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NtN name thing: Elizabeth comes from Hebrew Elisheba, “God is my oath” or “God is abundance.” El = God, obviously, and the -sheba can stand alone as just “oath” or “abundance.” Cleave off the theophoric half of Elizabeth and you get -zabeth, or the common name Beth. Corona is Latin for crown. So you bolt -beth onto it and you have… many crowns.
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Oct 6, 2022 01:34
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I burned through Nona in about a day, and I'm glad this one got broken out into its own book. The contrast of Nona's childish POV with the reality of a warzone city under siege made for some gut-churning tension -- I spent the entire book wondering if I was going to turn the page to see one of the protagonists ripped away. Muir isn't a cruel author, all our faves make it (and also Ianthe), but I don't think I've experienced any story quite like it since the film version of Children of Men. The bit where the Angel is instructing the kids on how to escape to the desert and survive broke my heart. I deeply respect her for dedicating a whole book to this, it's a damning depiction of imperialism over and above John's self-effacing half-truths. The vast majority of the English-speaking audience is unlikely to have experienced something like this directly, but our governments have participated in making scenes like it play out all over the world for decades now. I'm willing to cut Gideon some slack, when I was younger, I certainly fell in with unscrupulous people after an extended period without positive human contact or understanding. Ianthe seems like she'd be a blast to hang out with, until you got to know her and how she treats others.
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Oct 9, 2022 03:38
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istewart posted:I burned through Nona in about a day, and I'm glad this one got broken out into its own book. In the Star Trek: Lower Decks version of this, Ianthe is Peanut Hamper.
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Oct 9, 2022 04:14
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Everyone posted:In the Star Trek: Lower Decks version of this, Ianthe is Peanut Hamper. A Mathematically Perfect Lyctorhood
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Oct 9, 2022 11:42
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Incredibly good episode, and yeah pretty apt
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Oct 9, 2022 12:34
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Finished the NtN over the course of 24 hours yesterday. Gideon thoughts: Before reading through this thread I initially thought when Gideon (or whatever she is calling herself) was introduced she was playing on Ianthe's insecurity and envy/jealousy of Harrow to get to the tomb. Ianthe was clearly dying to rub in Harrow's face how she is best buds with Gideon(although I don't think that would have gone the way Ianthe was expecting if Harrow had actually been there instead of Nona). I assumed Gideon's goal was to find Harrow and that she figured the tomb was her best bet. I did not take her as a willing servant of Jod or a real parnter/friend to Ianthe because of Nona's comment on how sad Gideon looked. Her hostility towards Nona makes total sense given her perspective. It has to be incredibly weird for the body of a person whose important to you(putting it mildly) to show up and be someone totally different(and also have the personality of a 9 year old). That's gotta take some time to process. After reading the other comments in the thread, I think it makes sense that she is really conflicted in the sense that she truly wants to belong to a community/family but ultimately knows that Jod and Ianthe are garbage. I don't buy the "soul splitting" theory, it's needlessly complicated. More generally: HtN was like a nightmare. It was entertaining but also a slog because all the new characters were so intensely *awful.* NtN was initially confusing but at least most of the people we're spending time with are just... more fun to be around. It was a much more enjoyable experience and I felt much more satisfied with where the narrative ended than I felt after HtN or GtN. Looking forward to Alecto. GoodluckJonathan fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Oct 9, 2022 |
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Oct 9, 2022 15:23
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silvergoose posted:Incredibly good episode, and yeah pretty apt From this point forward I'll be hearing Ianthe's speaking parts as Kether Donohue as Peanut Hamper. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YI_d00DJkrA Everyone fucked around with this message at 16:09 on Oct 9, 2022 |
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Oct 9, 2022 16:04
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I have a pet theory about Lyctorhood that I'm rolling around in my head, spoilers for some stuff from Nona but also earlier books. The imperfect version that the original crop used creates a sort of neurological "ghost" of implicit memories and reflexes for stuff like fighting but doesn't seem to copy their declarative memories of personal events. The process of copying the implicit stuff chews up the soul of the cav, but obviously doesn't totally destroy the soul because something remains to power their necromancy. There's also plenty of stuff Necros don't get from Lyctoring their cavs because Ianthe mentions in Harrow that she doesn't have Naberius' needle point abilities. That's why Gideon could still fight in Harrow's body, because Harrow had already partially consumed Gideon ala the fighting skills in the final events of Gideon but she's rocking the rapier in Nona because that's all in Harrow's body. Pyrrha can still fight because her fighting ability is still resident in OG Gideon's body. Maybe it's dumb but to me it feels like there's definitely some stuff about what resides in the body vs. the soul and I'm curious to see if the series ends up reconciling it.
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Oct 9, 2022 19:43
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Another implication of this is: what about John's ability to tamper with memories? We know that he does it by messing with the part of the brain where memory lives, and it's not clear how fine-tuned it is, but if it's a brain thing, it shouldn't work on someone who isn't living in a brain. I think Pyrrha actually said something in Nona that implied she remembered things from before the Resurrection.
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Oct 9, 2022 19:59
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Danhenge posted:I have a pet theory about Lyctorhood that I'm rolling around in my head, spoilers for some stuff from Nona but also earlier books. Hell, maybe the ghosts in the river are so hostile because they can remember that John loving killed everyone.
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Oct 9, 2022 22:28
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Reclaimer posted:Hell, maybe the ghosts in the river are so hostile because they can remember that John loving killed everyone. And then his loving minions keep clogging the toilet bowl to hell with RBs.
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Oct 10, 2022 00:48
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Rand Brittain posted:Another implication of this is: what about John's ability to tamper with memories? We know that he does it by messing with the part of the brain where memory lives, and it's not clear how fine-tuned it is, but if it's a brain thing, it shouldn't work on someone who isn't living in a brain. I think Pyrrha actually said something in Nona that implied she remembered things from before the Resurrection. I'm finally back to Nona so I'll see if I find anything like this, but I got the sense they remembered an edited account of events.
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Oct 10, 2022 15:20
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zero context HtN spoilers: https://twitter.com/barclaywrites/status/1579260116985319424?s=20&t=Y0_occSO-_ta8zeVlU2tNg
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Oct 10, 2022 16:22
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nona houses with leftists beefing
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Oct 11, 2022 02:49
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Not 100% sure how embedding Instagram posts works but Tor.com put together some Locked Tomb cosplayers on their account: https://www.instagram.com/p/CjlM4c5PXfM/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y= There's even a Noodle! (And Pash)
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Oct 12, 2022 02:27
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One thing I've been wondering about re: HtN is Gideon growing back Harrow's thumbs when the herald bites them off a hint that something different is going on, or is growing back a thumb easier than growing back a limb? At the end of the day I'm not trying to pin Muir down, it's ok if the whole thing isn't internally consistent. But there are so many little hints that it makes you wonder when something is a hint vs. you're imagining it.
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Oct 12, 2022 14:33
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Danhenge posted:One thing I've been wondering about re: HtN It's because Gideon is a good girl.
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Oct 12, 2022 15:12
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Wait, I thought Blood of Eden was a reference to something Biblical. It's a loving Peter Gabriel song? (It's really good, and it's got Sinead O'Connor doing vocals!) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XhDGkg8SpQ e: hey wait a second Peter Gabriel posted:I wanted to use the biblical image in Blood Of Eden because it was the time when man and woman were in one body, and in a sense maybe in a relationship. In making love, that sort of struggle is to get some form of merging of boundaries; it’s a really powerful union. And there are many obstacles to this.
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Oct 12, 2022 18:47
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Luigi Thirty posted:Wait, I thought Blood of Eden was a reference to something Biblical. It's a loving Peter Gabriel song? (It's really good, and it's got Sinead O'Connor doing vocals!) oh come on tamsyn
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Oct 12, 2022 18:58
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Luigi Thirty posted:Wait, I thought Blood of Eden was a reference to something Biblical. It's a loving Peter Gabriel song? (It's really good, and it's got Sinead O'Connor doing vocals!) Technically it is a reference to something Biblical as Peter Gabriel noted. It's just that Tamsyn Muir's inspiration was the Peter Gabriel song that used Biblical imagery instead of Biblical imagery itself. Which is not a bad thing, overall. I'm pretty sure that the number of religious wars started by Peter Gabriel songs is still zero.
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Oct 13, 2022 02:41
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Everyone posted:Technically it is a reference to something Biblical as Peter Gabriel noted. It's just that Tamsyn Muir's inspiration was the Peter Gabriel song that used Biblical imagery instead of Biblical imagery itself. Which is not a bad thing, overall. I'm pretty sure that the number of religious wars started by Peter Gabriel songs is still zero. for now
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Oct 13, 2022 03:03
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Just occurred to me: why did he call them the Tower Princes? What the heck made that seem apropos?
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Oct 13, 2022 03:12
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John has a strange sense of humor. In my mecha ttrpg setting there was whole society of "druids" who based their religion on old records from Earth that had survived. I should have made the connection!
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Oct 13, 2022 03:59
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Everyone posted:Technically it is a reference to something Biblical as Peter Gabriel noted. It's just that Tamsyn Muir's inspiration was the Peter Gabriel song that used Biblical imagery instead of Biblical imagery itself. Which is not a bad thing, overall. I'm pretty sure that the number of religious wars started by Peter Gabriel songs is still zero. Jod holding a boom box over his head blasting In Your Eyes at A.L.
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Oct 13, 2022 04:00
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Re-listening to HtN with a friend it's striking how much Abigail and Magnus are talking out of their asses after the Nonius/Wake duel. Like they're well-meaning but they're totally out of their element and don't know all the details, and they ought to to be aware that they don't.
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Oct 13, 2022 05:03
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Everyone posted:Technically it is a reference to something Biblical as Peter Gabriel noted. It's just that Tamsyn Muir's inspiration was the Peter Gabriel song that used Biblical imagery instead of Biblical imagery itself. Which is not a bad thing, overall. I'm pretty sure that the number of religious wars started by Peter Gabriel songs is still zero. The man in the woman, and the woman in the man
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Oct 13, 2022 05:29
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I mean there is a lot of guilt in TLT. A lot. Whole thing is Catholic af
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Oct 13, 2022 05:30
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sebmojo posted:The man in the woman, and the woman in the man And then you get to the “getting divorced sucks, guys” song a few tracks later. quote:Letting go, it's so hard I suppose there are worse things to be inspired by than Peter Gabriel. Still waiting on the epic fantasy series based on Supper’s Ready.
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Oct 13, 2022 06:54
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Luigi Thirty posted:And then you get to the “getting divorced sucks, guys” song a few tracks later. He's a supersonic scientist He's the guaranteed eternal sanctuary man Look, look into my mouth he cries And all the children lost down many paths I bet my life you'll walk inside
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Oct 13, 2022 07:21
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ullerrm posted:He's a supersonic scientist I feel like Neo. The cringe in my word processor stops in front of me and falls to the ground. I embrace the cringe. Nothing I write can be cringe, for cringe is a lie. (Interestingly I’m not even the only person in my friend group who finished GtN and immediately started writing short fiction again.)
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Oct 13, 2022 07:55
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Luigi Thirty posted:And then you get to the “getting divorced sucks, guys” song a few tracks later. I could easily write a whole quadrilogy based on the music video for Steam.
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Oct 13, 2022 08:14
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About halfway through my Nona reread, one general thought and a couple of other things.: The way the narration in the dream bits work is really clever because I didn't pick up the fact that the "you" he was talking to was the Earth the first time through. It really changes the character of that narration. I do think Canaan house was the research facility. It seems like maybe the nukes melted the ice caps or something and caused catastrophic flooding, because the narration feels like events just after the nukes went off when it's just John and Alecto. At one point during the narration it talks about how he raised a bunch of land up really high out of the flooding, and it implies it was the research facility. I also think maybe the reason why the River is full of angry spirits is that Jod is, knowingly or unknowingly, holding everyone back. There's a bit in the his narratives where he talks about how as a kid he hated change, any change at all. And we know from the bits in Harrow that he's been holding onto the same grudge for 10,000 years. I'm guessing maybe that if everyone's spirits pass beyond the river, he can't reach them for resurrection anymore. I think maybe he doesn't want anyone's spirits to move on because he can't give up on the idea that he can't fix everything, that he can't make the world better and then bring everybody back. It also seems like maybe the RBs are primarily angry with Jod for creating Alecto and trapping her in that body, rather than for killing them in the first place.
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Oct 13, 2022 15:39
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Sailor Viy posted:I could easily write a whole quadrilogy based on the music video for Steam. There's probably a post-apocalyptic novel in Red Rain. I recall one time at a Six Flags I sat through a middling-to-crappy magic act because the dude used The Rhythm of the Heat and that song just slapped my then 16 year old brain in the best possible way.
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Oct 13, 2022 15:42
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Everyone posted:There's probably a post-apocalyptic novel in Red Rain. I recall one time at a Six Flags I sat through a middling-to-crappy magic act because the dude used The Rhythm of the Heat and that song just slapped my then 16 year old brain in the best possible way. Peter Weller had Red Rain blasting through headphones while they were shooting the big warehouse shootout (where he arrests Clarence) in the Robocop suit. I like prog rock, what can I say. Foxtrot is one of my favorite albums. e: If we're doing song lyrics... Phil Collins posted:Help us, someone, let us out of here Luigi Thirty fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Oct 13, 2022 |
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Oct 13, 2022 18:41
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Luigi Thirty posted:I like prog rock, what can I say. Foxtrot is one of my favorite albums. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyY2zq6L2ew
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Oct 13, 2022 20:36
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Reclaimer posted:Re-listening to HtN with a friend it's striking how much Abigail and Magnus are talking out of their asses after the Nonius/Wake duel. Like they're well-meaning but they're totally out of their element and don't know all the details, and they ought to to be aware that they don't. They’re parental-like adults worried about another 18 year old possibly ending her life
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Oct 13, 2022 22:23
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Yeah, they're not wrong that Harrow is throwing her life away on something that only barely kind of worked and that blocks any attempt on her part to actually fix the situation.
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Oct 13, 2022 22:44
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Meanwhile, looking at people's art of the Locked Tomb makes me think about how insanely difficult it would be to cast the movie version of this series, given all the people who would have to play two or more roles. Off the top of my head: [LIST][*]Would you want a single actress to play Coronabeth and Ianthe, or not? [*]Harrowhark's actress has to be able to do Harrowhark, Gideon-in-Harrowhark, and Nona. [*]Would you want a single actress to play Dulcinea and Cytherea? Maybe not? [*]Camilla's actress has to be able to do Camilla, Palamedes, and Paul. [*]Naberius' actor, which ought to be a small part, has to be able to do Naberius, Ianthe-in-Naberius, and Palamedes-in-Naberius. [*]The same actor has to be able to play the Saint of Duty and Pyrrha. Honestly, casting Pyrrha raises several questions I'm not qualified to answer. Would it be appropriate to cast a cis man in that role? Would many trans women want to do it? Is there an accepted consensus on that?
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Oct 14, 2022 16:53
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Just make it animated.
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Oct 14, 2022 18:24
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Have you seen Orphan Black? Tatiana Maslany in every role, problem solved.
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Oct 14, 2022 18:29
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