction is already known for frequently being formulaic, so does that mean autogenerated text can blend in easier? Plenty of content on Kindle Unlimited that already reads like it was half-written by a bot.
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Oct 6, 2022 10:42
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It comes down to whether you think art means something. Lots of people apparently don't.
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Oct 6, 2022 10:44
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Cicero posted:There are murky legalities around AI generated art? Unless they're explicitly copying entire elements of prior work -- not just style, but actual content -- I'm not sure what the legal issue would be. Understandable that artists will be upset if their styles are getting copied by AI, but legally you can't copyright a style. Cicero posted:As for where the art came from that was trained on, that's a good point, so I looked up Stable Diffusion's training data, and wikipedia says Further digging reveals something not so clear cut: https://waxy.org/2022/09/ai-data-laundering-how-academic-and-nonprofit-researchers-shield-tech-companies-from-accountability/ But in addition to the training set issue, there's also the fact that copyright over the cover art is separate to copyright of the cover design. It's not necessarily new territory for book covers, because there's already a lot of well documented examples of multiple books using the same stock image or stock illustration. Even if generally AI art not being copyrightable means it's a free for all for anyone to use the generated images...you'd still run into an issue with the AI art generator platform's terms. In the case of Midjourney's licence terms, it states that you don't have a commercial licence to use stuff generated with Midjourney if you're not on a paid plan. How enforceable is this? Would Midjourney actually come after you for using AI generated art on your self-published book or Royal Road serial if you didn't have a paid account? If they did, and you lawyered up, would they have any legal basis for their claim? Cicero posted:Back on topic for the thread, I think that more authors using text generation to assist in their writing is gonna be very interesting. Genre fiction is already known for frequently being formulaic, so does that mean autogenerated text can blend in easier? Plenty of content on Kindle Unlimited that already reads like it was half-written by a bot. It is already a thing. We've been talking about it over in the CC fiction writing thread and The Verge did an in-depth article on the subject. What's been more interesting to me is how behind the curve books have been. Last year an AI composer finished Beethoven's tenth symphony. Two years before that, a different one finished Schubert's eighth. Around about that time, I went to a public lunch time talk where they did an experiment on the audience: listen to a piece of music and guess whether it was one of Bach's or an AI's. The majority of the crowd—many of who are fans of classical music—could not tell the difference. In 2015, a UK researcher worked on a computer-generated musical. Beyond the Fence by Android Lloyd Webber hit London's West End in 2016. No. No more dancing! posted:In the end I'd be absolutely shocked if any decision against ML stood for long due to the sheer amount of money there is to be made from it by Google and others. That, and the sheer time saving factor from the artist's perspective. Manually developing character concepts, storyboarding, rough drafts, etc might take a human days or weeks but an AI could do it in a matter of minutes. Leng fucked around with this message at 12:44 on Oct 6, 2022 |
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Oct 6, 2022 11:29
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Okay the composer part makes me think heavily of We, I distinctly recall something about generated music and how soothing and perfect it was, and the main character discovering jazz and being purely shocked.
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Oct 6, 2022 11:39
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Leng posted:Even if generally AI art not being copyrightable means it's a free for all for anyone to use the generated images...you'd still run into an issue with the AI art generator platform's terms.
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Oct 6, 2022 11:45
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This article does a good job of laying out the problem with AI art replacing professional artists: https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/09/16/1059598/this-artist-is-dominating-ai-generated-art-and-hes-not-happy-about-it/ It's not just "AI make me a new Picasso" it's "AI make me a new Darrell K. Sweet" and then neither Darrel K Sweet nor Michael Whelan are getting paid. ( since Whelan finishdd the Wheel of Time covers when Sweet couldn't). And then in twenty years we're still all just looking at AI generated Darrel K Sweet esque book covers because nobody is becoming a professional artist any more because it's no longer financially viable to invest years of your life training to paint or draw and develop a personal style when an AI will swoop in and capture whatever you develop. It's a tragedy of the commons / free rider problem. And, yeah, we will probably see it in writing fairly soon. I wonder how long before an AI tells us the conclusion of The Mystery of Edwin Drood. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 13:02 on Oct 6, 2022 |
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Oct 6, 2022 12:59
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Horizon Burning posted:ai art is just one of the many things where stem nerds are trying to bypass the artistic process and, arguably, the entire concept of art as human communication. If this is your main issue with AI you might be happy to learn that this is going to end up putting swathes of stem nerds out of business too. They never quite managed to squash rising tech salaries with remote labor and trade schools for the socially disadvantaged, but code generation tools will very likely do it. The potential savings there are huge compared to a few concept artists.
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Oct 6, 2022 14:08
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it probably won't replace the actually talented any time soon but it will replace the people who spend half their day hacking together stuff from stackexchange. so i change my mind actually full speed ahead on this poo poo
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Oct 6, 2022 14:13
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Larry Parrish posted:it probably won't replace the actually talented any time soon but it will replace the people who spend half their day hacking together stuff from stackexchange. so i change my mind actually full speed ahead on this poo poo
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Oct 6, 2022 14:18
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honestly given how poorly Github Copilot seems to be at generating code appropriate to its unstated constraints I'm skeptical that AI generated text will be able to seamlessly replace authored text in the near future, at least. there's a descriptive element to extended writing that I don't think has been fully captured by generation tools that makes generated responses nonsensical or absurd innately
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Oct 6, 2022 14:29
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Shitstorm Trooper posted:The quoted portion implied a tone and sense of humor I wouldn't care for and reminded me of the reasons I bailed on stuff like Kaiju Preservation Society. Yeah, I don't think you'd much like the first book in the series, since it's (I think entirely) from the perspective of one viewpoint character who talks and thinks like that even as the rest of the cast doesn't... and a big part of why I think the second book is so good is the total reworking of your understanding of the first book based upon the new information and different viewpoints presented. That would make skipping the first book difficult. One quibble with the series I have, and which only niggles because it happens in so much media, is the ubiquity of precocious genius. That is, everyone in their late teens/early 20s already being extremely loving refined in their particular metier. It just takes time to actually acquire all the knowledge, and experience with using that knowledge, to get that danged good. Even characters who are presented as not being prodigies would be considered such in real life. Einstein was 26 when he had his Annus Mirabilis!
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Oct 6, 2022 15:13
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Digital art and design as a professional craft is going to die (lol rip my job) and the industry as a whole will move to managerial/art direction. I do think the ai art “look” is going to get corny really quickly until the technology gets better which uh will probably be like next month I guess. I suppose they will always need artists to feed into the algorithm unless this is the end and we’re just in forever-recursion of mid-2010s concept art until the heat death of the universe. It’s sad as hell but the cat’s out of the bag at this point. No art only Content.
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Oct 6, 2022 15:16
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A question about the content of Nonna: Does Gideon have significant (like, more than a chapter) of screentime? edit: I'm too afraid to go into the Nonna thread atm but I need this one thing spoiled for me please. GoodluckJonathan fucked around with this message at 15:26 on Oct 6, 2022 |
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Oct 6, 2022 15:24
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Someone recently published an illustrated version of Olaf Stapledon’s Star Maker on Amazon - all the images are AI-generated. It felt oddly appropriate, given how things go with memory-reliving technology on the first alien planet the protagonist visits.
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Oct 6, 2022 15:26
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GoodluckJonathan posted:A question about the content of Nonna: Yes.
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Oct 6, 2022 15:27
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I'm in a weird place with the Locked Tomb series because I read the first one and I liked it for what it was but I don't have an urge to read the rest of them. I'm not sure why. I think maybe because the ending to the first book made me sad.
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Oct 6, 2022 15:33
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I'm in a weird place with the Locked Tomb series because I read the first one and I liked it for what it was but I don't have an urge to read the rest of them. I'm not sure why. I think maybe because the ending to the first book made me sad. I felt the same way after reading Gideon, but I’m glad I kept going because Harrow and Nona rewarded me with a far better payoff than expected I can’t wait for Alecto
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Oct 6, 2022 15:43
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I'm in a weird place with the Locked Tomb series because I read the first one and I liked it for what it was but I don't have an urge to read the rest of them. I'm not sure why. I think maybe because the ending to the first book made me sad. Yea there's quite a good payoff at the end of Harrow re: Gideon.
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Oct 6, 2022 16:05
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I'm in a weird place with the Locked Tomb series because I read the first one and I liked it for what it was but I don't have an urge to read the rest of them. I'm not sure why. I think maybe because the ending to the first book made me sad. Yeah dogg, don't worry they're necromancers - nobody is dead forever. Unless they are.
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Oct 6, 2022 16:23
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grassy gnoll posted:If I program a Markov chain to regurgitate randomized samples of cultivation fiction by feeding it an input of all the usual Kindle Unlimited suspects, and it is obvious that paragraphs are taken wholesale from the work of others, and I dump hundreds of thousands of copies of this crap onto KU for pennies and kill the entire market except for my creations, that is clearly ethnically faulty, it is legally suspect at best, and it is a clear net negative for the written word as an art form and a way to make a living. grassy gnoll posted:Also, in the nicest way I can I think to phrase this, "maybe this poorly-tested and ethnically-dubious piece of technology used by corporations to gently caress people is good because it's not explicitly illegal" is one spicy take in this, the science fiction and fantasy thread. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
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Oct 6, 2022 18:27
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Anshu posted:You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. Rather appropriately, I suspect autocorrect is at work.
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Oct 6, 2022 20:15
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Yeah, that's a combination of angry-posting on my phone and it being early in the morning. "Ethically" is the word I was attempting to write out in response to the guy clapping in the CES audience and wondering when he'll be able to preorder his own Torment Nexus.
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Oct 6, 2022 20:54
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I think the boom in AI art 'as good as a human' really just shows how garbage a lot of industry art floating around on places like Artstation is. Turns out a machine really can replicate our creatively bankrupt emptiness in such arenas as 'crashed spaceship', 'neon cityscape', 'hot waif w/ sword (if a human does the face)' and 'culturally indistinct fantasy castle'
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Oct 6, 2022 21:01
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Strategic Tea posted:', 'hot waif w/ sword (if a human does the hands)' ' Fixed There's a thread on reddit right now of ai generated wheel of time characters and it proves several things: that wot is an anime, that Robert Jordan was a breast man, and that ai hands are Lovecraftian nightmares https://www.reddit.com/r/WetlanderH...nt=share_button
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Oct 6, 2022 21:07
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This seems really good for prototyping card/board games (and then probably sticking with the prototype art so you don't have to pay an artist  )
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Oct 6, 2022 21:11
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General Battuta posted:This seems really good for prototyping card/board games (and then probably sticking with the prototype art so you don't have to pay an artist It is; a goon boardgame designer has in fact used it in that first way.
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Oct 6, 2022 21:19
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General Battuta posted:This seems really good for prototyping card/board games (and then probably sticking with the prototype art so you don't have to pay an artist Strategic Tea posted:I think the boom in AI art 'as good as a human' really just shows how garbage a lot of industry art floating around on places like Artstation is. Also, I don't think faces are a major issue anymore, at least with some models (NovelAI seems to do pretty well with them). Hands are still iffy but I've also seen improvements there with the right tags and/or inpainting. edit: an example, these faces aren't perfect but they seem pretty good - https://www.reddit.com/gallery/xukv8u Novel AI is only good at anime right now, but it seems quite solid there - https://www.reddit.com/r/NovelAi/comments/xva7s8/i_did_not_expect_the_word_photorealistic_to_have/, https://www.reddit.com/r/NovelAi/comments/xvt8y9/cyberpunk_android_girl/ Cicero fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Oct 6, 2022 |
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Oct 6, 2022 21:31
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The mask of humanity falls from capital. It has to take it off to kill everyone—everything you love; all the hope and tenderness in the world. It has to take it off, just for one second. To do the deed.
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Oct 6, 2022 21:54
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This kind of tech progress would've happened eventually under any economic system probably
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Oct 6, 2022 22:02
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I don't think this technology is intrinsically bad at all, in fact it has some very cool uses, but I think it will absolutely be used to eliminate some classes of worker that were already barely earning enough to get by, and that is a consequence of the way value is assigned to labor in capitalism. e: see also the race to the bottom on pricing fiction by using algorithms to pit authors against each other for maximum output/minimum cost, with no investment in any given artist by those who control the actual means of selection and distribution
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Oct 6, 2022 22:30
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what the gently caress it can make my perfect anime waifu!?!?! I'm gonna coooooooom
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Oct 6, 2022 22:55
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World War Z by Max Brooks - $1.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000JMKQX0/
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Oct 6, 2022 22:55
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General Battuta posted:This seems really good for prototyping card/board games (and then probably sticking with the prototype art so you don't have to pay an artist I've been e-mail corresponding with Dave Morris and I'll admit that lately I've been pushing the idea of AI as a way to illustrate and complete his Fabled Lands series. Granted that if he and Jaime Thompson do that, a human artist will not get paid. But since they can't afford to pay an artist and charge a reasonable price for the books, the books won't get published so right now nobody is getting paid.
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Oct 6, 2022 23:24
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General Battuta posted:I don't think this technology is intrinsically bad at all, in fact it has some very cool uses, but I think it will absolutely be used to eliminate some classes of worker that were already barely earning enough to get by, and that is a consequence of the way value is assigned to labor in capitalism. once those classes of worker are eliminated they won't be able to agitate, and artists are historically some of the most effective agitators against capital. But you know, evil is an exact science To be carefully, correctly wrong ~ Shriekback, "Nemesis"
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Oct 6, 2022 23:33
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General Battuta posted:This seems really good for prototyping card/board games (and then probably sticking with the prototype art so you don't have to pay an artist
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Oct 7, 2022 00:09
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Those dastardly STEM majors. I heard they're going to make you type "my liberal arts degree is worthless" each time you want to generate a new van Gogh.
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Oct 7, 2022 00:34
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I don't see how a ML generated art is any different legally than sampling music.
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Oct 7, 2022 01:35
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pseudorandom name posted:I don't see how a ML generated art is any different legally than sampling music. It’s not a direct copy like a sample, so for copyright purposes it’s totally different.
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Oct 7, 2022 01:36
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You have to clear samples
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Oct 7, 2022 01:38
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Any artist whose work is included in the corpus for a machine learning algorithm should receive a license fee and royalty
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Oct 7, 2022 01:41
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