|
Elephant Ambush posted:Wait what the gently caress why is Wakka so popular all of a sudden? Did they do an FF14 event with him or something? I don't play FF14 He had sex with Tidus
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2022 22:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 11, 2024 08:19 |
|
|
Elephant Ambush posted:Wait what the gently caress why is Wakka so popular all of a sudden? Did they do an FF14 event with him or something? I don't play FF14 Tidus sextape
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2022 22:39
|
|
|
Elephant Ambush posted:Wait what the gently caress why is Wakka so popular all of a sudden? Did they do an FF14 event with him or something? I don't play FF14 meme magic
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2022 22:40
|
|
|
Elephant Ambush posted:Wait what the gently caress why is Wakka so popular all of a sudden? Did they do an FF14 event with him or something? I don't play FF14 There was an ad in Japan for Dissidia NT featuring the line "Tidus's combo feels really good/satisfying!" Then a lot of memes happened.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2022 22:42
|
|
|
That's pretty funny
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2022 22:58
|
|
|
There are people who just generally really like tragic characters like Emet-Selch, it's not that difficult to understand. Also, a character can be a monster and people will still like them, just look at...you know, Sephiroth's whole fandom for like the past 20 years. It also helps that Emet's motivations make a lot of sense and if viewed from another perspective he would be in the right. Like imagine if our current climate crisis could just be solved by sacrificing literally every single dog in the world. And the reason why it won't happen is because some bitch is like "no, those dogs have a right to the future and our time is past anyway, plus I want to see what the post human dog world will look like". Like both of these perspectives are understandable, but as humans living in the human world, you're going to choose the path that ensures the continuation of humans, even if that means canine pupper holocaust.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2022 00:04
|
|
|
Gologle posted:Like imagine if our current climate crisis could just be solved by sacrificing literally every single dog in the world. And the reason why it won't happen is because some bitch is like "no, those dogs have a right to the future and our time is past anyway, plus I want to see what the post human dog world will look like". Like both of these perspectives are understandable, but as humans living in the human world, you're going to choose the path that ensures the continuation of humans, even if that means canine pupper holocaust. This is not a good analogy. It's more like if climate change had already wiped out humans thousands of years ago, and in this time a society of sapient dog-people developed. A remnant of the destroyed human civilization then decides to kill all the dog-people to revive the extinct human race. It's a persuasive and understandable motive, but it's also unambiguously wrong (and even Emet Selch realizes this and is mostly just struggling with the sunk cost of everything he's done up by the point he meets the WoL). It isn't remotely a "morally grey" situation - it's just a sympathetic motive from the perspective of one of the handful of people who survived the end of their civilization. Edit: Emet Selch uses the "post-sundering people are inferior" reasoning that presumably prompted your comparison with dogs in the analogy, but even he realizes it's complete bullshit (or at least has come to realize that over the millenia, as he watches civilizations accomplish things the Ancients never had). He just feels a need to believe this to justify his actions. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 00:34 on Dec 20, 2022 |
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2022 00:28
|
|
|
Context: Just finished the Crisis Core Remake, I never played the original. Did they pick and choose which locations to remodel after their FFVII Remake counterparts? Or were the VII:R versions based on the original CC interpretations? The street outside the Church in Sector 5 looked very faithful to how it's depicted in VII:R but then the Sector 5 slums were completely different.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2022 00:57
|
|
|
In the end you're still choosing dogs over people though, which is my point. Emet couldn't do it, and it's understandable why he couldn't do it. He isn't destroying the world for the lulz or because he's the manifestation of hate or something like some two bit 80's RPG villain. It's compelling.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2022 01:05
|
|
|
I still think Emet's mostly popular because he's a perfect storm of appeal for that kind of villain. He's the right level of unconventionally hot, he's sympathetic, he seems like he has a point enough for you to agree with but could possibly be convinced, he's generally charismatic, and he's fairly well-written and consistent in all of it. There's no universe where that's not popular, because he appeals to a lot of different crowds who generally like different types of character. Let's not pretend he's getting by on raw writing quality even if he is well-written; we're looking at a very popular dish, made well. He's basically a Snape or MCU Loki speedrun.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2022 02:36
|
|
|
I’m at just about the end of SoP and spoiler but not really Jack got negged into becoming Chaos.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2022 02:46
|
|
|
Jack just laughed like Krusty the Clown while talking about becoming darkness. He’s gone.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2022 02:49
|
|
|
I would also point out that Ascians are practically immortal and die when they choose to, whereas mankind (FFXIV definition, so Hyur, Elezen, etc) live short lives. To me I look at it thusly: If I was literally one of the last three or so humans alive and lived in a utopia (or what I believed to be a utopia), and I could get that utopia back plus all my friends and families by killing a billion sentient mayflies who live horrible, short, painful lives anyway, I'd be pretty tempted. I don't know if I'd be as flippant as Emet is about it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2022 02:50
|
|
|
Cleretic posted:he seems like he has a point enough for you to agree with but could possibly be convinced, Actually, I got into a discussion about that part a month or so after the launch of Shadowbringers. Does anyone actually think that if we had actually been such a badass to contain the Light of an entire Shard that Emet would have been convinced and helped us? I argued that no, he was too far gone and there was nothing that could have changed his mind or course by that point, but the people I was talking with seemed adamant that he was amenable to persuasion, despite like...ALL the context clues in-game, and the crux of their argument was that he said he would have.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2022 02:51
|
|
|
I don't think you should do genocide, even if the people are different from you
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2022 02:52
|
|
|
We wouldn’t be able to change his mind just like he isn’t able to change ours imo.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2022 02:52
|
|
|
FF Type-0: Did what I think is an optional mission which had some weird RTS/MOBA vibes. The story and setting continue to be absolutely fascinating, but man the gameplay is rough. This game deserves better. I also feel like the way you obtain new spells and equipment and other systems are not terribly well documented in game. You also spend just as much if not more time outside of missions talking to people and watching cutscenes, but that's not such a bad thing. Again, it's not a bad game, but it's definitely not living up to its potential. It's kind of a bummer.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2022 02:53
|
|
|
Gaius Marius posted:I don't think you should do genocide, even if the people are different from you Especially if I have to play 200 hours of game to get there
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2022 02:54
|
|
|
Ytlaya posted:This is not a good analogy. It's more like if [spoiler] climate change had already wiped out humans thousands of years ago, and in this time a society of sapient dog-people developed. A remnant of the destroyed human civilization then decides to kill all the dog-people to revive the extinct human race. This is basically the plot to chrono cross
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2022 03:06
|
|
|
Gologle posted:Actually, I got into a discussion about that part a month or so after the launch of Shadowbringers. Does anyone actually think that if we had actually been such a badass to contain the Light of an entire Shard that Emet would have been convinced and helped us? I argued that no, he was too far gone and there was nothing that could have changed his mind or course by that point, but the people I was talking with seemed adamant that he was amenable to persuasion, despite like...ALL the context clues in-game, and the crux of their argument was that he said he would have. The fact that most of us would answer 'no' to that doesn't change that for a lot of people, the answer is 'maybe' or occasionally 'absolutely'. I've met plenty of people who think he was being fair, reasonable, and would've changed his mind, despite all evidence otherwise. He's just sympathetic enough, and seems just reasonable enough, to appeal to people who go 'I can fix him'. But he's also got enough of what resembles a cogent point to also appeal to people who think he's actually got a point and who want to feel morally justified for siding with a villain. He's prime material for both types of villain-fucker!
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2022 03:06
|
|
|
Also an ffx event in ffxiv with Wakka would be great, it's one of the most underrepresented games in XIV overall
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2022 03:08
|
|
|
Boy if he's racist against Al Bhed for using Machina wait til he meets the Garleans
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2022 03:10
|
|
|
Ytlaya posted:Yeah this is kind of weird, because the guy is like 10000x as bad as Zenos in terms of his actual crimes. I think he's a great character, but the game seems a bit too quick to be like "eh it happened a long time ago" about the whole "bunch of genocides" issue. I think it's good that the game still views him with empathy, but it deliberately makes his crimes feel more abstract due to all the victims being effectively nameless (since I doubt the WoL would be all buddy-buddy with him if G'raha died from his gunshot wound before they could track him down at the end of Shadowbringers) so this is an interesting point about the wol's characterization: they are in fact just a little myopic. The AU version of the Heavensward patch story presented to us in DSR notes that without Haurchefant's death weighing on them, the wol would have spared Thordan out of mercy. This causes its own problems, but it's definitely an element of wol-as-character outside of any headcanon interpretation of your own protagonist. I feel like this is also where all the "i'm sorry literally who are you?" dialogue options come from when you have a deep-cut returning character
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2022 03:13
|
|
|
It is Canon that the wol is a happy-go-lucky total dumbass
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2022 03:16
|
|
|
*nods stoically*
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2022 03:19
|
|
|
Snow Cone Capone posted:Also an ffx event in ffxiv with Wakka would be great, it's one of the most underrepresented games in XIV overall Wakka should just appear as an NPC in some random town in FFXVI with no design modifications or explanation.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2022 03:20
|
|
|
My favorite thing about Wakka is how he stops being racist against the al Bhed and immediately starts being racist against the Guado instead.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2022 03:27
|
|
|
My favorite thing about Wakka is that he starts questioning his racist stance against Al Bhed when he meets a hot one. Which is probably true to life, to be honest, but does not a good character make. Ed: also he’s racist against a people with no distinguishing racial characteristics which would be like if you were racist against like Creole people but could only figure out they were Creole when they started speaking Cajun French around you. NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 03:38 on Dec 20, 2022 |
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2022 03:35
|
|
|
NieR Occomata posted:Ed: also he’s racist against a people with no distinguishing racial characteristics which would be like if you were racist against like Creole people but could only figure out they were Creole when they started speaking Cajun French around you. while this is also how racism works (note the etymology of creole itself), al bhed do have the eye pattern thing
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2022 03:39
|
|
|
Don't all Al Bhed have the green swirly eyes? It's probably why they all wear goggles and Yuna, half Al Bhed, has heterochromia
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2022 03:41
|
|
|
Mister Olympus posted:while this is also how racism works (note the etymology of creole itself), al bhed do have the eye pattern thing Ah gently caress you’re right. Either way I genuinely think Wakka is a pretty hilarious character because he’s just so, so incapable of figuring out that everyone he likes is actually Al Bhed and his racism is completely unfounded and rooted in awful religious nonsense until, again, he meets a fuckable one
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2022 03:46
|
|
|
I don't think that's fair to Wakka at all, considering that he literally never talks about Rikku's physical appearance, and also she's 16 
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2022 03:48
|
|
|
There isn't a good reason to be racist or prejudiced, Wakka having a dumb reason to be racist makes sense because no one has a good reason to be racist.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2022 03:50
|
|
|
Wait Rikku is 16 in ffx? I platinumed that on psp when it came out there, making it the like seventh or eighth time I had played it and the first time I had done literally everything there was to do, and don’t remember that tidbit.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2022 03:51
|
|
|
I don't think the character ages are anywhere but the manual for FFX, but Wakka is a good deal older than Rikku and is only interested in Lulu anyway. "He changes his mind because she's hot" is projection, it's because she's Yuna's cousin and a nice person.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2022 03:53
|
|
|
Chillgamesh posted:There isn't a good reason to be racist or prejudiced, Wakka having a dumb reason to be racist makes sense because no one has a good reason to be racist. I guess more my point is Wakka’s weird racism doesn’t really come across as having a narrative point in the story as written, especially for a character who metatextually you are supposed to like and is supposed to be Tidus’ best dude. It’s just like this weird sour note in a character who is otherwise Tidus’ meathead best friend, and it doesn’t really have a payoff or a point. Like, the game makes it clear that Wakka is wrong and that his opinions are wrong and even ridiculous considering that there’s that scene where Lulu straight up tells Tidus not to tell Wakka that Yuna’s Al Bhed because it’d Make Him Upset, but it just doesn’t really…go anywhere or have a payoff. For about half the game Wakka is racist against the Al Bhed, and for the second half he isn’t. If anything whenever they inevitably do an FFX remake, especially considering it’s the second most popular FF of all time, I hope they actually explore Wakka’s racism and arc it where it ends up having a narrative payoff or some sort of justification for existing in the first place besides “uh, Wakka is like REALLY religious”. I guess there’s the Chappu stuff but it’s just such a paper thin justification. NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 04:04 on Dec 20, 2022 |
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2022 04:01
|
|
|
Wakka is racist because the society he was raised in is racist, he stops being racist when he meets someone of differing race and realizes that they aren't bad people, as well as seeing demonstrable evidence of the people who taught him being wrong and hypocritical in their own beliefs
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2022 04:02
|
|
|
NieR Occomata posted:I guess more my point is Wakka’s weird racism doesn’t really come across as having a narrative point in the story as written, especially for a character who metatextually you are supposed to like and is supposed to be Tidus’ best dude. It’s just like this weird sour note in a character who is otherwise Tidus’ meathead best friend, and it doesn’t really have a payoff or a point. Like, the game makes it clear that Wakka is wrong and that his opinions are wrong and even ridiculous considering that there’s that scene where Lulu straight up tells Tidus not to tell Wakka that Yuna’s Al Bhed because it’d Make Him Upset, but it just doesn’t really…go anywhere or have a payoff. For about half the game Wakka is racist against the Al Bhed, and for the second half he isn’t. How does his racism not have a narrative point? One of his main roles as a character is to demonstrate how racism against the Al Bhed is widespread in Spira particularly amongst the religious. And that’s kinda an important aspect of the story. You can argue the payoff is weak but the “point” is insanely obvious.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2022 04:13
|
|
|
Rikku is 15 in FFX and I remember this because I was thirteen when the came game out, and I decided that this meant I had two more years and I would be cool enough to fight monsters.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2022 04:16
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 11, 2024 08:19 |
|
|
NieR Occomata posted:I guess more my point is Wakka’s weird racism doesn’t really come across as having a narrative point in the story as written, especially for a character who metatextually you are supposed to like and is supposed to be Tidus’ best dude. It’s just like this weird sour note in a character who is otherwise Tidus’ meathead best friend, and it doesn’t really have a payoff or a point. Like, the game makes it clear that Wakka is wrong and that his opinions are wrong and even ridiculous considering that there’s that scene where Lulu straight up tells Tidus not to tell Wakka that Yuna’s Al Bhed because it’d Make Him Upset, but it just doesn’t really…go anywhere or have a payoff. For about half the game Wakka is racist against the Al Bhed, and for the second half he isn’t. "Wakka is like REALLY religious" IS the reason Wakka is racist, tho. He's a devout Yevonite, and they preach that using machina (something the Al Bhed do on a daily basis) is blasphemy that is responsible for Sin's existence and continued attacks. He hasn't spent much time around any Al Bhed (that he knows of) and many of them speak another language exclusively so it's unknown how often he'd even been in position to communicate with them. He's spent his entire life being preached to that what the Al Bhed are doing is bad and will curse everyone on Spira to the endless death spiral of Sin and he acts upon those teachings. Every time the issue comes up, he jumps straight to Yevon's teachnings to defend his position right up to the point where he's cannot justify the assault on Home in light of everything he's seen- it's not even evidence against the teachings, but finally seeing the Al Bhed as people suffering like everyone else that finally gets through to him because, in the end, Wakka is a decent dude who was also just taught his entire life that these fuckers are the ones perpetuating the situation that causes everyone's misery and few things are as effective at teaching hate to people as scripture and faith. Like, you can't remove a character from their environment when looking at their actions- he's hardly the only character you run across who's racist against the Al Bhed, but he's (almost) the only MAJOR character, which is kind of why Wakka stands out- the rest of the party is a bunch of weirdos and outcasts, so Wakka's racism comes off feeling worse because there isn't anyone else in the party nor among the major villains who share his viewpoint, just minor named characters and idle NPC chatter to remind us that Wakka's position is the norm for most of Spira.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2022 04:25
|
|