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The great thing about Rogue One is that it stands a good chance of blasting those diminishing returns apart. The Death Star feels colossal. Destroying Jedha and the heroes' escape is properly apocalyptic, I love a couple of shots where it looks like the sky is just all ground. The heroes are just normal people and you get a real sense of what it's like to not be a dashing rogue or a powerful mage knight and suddenly be trapped in a room with Darth Vader
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Oct 30, 2022 00:07
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Rogue One overall is pretty drat good - I can’t think of any real bad parts before the climax. The rescue is tense, Jedha is super interesting. The opening visit is so well shot. I need to watch again. I wonder if your kid would enjoy Andor? It seems pretty out of the realm for young fans.
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Oct 30, 2022 01:30
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Now that you can watch some completed arcs all at once I think Andor is something a younger viewer might get into. The week to week pacing is probably the most alienating part of it for kids, but now you can sit down and take it in as a series of movie length stories - here's the tale of how Cassian joined the rebellion, here's the tale of his first mission, (and shortly) here's the tale of how Cassian escaped from an inescapable prison - I think we'll see it start drawing a younger audience
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Oct 30, 2022 06:49
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I have a feeling he's not choosing his escape
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Oct 30, 2022 09:53
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Still amazing how dirty they did Finn and how completely wasted the obvious opportunity was for a motherfucking arc. Going from Stormtrooper to Jedi, he even had a goddamn lightsaber battle against a former fellow soldier! But if the sequels are anything it's that they couldn't squander anything resembling a good idea fast enough, for reasoning that seems barely coherent even considering the most cynical takes.
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Oct 31, 2022 02:45
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Vintersorg posted:Rogue One overall is pretty drat good - I can’t think of any real bad parts before the climax. The rescue is tense, Jedha is super interesting. The opening visit is so well shot. I consider most things before the climax to be pretty meh. But it has plenty of moments that still make it worthwhile though, unlike Rise of Skywalker. But I always take it as a massive indictment that most people (myself included) don't even know any names of the leads except Jynn's when they leave the movie. And let's not forget Gul Dukat...Or whatever that weird squid thing was called that was supposed to leave you a gibbering mess. Which it did to one person and then everyone just walked it off.  I remember during my first (and so far only) watching that I got bored right at the moment on that grey planet where Jynn finds dad and blind monk shoots a Tie Fighter out of the sky with a giant bow he had hidden up his rear end. But maybe a second viewing will change my mind. It is interesting how Rogue 1 and Andor are highly regarded, while lacking the things that people actually think of when they think of Starwars. I'm curious what my son will think about the lack of Jedi...or if he'll even notice. I think he'd like Andor, even if it's a lot slower. I don't know when I'll get around to watching that though.  Ghost Leviathan posted:Still amazing how dirty they did Finn and how completely wasted the obvious opportunity was for a motherfucking arc. Going from Stormtrooper to Jedi, he even had a goddamn lightsaber battle against a former fellow soldier! Finn is absolutely amazing and probably the single best example of how bad the ST is. The first half of TFA he's compelling and full of promise. Then he become Deus Ex Machina as the almighty space janitor, sort off goes back to his original charactization at the start of TLJ, only to be relegated to comic relief/hanger on in Rose and Finn's Excellent Adventure and briefly becomes almighty space janitor again before getting smashed by someone who might love him. It all logically culminates in a movie of running around with the girl who almost killed him nowhere in sight while he tries telling people he's force sensitive but never actually does so.
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Oct 31, 2022 09:43
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Finn's the Han Solo of the ST, in the sense that he becomes more and more superfluous and doesn't really have any reason to still be around by the last movie.
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Oct 31, 2022 09:52
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New trilogy should be set two years after the ST and be about how Finn flipped his poo poo because everybody keeps ignoring pretty much everything about him, his traumatic past and his potential as a Force user. Him as a Force student failed by the system makes much more sense that whatever the gently caress they tried to do with Ben/Luke.
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Oct 31, 2022 09:54
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Darth TNT posted:I consider most things before the climax to be pretty meh. But it has plenty of moments that still make it worthwhile though, unlike Rise of Skywalker. The secret is that this has nothing to do with the quality of a given film, but with how often a character’s name is loudly repeated: “R2? R2-D2, it is you!” “Luke! Luke! Luke, tell Uncle, if he gets a translator, be sure it speaks Bocce.” That said, having not seen the movie in a while, it’s not too tough to remember Jyn, Cassie, K2, Baez, Chirrut, Bodhi, Saw, Krennec, Galen....
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Oct 31, 2022 13:59
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The secret is that this has nothing to do with the quality of a given film, but with how often a character’s name is loudly repeated: Best. Scene. Ever!
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Oct 31, 2022 15:33
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The secret is that this has nothing to do with the quality of a given film, but with how often a character’s name is loudly repeated: This is also why everyone remembers Jake Sully and Jack and Rose. I think Jack and Rose are counted at 80 and 50 respectively.
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Oct 31, 2022 19:58
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Vintersorg posted:Rogue One overall is pretty drat good - I can’t think of any real bad parts before the climax. The rescue is tense, Jedha is super interesting. The opening visit is so well shot. You can't think of any bad parts before the climax? I think the first 2 acts are a bit hit or miss, and I straight up hate whatever they were going for with the mind slug...thing. The middle of the movie kind of drags. But the climax is, I think, pretty unimpeachable. I can see someone saying the Vader part in the climax is unnecessary. I'd disagree with that person, but I can see that point. But other than that (and as far as I'm concerned, including that), the climax is just wall to wall hits.
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Oct 31, 2022 21:29
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Its a pretty patchwork until the pwning on Skarif.
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Oct 31, 2022 22:15
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My one complaint about the climax is that Donnie Yen's character should have used the force to pull that lever during his big heroic send off.
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Oct 31, 2022 22:18
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I will say that, even during the slow parts, I love Chirrut and Baze.High Warlord Zog posted:My one complaint about the climax is that Donnie Yen's character should have used the force to pull that lever during his big heroic send off. That's not really his flavor of the Force, though. He doesn't use it, outright, but instead gives himself over to it entirely, trusts his fate to it, and then does his thing, trusting that the Force will see him through it. Using the Force to pull the lever would change his character entirely. Of course, it also helps that he has Baze and his massive, gently caress off, repeating canon watching his back. Well, it helps for a little while, at least. I really like Chirrut and Baze.
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Oct 31, 2022 22:23
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thrawn527 posted:I will say that, even during the slow parts, I love Chirrut and Baze. I like that they follow a different flavor like Qui Gon. "I'll let the universe guide me," (Baze does at the end) and The Force does guide them to the path it wants. Not Jedi, but still working with the universe. Then it kills them when their purpose is done.
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Oct 31, 2022 23:30
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Darko posted:I like that they follow a different flavor like Qui Gon. "I'll let the universe guide me," (Baze does at the end) and The Force does guide them to the path it wants. Not Jedi, but still working with the universe. At least none of them have to become Force ghosts.
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Nov 1, 2022 05:39
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Grendels Dad posted:At least none of them have to become Force ghosts. well......
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Nov 1, 2022 05:50
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Rogue One is pretty good for a movie that basically had its central arc ripped out.
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Nov 1, 2022 05:59
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I kind of want to see a Tony Gilroy version of Rogue One where there's no manic assault of an Imperial beach or starfighter battle to disable a shield generator, just Rebel infiltrators using the bureaucracy of the Empire against itself and somehow getting the Death Star plans handed to them in the middle of Coruscant while the Commandant of the Empire's construction guild subcommittee looms ever closer in the background.
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Nov 1, 2022 06:59
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Robot Style posted:I kind of want to see a Tony Gilroy version of Rogue One where there's no manic assault of an Imperial beach or starfighter battle to disable a shield generator, just Rebel infiltrators using the bureaucracy of the Empire against itself and somehow getting the Death Star plans handed to them in the middle of Coruscant while the Commandant of the Empire's construction guild subcommittee looms ever closer in the background. This, but with the Death Star plans.
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Nov 1, 2022 07:03
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Darth TNT posted:
People said the same thing about Avatar. It's a bit of a 'telling on yourself' moment if you can't remember character names in a movie. Even if you can't, it's not really that important if you understand the role. I don't remember the name of the character played by Tommy Lee Jones in No Country For Old Men, but it doesn't make it a bad film or a poor role.
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Nov 1, 2022 07:03
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Pokémon do nothing but say their own name because it’s the only way certain people will remember. Perhaps real life actors should start doing the same.
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Nov 1, 2022 07:59
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well why not posted:People said the same thing about Avatar. It's a bit of a 'telling on yourself' moment if you can't remember character names in a movie. Even if you can't, it's not really that important if you understand the role. This is a very good point with an excellent example that leaves me to reconsider that point. The only counter I have is that there is a difference in viewpoint. Tommy Lee Jones is the POV and the movie is much more character driven than Rogue One which is more of a group effort I guess? Robot Style posted:I kind of want to see a Tony Gilroy version of Rogue One where there's no manic assault of an Imperial beach or starfighter battle to disable a shield generator, just Rebel infiltrators using the bureaucracy of the Empire against itself and somehow getting the Death Star plans handed to them in the middle of Coruscant while the Commandant of the Empire's construction guild subcommittee looms ever closer in the background. So the Andor tv show?
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Nov 1, 2022 12:36
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galagazombie posted:Pokémon do nothing but say their own name because it’s the only way certain people will remember. Perhaps real life actors should start doing the same. A lot of things clicked in place for me when I realized that Pokemon is first and foremost in the character goods business, like Sanrio.
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Nov 1, 2022 15:52
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The middle act of Rogue one is a total waste of time, doesn't get the story between the two points it needs to (notice how Jyn goes from totally cynical and angry after the death of her father to giving an inspiring speech before the assembled rebel leaders). The first act has a great structure and the third act is propulsive, but drat it meanders for the middle forty minutes. Only thing I'd really change is to scrap the initial vader scene, only hint at him throughout the film (like the show from behind when his star destroyer gets to scarif) before his big final scene.
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Nov 1, 2022 15:55
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Darth TNT posted:This is a very good point with an excellent example that leaves me to reconsider that point. Okay then, what's Josh Brolin's name without looking? (Only reason I know is because his name shares another Coen movie name)
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Nov 1, 2022 16:08
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Schwarzwald posted:A lot of things clicked in place for me when I realized that Pokemon is first and foremost in the character goods business, like Sanrio. There's a lot of little bits that add up to make Pokemon the juggernaut it is, but the character appeal is definitely a big part.
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Nov 1, 2022 16:35
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Star Wars is a weird case for not remembering the names of things, because there's so many things that people know the names of that are barely mentioned in the movies (if at all). Ewoks aren't mentioned by name in Return of the Jedi, none of the starfighters except for X-Wings and TIE Fighters get named on-screen, and Boba Fett's name was only mentioned once in Return of the Jedi (seconds before his death), but people already knew who he was from merchandise. Mon Mothma's also a good example. Everyone watching and discussing the show knows who she is, but her name isn't even mentioned until the seventh episode of the series. She didn't get named onscreen in Return of the Jedi or Rogue One either, so unless people are also watching all the cartoons or deleted scenes from Revenge of the Sith, Star Wars' cultural osmosis is effective enough that they could just dump this character into the series and expect people to understand who she was. So if someone's watching a Star War and they can't remember a character's name, then there's definitely something odd going on, because the franchise works really hard to make sure that these kinds of things just leak into people's brains without their consent. Maybe it's a merchandise thing - people know about Porgs and Babu Frik because they're cute little plush creatures that make funny sounds, but Bodhi Rook is just a guy in coveralls. Even other minor characters that people remember at least have a quirk that makes them memorable. Biggs is "Luke's friend from back home", Wedge is "the guy who survives all the battles", even Mon Mothma was a trivia answer for "the only female character outside of Leia, and Luke's aunt". Robot Style fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Nov 1, 2022 |
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Nov 1, 2022 18:02
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George Lucas is a fuckin' genius for names. Sy Snootles is the elephant man's name?!?!? It's like he plucked that poo poo from the collective unconscious. All his names feel like that. We all laugh but seriously the man knows exactly what to name this stuff.
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Nov 1, 2022 18:04
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:George Lucas is a fuckin' genius for names. Sy Snootles is the elephant man's name?!?!? It's like he plucked that poo poo from the collective unconscious. All his names feel like that. We all laugh but seriously the man knows exactly what to name this stuff. Agreed bigly; most of the post-Lucas names are pale imitations of his style at best.
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Nov 1, 2022 18:13
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:George Lucas is a fuckin' genius for names. Sy Snootles is the elephant man's name?!?!? It's like he plucked that poo poo from the collective unconscious. All his names feel like that. We all laugh but seriously the man knows exactly what to name this stuff. That's Max Rebo you philistine, you absolute buffoon.
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Nov 1, 2022 18:16
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sy snootles is that sexy alien singer
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Nov 1, 2022 18:23
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General Dog posted:That's Max Rebo you philistine, you absolute buffoon. 
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Nov 1, 2022 18:26
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Darko posted:Okay then, what's Josh Brolin's name without looking? (Only reason I know is because his name shares another Coen movie name) Josh Brolin is in that movie? I watched it like 10 years ago before I even knew who Josh was. Safest bet would be the assassin?
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Nov 1, 2022 19:06
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The trick is to separate the actual Lucasian names from the stuff that West End Games or Pablo Hidalgo or the authors of the Tales From... books came up with.George Lucas posted:When I’m supposed to be writing, I end up making up names,” says Lucas of the mercenary’s christening. “I have a couple of little books that are lists of names. Whenever I think of a name, whenever I’m in the shower, I’m with friends, or see a sign, I write it down in my little book. So when I have a new character, sometimes I’ll go down the list and pick a name out that seems to fit that particular character.” One of the earliest things Lucas did when starting work on the first Star Wars was just to come up with a list of names he could apply to different characters, which were (in order):
Then he started combining names, and gave them preliminary roles, creating:
He also started coming up with names for various locations:
From there, he started doing a find/replace on the introduction to Edgar Rice Burroughs' A Fighting Man of Mars, and just slotted in his own made-up names in place of the ones that already existed, just to see what kinds of things sounded good together without having to come up with a story to put them in right away. Other character names kind of followed a similar pattern, where he'd try out different combinations and permutations of words with specific connotations. Darth Vader came from him combining "Dark Invader" with "Death Water". Other characters have real-world inspirations, such as Lucas coming up with the character of Obi-Wan after reading some Carlos Castaneda books that featured a desert shaman character named Don Juan. Lucas didn't name any of the Cantina aliens outside of Greedo - there were production nicknames like "Hammerhead" which made it onto the Kenner toys, but even Dr. Evazan and Ponda Baba were just called "Human" and "Creature" in the script. The Empire Strikes Back didn't introduce a ton of new characters or creatures. Yoda came from Lucas wanting the character to have "an Eastern sounding name" (early names for the character were Minch and Buffy Debanden), and he also named the Wampa ice creature in the script. Boba Fett came from his little book of names that he'd collected, and the other bounty hunter names he came up with were Bossk, Tuckuss (later changed to Zuckuss), IG-88, and Dengar. For Return of the Jedi, the creature department actually came up with a lot of names for the characters in Jabba's Palace. Salacious B. Crumb's name came from a drunken ILM lunch where Phil Tippet slurred that he had to tie his "soolacious", and then Lucas added the middle initial land last name as an homage to artist Robert Crumb. Lucas did come up with the name for the Ewoks, which were originally supposed to be Wookiees, but because it was easier to find short actors than very tall ones at the time, he cut the name in half to match the shortened stature of the creatures. For the special edition, the new Max Rebo Band member Joh Yowza is apparently modeled on and named after Joe Cocker. The Prequels saw Lucas go back to a lot of his early names from his lists, with the podracers re-using older names to become "Clegg Holdfast" and "Wan Sandage". Jar Jar's last name was taken from "Bink", the name of one of Luke's younger brothers in an early draft of Star Wars. Plo Koon's name apparently comes from one of his kids saying "plonkoon" as a baby, and the Neimoidians are named collectively after Leonard Nimoy, but individually after Republicans (Nute Gunray = Newt GanRea = Newt Gingrich / Ronald Reagan). In Attack of the Clones, Dooku is named after the Japanese word for poison, Tipoca City on Kamino seems to be a play on the word Tapioca (since that's where you find Boba), and Jango Fett is named for Franco Nero's Django character. Cliegg Lars and Beru Whitsun get their names from Cliegg Whitsun, a character from the rough draft of Star Wars. Revenge of the Sith was more concerned with killing characters off than introducing them, but the planet Utapau has origins as the original name for both Tatooine and Naboo. The Disney stuff, as can be expected, didn't really retain any names from the stuff Lucas had been developing, but a few snuck in. Saw Gererra was originally created by Lucas for the never-produced Underworld live action series, then added to The Clone Wars, and later Rogue One / Andor. Rey's production codename, Kira, also came from Lucas' outline for Episode 7, and may have been re-used for Qi'ra from Solo. I also think Lucas might have come up with Kylo Ren. In the Droids cartoon, there's a character named Kybo Ren, who's a pirate. Lucas didn't really have much to do with the show, but Star Wars sound designer Ben Burtt did, co-creating it and co-writing several episodes. The Prequels also reference the cartoon directly, with Tatooine's Boonta podrace sharing a name with a speeder race from the cartoon, and Jango Fett being recruited on a moon of Bogden, which also originates from the animated series. Since Ben Burtt has had a multi-decade working relationship with Lucas, it's possible that he had access to Lucas' book of names when working on the show - either that or Lucas just really likes his friend's cartoon and wants to insert references to it wherever possible. Either way, Lucas probably heard the name "Kybo Ren" at some point and it might have squirmed far enough into his subconscious that he used a modification of it in his outline for the Sequels.
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Nov 1, 2022 19:39
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Darth TNT posted:Josh Brolin is in that movie? I watched it like 10 years ago before I even knew who Josh was. Safest bet would be the assassin? He's the primary protagonist, the one who finds the money. Darko posted:Okay then, what's Josh Brolin's name without looking? (Only reason I know is because his name shares another Coen movie name) Llewelyn (sp?) Moss I've probably watched that the movie 10 times though.
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Nov 1, 2022 19:42
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Interesting, thanks for the infodump!
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Nov 1, 2022 19:51
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General Dog posted:He's the primary protagonist, the one who finds the money. I had to think about this until I heard his wife say in my head LEW-WAY-LEN in that Texas drawl
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Nov 1, 2022 20:07
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https://twitter.com/sw_holocron/status/1587413116861796353
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