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Kesper North posted:Those are their old Tumblr usernames That feels so right
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Dec 11, 2022 22:12
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disposablewords posted:I'm pretty sure he actually said something to that effect, or at least very strongly hinted at it, in the bits of his narration. i can't remember what's actually in the books and what's from tumblr memes now, I have to re-read it.
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Dec 11, 2022 23:01
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Extremely fair.
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Dec 11, 2022 23:31
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sebmojo posted:It's worth reading Gideon's interactions with Nona very carefully, they're not actually as mean as they feel on first read? Like Nona says, Gideon is just incredibly, unbelievably sad. Honestly, there's a bunch of stuff going on with Gideon at this point. Apparently, a good six months or so has passed since the end of Harrow the Ninth. Gideon has just lip-locked with Harrow's body only to find some other person living in it with no sign of actual Harrow. Speaking of bodies, Gideon is currently "living" in her corpse which Jod has apparently turned into something like an undead Terminator. So the chances of Gideon getting to enjoy sex with females has greatly decreased. Also she's been yanked out of her (admittedly kind of crappy Ninth background to get thrown into becoming some kind of royalty, so that's a severe change. Oh, and aside from Blood of Eden and the Resurrection Beasts some new fresh Hell has broken loose and Gideon has apparently been front and center trying to deal with. It's no wonder she's maybe less than cheerful with all that poo poo to deal with. Kesper North posted:Those are their old Tumblr usernames I have exactly zero problems believing this.
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Dec 12, 2022 00:38
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saw this picture and thought of this thread.
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Dec 12, 2022 02:12
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Entropic posted:I’ve seen a lot of fan speculation that those are not their original names and that Jod renamed them with fancier names starting with the same letters when he resurrected everyone after the apocalypse (and wiped out their memories of what he actually did) I'd have to double check but I'm pretty sure Ulysses and Titania are referred to as U--- and T--- right up until Jod renames them (and feels oh so clever and proud of himself too), so I'm pretty sure the same holds true for the others
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Dec 12, 2022 05:55
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I don't think their names were known at all, before John got ahold of them. Also are we done with spoiler tags in this thread? Might be reasonable to throw a warning in the thread title if so.
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Dec 12, 2022 06:02
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Bayham Badger posted:I don't think their names were known at all, before John got ahold of them. Yeah, it hasn’t even hit six months since release.
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Dec 12, 2022 12:37
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john probably used the names of their characters in their d&d sessions mercymorn isnt a real name but it is a dark elf priest who uses a scythe and shes dramatic enough to make one
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Dec 12, 2022 13:48
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Robo Reagan posted:john probably used the names of their characters in their d&d sessions mercymorn isnt a real name but it is a dark elf priest who uses a scythe and shes dramatic enough to make one This is my personal canon now
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Dec 12, 2022 23:51
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https://twitter.com/DiscussingFilm/status/1603752008665776134 New Alecto movie looking good.
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Dec 16, 2022 18:15
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Brave of them to do Alecto before any of the other books, but what do I know I'm not a movie exec
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Dec 17, 2022 23:21
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Kids are going to grow up loving Alecto, then get a disappointing prequel trilogy later 
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Dec 17, 2022 23:30
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Entropic posted:I’ve seen a lot of fan speculation that those are not their original names and that Jod renamed them with fancier names starting with the same letters when he resurrected everyone after the apocalypse (and wiped out their memories of what he actually did) Oh, I thought that was all but overt in Nona. All of the "G____ was all somber. and then M___ yelled at me" and so on. I interpreted it as being like someone from Stormlight where it's just white noise where the name should be, which is also not too dissimilar from Harrow scooping out the part of her brain that knew the name Gideon and jamming "Ortus" in the hole. Not to mention that he surely didn't want them remembering ANYTHING about before he was Jod. Everyone posted:some new fresh Hell has broken loose and Gideon has apparently been front and center trying to deal with. I'm very, very interested to learn more about that. I'm guessing it's more creatures like whatever Nona/Alecto was before Jod pulled her out of the river.
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Dec 22, 2022 16:48
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(Entire series spoilers) My understanding is that the weird Cronenberg-esque teeth and tongue possession creatures on Antioch and later on at the Ninth House (a) are the same things that possessed Colum Asht in GtN, (b) are distinct from the souls in the River, who are possibly the accumulated/trapped(?) remaining spirits leftover after John's genocide, and (c) according to Varun-in-Judith's warning, are entities related to or from The Tower, which "has reactivated" and "wants John Gaius," according to the decoded John chapter titles from the release and ARC copies of Nona. Given the language which Muir uses to describe the demons physically, they remind me of her description of the Stoma in the River, and we literally have zero information about what lies beyond the Stoma. I would say that from what we know, they are at odds with or at least are distinct from Resurrection Beasts (which Alecto/Nona is perhaps a cousin to, mechanistically and by origin). Again, according to Varun-in-Judith, they are entities that have some sort of score to settle, and it's not the same "Justice" as the Resurrection Beasts' justice. And in my reading, Alecto/Nona was not "pulled" from the River by John, but rather is ~1/2 of the Earth's soul that John was not able to digest or incorporate or whatever, which he then shoved into the Barbie-like creation that he created (which in my headcanon actually looks quite unhuman and strange, due to it being his first draft at creating a person).
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Dec 22, 2022 17:51
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Bayham Badger posted:(Entire series spoilers) And in my reading, Alecto/Nona was not "pulled" from the River by John, but rather is ~1/2 of the Earth's soul that John was not able to digest or incorporate or whatever, which he then shoved into the Barbie-like creation that he created (which in my headcanon actually looks quite unhuman and strange, due to it being his first draft at creating a person). Related to this I've been a little confused (big nona spoilers) I think I missed when it's revealed that Alecto is Earth's soul? Was it the part where John takes part of his rib cage to create a barbie doll? I'm also confused about the dream chapters - John refers to Harrow by name sometime early in them but keeps talking about how he "created you".. speaking to Harrow but describing how he created Alecto. John also makes a heart with J+H in it? (John + Harrow). Is it some porous thing going on where Harrow and John are both dreaming, but Harrow's soul is in the tomb so John is speaking to Alecto + Harrow at the same time?
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Dec 22, 2022 18:40
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This is somewhat speculative (both in plot interpretation and in internal logic of how soul stuff works in this setting), but I read the "dream" chapters as taking place in a bubble reality in the River (or something similar), functioning mechanistically to the way they did in Harrow the Ninth. So Harrow is interacting with Alecto's memory of John, not the real John. It's not really clear to me why he recognizes that he's speaking with Harrow, but it's also not necessarily important, as it's not really him. As for the reveal about Alecto being the Earth's soul, it's in the chapter John 1:20 (around p.407 of the Tordotcom print edition). You also need to recall that throughout those chapters, John refers to "you" when he's speaking about things that the planet does as it undergoes its climate disaster.
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Dec 22, 2022 19:37
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Bayham Badger posted:This is somewhat speculative (both in plot interpretation and in internal logic of how soul stuff works in this setting), but I read the "dream" chapters as taking place in a bubble reality in the River (or something similar), functioning mechanistically to the way they did in Harrow the Ninth. So Harrow is interacting with Alecto's memory of John, not the real John. It's not really clear to me why he recognizes that he's speaking with Harrow, but it's also not necessarily important, as it's not really him. The last sentence is the most important part The first time I read it I thought it was a human person who was sick, but that's never revealed to be the case, it's the earth that's dying.
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Dec 22, 2022 20:50
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Also the whole thing about how Lyctors take their Cavalier's name as their last name.
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Dec 22, 2022 21:10
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They're deadnames
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Dec 22, 2022 21:21
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cptn_dr posted:They're deadnames 
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Dec 22, 2022 21:30
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Bayham Badger posted:So Harrow is interacting with Alecto's memory of John, not the real John. (nona spoilers continued) I could be wildly off the mark but I thought John was actually in the dream because Alecto describes stabbing him in the chest to wake him up in the epilogue
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Dec 22, 2022 21:30
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mewse posted:(nona spoilers continued) (more Nona spoilers) It's possible and I definitely wouldn't rule it out! Part of what I love about this series is the variety of different interpretations that are (up until it's finished at any rate) totally valid. To me though, if all of that was really John, something doesn't quite sit right with me; it feels as if he's playing things extremely casually, letting his well-kept secrets out quite freely to Harrow, whose allegiances are at least somewhat suspect. That's not to say that that's not what's going on, but it scanned more logically that it was a dream version of him, or maybe part of his soul that he "hid" in Alecto, which I suppose is not 100% connected to present day John. There is also the sort of "misdirection" about characters dreaming and the dream that is happening to another character -- initially it seemed like the John chapters were Nona's dreams, but it became clear that she was actually dreaming shared memories of Nav and Harrow. That precedence of misdirection opens up to me the idea that in that final paragraph, John's just drunkenly passed out. edit to add: I suppose it depends on whether you think that John is playing 3D megachess and is enacting some huge plan, well ahead of every other player as he gets ready to do a societal reboot or whatever he has been hinting at doing, or if you think that he's made a critical error already and doesn't realize it (for example, not clear to me that he understood until very recently after the events of Harrow the Ninth that it was possible for Harrow to open the Tomb). Or if you think he really is just depressed and throwing the towel in, ready to get vengeanced by the Earth-soul he imprisoned in a Barbie body. Bayham Badger fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Dec 22, 2022 |
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Dec 22, 2022 22:40
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Bayham Badger posted:(more Nona spoilers) or maybe part of his soul that he "hid" in Alecto, which I suppose is not 100% connected to present day John. Oh.. that seems very possible because I'm fairly sure it's mentioned that if body in the tomb is killed, it would kill John. That suggests his soul is linked to Alecto and it could've been that fragment showing Harrow around the pre-history of the necromantic empire. Speaking of soul fragments, you guys (this thread) convinced me that Nona unknowingly fighting in a 2-handed stance is a Big Hint that Gideon's soul isn't intact.
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Dec 23, 2022 00:23
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I'll throw out a theory for Alecto on the things in the River: The demons in the River are the memories of all the people who used to live in the bodies that were resurrected. John brought people back to life without their memores; it was the only way he could convince people to sign onto his godhood and his insane crusade of vengeance, by erasing their entire culture and history. It's actually kind of weird, isn't it, that we know souls exist and carry memory, but that the people who used to live in those bodies are gone? Look at Pyrrha Dve, who had her memories of being P——— wiped out of her brain by John, but who is no longer actually living in that brain. Where did P——— go? Is she double dead? I suspect that P——— and A——— and the rest are in the River and are really quite angry.
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Dec 23, 2022 00:31
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Rand Brittain posted:I'll throw out a theory for Alecto on the things in the River: Does Phyrra know what P--- used to know? She plays her card pretty close to her chest but did talk about being a cop at one stage (I think). P--- would only really have her understanding of what really happened on earth (she basically died in a shootout prior to the whole cataclysm event, she may not remember much more than that), but it hasn't really come up in conversation. She does seem to have prior beef with Jod though, at least since she met Wake but probably way before it.
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Dec 23, 2022 01:42
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One theory I'm quite fond of is that some of them are renamed to names that sound like places from the nearby Canaan House. Pyrrha, being an ex-Cop, sounds like Porirua, which is where the Police College is. Mercymorn sounds quiiiiite a lot like Maymorn, which is on the Wairarapa train line. There are probably others — I reckon Augustine is a reference to this guy, but I haven't sat down and tried to figure out the rest.
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Dec 23, 2022 01:54
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cptn_dr posted:One theory I'm quite fond of is that some of them are renamed to names that sound like places from the nearby Canaan House. Pyrrha, being an ex-Cop, sounds like Porirua, which is where the Police College is. Mercymorn sounds quiiiiite a lot like Maymorn, which is on the Wairarapa train line. There are probably others — I reckon Augustine is a reference to this guy, but I haven't sat down and tried to figure out the rest. iirc Muir confirmed Mercy is named after Maymorn.
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Dec 23, 2022 01:55
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Ahh, excellent! Yeah I can't ever remember what's been publicly confirmed, or what I've just heard as whispered rumour or theory. The nice thing about John being as big a dork as Taz is that nearly every reference is a reference in-universe, and not just an intertextual joke.
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Dec 23, 2022 01:58
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mewse posted:Oh.. that seems very possible because I'm fairly sure it's mentioned that if body in the tomb is killed, it would kill John. That suggests his soul is linked to Alecto and it could've been that fragment showing Harrow around the pre-history of the necromantic empire. Don’t forget Alecto was ‘buried’ with a two-handed sword, so she presumably knew something about fighting before the soul amalgamation between the three of them started
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Dec 23, 2022 02:09
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Weird bit that makes me go hmm (NtN) Pyrrha loves redheads… Gideon Prime has red hair… Pyrrha means “red” or “red-haired” in Greek… In various stories of the Trojan War, Achilles was disguised as a woman named Pyrrha (his masculine traits and attitude excused as being brought up as an Amazon) on the island of Skyros to avoid the prophecy that he would die fighting at Troy. He has an affair with the daughter of the king, producing a son named Neoptolemos or Pyrrhos, who a Trojan seer later says had to be present in order for the Greeks to conquer Troy. In the Aeneid, the son kills the king of Troy, Priam.
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Dec 23, 2022 02:19
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Luigi Thirty posted:Weird bit that makes me go hmm (NtN) Pyrrha loves redheads… Gideon Prime has red hair… Pyrrha means “red” or “red-haired” in Greek… But how many memes are there about the Aeneid?
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Dec 23, 2022 19:05
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team overhead smash posted:But how many memes are there about the Aeneid? Considerably more after this series most likely.
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Dec 24, 2022 01:04
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My guess regarding the demons is that they're either baby RBs who haven't eaten enough planets to grow to full-size like Varun and co. did, or that they're related to the pre-Resurrection souls that haven't been brought back yet- we don't know anything about Antioch to tell why they're showing up there, but the other two places they appear in (Canaan House and the Ninth) are heavily associated with the Lyctor process and by proxy Alecto. Plus, from a thematic point it's basically certain that they have to be related to yet another of John's old mistakes coming back to eat him. Re: John and his plans- I've never gotten the impression that he has any really concrete plans, to borrow a line from another memetic work he has means and ambitions but no ability to connect them. He's good at manipulation and taking advantage of opportunities in the moment but all his flashbacks show his plans being devised by the rest of his team and everything else is him lashing out and making decisions on pure emotion with no future thought. I'm pretty sure the extent of his planning consists of (a) crush the descendants of the trillionaires that escaped his grasp to punish them for their ancestor's sins (and possibly pull the actual souls of the trillionaires back, if that's possible?) and (b) get Alecto back, and the connecting tissue consists of lots of 'get people to do that for me' and '???'. Finally, and this is less speculation and more 'this would be hilarious', but- I am desperately hoping the fanfic AUs in Harrow turn out to be foreshadowing. I'm imagining something like, at the end it turns out they can't kill John for whatever reason, so instead they banish him into a dream bubble for eternity, something whose very structure prevents all conflict and meaningful action. John blacks out, there's a chapter cut, he wakes up and the first thing he sees is an enormous Starbucks sign, smash cut to epilogue.
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Dec 24, 2022 01:20
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kvx687 posted:L2 Elon Musk finally gets his date with Iggy Azalea, only for her to ask, “is this how it happened?”
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Dec 24, 2022 09:09
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I gifted Gideon the Ninth to my teen sister, hope she likes it!
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Dec 25, 2022 05:25
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Welp having finished Nona on Christmas day I have only two things to say Cam & Pal 5eva <3 <3 <3 gently caress YOU TED FARO!!!!
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Dec 25, 2022 11:58
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loving Ted Faro. I’ve never hated someone in a video game as much as him.
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Dec 25, 2022 18:56
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Finished Nona. Given how wildly different the books are I'm looking forward to spending the first half of Alecto wondering why it appears to be set in pre-revolutionary Versailles
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Dec 25, 2022 23:14
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Now I'm looking forward to the guillotines. They better show up!
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Dec 25, 2022 23:20
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