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Vizuyos posted:Frieza was obviously going to come back sooner or later but I don't think this was a great way of doing it. Felt like they decided to dangle a fan-favorite character as a palate-cleanser before going on break I dunno, pretty much everyone involved in the arc was pretty Frieza adjacent, I think it's an okay reason for him to show up.
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Oct 7, 2022 00:22
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Frieza and Gohan had a couple of team work moments in the Tournament of Power so I think he should kidnap Pan and eventually become an honorary parent.
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Oct 7, 2022 00:22
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King of Solomon posted:I dunno, pretty much everyone involved in the arc was pretty Frieza adjacent, I think it's an okay reason for him to show up. The Heeters whole thing was wanting to kill Frieza and take over the Frieza Force (Why didn't they try to do that when Frieza was dead for like 10 years?) so they were going to face off with Frieza eventually. Turns out that face-off was just Frieza going "Later jabronis" and curb-stomping them.
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Oct 7, 2022 00:34
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:The Heeters whole thing was wanting to kill Frieza and take over the Frieza Force (Why didn't they try to do that when Frieza was dead for like 10 years?) so they were going to face off with Frieza eventually. It is the most appropriate way for that to go.
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Oct 7, 2022 00:35
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King of Solomon posted:I dunno, pretty much everyone involved in the arc was pretty Frieza adjacent, I think it's an okay reason for him to show up. Yeah, I'm not complaining about him showing up, I'm complaining about the way he rolled in, showed off a new powerup, and left again after being there for less than half a single chapter. The very last chapter before hiatus, too.
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Oct 7, 2022 01:10
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Black Freeza owns.
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Oct 7, 2022 01:13
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I’d really have to see what they do with Black Frieza down the line. Though he was the one of the few redeemable parts of the Granolah arc so I’m liking it so far
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Oct 7, 2022 01:40
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considering the fish talking about there being a new strongest fighter in the universe at the start of the arc then later not recognising Gas, and all the factions relation to freeza, the whole story was set up from the beginning to just have Freeza punk everyone at the end and hype him as the actual strongest then set up some Freeza based arc it was fine, though dragged, to read all in one go. i wouldnt have wanted to follow it issue by issue though
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Oct 7, 2022 01:51
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That's why I liked Goku Black too, he was pulling out bullshit power ups all the drat time.
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Oct 7, 2022 03:38
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:The Heeters whole thing was wanting to kill Frieza and take over the Frieza Force (Why didn't they try to do that when Frieza was dead for like 10 years?) so they were going to face off with Frieza eventually. I think they did, but then Freeza showed up again and took back his force being stronger than ever. Instead of wondering how he became alive again they instead wondered if they could wish to be the strongest in the universe instead.
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Oct 7, 2022 08:44
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Azubah posted:That's why I liked Goku Black too, he was pulling out bullshit power ups all the drat time. To the point that not even he knew what he could do after a point. That was funny.
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Oct 7, 2022 13:45
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I think my big frustration is that each of the new villains and supporting characters in the recent arcs could have been much better developed. It feels like Toriyama is setting up great concepts and character designs, but Toyotaro or the editor or somebody is just failing to execute. The Heeters are a deadweight loss, but I felt like Seven-Three (especially that there’s multiple Seven-Threes? Who made those?!) and Moro were both characters I wanted to know more about. We got a decent shot of Granolah’s backstory, but it quickly got taken over by Bardock. I do hope he sticks around and maybe we get something about how he gets around only having three years left to live. I don’t even remember the names of the other two Heeters besides Gas and Elec, I’m sure they’ll be good for a couple more sight-gags as Frieza’s waitstaff but they were otherwise complete filler non-entities. I laughed hard at Frieza’s sudden return mostly because it was the most solid example of how bare-bones the plotting has been. Frieza shows up, reveals new transformation, wrecks everybody, and leaves. Manga is now on hiatus, bye everybody!!!
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Oct 7, 2022 15:38
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The Heeters are a neat concept and adding more texture to Universe 7 outside of Earth is good, but I don't think Toyotaro had any idea what he wanted to do with them. You have Elec who is the slimy schemer, Gas who is the tough fighter guy, and the other two are just...there and do nothing. Like Toriyama gave him the designs for the whole family but he could only think up ideas on how to use two of them. I'd have liked to see Elec cut his losses and gently caress off way earlier to be a nuisance later on instead of being a useless idiot and dying for no reason. Freeza could have gotten the same level of glow-up just by blowing up Gas.
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Oct 7, 2022 15:52
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Kanos posted:I'd have liked to see Elec cut his losses and gently caress off way earlier to be a nuisance later on instead of being a useless idiot and dying for no reason. Freeza could have gotten the same level of glow-up just by blowing up Gas. Agreed.
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Oct 7, 2022 16:10
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Speaking of, has it been announced when the manga’s coming back yet out of curiosity?
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Oct 7, 2022 17:08
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I had a nerdy as gently caress shower thought earlier.. In DBZ-A, Gohan bitches at Krillin for not Solar Flare - Kienzan comboing Freiza to death when he had the chance. If Krillin had somehow killed Frieza with a Keinzan early in the fight, it would have been a disaster. Goku never would have learned Instant Transmission or gone Super Saiyan. Piccolo never would have fused with Nail. Vegeta would be down a zenkai power up a la Dende and possibly could have just gone his own way after the fight, if he didn't just outright kill Krillin, Gohan, and Dende now that their little truce was over, then go kill Goku in the healing chamber. Assuming that didn't happen and Vegeta just let them live and hosed off in a Ginyu pod, they could still use the dragon balls and make their wishes and get back to Earth. If Frieza got revived as normal and came to Earth, it would have been a bloodbath. No Trunks, no Vegeta, a lower power Piccolo, presumably less powerful Gohan due to his zenkais over the course of the fighting.. Might be fun to explore in a Xenoverse, but the team really needs to thank Krillin for his incompetence with his best attack. (Krillin is best human, love you forever.)
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Oct 8, 2022 21:27
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I mean if you really want to you can say it would play out pretty much like the cooler movie
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Oct 8, 2022 21:43
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New Leaf posted:I had a nerdy as gently caress shower thought earlier.. In DBZ-A, Gohan bitches at Krillin for not Solar Flare - Kienzan comboing Freiza to death when he had the chance. If Krillin had somehow killed Frieza with a Keinzan early in the fight, it would have been a disaster. Goku never would have learned Instant Transmission or gone Super Saiyan. Piccolo never would have fused with Nail. Vegeta would be down a zenkai power up a la Dende and possibly could have just gone his own way after the fight, if he didn't just outright kill Krillin, Gohan, and Dende now that their little truce was over, then go kill Goku in the healing chamber. Assuming that didn't happen and Vegeta just let them live and hosed off in a Ginyu pod, they could still use the dragon balls and make their wishes and get back to Earth. If Frieza got revived as normal and came to Earth, it would have been a bloodbath. No Trunks, no Vegeta, a lower power Piccolo, presumably less powerful Gohan due to his zenkais over the course of the fighting.. Might be fun to explore in a Xenoverse, but the team really needs to thank Krillin for his incompetence with his best attack. (Krillin is best human, love you forever.) if it totally kills Freeza, there's nothing stopping him from also hitting Vegeta with it and lord have mercy if Robo-Freeza is too arrogant to install, like, a light filter or something for his revenge tour
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Oct 8, 2022 21:48
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while I don't normally advocate for a story having all its characters absolutely min-max the most objectively OP strats, it is really funny to think about Krillin having an epiphany and suddenly turning into Zero Punch Man
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Oct 8, 2022 21:53
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If Krillin did that, the top half or whatever of Freeza would have just blown up the planet right then and there and waited for his dad to put him back together.
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Oct 8, 2022 22:01
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Krillin cannot be allowed to evolve and succeed as a Z-Fighter because then he’d be auto-killing absolutely everyone that isn’t another boring regenerator, and that would drive The Saiyans insane from never being able to have hyper extended deathmatches. He’s way more of an assassin than anyone of the Crane School could ever be.
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Oct 8, 2022 22:05
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Darko posted:If Krillin did that, the top half or whatever of Freeza would have just blown up the planet right then and there and waited for his dad to put him back together. This would have been a funny way to showcase Kienzan being powerful without it becoming an instant win. Like that one anime only scene where it just bounces off Cell's neck instead just have it slice his head off, but Cell just grows another head.
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Oct 8, 2022 22:18
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Darko posted:If Krillin did that, the top half or whatever of Freeza would have just blown up the planet right then and there and waited for his dad to put him back together. My thought was that if he hadn't flipped he would have lopped off Frieza's head rather than the tip of his tail. Only so much a floating head can do. I guess he could shoot eye lasers at everyone and spear them with his horns. Electric Phantasm posted:This would have been a funny way to showcase Kienzan being powerful without it becoming an instant win. Like that one anime only scene where it just bounces off Cell's neck instead just have it slice his head off, but Cell just grows another head. Or would the head grow another body? Or both. Double Perfect Cells.
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Oct 8, 2022 23:15
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New Leaf posted:I had a nerdy as gently caress shower thought earlier.. In DBZ-A, Gohan bitches at Krillin for not Solar Flare - Kienzan comboing Freiza to death when he had the chance. If Krillin had somehow killed Frieza with a Keinzan early in the fight, it would have been a disaster. Goku never would have learned Instant Transmission or gone Super Saiyan. Piccolo never would have fused with Nail. Vegeta would be down a zenkai power up a la Dende and possibly could have just gone his own way after the fight, if he didn't just outright kill Krillin, Gohan, and Dende now that their little truce was over, then go kill Goku in the healing chamber. Assuming that didn't happen and Vegeta just let them live and hosed off in a Ginyu pod, they could still use the dragon balls and make their wishes and get back to Earth. If Frieza got revived as normal and came to Earth, it would have been a bloodbath. No Trunks, no Vegeta, a lower power Piccolo, presumably less powerful Gohan due to his zenkais over the course of the fighting.. Might be fun to explore in a Xenoverse, but the team really needs to thank Krillin for his incompetence with his best attack. (Krillin is best human, love you forever.) Great, now I'm nerding over this, but: I think you have part of it wrong. Krillin Kienzans Frieza, presumably in a way that doesn't let Frieza just stand right back up and transform again. Whether or not he's dead, he's incapacitated. At this point, several things happen: Vegeta at this stage is on his "gloat over an enemy's body and then vaporize them" thing. So, he presumably does this Frieza. That's Frieza gone, because Vegeta wants to get his murder on. Piccolo encounters Nail and they probably still fuse, because so far as Nail can tell he's basically dead, they don't know what might be coming next, and Piccolo is the last warrior Namekian. So Piccolo probably still gets that power up. While Vegeta has no one directly opposing him at the moment, he also has incentive NOT to immediately murder everyone. The entire point of the gang coming to Namek was to revive their friends with Namek's Dragonballs, including Piccolo. Piccolo being back in play means Earth's Dragonballs are back in play, but Guru being dead means the Namekian ones aren't. Gohan, at least, is going to be smart enough to point this out. He can kill everyone else here, but he can't kill Piccolo. Piccolo, on the other hand, is spiteful (and angry) enough to kill himself just to deny Vegeta a chance at immortality. The only way Vegeta gets to make his play for Earth's Dragonballs is if he keeps playing nice at least a little longer. They're at an impasse, until Kami and Popo use the Earth's Dragonballs to revive all those killed on Namek by Frieza's men. By this point, Piccolo-Fused-With-Nail is back, Goku's healed, and Vegeta can't beat them and isn't going to try. He can't get the zenkai off a Dende heal because he's not worth healing. So his plan to usurp the wish is off, because there's nothing keeping them from outright erasing him as necessary. Guru comes back with the wish, because the same circumstances happened, so he has time to pass the title of Elder Namek down. The Namekian Dragonballs are back in play, but anyone with half a brain is going to realize that they're now in major trouble if, say, everyone leaves and then Vegeta comes back, or if there's anyone else Frieza didn't bring to Namek. Or, you know, if King Cold shows up wondering where his darling son is, and glasses the place. Piccolo could stay as a protector, but Gohan's not going to stay, and Piccolo is still more of Earth. After all, he had his chance to hang out with the Namekians, and didn't seem interested. He's going back to Earth with the Z Fighters. So, the Namekians have a few options here, but the simplest one is just to move their planet. They don't have any real outside contact with other races, they're not important on a galactic level, and they want people to NOT be able to find them. So, as soon as everyone gets the gently caress off their property, they're taking it somewhere else. They can just make a wish to do so, no big deal. Maybe they'll give Piccolo or Gohan or someone the location, in case they need to make another wish. Either way though, thanks for your help, please leave before you draw someone in who's going to kill us all again. The Z-Fighters want Vegeta where they can see him, at least until Namek's moved, and Goku loves the idea of a sparring partner like Vegeta. Vegeta is an rear end in a top hat but he's not completely stupid, so he'll head back to Earth with them for a while, maybe he can gather the Dragonballs while he's there. At this point, what's he got to lose? Besides, King Cold is going to be gunning for his rear end anyway, better to be on the planet with a bunch of assholes he can use as cannonfodder. This really does basically just lead into something like the Cooler movie, everyone's back in the same place, Goku hasn't gone Super, there's no Metal Frieza to gently caress things up. At some point, King Cold is going to show up on Earth on a revenge mission, but that's going to take a little while. Vegeta may or may not keep striving for immortality, but he kind of stopped working towards that in the main timeline shortly after Namek. He had more important business: proving he was better than that low class Kakarot. Goku's not going to get Super Saiyan on Earth without a villain to fight or something to avenge. Vegeta's not going to get it because he doesn't even know how it works, and without Goku's example he would have no idea what to strive for beyond "make number bigger". There's a fair chance that King Cold arriving could either lead into Super Saiyan Goku, or everyone dying because they're not ready for someone near Final Form Frieza's level. Assuming they survive that encounter, they're not ready for the Androids. They probably die as in the Future Trunks timeline. Vegeta MIGHT have gotten Super Saiyan if Goku did, and Vegeta left to learn it himself, or if Vegeta got it against Cold. Then Future Trunks comes back, probably right after King Cold, and drops Goku off the Heart Virus medicine, or at least warns them about the Androids. At this point there's a fair chance canon is more or less the same, except Goku doesn't know Instant Transmission. Which could go plenty of ways.
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Oct 8, 2022 23:58
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Didn’t the ending of the fight with Goku pretty much cement that Frieza would’ve beaten the poo poo out of all of them while cut in half anyways
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Oct 9, 2022 00:03
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Assuming his transformation didn’t just regenerate himself
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Oct 9, 2022 00:04
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Kurui Reiten posted:Then Future Trunks comes back, probably right after King Cold, and drops Goku off the Heart Virus medicine, or at least warns them about the Androids. At this point there's a fair chance canon is more or less the same, except Goku doesn't know Instant Transmission. Which could go plenty of ways. At minimum Tien gets iced by Semi-Perfect Cell and they almost certainly don't get Dende to Earth in time to remake the Dragon Balls.
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Oct 9, 2022 00:04
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TheKingofSprings posted:Didn’t the ending of the fight with Goku pretty much cement that Frieza would’ve beaten the poo poo out of all of them while cut in half anyways Freeza reviving as a pile of chunks and still surviving proved that.
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Oct 9, 2022 00:39
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Rudoku posted:Freeza reviving as a pile of chunks and still surviving proved that. Yeah this needs to be noted. Freeza was literal chunks of meat and still alive. If Krillin nailed him with a disc, he would probably survive- and more frightening, could potentially heal the damage. Krillin did cut off his tail and he regenerated that when transforming. So long as the has the power and is in a lower stage, in theory the physical transformation could lend itself to healing, though I'd imagine it'd eat up a chunk of energy to do so. But with how out there powerful Freeza was, it would have been inconsequential.
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Oct 9, 2022 01:19
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Also Frieza might just enrage and blow up the planet, dragonballs be damned.
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Oct 9, 2022 01:49
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Android/Cell Saga where they decide to try mixing Oozaru and Super Saiyan early to figure out if it’ll be an edge, and either just roll with that, discover SSj4 early, or discover Ikari and stack it with Super to become pseudo Brolys
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Oct 9, 2022 02:10
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Kurui Reiten posted:Piccolo encounters Nail and they probably still fuse, because so far as Nail can tell he's basically dead, they don't know what might be coming next, and Piccolo is the last warrior Namekian. So Piccolo probably still gets that power up. Pretty sure Piccolo kicks Vegeta's rear end here.
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Oct 9, 2022 02:12
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MonsterEnvy posted:Pretty sure Piccolo kicks Vegeta's rear end here. There's a time lag between Piccolo fusing with Nail, and Piccolo showing up to help with Frieza. I'm just stating why I think Vegeta wouldn't immediately kill Gohan and Krillin during that time.
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Oct 9, 2022 02:38
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You’re all seriously underestimating just how gigantic Vegeta’s pride would be after killing him, he’d never murder people who were there as live witnesses to his victory He’d need them around at least long enough to make sure they can confirm what happened to Goku and others
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Oct 9, 2022 03:36
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Black August posted:You’re all seriously underestimating just how gigantic Vegeta’s pride would be after killing him, he’d never murder people who were there as live witnesses to his victory At which point we get a remix of the Saiyan Saga but this time Piccolo and Goku are both stronger than Vegeta and Goku is going to be less generous about letting Vegeta live.
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Oct 9, 2022 06:15
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Piccolo would probably kill Vegeta however, Piccolo even said Vegeta was next after Freeza, before Freeza revealed he still had two more transformations and he was too much to handle.
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Oct 10, 2022 03:01
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Hot take, but Vegeta had a couple of opportunities to kill the crew before teaming up. Regardless of those circumstances, I honestly think Saiyan/Frieza era Vegeta doesn't go after anyone that isn't blocking an objective. I don't think he kills for fun... filler excluded. I think he would've left the Namekians alone if they submitted immediately. I'm sure there are a bunch of counter-examples I'm missing.
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Oct 10, 2022 04:32
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He kinda says it himself at the end of Z, he only used to fight to prove his superiority over others. He killed the Namekians because they wouldn’t listen when he said “give me the loving Dragonball” and he didn’t kill Krillin/Gohan in Namek because they gave him the loving dragonball. But also the man is spiteful and petulant enough to nuke an entire planet because someone didn’t immediately crumple and fold in a single round of combat so who knows!
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Oct 10, 2022 04:57
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I dont think saiyan saga vegeta could even blow up the planet. Please argue for ten pages about this
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Oct 10, 2022 05:04
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Vegeta would probably have liked to kill Baldy and The Kid, but things kept coming up (the Ginyu Force) that convinced him he needed them as meatshields if nothing else.
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Oct 10, 2022 05:06
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