Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Wiggly Wayne DDS
Sep 11, 2010



Fast Luck posted:

There's (probably?) rules about repeating questions but if you can say "My name is [five names]" I thought he could at least say "My name is [other five names]."

It's easy to get tripped up on a little detail in 5:5, like the skirt question. My thinking has always been asking numeric questions is best, because then you can be sure to draw a line exactly down the middle. Something like how many inches tall are you, how old are you, and so on. I played this once for SA The Genius here, and one of the people said he'd never run a mile or something, I forget exactly. Eveeryone else gave me times and I used "I can run a mile in under 10 minutes" and then that person stood up for it because I guess he thought maybe he could?

I don't know, it's hard to go 100% and easy to get tripped up on somewhere, because for every question, if just 1 out of 10 people answers it differently than you thought, you lose, and you're asking several questions and gotta get everything right each time. Like the child question here tripped up some people because one woman had a foster child, but she didn't count that as her child. Someone correctly navigated that by saying "child of my own."

I think Nouchka did the least to get this far, and I'm happy with the final three we got, but yeah that was a bad beat, and from what we saw in the edit (apparently not true?) if she got that question, the other two women would be facing off. Of course, Thomas asked the exact same question about men/women in a way that was correct, so v:shobon:v Some of his other conditionals were pretty confusing, though.
I think if you confuse people it should maybe just be on you, no elaborations.

agreed on the last line. Anna-Maja did ask about how chained statements count for no-duplicates, and whether she could ask "i'm X and Y" and "i'm X and Z". she was told that it was allowed, so after you get that clarified you add on nonsense surely. there's a lot of extra info happening in behind the scenes chatter

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

GuavaMoment
Aug 13, 2006

YouTube dude
Was it Jinho or Sangmin who asked "I answered true to the previous statement" (or both, neither, someone else?) because that's just such an easy point.

Wiggly Wayne DDS
Sep 11, 2010



GuavaMoment posted:

Was it Jinho or Sangmin who asked "I answered true to the previous statement" (or both, neither, someone else?) because that's just such an easy point.
none of the players did that, just went and checked the episode (s1e11) and the game wasn't repeated given what happened

not a lot of extra information in anna-maja's latest streams for the genius netherlands, this covers s1e7 (latest episode)

- there was no extra time given to create statements in round 1 while the other players went up. notebooks were taken away from the players and they were told to wait in the canteen
- in the second round's questioning all of the guests are constantly changing what room they're in to make things even harder for the players
- there's a lot of wrong footage for the guests giving their true/false answers, but the count is always right
- anna-maja gets convinced third statement (on the show) was actually "i don't do sports, or my favourite country to visit is Malta" as she didn't have the answer for the last guest but did know which country they liked to visit
- this was one of the cut questions as it returned 6/4 and it got reworded to just the first part of the statement


another show to look forward to:
https://twitter.com/SquadBaechu/status/1594384237993467904

Wiggly Wayne DDS
Sep 11, 2010



the finale of the genius netherlands has landed: https://www.reddit.com/r/TheGenius/comments/z3urvw/the_genius_the_netherlands_s01e08_eng_sub/

grate deceiver
Jul 10, 2009

Just a funny av. Not a redtext or an own ok.
This was pretty good. I kinda wish that for the final game someone thought to do a big brain move and try to trip the opponent up by asking questions like "is your code a prime number" or "is your code divisible by X" and get a free digit this way

Wiggly Wayne DDS
Sep 11, 2010



the genius netherlands s1e8 (finale) thoughts as it happened:

the episode: the finale trio and how the show resolves this in 43 minutes will be fun. i notice Feride called herself the genius in the opening interview, i guess they've told the players this isn't Mastermind at this point. we're jumping into bringing in the last 3 eliminated players as a counter group: Fabian, Nelke, and Nouchka

main match is Final Destination, Genius team v Revenge team. huh a time limit where the highest room number wins if no one hits 100? letting the Revenge team have a way to win the show is a bit messy, but giving them secret missions to do during the main match should be fun. "if they accomplish that the one who survived the most episodes of The Genius will go to the finals"?? so there's no incentive for Fabian or Nelke to let Nouchka win, and really Fabian's just been told to try to screw over his team.. oof

we have a method of spending g-coins to upgrade the point tokens you can place on the board, kinda late to add that and weighs rather heavily on this game. as far as tag placement of the 2-pointers it's weirdly in the middle of the board, i'm used to players focusing on 70+ and expecting endless cycles near the end. Feride and Thomas both have favoured different early big jumps - bonus points for Anna-Maja securing 69

oh the Revenge team's secret missions are revealed to us at the start that's nice:
Fabian: all 6 players have to press 0 at least 3 times during the Genius team's turn (a bit difficult really)
Nelke: Feride has to get between 10 and 15 points at the end of the game (stall hard when in that threshold i guess)
Noucka: Genius team has to take an elevator up 5 times, and an elevator down 5 times (should be simple given that's favoured and there'll be a lot of loops happening, but that hour limit. i presume this is minimum and not precise)

lot of anticipating the best move for the other team and doing the opposite going on, nothing to really commentate on there. Fabian is again weirdly focused on making sure Feride doesn't win? Feride is rushing ahead in points with 10, but we're getting to the last third of the board with Revenge team. Genius team meanwhile slide back to 12 on the board, and it's not looking good for them finishing

editor's give a rundown of what's happening on Revenge team as i was typing it up: Nelke has no chance given she has to stop Feride gaining 5 points across the rest of the game now, Fabian's hosed no one's dived on all zeroes yet, Nouchka has a chance. really it's odd Nelke has a very specific win state compared to the others which can be complete at any point in the game.

10 minutes left and the game is just getting into the interesting part, a shame they put a time limit on it. it's pretty late in the game for Thomas to try and go with blatantly giving out the number from his team really, he's focused on getting points but.. it's a bit too late. Fabian just doesn't seem to realise he's the only person left pushing this grudge, editors left in some less than flattering comments from him

unsurprisingly everyone calls out Thomas when he gets caught in their second attempt at being a spy succeeding. Feride has to go over and tell Nelke and Nouchka that Fabian is sabotaging the game and working with Thomas. Fabian essentially tells Anna-Maja and Thomas what his secret mission really is given he can't act like it's really about Thomas gaining points. I reckon Nouchka has her mission by now, and Fabian's sabotages have only helped Nelke

i have to gather that the 10 minute warning was added in afterwards because there's no way all of this happened in that time limit on the table compared to the first 50 minutes. oh we're at 3 minutes now, and going with 3 more turns each - essentially telling Fabian he's doomed, and with the point deficit Anna-Maja is as well. rather quiet way to end the game all told

i am very surprised at how poorly Anna-Maja's token layout went, but that time limit really impacted their routes. Feride and Thomas going into the final match is nice, at least we don't have the awkwardness of one of the Revenge team making it there and then winning the show

we're going with Password for the final match? interesting. i recall there being some solid strategies for how to approach this, and the players are getting a good bit of time and support from the eliminated players.

Fabian has a solid strategy from the first question, while Feride is going with an odd one. good editing work to show the possibility space visually and how each answer fits into it. she is focusing on the third number which is better than jumping around, but going to even/odd so late is.. a choice. then again Thomas seems to think she knows the third number is a 9 which means he's not keeping track of her answers quite right

Fabian is saying Thomas' questions are too vague, but he's getting a lot of information that he can snowball with if he gets the right question out. Feride switches to asking if the second number is odd having figured out that it's the most effective question. i do like how they stick to their original strategies in the face of seeing their opponent's questions

i take back what i said Thomas isn't drilling down and have left too many possibilities, he has the right approach but isn't following it up. Thomas asks "is your third number even or odd" and Feride answers "odd" (aka even, having to lie), so we're just jumping past yes/no responses entirely now

Feride going with "is your 2nd number greater than 4th", but that doesn't change the number of questions to get the value of each. Thomas' question isn't gaining much ground either. Feride is going with a focused approach and Thomas is jumping around with long-shots. Feride goes to answer with 4391 which.. uh that last number can't be right, just giving up a question there.

Thomas goes in with a real longshot on guessing her number when he should focused on narrowing down the numbers left. Feride can just guess at this point as she has such a limited space to guess in, and she gets it. honestly great that she won given how much Fabian seemed focused on making her lose for.. no reason


season thoughts: i'd definitely watch a season 2, and hopefully they get some more runtime as it hurt the player interactions and the final match's design imo. this beat my highest expectations of a non-Korean version of the show, and with the limitations in mind everyone did great. only thing i'd say is the token of immortality was brought in for bad reasons, and giving the eliminated players a chance to win isn't great design but at least none of those impacted anything in a bad way

so when is the next episode??

grate deceiver posted:

This was pretty good. I kinda wish that for the final game someone thought to do a big brain move and try to trip the opponent up by asking questions like "is your code a prime number" or "is your code divisible by X" and get a free digit this way
ah that's not how it works "As punishment, you will have to tell your opponent a number that is not in your password." (33:28, visual confirmation too) so it was a pretty toothless punishment. focusing on even/odd, repeats, then drilling further is how you go about this from what i recall (and this episode obv)

edit: oh i didn't read sharpshark's note on the editing behind the scenes this episode, replace half my notes as:

quote:

Okay, there's a bit of an elephant in the room.

It's been known that the producers have taken some liberties with editing for the sake of ensuring a coherent/natural story within the short run time. This was the case in 'The Great Equaliser' in E7, where the second round was actually 5 questions worth 1 point each, but was reedited to be as if the round was 3 questions worth 2 points each. Additionally, they also took some liberties with the answer reveals, meaning that some shots of people presenting their answers did not correlate to the question asked.

In this episode, there were a few particularly big changes. The first is that the game originally had no time limit, and the game actually went on for 6 hours. Due to how long it went on, the producers abruptly imposed a turn limit to end the game so they could film the Final Match. And in the end, the Revenge Team basically forfeit the game to the Genius Team, allowing the game to end in their victory. The main takeaway from these changes is that Anna-Maja was given an extremely rough shake this episode, being that placing your tiles towards the end is typically extremely good gameplay, but due to the abrupt turn limit, her good strategy became horrendous, ultimately resulting in her being eliminated without really any chance to survive. Anna-Maja did a watchparty on her Twitch channel where she explains the episode in much more detail https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1659229786 (subscriber only, the main part starts at 2:02:00). Apparently the Main Match was quite messy, with cheating accusation and very long rounds.

Wiggly Wayne DDS fucked around with this message at 00:30 on Nov 25, 2022

grate deceiver
Jul 10, 2009

Just a funny av. Not a redtext or an own ok.

Wiggly Wayne DDS posted:

ah that's not how it works "As punishment, you will have to tell your opponent a number that is not in your password." (33:28, visual confirmation too) so it was a pretty toothless punishment. focusing on even/odd, repeats, then drilling further is how you go about this from what i recall (and this episode obv)

Must have misread the subtitles, that makes it much less useful :v:

Sighence
Aug 26, 2009

Apparently the time limit was entirely made up for the audience too, which is why one player placed their badges where they did.

Really good first effort, but I mean that very pointedly: this was the fifth effort and they didn't have to make mistakes the Korean version never got close to.

And holy poo poo loving leave the idea of the narrator lady in the building's rubble and just make her a dealer or something. This episode was formatted such that it was as bad as it could get for the overexplanation but it was really really bad.

Fast Luck
Feb 2, 1988

In Korean genius did the third place player not get a death match?? I feel like they ended this an episode early. Third place should get a death match and then i know in the Korean you had the finalists play multiple games. They blew through the most important part which is figuring out the winner! But giving eliminated players the chance to replace a finalist was the worst design decision. despite those shortcomings it was a nice job by the winner. When she guessed Thomas’s number wrong the first time I thought she’d written something down wrong and wouldn’t be able to figure out what, and was basically buried, but nope! Nails it on the very next question.

Fast Luck
Feb 2, 1988

also sucks that they abruptly inserted a time limit but you want your numbers to be on the most heavily circuited section. Somewhere contained between a lot of elevators or specifically on the end of an elevator that’s inside that circuit. I’d have to look at the board again but I think most likely Ana Maja’s placement was bad.

pokeyman
Nov 26, 2006

That elephant ate my entire platoon.
I had very low expectations and they were absolutely surpassed, so good job The Genius (Netherlands)!

I wonder if the producers were at a disadvantage for improvising when games didn't work out right, because they didn't develop them in the first place? Maybe there's a better way to handle too-long snakes & ladders than a surprise time limit. Without workshopping them in the first place, though, harder to come up with it under pressure.

In theory they lose something by not having the prize pool determined by the number of garnets, but in practice I don't remember many times from Korea where someone went "no we can't spend garnets or we'll have no prize money!". Probably a good simplification.

I so wanted Thomas to just rotate his list of names in 5:5. Like first question "my name is [names 1-5]", next question "my name is [2-6]", then "my name is [3-7]". Maybe production would say no.

Definitely loses something by cutting the runtime. Maybe don't need the 90min marathons, but 60min?

Thank god we didn't have any tactical yutnori, aka television poison.

Wiggly Wayne DDS
Sep 11, 2010



ahem

https://www.broadcastnow.co.uk/banijay/remarkable-leads-banijays-european-charge-to-the-genius-game/5177272.article

quote:

Remarkable leads Banijay’s European charge to The Genius Game

Entertainment label adapting Korean hit format alongside Mastiff in Denmark and Norway

Remarkable Entertainment is spearheading a Banijay Group-wide adaptation of CJ ENM’s hit Korean gameshow format The Genius Game.

Simon Crossley, head of development at the Survivor, Big Brother and Pointless indie, has been the driving force behind the super-indie’s optioning of the survival gameshow, which will also be adapted by Banijay’s Mastiff TV in Denmark and Norway.

The Genius Game, which first aired on Korean network tvN in 2014, tests players’ intelligence and social savviness. Players are chosen, based on their social IQ, charisma, charm and intelligence, to participate in a unique battle of wits and manipulation.

They compete in the Main Match and the Death Match, where their analytical reasoning, attention to detail, memory, and loyalty is challenged. They must form secret alliances and assess who to trust or betray to survive and become
crowned the genius. In each episode, one contestant is eliminated.

Crossley told Broadcast he’d been tracking the format since 2015 after becoming “enamoured by its originality in editing style and approach to loving games”.

Speaking alongside Remarkable co-managing director Tamara Gilder, Crossley said the gameshow fitted the “arced reality format” which the gameshow market “is becoming more receptive to”.

“The format champions and loves cerebral intelligence and is very much a ‘sit forward’ watch rather than a ‘sit back’ watch. The fact The Genius Game makes you lean forward really appeals to people who are fans of video games or board games or other types of cerebral games,” he said.

“And while you’re watching these incredibly intelligent people play these games, it’s almost like watching an HBO drama in a way, because there’s lots kind of backstabbing and there’s a lot of reality. Audiences are very savvy and like to discover things that are different.”

Gilder added the way the show is edited feels more like a drama than a traditional gameshow and played into the styles of unscripted entertainment the streamers are looking for with “arced storytelling rather than standalone, closed episode games or quizzes”.

“I think there’s something in the purity of it as a format,” she said. “There’s no way that we’re saying this is the death of a traditional quiz. But in The Genius Game there are some really clever, tricky individual games – parlour games which rely on using your personal skills.”

Jumping in early on a hot property Crossley said he was encouraged to snap up the format after seeing Dutch broadcaster NTR had commissioned an adaptation, which aired for eight episodes in October.

“I got in very early. I woke up at 5.30 or 6.30 in the morning and saw a Twitter link about the Dutch version and before I got into the office, I emailed our Banijay acquisitions chief to put a call out to CJ ENM because I knew a western version would help bolster our format.”

Gilder and Crossley both acknowledged it is a rarity for Remarkable, whose strengths lie in “smart, cerebral gameshows”, and Banijay to option a format, Simon Crossley given that Banijay’s main development is “absolutely committed to coming up with new ideas”.

“The Genius Game is a bit of an outlier in terms of development portfolio, and we’ve got a suitcase full of our ideas ready to go alongside this format,” he said. “We see a lot of third-party formats and you can get a little swept up in that, it takes something special for us to take the plunge and option.

“Korean formats have a sense of fun in them, and their audiences love a mechanic and having entertainment for entertainment’s sake. In the UK over the past few years, commissioning decisions have slightly gone down the route of: why now? What I love about Korean formats is that they don’t think like this, they just ask: is this a fun show, yes, let’s make it.”

Gilder added: “This is the show we’d all like to make. When you option something you can look at the reasons and think this would work commercially etc, but if we get this away, we’d absolutely love making this. That’s the highest compliment you can give to a format.”

Gilder and Crossley said they are sticking very close to the original format and are “still in conversations with CJ ENM, working closely in collaboration with them on all our changes”. They said they would draw on the NTR version to help visualise what a UK version will look like to buyers. In NTR’s adaptation the contestants were drawn from a variety of fields in which they excel, including a chief exec, a criminal lawyer and a chess champion. “The whole premise is
based on the fact that genius comes in different forms,” Gilder added.

Diane Min, head of format sales at CJ ENM said the Korean giant is “overjoyed to create opportunities for The Genius Game” in the international market. “With the elements of a hit show, including problem solving skills, social skills and the betrayal element, it is a show that can entertain viewers from all territories,” she added.

and

Sankara
Jul 18, 2008


Oh, I thought the Netherlands edition was in development. No, it's done! Completely! What a fun treat.

Wiggly Wayne DDS
Sep 11, 2010



game of blood season 2 announced: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0oKwoZFNts

season 1 was an amazing watch and really underrated, go into it blind

baechusquad are working on a new show: treasure hunt (competitive version of the great escape with one of the writers, trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idkQKjNiqLE)

girls high mystery class season 3 is in the works

pokeyman
Nov 26, 2006

That elephant ate my entire platoon.
Watching The Genius (Netherlands) turned into a rewatch of The Genius (Korea). Totally holds up. Though I will say That Episode of season 2 still makes me so mad.

Elite
Oct 30, 2010
Binged through Dutch Genius. I guess it’s been out for a while now, but I’ll keep spoiler tags.



Overall thoughts.

It’s more Genius so it’s automatically good. It doesn’t reach the same highs but that’s also a ridiculously high bar to approach so I don’t think anybody was expecting it to match that. Yeah it doesn’t have the same production values, it can’t match Korean music licensing flexibility, I think the time format handicaps it too; but despite all that it’s really nice to see a western made version of The Genius. I would have liked to see some new games, I get why they repeated existing games but it’s just a bit less interesting when you already know all the tricks.

I don’t mind the narrator comments as badly as other people, but holy poo poo some of the rules explanations are insane. Minus Auction rules is a good example. They explain the rules. Players then talk strategy for ~30s, then they repeat the exact same rules explanation for no apparent reason. I remember some genius games doing rules explanation followed by practice round followed by brief rules refresher. Which made sense, sometimes seeing things in action helps understand the game and you can better grasp how those rules apply. But redundant rules explanations, without any additional context to understand them, within the same minute is just buffoonery.

Ep1

I agree with comments that Food Chain is interesting and easily recognisable as The Genius, but also doesn't really work as a game. Some silly mistakes from players too here. Like Roxanna not killing other predators the moment they out themselves, or Chameleon not disguising as Snake, or Rick eating 2 birds in one round for no reason.

Was very confused by the death match. Because it explained that they needed different colours and numbers but then actually they only needed different colours. Which completely changes how the game is played. Kind of funny how the watch salesman was acting super confident because the death match is a 1-on-1 game so he’s acting like it’s pure skill. But the game is basically “Who’s friends give them the best cards” and he completely changes his opinion of it after his loss. The game does indeed suck but still funny. Also kind of funny parallels here with the loser from genius S2E1. Cocky guy gets predator, thinks his victory is assured, loses, thinks his victory is assured in DM, loses.

Ep2

I liked Rick and thought he had the best game sense, at least in the 2nd episode. But wow his social game was trash. Whenever people talk about ‘social game’ in Survivor or whatever my eyes glaze over because I think they’re just making stuff up and inflating personal opinions and I basically think it’s the most boring comment possible. But here Rick just made enemies, all the time, for no reason. The funniest thing was him walking up to a group of 3 in the 1-2-3 game and commenting “going badly huh”. It was almost impressive how he managed to effortlessly annoy people, whilst providing them with legit good advice for free. Overall they seemed way better at this game than the Korean players were. Most of them seemed to grasp pretty quickly that there’s zero distinction between mid pack players (placing 2nd or placing 2nd last are functionally the same), that there’s an odd number of cards in play so there’s a guaranteed 0 score (so a score of 1 protects you from being last), and that trading/gifting cards is an option. Possibly because this was the 2nd game they played, rather than the very first episode or maybe Rick had seen some episode of Kaiji or something. Some of the alliances they formed were inherently unstable, and Rizar’s suicide play was questionable (though that group was kind of screwed at that point anyway) so at least in this episode it seemed like people were better at the game aspects than the social aspects.

Very impressive how they came up with that Railway game strat so fast though. And yeah Nizar made a mistake and made the track impossible but still he had a ballsy Hail Mary play by making 2 tracks in his attempted solution. My running thought process went:“Wait what? Is that allowed?!?! Oh okay, no. But he made me wonder for a second if it was.” It’s better than just accepting defeat, at least in terms of entertainment value.

Ep3

Big town keeping the thief and ditching them at the end was such an obvious but also somewhat mean-spirited strategy. If you do that then literally nothing anybody else does in the main game matters in the slightest. So it was kind of funny seeing Rick running an information gathering strat when it meant absolutely nothing. It also seems kind of annoying to play because I think it’s fairly likely that the same people get exiled over and over again. Trying to keep a voting majority, trying to gain information, trying to maintain control over the thief- all these factors encourage keeping the same clique and exiling newcomers. Avoiding gold loss is the only factor that encourages exiling different people and IMO it’s the least important.

As for the DM the most notable thing is how brutal this poker variant when there’s such a big differential in starting chips. I’m not sure how I feel about garnets being able to be converted into bonus chips, then getting returned into garnets at the end of the match, yes there some bargaining and strategy elements it adds but it allows outsiders to *massively* stack the deck for one participant. Starting 15 coins vs 50, Rick didn’t really have a chance. Also the commentary mentioned in the thread makes the players seem a bit naive. Really, you expected to bring a notepad to a poker table so you could card count in written form? Really? With a deck of 20 I really don’t think it’s too hard to keep track of things mentally (especially if you prioritise remembering 10s and 1s) but even if someone had an awful memory then trying to card count with their chips seems like a much more realistic (and ingenious) plan than taking notes mid match. Wasn’t shown in this episode but was shown in the recap in the next, but Rick getting offered 5 garnets to pick Feride might have been changed things a lot. But Feride also seemed like a pretty tough opponent at this type of poker based on a later episode. From the sounds of things Fabian making that offer was just about the big town trying to protect one of their members and he didn’t have any issue with Feride, but then after this there was a season long grudge between Fabien and Feride.

Ep4

Open Pass is great to see, even though didn’t have the spectacular Jinho moment. Also kind of weird to see people retaining pluses in their deck. The difference between multipliers and pluses is just so huge, like you might as well include a minus in your deck if you’re going to include a plus. It barely makes any difference at that point.

10x10x10x10=10000
10x10x10+10=1010
10x10x10-10=990

Even getting 6s is fine instead of 10s, it’s just super important to get the multipliers in.

Obviously I realise they only had a certain number of operators available and without realising any tricks it’s hard to use operators from the same set that you intend using for numbers and you do get screwed hard if you only have a few operators and get a few bad shuffles. But it’s fair to say that a lot of the contestants ended up with embarrassingly low scores.

Was there any order they were forced to go in? Seems like going last is advantageous so you know what scores you need to beat and thus what risks you should take with an unreliable deck. Also was the limited shuffling rule in the original? I think it was, but I don’t remember anyone getting shuffle screwed quite so badly there.


Ep5


The worst case scenario here is spending a bunch of diamonds and ending up 1 shy of your opponent. So I think both teams had pretty good strategies in either bidding super high or super low- one team trying to bank early wins, another trying to stockpile diamonds to convert into guaranteed lategame wins. Fabien called things almost exactly right, then second guessed himself into a different answer and his team lost. Seems unfair to blame him for the loss though, a good strategy that marginally loses is still contributing more to the team than coasting on other people’s strategies. His attempts to put a wedge between the other team were kind of heavy handed and dumb though. Having a traitor is absolutely the the best strategy for Diamond Dilemma, but hard to cultivate that on demand and trying to get 2 players to flip on their last members is an insane approach for it.

Pretty good DM, though kind of weird they didn’t copy the strategy from earlier since I think it’s the optimal start. Enjoyed reading people’s explanations of the winning strats for both players from he midgame state.


Ep6

Some of the wheeling and dealing on cubes seemed well... dumb. Like Noushka trying to extort coins from Anna-Maja to pass the 22 cube. Yes the 22 cube was worth +23 points to Anna, but it was also worth guaranteed -22 to Noushka because Anna already had 21 and 23 so it was something of a hollow threat. I think Feride had a pretty decent strategy (grab a lot of cubes early and get sequence bonuses), but she grabbed a bit too much and it didn’t work out for her in the end so she lost the main match. I think the issue might have been not cycling cubes enough, a lot of cubes were a lot better for her than for other people and she just insta-grabbed them when she could’ve tried to get extra coins from them. Yeah it can be risky, but if you’re getting lots of cubes I think you need to strategically milk them for coins. Thomas waaay overbid for the hidden info (1, maybe 2 seems like the right kind of bid) and I think he had a bad strategy here - going for 35s is risky since there’s another unknown missing cube and also since the person right before him in the turn order was also going for ~30s. For that reason I absolutely would’ve taken Ferides team up offer since IMO at that point she was in a stronger position. Yes Thomas ended up doing better but he got a bit lucky and Feride got a bit unlucky. Also when he later accepted Ferides offer mid game at the table that encouraged Noushka and Anna to team up too so it kinda backfired.

Again a strong DM performance. Feride was a lot stronger than Nelke here and also kind of funny how Nelke got bluffed into folding with a 10. Repeatedly. Feride did mention she was trying to card count but hard to know how successful she was at it or how big an impact it had. I think Nelke was one of the weaker players but she still lasted a long time. She didn’t really do anything in most of the main matches, and sure she won the first DM but that was more that people decided to get the other guy out than her outplaying him directly. Moral of the story is that simply avoiding making enemies is enough to take you pretty far. Contrast with Rick who seemed like a fairly strong player but absolutely self-immolated inside of 3 episodes.



Ep7

Interesting that one of the guests refused to answer the age question. I guess a numerical format easily lends itself to an infinite number of permutations. “My age exceeds 50 years” “My age exceeds 50 years and 1 second” etc. Yes that completely breaks the game, but then so did Jinhos idea of creating new information and that was still fun to watch someone finding the loophole. So I wonder if the guest was asked to withhold their age. If so perhaps other guests would’ve been asked to withhold other information that could’ve been exploited too hard in multiple questions. Would also involve some rules debates about counts as a sufficiently different question, but “Are you over 50” is definitely a different question from “are you over 30” so there was a lot of scope for tuned compound questions if they had enough words “I am over 40 or named Jake” “I am over 45 or named Jake or Steve”. “I answered true to the previous question” is another neat trick that would be nice to see, but they’d probably want to restrict it so that it only worked once.

From the sounds of things the TV edit is deeply misleading for this episode. I thought Noushka kinda got lucky failing her first 3 questions, then asking the same tattoo questions as other people in the second section and getting double points for them. But then actually it wasn’t worth double points and they actually had 5 questions to ask. I can see how it shortens the episode but I feel like it misrepresents what happened.

DM was an absolutely crushing win. I think I prefer the other variants of black and white because there’s a lot of luck in this one but still I think Thomas did a great job at grabbing the information advantage and leveraging that into a big lead. Including the unplayed tiles it would be 6-3 in his favour. Which is insane when considering that 8-1 is the best possible score and drawn games seem reasonably likely.


Ep8


Again it sounds like the edit misrepresents the game which again is kind of annoying, and it sounds like sudden rule changes screwed Anna over. Strategy wise I think this game requires you to play around avoiding the worst outcomes, which they sort of did on their own turns but were less good at on opponent turns it seemed like. There were some occasional perfect reads though. It was also sometimes difficult to follow what exactly was happening at points, largely due to the episode time constraints. The genius team would be 2 rows ahead, then suddenly they’re a row and a half behind and it wasn’t always clear what had happened or how players felt about it. Genius players seemed to have pretty good placement for their scoring tokens, with several of them being hit multiple times. Anna was way behind, but with her backloaded tokens it’s not really a fair comparison when the game gets truncates by a rule hangs.

I actually liked the idea of Revenge players being given a chance to move to the final match, but with an extra layer of hoops to jump through, it gives them something to play for considering there was no money on the line. The hidden missions were a nice idea but their difficulty seemed wildly inconsistent. When Fabien opened his envelope I knew there was no way that mission was getting done. But the elevator/pitfall mission seemed basically free. If they had a choice of missions to pick from then maybe that would have been fairer. Also seems unclear to me what would happen if the revenge team won, and multiple of them had completed their secret missions. Not a very likely outcome but still a super important one to resolve. I also feel like it would have been better if Fabien and Thomas couldn’t start openly plotting in the middle of the episode. If the 2 teams couldn’t communicate with each other during the actual game, but they had some assigned break periods (for food and snacks or whatever) then that might’ve made rounds go faster and also might have allowed for actually subtle dealmaking. This type of game is destined to be long winded though. Anyway at this point Thomas has basically occupied the same role as Sangmin, though Sangmin was simultaneously more treacherous and more charismatic. And even with Thomas cutting a deal it still seemed basically impossible for Fabien to get all 0 roles.

I think Thomas was one of the best players overall so I don’t know why he’s copying the Yohwan strategy of asking loving insane questions for no reason. Fabien suggested a binary search approach to him, which seems like one of the best ways to play the game.

Is your first digit 5 or higher?
Is your second digit 5 or higher?
Is your third digit 5 or higher?
Is your fourth digit 5 or higher?

You can halve the probability space pretty quickly like that. And then if you do decide that you want to ask weird questions then it’s a lot easier to keep track of things when you’ve already eliminated a lot of things. There might be other strategies that are better but that one is pretty easy to come up with quickly.

Also noticed Feride asking a “Is this digit odd or even?” question. Which via a literal interpretation of the rules you could answer “no” and give away 0 information.

I also think the absence of power up tokens hurt the game. In this game there’s a really obvious dominant strategy, and if both players go for it then whoever gets first turn wins (excluding lucky guesses). The little power up abilities in Korean Genius helped add an extra layer of strategy and an extra layer of fuzziness so turn order might be less decisive. And just in general I prefer the final showdowns of the Korean version, where there’s a bunch of different games they play and all the allies and enemies they made over the season have one final moment of significance. That’s a lot more satisfying to me that everything coming down to a singular (glorified) death match.




Wrote way too much. Mainly a product of bingeing it rather than watching it weekly.

pokeyman
Nov 26, 2006

That elephant ate my entire platoon.
In The Genius (Korea)‘s 5:5 game there’s a guest who won’t say their age. I assumed it was the general “you don’t have to answer anything too invasive” rule and nobody was coached that specifically, but idk.

I only know that because I recently rewatched it. Also always love reading people’s impressions as they watch!

I wonder if The Genius (Netherlands) suffered from filming everything in such a tight timeline. The Korean one iirc was one day a week, and it does feel like the gang reuniting after a few days away. Probably harder to keep a grudge that way. Though I totally see the upside for the production team.

Elite
Oct 30, 2010

pokeyman posted:

In The Genius (Korea)‘s 5:5 game there’s a guest who won’t say their age.

I haven’t rewatched Korean Genius in ages, but I distinctly remember Kyungran getting screwed over because one of the guests gave inconsistent answers about an age question. So I think they did all answer age questions, just not necessarily correctly.

WrightOfWay
Jul 24, 2010


Korea has multiple ways to measure age and one of the contestants told Kyungran one way during interviews and answered another way during the game. I think she might have used slightly different wording for each question, but still, Kyungran definitely got robbed.

pokeyman
Nov 26, 2006

That elephant ate my entire platoon.

Elite posted:

I haven’t rewatched Korean Genius in ages, but I distinctly remember Kyungran getting screwed over because one of the guests gave inconsistent answers about an age question. So I think they did all answer age questions, just not necessarily correctly.

WrightOfWay posted:

Korea has multiple ways to measure age and one of the contestants told Kyungran one way during interviews and answered another way during the game. I think she might have used slightly different wording for each question, but still, Kyungran definitely got robbed.

That definitely happens (subtitled as “date of birth” during prep vs “birthday” during the round). But in addition to that, Jinho asks one of the women for her age and she won’t be more specific than “30s”, leading him to an incorrect “I am older than 35” sorta question in the round. (Which is his fault for assuming, not at all robbed like Kyungran.)

curiousCat
Sep 23, 2012

Does this look like the face of mercy, kupo?

WrightOfWay posted:

Korea has multiple ways to measure age and one of the contestants told Kyungran one way during interviews and answered another way during the game. I think she might have used slightly different wording for each question, but still, Kyungran definitely got robbed.

Kyungran is unquestionably the contestant who was hosed by non-contestants/production the most of anyone

Sankara
Jul 18, 2008


We all know what garnets are because we watched Korean Genius, but I'm pretty sure they never explained it in the Netherlands version. New fans must be pretty confused. Also winners don't gobble up the losers, so it's a very low stakes situation.

1. The return of my fav game! I was excited, but nobody really... did anything? Just kind of sat there. No twists or schemes or rewinds or anything, we just..... saw it play out. That was dull.

2. cute outside the box thinking nizar, i would have given you the win. ah well. not much to say on this one

3. main game had weird vibes. i kind of feel like the players don't seem particuarly invested? glad the youtuber got kicked out, i think he was making people uncomfortable. maybe things will pick up in later episodes

4. i wonder if they used the same cards that allowed jinho to do that sweet trick with flipping the card backs? nobody noticed, if so. bit dissapointed. they really blazed through the death match. rip roxanne, sad to see you go.

5. pretty dull game, there was no chicanery. they just counted wrong. fabian's gambit was pretty stupid, and his play in the deathmatch was especially stupid. dunno why people said he was a mastermind. glad he's gone. girl power!

6. pretty straightforward main match. nelke was the odd one out with the ring of life alliance scheme, so of course she lost. then was very nrvous in the death match, so lost again. c'est la vie. i liked her. funny what words are the same in english that are in dutch

7. i feel like the main match is very easy to nail, i don't understand why they had such difficulty. easy to say from the comfort of my home, i suppose. and jeez, that death match was 20 seconds long. boom, dead. rip strong lady. an all ladies final would have been cool, oh well

8. really? glorified chutes and ladders? ok. the potential for old players to come back was a cute idea, shame it was used on that nonsense. final match was neat. not sure what the hell tomas was going for there tbh. i missed the whole cast coming back and giving cheat items to the finalists, that really rewarded emotional intelligence on top of game logic intelligence. hm.

overall, i'd say the biggest problem was the lack of drama. wasn't really a storyline, or time to get to know the people better. or at all, really. nobody really played with any guile for the most part. was just... here's the people, they played the game. boom, done. ok then.

Sankara fucked around with this message at 09:54 on Jan 2, 2023

Anaconda Rifle
Mar 23, 2007

Yam Slacker
A post on reddit about what Jeong PD has been up to, with mentions of Great Escape and Girls' High Mystery Class.

Additionally, there's a new show called Treasure Hunt which is being subbed by Baechu Squad.

Anaconda Rifle
Mar 23, 2007

Yam Slacker

Anaconda Rifle posted:

Additionally, there's a new show called Treasure Hunt which is being subbed by Baechu Squad.

Just finished the first episode and I thought it was a lot of fun. Teams of 4 compete against each other to hunt down cases of money in Great Escape-esque puzzle locations. Excited to see the second episode whenever it gets subbed.

qbert
Oct 23, 2003

It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Anaconda Rifle posted:

A post on reddit about what Jeong PD has been up to, with mentions of Great Escape and Girls' High Mystery Class.

Additionally, there's a new show called Treasure Hunt which is being subbed by Baechu Squad.

Thanks for this post. I was waiting for them to sub the show but had no idea they had already subbed ep 1 nearly 3 weeks ago. Must've totally missed the Reddit post on it.

Anaconda Rifle
Mar 23, 2007

Yam Slacker

qbert posted:

Thanks for this post. I was waiting for them to sub the show but had no idea they had already subbed ep 1 nearly 3 weeks ago. Must've totally missed the Reddit post on it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DTCU/

Anaconda Rifle
Mar 23, 2007

Yam Slacker
The progress tracker on Treasure Hunt subs has not budged in a while. I was really looking forward to seeing more. Hopefully it's something temporary delaying the work.

curiousCat
Sep 23, 2012

Does this look like the face of mercy, kupo?

Anaconda Rifle posted:

A post on reddit about what Jeong PD has been up to, with mentions of Great Escape and Girls' High Mystery Class.

Additionally, there's a new show called Treasure Hunt which is being subbed by Baechu Squad.

Watched all of Black Sheep Game and truly the least savvy cast I have ever seen. And the NFTs as a consolation prize was truly the capper this series deserved.

ZearothK
Aug 25, 2008

I've lost twice, I've failed twice and I've gotten two dishonorable mentions within 7 weeks. But I keep coming back. I am The Trooper!

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2021


So, hey, finally got around to finishing The Genius (Korea) S3. Is S4 worth a watch? How does it compare to the other seasons?

pokeyman
Nov 26, 2006

That elephant ate my entire platoon.

ZearothK posted:

So, hey, finally got around to finishing The Genius (Korea) S3. Is S4 worth a watch? How does it compare to the other seasons?

Definitely worth a watch, it's the all-star season! If nothing else it's better than S2.

The Saddest Rhino
Apr 29, 2009

Put it all together.
Solve the world.
One conversation at a time.



Yeah genius s4 is top tier definitely watch it

Elysium
Aug 21, 2003
It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.
I don’t know if it really fits or I’m just projecting what I think “Korean game show” feels like, but Physical 100 on Netflix kind of feels like a cross between a purely physical challenge version of Genius and Squid Game.

They basically took every famous incredibly fit Korean star they could find (Bodybuilders, olympic athletes, boxers, dancers) and pitted them all against each other in physical challenges. There’s no crazy rules twists or backstabbing teammates (yet?) but it is left entirely to the contestants how they want to apply their skills to the challenges and the vastly different physiques lead to some interesting matchups.

The only thing I don’t like is it’s dragged wayyy out by doing 5 replays in a row of every shot, but at least not the way it would be in an american show, where they do 30 minutes of backstory for every minute of action.

fez_machine
Nov 27, 2004

ZearothK posted:

So, hey, finally got around to finishing The Genius (Korea) S3. Is S4 worth a watch? How does it compare to the other seasons?

after season 4 they decided they couldn't do it better and closed shop

it's either the best or second best season depending on who you ask

qbert
Oct 23, 2003

It's both thrilling and terrifying.
Genius S4 rules. They got all the best players from every season and was like, “Let’s find out who’s the best of the best.”

And you do.

pokeyman
Nov 26, 2006

That elephant ate my entire platoon.
I still need to rewatch season 4 but I remember two unexpected bits:

• A surprise main character (surprise given their earlier appearance).
• Producers gave up on trying to make Hweejong happen.

Leatherhead
Jul 3, 2006

For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast,
And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed;
And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill,
And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still

qbert posted:

Genius S4 rules. They got all the best players from every season

And also Jungmoon.

CeeJee
Dec 4, 2001
Oven Wrangler
The season 4 finale intro is so good it seems totally scripted. The rich kid who got all education known to man only to throw it away against the country boy who got put apart from the rest entering school because he could not read.
And then Kyunghoon keeps underestimating Dongmin even after he's watched him crush opponents for two seasons.
"I'll just move one piece back and forth, that will totally throw him off"
"My 50 billion number is impossible to use to find the formula"

SalTheBard
Jan 26, 2005

I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!

Fallen Rib
Watching the first episode of Treasure Hunt. Show is pretty fun so far!

Anaconda Rifle
Mar 23, 2007

Yam Slacker

SalTheBard posted:

Watching the first episode of Treasure Hunt. Show is pretty fun so far!

Subbing has been at a standstill for months.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

curiousCat
Sep 23, 2012

Does this look like the face of mercy, kupo?

Anaconda Rifle posted:

Subbing has been at a standstill for months.

I'm willing to wait for it

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply