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Watto was like a father to him!
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Jan 27, 2023 20:53
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George was right to cut it from star wars 3 itself, and if it had to be said at all it was good to put it in a novel released after 99% of people had stopped paying attention that happened to be deleted from canon shortly afterwards. But as a plot point it's similarly terrible to what JJ did really. I think star wars is well over capacity for events caused by a single evil cartoon wizard
No Mods No Masters fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Jan 27, 2023 |
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Jan 27, 2023 21:07
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Glottis posted:You're right that they don't explicitly say it, but they do show little glimpses of her parents and she makes it clear that she wants to have them return / know more about them. Then she's great at force poo poo and it's Star Wars, so of course it's some family twist, right? Just doesn't seem like the sort of fakeout I've seen in anything else JJ has done. He goes for the "yes they're even more special than you thought!" type of development. I mean, look at TROS. Fan theories for sure, but c'mon, I wouldn't call them insane fan theories based on the rest of Star Wars. Fun Fact: The word "parent" isn't spoken in TFA. Rey only refers to her family as being absent - and "family" is, of course, much broader than just the two parents. Like, it could be that her family was only ever just the two parents - but, if so, that'd be a very unusual way of referring to them. Fun Fact 2: Rey never makes any reference to not knowing who her family are, or to having forgotten what her last name is. Because of course she would know her name! She wasn't given up as a baby; she was abandoned at like six years old. She just never mentions her last name, or her home planet, or her parents' jobs, because those things never come up in conversation. It's not relevant to the events going on. It may be a mystery to the audience, but Rey is not the audience. Fun Fact 3: Rey expresses no desire to search for her parents whatsoever. Like, she doesn't put together any clues or anything. She doesn't even ask Unkar Plutt. That's because Rey's family's didn't mysteriously vanish. She (correctly) understands that she was dumped on the planet was some kind of punishment. Her parents don't want her to come home. So, from the information provided in TFA, we can reasonably conclude that Rey knows who her family are, that their identity is not terribly interesting, and that they dumped her on the planet because they were afraid of her powers. The part left open for a hypothetical sequel was simply for the newly-empowered Rey to confront these people for what they did to her. As a contrast, the nonsensical fan idea is that Rey comes from special parents and she has amnesia and she's probably related to Luke somehow even though Han and Leia don't recognize her name. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Jan 27, 2023 |
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Jan 27, 2023 21:23
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I guess in disney it's pretty arguable how much han/luke/leia even liked each other after the OT. Really we only have that han and leia's marriage was a disaster, they sent ben to school with luke, that went incredibly to poo poo of course, leia out of desperation wanted luke to help with the first order, he did a zoom call and died, saving 8/1000 people or whatever, when luke finds out han died it gets a  reaction out of him, and luke's ghost gives leia an illusory hood ornament.Maybe rey could have been related to luke and they were all just such dickheads they played it cool as part of their passive aggressive sniping? No Mods No Masters fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Jan 27, 2023 |
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Jan 27, 2023 21:35
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Doronin posted:At Disneyland, it's only post-ROTJ era (Mando through RotS), but at least they're able to mix it up a bit in that era. Unless Bob Iger intends to force through OT or PT characters, it'll be a long time before we ever see Vader in the parks again. Ah ha, that would explain it. I'm in Orlando, so I go to the Disney World version. That being said, there is an area in Hollywood Studios here that has meet and greets with OT characters, called Star Wars Launch Bay. It's FAR removed from Galaxy's Edge, like literally the opposite end of the park. But it's basically a showroom for Star Wars memorabilia, and they have some characters from all eras there like Vader, and Chewbacca, and BB-8. I just read they re-opened the character encounters. Why, yes, I do have a 6 year old daughter, why do you ask? thrawn527 fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Jan 27, 2023 |
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Jan 27, 2023 21:38
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thrawn527 posted:Ah ha, that would explain it. I'm in Orlando, so I go to the Disney World version. Oh wow, when I went a year ago it was still totally shut down. You could look through the windows in a few spots and tell they still had the props and displays just sitting there, but I just Google'd it and yeah, looks like it came back online in July. That's good to hear! I think I enjoyed the movie props and occasional Jawa sightings more than most of Galaxy's Edge. Also, fun fact, when Disney acquired Star Wars they changed how Vader can appear. Long ago during Star Wars Weekends events and Jedi Academy (RIP), Vader could ham it up and be playful in a joking way (ergo, those videos of him dancing). Then after the acquisition, they decided he needed brand guidelines so he had to be menacing and impatient 100% of the time to align fully with his canonical movie appearances. Whoever is performing that role can't deviate. Same goes for Kylo Ren.
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Jan 27, 2023 21:53
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I get that ultimately everyone is just imitating harry potter world due to its success, but if I were a theme park person I would be really skeptical of immersive experiences taking it way further than necessary with the canon bullshit. It probably should be for the enjoyment of the kids, not for pablo
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Jan 27, 2023 21:59
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Doronin posted:Also, fun fact, when Disney acquired Star Wars they changed how Vader can appear. Long ago during Star Wars Weekends events and Jedi Academy (RIP), Vader could ham it up and be playful in a joking way (ergo, those videos of him dancing). Then after the acquisition, they decided he needed brand guidelines so he had to be menacing and impatient 100% of the time to align fully with his canonical movie appearances. Whoever is performing that role can't deviate. Same goes for Kylo Ren. Yeah, this part sucks. I miss dancing Vader.
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Jan 27, 2023 22:06
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We all knew that Anakin would end up getting horrifically owned and his body destroyed, so him being Space Jesus was more about The Force being weird and not about him being extra special. The characters in the movie thought he was, but as an audience, we knew he was doomed. Rey didn't even bother to take a loss and lose a hand in her second movie like the other protagonists, much less end up like chosen one Anakin did in his third. The 2nd movie really messed up by only teasing Rey going off with Kylo and not giving her an interesting second movie arc if not a failure due to ego arc like Anakin and Luke got. Only time I can't really argue against her criticisms since her only failure, blowing up Chewie, got undone 5 minutes later! Darko fucked around with this message at 23:25 on Jan 27, 2023 |
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Jan 27, 2023 22:30
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No Mods No Masters posted:I get that ultimately everyone is just imitating harry potter world due to its success, but if I were a theme park person I would be really skeptical of immersive experiences taking it way further than necessary with the canon bullshit. It probably should be for the enjoyment of the kids, not for pablo At least the people playing the First Order-era Stormtroopers seem to be having fun. I was at Galaxy's Edge in LA this past fall and they would tease the crowd, one even gave a thumbs up to a little kid who waved at them I even got them to pose with my daughter, tho they were a little more cold because we asked them for a photo op right before some side entrance they were heading to (I guess it was break time) but hey they're stormtroopers so its all good. The lady who was playing the First Order officer definitely was much more ice-cold though. I didn't get to see any other characters when I was there, but we were only in Galaxy's Edge for about two hours in the morning and it was a weekday.
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Jan 27, 2023 22:38
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You can see how TLJ drops the ball. Like, first, TLJ introduces the twist that Rey has had amnesia this whole time. Just think about that for a second. That’s fuckin nuts! There was no indication in TFA that Rey had forgotten anything, so that’s a hell of a plot point to toss in there. Second, TLJ introduces the secondary twist that Rey has, all along, assumed that her parents were kings or superheroes or something. This is beyond just idle fantasizing, and more some kind of delusion or something - because, y’know, amnesia. She has no information one way or the other. (This is related to Rey’s curious new fixation on ‘being a nobody.’ She’s upset that she isn’t famous!) Third, Rey’s parents are dead and she knows it. There’s no possibility of ever confronting them. The fourth, ultimate twist is that Rey’s parents were uncomplicatedly evil: space-meth addicts involved in human trafficking, they sold their own daughter to a blobfish for smack! Rey’s amnesia and delusions served to block out the trauma of her early childhood abuse. Altogether, TLJ’s Rey is an entirely new character: an audience surrogate. She is a child with very limited knowledge of the plot, who indulges in stupid fan-theorizing to compensate. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Jan 28, 2023 |
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Jan 27, 2023 23:01
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Solaris 2.0 posted:At least the people playing the First Order-era Stormtroopers seem to be having fun. I was at Galaxy's Edge in LA this past fall and they would tease the crowd, one even gave a thumbs up to a little kid who waved at them When my daughter was just barely 3, the actress playing Rey took her by the hand and hid from Stormtroopers with her. Like, walked around Galaxy's Edge for about 5 minutes, sneaking around walls, hiding behind trash cans, etc. My daughter still talks about it to this day, over 3 and a half years later. She tells people about when, "Rey and I hid from the Stormtrooper bad guys." When she sees Rey in anything, she jumps up and down, yelling, "It's REY! I know her!" Like, it's a commercial as hell product, but it can be magic to a kid. And that actress that day sold it.
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Jan 27, 2023 23:18
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Well, she doesn't have space amnesia, she's in denial. She knows who her parents are but in Freudian fashion, has disavowed it, refuses to accept it in reality. It's not fully repressed, she can access the memory when pushed, but it's not something she's integrated into her thinking. I think TLJ's subtle changes to Rey are fine, and could have gone in a fruitful direction, but the triple swerve that the third film makes blasts any of those possibilities out of existence. It's a film thats ashamed of its predecessors, and thus a 2 and half hour exercise in trying to apologize to the audience and spoonfeed some nostalgia (hey look! Its Palpatine! Look over there! It's Lando! Remember them??). But TLJ made a fatal mistake in not having Rey join Kylo Ren. Everything up to that point is leading Rey to taking his hand, and she just doesn't. Why wouldn't she join him after being let down and disappointed by everyone else in her life?
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Jan 27, 2023 23:22
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Mike N Eich posted:
TRoS would have been maybe not as terrible if it’s plot was our heroes trying to save Rey from the dark side while trying to bring the light to Kylo as well. Instead of “somehow, Palpatine returned”
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Jan 27, 2023 23:26
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Mike N Eich posted:Well, she doesn't have space amnesia, she's in denial. She knows who her parents are but in Freudian fashion, has disavowed it, refuses to accept it in reality. It's not fully repressed, she can access the memory when pushed, but it's not something she's integrated into her thinking. It would also be that whole thing about being tempted by evil into thinking you can twist it to do good. The whole Gandalf One-Ring thing. Hey, if she could join with Kylo to take out Space Hitler 2.0, and feels good in him, maybe if she hangs with him she can change him and the First Order from the inside! It would also parallel Luke's whole self sacrifice mission in Jedi where he decided he only cared about redeeming his father and nothing else from that point in a different way (because she'd fail). Instead, like stated, weird people who call every female character ever a Mary Sue finally have one they can point out since they movies didn't give her a drat arc and she just succeeded in multiple different ways in 3 different movies and didn't grow or change as a person at all.
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Jan 27, 2023 23:28
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I will say, in the long view the sequels are a suffocating nostalgia exercise but even in TFA the way the OT big 3 are just completely alienated from each other is a little outre. I mean true cloying nostalgia was what they were in legends, frozen in amber as perpetual infinite BFFs
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Jan 27, 2023 23:29
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Robot Style posted:Galaxy's edge was unstuck from time from the day it opened. When the park was being designed, Colin Trevorrow's version of Episode 9 was the one they were working towards, so stuff like the model of TIE parked in the middle of town and the fully operating Resistance base were designed to lead to a movie that doesn't exist. Selling "artifacts" from the future and having characters from the past warp in for an afternoon isn't really that weird if you think of the place as this weird temporal tourist trap that exists in a dead universe and is just hawking the wares of the next timeline over. This is the closest anything has done to make me interested in the place.
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Jan 28, 2023 00:17
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TLJ's biggest L or W, I'm not sure which, is that it has a scene where the villain tries to emotionally manipulate the hero into joining him, and the audience's big takeaway is that he should have succeeded
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Jan 28, 2023 02:26
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Mike N Eich posted:Well, she doesn't have space amnesia, she's in denial. She knows who her parents are but in Freudian fashion, has disavowed it, refuses to accept it in reality. It's not fully repressed, she can access the memory when pushed, but it's not something she's integrated into her thinking. Nah - in TFA, the denial is when Rey jokes that she’s on a secret mission. That’s the childish fantasy that helps her cope with the reality that she’s been left on Tatooine to die. She keeps telling herself that, if she keeps doing what she was told, it’ll please her family and they’ll come back for her. They’ll tell her she was a good little girl, or something. If Rey’s entire family is dead, and she knows it, then her belief that they’re going fly down in a spaceship some day and give her a hug is straight-up insanity. And it’s not just that, because it would mean she’s also mentally blocked out her last name and stuff, constructing an entire new identity for herself. [Standing in front of a gravestone reading “RIP Beth and Marty Solana, Parents of Rey. You will never be forgotten.”] “I’m Rey Nobody, secret princess! I hope my parents hurry up and take me back to the castle.”
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Jan 28, 2023 02:44
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2house2fly posted:TLJ's biggest L or W, I'm not sure which, is that it has a scene where the villain tries to emotionally manipulate the hero into joining him, and the audience's big takeaway is that he should have succeeded Because if this is really about a Star-War, then she should have? Like if Space Hitler honestly invites you to come to rule the Space Reich with him, then you say YES, because even if you hate Space Hitler, you can: - feed information to your team as a spy. Surely the plans for Death Star IV would be valuable intel! - give him some bad ideas to fail harder - try to take him out in a way that looks like an accident, and inherit his empire - get him to simply stop shooting at your friends RIGHT NOW, which will at least allow them to escape their current predicament. The big goal is obviously to just reform the empire from the inside, because if Ren was being honest about ruling together (and I believe he was), then you'll be able to do things that lead to less suffering in the war pretty much immediately, or at least start some negotiations. Logically if she wants the Rebels to win you would simply accept his offer. This does not betray anything. The Rebels pretend to be Imperials at some point in most of the movies, so putting on the Imperial Hat to gain an advantage is not being evil in any sense. This is not like the Emperor asking Luke to kill his dad on the spot - Kylo Ren had no specific action he needed Rey to take other than agreeing to join him. She refused him because she is a boring character that will always take the most boring option. Mr. Grapes! fucked around with this message at 02:51 on Jan 28, 2023 |
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Jan 28, 2023 02:48
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Mr. Grapes! posted:She refused him because she is a boring character that will always take the most boring option. I mostly agree of course. But I will say her decision to let palpatine possess her body in star wars 9, or at least take a course of action where that was a total possibility if the rules lawyering didn’t break her way, is a little interesting. Perhaps she was simply bored
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Jan 28, 2023 02:57
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Mr. Grapes! posted:Like if Space Hitler honestly invites you to come to rule the Space Reich with him, then you say YES
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Jan 28, 2023 03:05
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If Darth Vader honestly invites you to come to rule the galaxy as father and son with him,
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Jan 28, 2023 03:18
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F.D. Signifier posted:Yo what the gently caress It's a lot easier to bring him down when you have the office next door.
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Jan 28, 2023 03:18
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2house2fly posted:If Darth Vader honestly invites you to come to rule the galaxy as father and son with him, I guess the difference is that Luke Skywalker seemed like a real character with strong convictions and opinions, while Rey is something of a blank slate for three entire movies so her just saying "whatever sure" wouldn't really be out of character for her, while it would be for Luke.
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Jan 28, 2023 03:20
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Mr. Grapes! posted:I guess the difference is that Luke Skywalker seemed like a real character with strong convictions and opinions, while Rey is something of a blank slate for three entire movies so her just saying "whatever sure" wouldn't really be out of character for her, while it would be for Luke. More than that, Rey’s ‘blankness’ means she actually has many good reasons to join Kylo and none to the contrary. The only real counterpoint is that she doesn’t want Leia to die because she hopes Leia will become her surrogate mommy.
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Jan 28, 2023 04:21
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I guess you could say rey imprinted on han and was still mad about the killing him thing. She cared about that more than luke did, that's for sure
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Jan 28, 2023 04:28
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Kylo killed Space Hitler 2.0 after the same elevator speech Luke gave to Vader with the same result. Then AFTER, he's like, let's fix this together. Meanwhile there are 5 resistance ships left. Of course you agree and work from the inside. You could still have a climax where they pop off to wherever, but once ship stays to pursue the Rebels from Kylo or not and they overcome it. Dammit, these movies are making me write fanfiction.
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Jan 28, 2023 04:42
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How did she even get off the ship?
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Jan 28, 2023 04:44
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It's stated that she stole snoke's escape craft. Whatever, it's far from the worst way characters contrivedly move around in the film
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Jan 28, 2023 04:46
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No Mods No Masters posted:I guess you could say rey imprinted on han and was still mad about the killing him thing. She cared about that more than luke did, that's for sure But Kylo explains the Han murder thing, halfway into the movie, and Rey is like "yeah, that makes sense". Han was trying to manipulate Kylo into joining the lovely Resistance, and was under an implicit threat of death if he refused. Kylo then points to the fact that Luke had already tried to murder him for questioning Jedi orthodoxy. These people may be friendly, but they are not to be trusted. "You can't stop needing [the people who treat you like garbage]. It is your greatest weakness."
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Jan 28, 2023 04:50
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Darko posted:How did she even get off the ship? She pulled a Leia and "Mary Poppins"'d her rear end outta there.
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Jan 28, 2023 06:01
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I think the worst one is probably finn and rose teleporting back to the base after their midair collision directly in front of infinity enemies on crait. But finn and rose flying from snoke's flagship to the crait base faster than the first order somehow is pretty lame as well
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Jan 28, 2023 06:07
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2house2fly posted:TLJ's biggest L or W, I'm not sure which, is that it has a scene where the villain tries to emotionally manipulate the hero into joining him, and the audience's big takeaway is that he should have succeeded Its way more interesting than anything we got
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Jan 28, 2023 06:22
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Mike N Eich posted:Its way more interesting than anything we got Basically TLJ keeps threatening to be a much more interesting movie and then going 'psych!' and reverting to cliche even when it makes far less sense to.
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Jan 28, 2023 08:18
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2house2fly posted:TLJ's biggest L or W, I'm not sure which, is that it has a scene where the villain tries to emotionally manipulate the hero into joining him, and the audience's big takeaway is that he should have succeeded i hate when bad things happen in movies
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Jan 28, 2023 08:39
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You know what I just realized when I was parsing all of this Rey's secret parents talk Unless I'm mistaken, there isn't a single flashback in the entire OT or PT? Its basically all playing out in approximate chronological order, and while people may allude to the past or have visions of the future vis magic Jedi power, the editing never takes us there. On the flipside, the ST is lousy with flashbacks. A lot of it is about Rey's parents, but Ep IX even opens with a flashback. Maybe that's why they feel so tonally different. I don't know where I'm going with this but that was a bad choice
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Jan 28, 2023 08:41
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Yeah, the flashbacks are a big part of them really not understanding Star Wars.
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Jan 28, 2023 09:53
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Yeah, the flashbacks are a big part of them really not understanding Star Wars. Andor has flashbacks. The issue is that the stuff that's flashed back to in the sequel trilogy sucks poo poo.
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Jan 28, 2023 10:58
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Anakin has a vision of Padme dying onscreen in episode 3, that's the only time I can remember tho
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Jan 28, 2023 14:30
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