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S.J. posted:Honestly the dog mode sucks poo poo. They could've had it spawn more of almost any other enemy type and it would've been more interesting. I would be so impossibly loving down for an oops all mutants mode called like Smackdown or Air Time or some poo poo
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Dec 21, 2022 21:36
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| # ? Jun 10, 2024 11:54 |
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why is the male judge voice so loving bad? the female judge voice is actually funny, i don't know why the male one isn't performed in the same snooty way. it's just epic purge man voice
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Dec 21, 2022 21:39
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:Of special note, with risk of fanning the flames of veteran envy:
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Dec 21, 2022 21:41
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Legit Businessman posted:Let us consult the Holy Text! (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2894619510) Thanks!
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Dec 21, 2022 21:41
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Utterly hilarious that Zealot - the melee class that lives on toughness regen - has to spend an entire feat to get +50% toughness on melee kill, and the Veteran - the ranged class that can kill anything from a mile away - just gets that built into their class for free e: Oh and it's a percentage, so I guess what this really means is:
megane fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Dec 21, 2022 |
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Dec 21, 2022 21:49
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Wouldnt be a Fatshark game without crucial info like "These enemies are considered X for damage bonus purposes" or "If you sprint you take extra damage, unless you are X class" and "X class gains invulnerability frames on slide". Goddamn, what a clownshow.
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Dec 21, 2022 21:49
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Zzulu posted:I miss the PvP aspects of Left4Dead, it was a lot of fun Vermintide's got a PvP mode so maybe it will come to Darktide, too? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rYRGu9ImjE
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Dec 21, 2022 21:54
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Chainclaw posted:Vermintide's got a PvP mode lol
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Dec 21, 2022 22:08
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Chainclaw posted:Vermintide's got a PvP mode so maybe it will come to Darktide, too? Can’t wait!!!!1
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Dec 21, 2022 22:11
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megane posted:Utterly hilarious that Zealot - the melee class that lives on toughness regen - has to spend an entire feat to get +50% toughness on melee kill, and the Veteran - the ranged class that can kill anything from a mile away - just gets that built into their class for free you could consider that the classes are balanced around these things rather than being some weird mistake. Like if zealots had the toughness and regen of veterans and vice versa the zealot would be op op and the vet would be dog.
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Dec 21, 2022 22:13
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Was the pvp mode of vermintide bad?
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Dec 21, 2022 22:14
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It doesn't exist. They're linking a video that is advertising a feature that was never implemented.
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Dec 21, 2022 22:15
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Zzulu posted:Was the pvp mode of vermintide bad? I think it’s the best possible implementation of pvp in vermintide.
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Dec 21, 2022 22:37
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Jerkface posted:you could consider that the classes are balanced around these things rather than being some weird mistake. Like if zealots had the toughness and regen of veterans and vice versa the zealot would be op op and the vet would be dog. The thing that bugs me about class balance are the shared ranged weapons. All of them have to be balanced with the veteran in mind, which I suspect makes them weaker overall when used by the zealot or psyker. You can't even transfer weapons between characters, so what's the point of shared weapon types?
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Dec 21, 2022 22:56
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Jerkface posted:you could consider that the classes are balanced around these things rather than being some weird mistake. Like if zealots had the toughness and regen of veterans and vice versa the zealot would be op op and the vet would be dog. Yeah, this is definitely the reasoning for it, but given how punishing getting shot in melee is versus how many options Vets have to avoid ranged damage even if they're drawing attention with their shooting in practice it means that Zealots are constantly walking an extremely thin tightrope where one small mistake (or unregistered hit, or getting knocked out of a dash for no discernable reason) means either they proc invuln or go down. Vet would still be extremely strong if that toughness situation was swapped, while Zealot would go from Middling to Good.
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Dec 21, 2022 22:58
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Guys i datamind the filezz and it turns out that although every other class in Vermintide 2 uses ammo but the wizard doesn't even have to worry about that? She can totally an ignore an entire category of map pickups? She can just shoot at range infinitely in a game that's mean to be about melee? AND she gets melee weapons on top of that AND a 30% damage reduction talent? Fatshark how is any of this balaaaaannncceeeeddddd? 
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Dec 21, 2022 23:03
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Zephro posted:Guys i datamind the filezz and it turns out that although every other class in Vermintide 2 uses ammo but the wizard doesn't even have to worry about that? She can totally an ignore an entire category of map pickups? She can just shoot at range infinitely in a game that's mean to be about melee? AND she gets melee weapons on top of that AND a 30% damage reduction talent? Fatshark how is any of this balaaaaannncceeeeddddd? why are psykers defaulted to female pronouns?
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Dec 21, 2022 23:06
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I think zealot is better than middling, keep in mind 2 zealots duo'd damnation difficulty and i think youd be hardpressed for 2 vets to do the same since they dont have the same survival ability and ways to control melee. The powersword is awesome but its the most OP at like malice and below, on heresy and up you dont really want to be in melee. You have dogshit dodge, stamina, and stamina recovery. You want to be positioning to avoid that if possible. I think vet is the clear cut strongest class overall and the best class in a 4 man setting but they don't have the CC that psykers have or escape\melee survivability ogryn and zealot have. If vets had 100 toughness theyd get shredded at range and melee with no way to ever escape it. Theyd have to change the sprint damage and other stuff for sure to rebalance. id rather they buff or change around some of the feats and stuff to make the other classes stronger in their identity.
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Dec 21, 2022 23:09
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I know from VT2 that pubbies can be really dumb but some of the poo poo I'm seeing just in difficulty 3 are some of the stupidest plays I've ever seen in a 4 player PVE game. Just incapable of staying even a little close to the team or shooting specials instead of spending 5 minutes attacking a normal enemy and somehow not killing them.
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Dec 21, 2022 23:09
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I don't feel like my zealot brings anything at all to the table. I guess having invulnerability every 90 seconds is nice
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Dec 21, 2022 23:13
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Zzulu posted:I don't feel like my zealot brings anything at all to the table. I guess having invulnerability every 90 seconds is nice There's a feat that let's you Push Button on maps without being knocked out of it. And makes you faster if you get hit. It's at level 20, and is competing with "regen health based on damage done during invuln" and "regain 25% of damage taken as health after a bit".
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Dec 21, 2022 23:17
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Zzulu posted:I don't feel like my zealot brings anything at all to the table. I guess having invulnerability every 90 seconds is nice you're effectively invuln in melee, can regen health, and have huge ability to control hordes. Can also get huge single target with dagger bleed.
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Dec 21, 2022 23:18
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CuddleCryptid posted:Good to hear. It was one of those bugs was made more infuriating by the fact that it only happened *sometimes*. If it was constant at least then I would be able to just stop trying. I didn't even realize that was a bug until now, I just assumed there was a game mechanic where letting peril hit 100% had a low chance of killing you instantly. 
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Dec 21, 2022 23:21
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Zephro posted:Guys i datamind the filezz and it turns out that although every other class in Vermintide 2 uses ammo but the wizard doesn't even have to worry about that? She can totally an ignore an entire category of map pickups? She can just shoot at range infinitely in a game that's mean to be about melee? AND she gets melee weapons on top of that AND a 30% damage reduction talent? Fatshark how is any of this balaaaaannncceeeeddddd? except none of the things you mentioned are hidden. it's more like if you datamined the files and found out that psykers all take 20% damage from mauler swings. "why" you might ask. also "wouldn't that be good information to know up front" you might also ask.
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Dec 21, 2022 23:22
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Mr E posted:I know from VT2 that pubbies can be really dumb but some of the poo poo I'm seeing just in difficulty 3 are some of the stupidest plays I've ever seen in a 4 player PVE game. Just incapable of staying even a little close to the team or shooting specials instead of spending 5 minutes attacking a normal enemy and somehow not killing them. I want to say it's stupidity but honestly the game does not do a great job of telling you that you are bad and need to do better. The meta elements of surviving in DT (and even VT2 imo) are difficult to intuit just from playing the game. I really think you need to be interested enough to either look up forums and youtube videos about getting better, or play with someone who shows you the ropes, or you just won't get enough insight into your play to correct fundamental errors. How is a newbie supposed to know that we wiped because they didn't help kill specials, or because they chose the wrong group of enemies to focus down out of their four possible options? Their weapon says it is strong against hordes, and he's a zealot with melee talents so why wouldn't he charge into the horde with a hundred gunners behind it? Must just be a tough map, or someone else's fault. The first time I see a pubbie running off alone to take a ton of damage, I give em a casual and friendly tip that their shield regens better the closer they are to the team. That helps a lot, though you do get oppositionally-defiant people who find a sudden, vigorous lust for death after being told that. Hell, I've been playing with my buddy since launch, and he found out just the other night that Coherence stacks with more people. He thought it was an on-or-off switch. He's got a hundred hours in the game and pulls his weight in Heresy with me. It's a fundamental survival mechanic and there was just no way he was ever going to learn it intuitively from gameplay.
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Dec 21, 2022 23:26
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Typical Pubbie posted:The thing that bugs me about class balance are the shared ranged weapons. All of them have to be balanced with the veteran in mind, which I suspect makes them weaker overall when used by the zealot or psyker. You can't even transfer weapons between characters, so what's the point of shared weapon types? it's easier to design them that way and easier to learn which weapons you like
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Dec 21, 2022 23:27
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On one hand, I feel like Eviscerator and Flamethrower isn't a great combo because they're kind of redundant with short range horde clearing. On the other, they're objectively the coolest weapons in the game, so what are you gonna do.
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Dec 21, 2022 23:28
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Sab Sabbington posted:I would be so impossibly loving down for an oops all mutants mode called like Smackdown or Air Time or some poo poo Space Jam
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Dec 21, 2022 23:28
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not to mention the level of balance schizophrenia on display with the thought process "ok, veterans secretly take double toughness damage while sprinting. but also, we'll tell everyone we're giving them double toughness. but also, we'll secretly make them recover more toughness from being in melee". what kind of loving iterative process have you got going where that's a better idea than "ok, veteran has 100 toughness like everyone else"
Cowcaster fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Dec 21, 2022 |
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Dec 21, 2022 23:29
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big cummers ONLY posted:I want to say it's stupidity but honestly the game does not do a great job of telling you that you are bad and need to do better. The meta elements of surviving in DT (and even VT2 imo) are difficult to intuit just from playing the game. I really think you need to be interested enough to either look up forums and youtube videos about getting better, or play with someone who shows you the ropes, or you just won't get enough insight into your play to correct fundamental errors. How is a newbie supposed to know that we wiped because they didn't help kill specials, or because they chose the wrong group of enemies to focus down out of their four possible options? Their weapon says it is strong against hordes, and he's a zealot with melee talents so why wouldn't he charge into the horde with a hundred gunners behind it? Must just be a tough map, or someone else's fault. I don't disagree with any of this and Fatshark is awful at actually explaining much of anything. It just doesn't help that even the things they do explain, sticking together to have shield recharge, is also something people seem to ignore. I'm finding the 3rd difficulty in this way, way, way easier than starting out Veteran in VT2 but even then I think a lot of people see that it's a "middle" difficulty and assume it's like DRG or something else and where you're expected to go earlier than they might normally. Also sucks that the 2nd difficulty is kind of boring a lot of times so there's an incentive to go up to 3 ASAP just to get any challenge.
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Dec 21, 2022 23:31
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Mr E posted:I don't disagree with any of this and Fatshark is awful at actually explaining much of anything. It just doesn't help that even the things they do explain, sticking together to have shield recharge, is also something people seem to ignore. I'm finding the 3rd difficulty in this way, way, way easier than starting out Veteran in VT2 but even then I think a lot of people see that it's a "middle" difficulty and assume it's like DRG or something else and where you're expected to go earlier than they might normally. Also sucks that the 2nd difficulty is kind of boring a lot of times so there's an incentive to go up to 3 ASAP just to get any challenge. For sure, I didn't mean to make it sound like I was countering your post, just building on it. Even when I'm trying to give newbies grace, it is frustrating
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Dec 21, 2022 23:36
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big cummers ONLY posted:I want to say it's stupidity but honestly the game does not do a great job of telling you that you are bad and need to do better. The meta elements of surviving in DT (and even VT2 imo) are difficult to intuit just from playing the game. I really think you need to be interested enough to either look up forums and youtube videos about getting better, or play with someone who shows you the ropes, or you just won't get enough insight into your play to correct fundamental errors. How is a newbie supposed to know that we wiped because they didn't help kill specials, or because they chose the wrong group of enemies to focus down out of their four possible options? Their weapon says it is strong against hordes, and he's a zealot with melee talents so why wouldn't he charge into the horde with a hundred gunners behind it? Must just be a tough map, or someone else's fault. Agreed. Bosses with shields are a perfect example of this. Nowhere does the game mention that shooting the shield is a bad idea so you get pubbies shooting it and getting shotgunned to death without ever really understanding why.
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Dec 21, 2022 23:49
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big cummers ONLY posted:For sure, I didn't mean to make it sound like I was countering your post, just building on it. Even when I'm trying to give newbies grace, it is frustrating Oh you're good! I'm just I think a bit more frustrated then usual cause I expect something like this buggy and feature wise from Fatshark but it compounds my frustration when I lose a mission due to poorly explained everything or to a server disconnect because when I'm actually playing the game it's a ton more fun than VT2, and I love VT2. Would be nice to only have to be annoyed by how the shop works or continue to baffled that the hub is a multiplayer area where you can't interact with anyone.
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Dec 21, 2022 23:53
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Sometimes I give people the benefit of the doubt and assume they are using a controller, or perhaps a trackball.
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Dec 22, 2022 00:03
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The number of stats and build-related crap in the game can also give people the impression that they (or their team) just aren’t statistically powerful enough for a difficulty instead of the fact that they are never pressing the dodge button.
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Dec 22, 2022 00:05
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There's already PvP in the game, it's called playing Ogryn and having no spatial awareness.
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Dec 22, 2022 00:10
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Kaddish posted:Sometimes I give people the benefit of the doubt and assume they are using a controller, or perhaps a trackball. I had a friend who played VT2 with a touchpad. Granted, he quit after a few days, but loving touchpad. I have another friend who is insistent on continuing to play DT on the Steam Deck. So, yeah..
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Dec 22, 2022 00:23
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megane posted:Utterly hilarious that Zealot - the melee class that lives on toughness regen - has to spend an entire feat to get +50% toughness on melee kill, and the Veteran - the ranged class that can kill anything from a mile away - just gets that built into their class for free  Well you see it is intentional that zealots have low toughness because otherwise they wouldn't be able to easily lose health to use their martyr mechanic.
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Dec 22, 2022 00:57
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Cowcaster posted:not to mention the level of balance schizophrenia on display with the thought process "ok, veterans secretly take double toughness damage while sprinting. but also, we'll tell everyone we're giving them double toughness. but also, we'll secretly make them recover more toughness from being in melee". what kind of loving iterative process have you got going where that's a better idea than "ok, veteran has 100 toughness like everyone else" If you give the veteran 100 toughness like everyone else you'd have to do something sensible like give them a class perk that say's they take 50% less damage from shooters or w/e to have them fill their niche. Fatshark tho lol
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Dec 22, 2022 00:59
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| # ? Jun 10, 2024 11:54 |
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How are you supposed to deal with Ragers as a Zealot with an Eviscerator? Nothing I do seems to stun them, so I just trade hits and hope for the best. Turns out that doesn't really work when you're fighting three of them plus a horde.
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Dec 22, 2022 01:03
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