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AI writing is going to have the same 99% problem as a ton of other big data goals (self driving machines being the biggest to come to mind) but will probably seem better because even people who should know better (looking at you, Kevin Roose of the NYTimes) doesn't have the faintest clue about how AI chatbots work and will keep ascribing them qualia when absolutely none exists.Tiny Timbs posted:If an AI can get me 50% of the way to a passable entry of fiction and my edits make it legally indistinguishable from any other effort then there’s no argument to be had. It’s done. Things will be easier for publications that only deal with more unique pieces of short fiction but even then I don't think a blanket ban on AI assistance is going to be feasible long-term. This is the bigger question, what happens when a human mind is there to fill in that last step LLMs can't quite get on their own.
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Feb 21, 2023 04:36
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WarpDogs posted:Arguing over the ethics and artistic merit of AI will be dominating our lives for probably the next decade or more, but we might not even "reach" those types of arguments for a long time because first and foremast we have to deal with the logistics and volume problems being introduced. We'll just have to wait for a provably irreversible phase transition to occur in the reputon glass and make sure we're not being spoofed by ephemeral stochastic nucleation.
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Feb 21, 2023 04:38
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Ccs posted:
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Feb 21, 2023 06:46
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:That's a lot of Gaiman unfortunately. Sometimes he writes with the lightning and sometimes with the lightning bug. Ngl, nothing he's done since Sandman and Good Omens has really clicked with me. But that's fine; he gave us Sandman and Good Omens.
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Feb 21, 2023 08:58
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habeasdorkus posted:This is the bigger question, what happens when a human mind is there to fill in that last step LLMs can't quite get on their own. This has already happened/is actively happening in self publishing. Authors are pretty split on this right now. Some are using it as a brain storming tool. Some are using it to churn out prompts when they get stuck during writing to help themselves get unstuck. The ones which are getting it to churn out large passages of prose that they then subsequently tidy up and publish have figured out ways to get it to retain details and coherency across chunks of several thousand words. Others are adamant the tech is too slow and cumbersome in its current form and don't use it because it actually slows down their process. Others are only not using it because of fears that Amazon bans AI generated content. Others are manually going through to line edit the AI generated text to avoid being auto banned. Still others anticipate Amazon are gonna come out with their own version. (Me, I'm in that camp, I think eventually the majority of readers who read purely for tropes are gonna jump onto Amazon one day and find an AI novel generator instead of a search bar and they will just type in whatever mixed bag of tropes they want and they won't care about originality or a distinctive voice or prose as long as it hits all the tropes they asked for.) anilEhilated posted:I'm not sure how much it fits the whole "damsel in distress" stereotype since a rescue of sorts happens, but Marya is a survivor and she definitely does things on her own. Also, if it helps (ending spoiler for the relationship) they don't get back together. The sequels are also a more action-packed and focus on the other characters more. I have now read the sequels Arm of the Sphinx and The Hod King and enjoyed both a lot more than Senlin Ascends. The multi POV treatment is interesting because instead of interleaving them, Bancroft opts to tell each POV's arc in a single continuous part and when you get to the next part, the narrative rewinds to the split point again and again to pick up the next POV. Also props to Bancroft for writing in menopause in a way that isn't weird. If you want fantasy adventuring with older POV characters this is a pretty good pick.
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Feb 21, 2023 10:57
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I still find it quite difficult to imagine AIs writing fiction that’s good enough to be competitive with anything halfway decent, particularly at novel length. I can buy stuff that hangs together for short stretches, but it’s pacing, character/plot development, dialogue (especially differentiated by character) and structure that I have trouble seeing in the near future. Academic writing and code (I know a lot of programmers using it) seems quite plausible because synthesising information with a very solid language/grammar engine is not so large a step beyond what we already have, and that’s where I see the examples of useful stuff. I wonder if it’s a mistake to assume this stuff can just get iteratively better from here endlessly when we’ve seen a lot of expectations around AI (eg self driving cars) go askew in other fields. I mean, sure, go far enough in the future and anything’s possible. But I do think we get automatically quite worried about stuff that people do that AI might be good at (not all that often really) whereas I think looking at things AI does poorly but we use it for anyway (eg face recognition for drone strikes and law enforcement) is probably where the real danger is.
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Feb 21, 2023 11:04
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Blamestorm posted:I still find it quite difficult to imagine AIs writing fiction that’s good enough to be competitive with anything halfway decent, particularly at novel length. I think you underestimate how low the bar needs to be for something to be palatable enough for mass market consumption. Places like Amazon do not give an iota of a gently caress about who or where or how goof something is. If a few million people want to buy it, they will sell it.
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Feb 21, 2023 13:39
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People chow down Kindle originals and Brandon Sanderson is one of the most prolific and popular authors working in the genre today. I'd imagine within five years AI will be able to produce that level of rote fiction even if none of it is any good
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Feb 21, 2023 13:57
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No Dignity posted:People chow down Kindle originals and Brandon Sanderson is one of the most prolific and popular authors working in the genre today. I'd imagine within five years AI will be able to produce that level of rote fiction even if none of it is any good I think this is unfair on Sanderson as much as his stuff doesn't really do it for me. Now the LitRPG crowd though... If you told me Arcane Ascension was written by chatGPT i wouldn't even bat an eye.
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Feb 21, 2023 14:05
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A not insignificant part of why people read popular things is because they know someone else is reading it and they want to be able to talk about it. Like, community is a point of popularity. We'll surely get to a point where dickheads are using AI to write stories, but I find it hard to see people long term continuing to care about and want to talk about stories that are soullessly generated by an algorithm. It's like AI art; you can look at some of it and go "oh that's neat" but when there's no intent behind it it winds up being hollow and pointless - and I find it hard to imagine any author (even Sanderson) maintaining a community/a current fanbase for long after it comes out that they're just rebranding AI fiction. Like, will an AI eventually be able to write a completely coherent novel? Yeah. Will people want to discuss it? The first two, yeah. Will a community form around algorithmically developed personalized content? Not to any degree that matters. It's gonna loving suck to be a writer for a while after that first AI novel comes out though. I mean, it already loving sucks, but. Worse.
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Feb 21, 2023 14:21
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Reminds me of the show Carol and Tuesday, except for writing instead of AI songs. Ironically music is the one thing that has some protection from AI because the RIAA lawyers jumped on it. Visual art and writing doesn't really share the same concentrated power. Already publishing houses can't do poo poo to Amazon.
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Feb 21, 2023 14:34
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Wungus posted:Will a community form around algorithmically developed personalized content? Not to any degree that matters. The state of popular film would get to differ. At this point, the biggest money making films are the same thing with the talking heads swapped. The new DnD movie is a Marvel movie with a fantasy cost of paint. And I'm sure people will devour it. If an AI generates a formulaic novel that hangs on the young adult tropes ala Hunger Games. Once you feed enough of those in there it will eventually generate a 9 books series where the main character and love interest will avoid actually having a relationship for 400k words and people will devour it. Web serials already blow through a million words with nothing happening and the fatigue can't be that bad if the author is making it to a million words. Will AI fully replace the novel that explores deeper themes? Nah. Will it replace the entirety of the bodice ripper romance novels? Probably?
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Feb 21, 2023 14:54
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Carrier posted:I think this is unfair on Sanderson as much as his stuff doesn't really do it for me. Now the LitRPG crowd though... If you told me Arcane Ascension was written by chatGPT i wouldn't even bat an eye. LitRPG would actually be a lot harder for a language model to generate, since stats and stat tracking isn’t part of the model itself. Getting a Sanderson novel out of GPT-3 is a lot more likely than getting a sensible LitRPG work.
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Feb 21, 2023 16:08
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we're doing a reverse Blindsight on ourselves. Instead of aliens attacking us because they view our endless chatter as information warfare, we've trained a computer to generate endless chatter and are going to drown in it
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Feb 21, 2023 16:19
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I'm imagining my former employer, a government agency, trying to stem a tide of AI generated false requests and lol, lmao
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Feb 21, 2023 16:29
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Carrier posted:I think this is unfair on Sanderson as much as his stuff doesn't really do it for me. Now the LitRPG crowd though... If you told me Arcane Ascension was written by chatGPT i wouldn't even bat an eye. I tried that series recently and the books feel like someone going extra hard on their narrative-focused LP of a video game.
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Feb 21, 2023 19:01
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Welp, not ai related but I just found out that the new battle mage farmer book comes out tomorrow. Yay! \ /
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Feb 21, 2023 19:31
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We should've listened to the la li lu le lo
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Feb 21, 2023 20:10
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Wungus posted:
have you read this short story yet? Eager Readers in Your Area! https://archiveofourown.org/works/41112099 They can just setup ai forums to discus the work and make injokes.
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Feb 21, 2023 20:57
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ianmacdo posted:They can just setup ai forums to discus the work and make injokes. How do we know they haven't already?
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Feb 21, 2023 21:48
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Evil Fluffy posted:I tried that series recently and the books feel like someone going extra hard on their narrative-focused LP of a video game. Yeah I just finished Kaiju Battlefield Surgeon and while it was generally well written there's just no way to constantly refer to game mechanics narratively that doesn't sound awkward and end up grating. Luckily, every book that's ever been written in the genre is available on Kindle Unlimited so I didn't have to spend any money to figure that out.
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Feb 21, 2023 21:58
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Blamestorm posted:I still find it quite difficult to imagine AIs writing fiction that’s good enough to be competitive with anything halfway decent, particularly at novel length. I can buy stuff that hangs together for short stretches, but it’s pacing, character/plot development, dialogue (especially differentiated by character) and structure that I have trouble seeing in the near future. Ah, but have you considered having some Star Wars nouns in it and an official licence? It'll outsell all competitors. For academia - it's not capable of synthesising an original interpretation except by random combination of existing papers it has been taught. It basically has no value except for essay shaped products for submission the night before they're due. Strategic Tea fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Feb 21, 2023 |
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Feb 21, 2023 23:43
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zoux posted:Yeah I just finished Kaiju Battlefield Surgeon and while it was generally well written there's just no way to constantly refer to game mechanics narratively that doesn't sound awkward and end up grating. Luckily, every book that's ever been written in the genre is available on Kindle Unlimited so I didn't have to spend any money to figure that out. Yeah, I'm like 75% of the way through this and although it's still readable, it feels like everything good about the book is straining against the restrictions of the genre. Like it will drop some big emotional payoff or fragment of dystopian body horror and then the next scene is an extended shopping and levelling up sequence. There's a weird tension because the story is about someone trapped in a videogame, so the narrator will often roll his eyes at "another typical videogame quest", and it's implied that the original developers were kind of lovely edgelords (e.g. that one of the enemies literally wears dead babies like hermit crabs wear shells). But at the same time the author clearly is reveling in all the videogame stuff and the ultraviolence too.
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Feb 21, 2023 23:51
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ianmacdo posted:
Reddit already has a subreddit simulator where markov chain-bots trained on user comments argue with each other. The conversations you'd get from more advanced programs might honestly lose some humor in becoming more coherent.
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Feb 22, 2023 01:05
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withak posted:How do we know they haven't already? I'll have you know that every poster here is Graydon Saunders lovingly handcrafting each and every post there's a big difference and you can tell
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Feb 22, 2023 02:04
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Someone was talking about Catholic adjacent conspiracy thrillers. Mumbo Jumbo is that I've found. Pretty neat book, buy physical, there's many pictures.
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Feb 22, 2023 03:01
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I'm 3/4ths of the way through Matt Dinniman's Dungeon Crawler Carl. It shares myriad similarities with Kaiju, but on the whole I think it's funnier, better paced, and hides the state better. It could almost pass as a non LitRPG novel because the focus on stats so far hasn't been autistic and it's usually played for laughs
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Feb 22, 2023 05:22
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'Hasn't been autistic'?
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Feb 22, 2023 05:26
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You know, a pejorative for obsessive fixation on extraneous details.
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Feb 22, 2023 05:37
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Apparently DCC is a pretty big hit. Dude's making money hand over fist. Think there's even a movie or anime that's been green lighted for it.
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Feb 22, 2023 05:50
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MartingaleJack posted:You know, a pejorative for obsessive fixation on extraneous details.
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Feb 22, 2023 05:55
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MartingaleJack posted:You know, a pejorative for obsessive fixation on extraneous details. What a cool and not at all lovely thing to say
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Feb 22, 2023 06:21
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Dude I'm fully retarded like 50% of the time because I was exposed to sarin gas in Iraq. Wish I was making that up. I don't know how not to "make it weird". That's kind of ablist, bro. But seriously Dungeon Crawler Carl puts a grin on my face. It's not "great" literature, but it's got some honestly great scenes. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) MartingaleJack fucked around with this message at 07:37 on Feb 22, 2023 |
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Feb 22, 2023 06:23
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MartingaleJack posted:Dude I'm fully retarded like 50% of the time because I was exposed to sarin gas in Iraq. Wish I was making that up. I don't know how not to "make it weird". That's kind of ablist, bro. But seriously Dungeon Crawler Carl puts a grin on my face. It's not "great" literature, but it's got some honestly great scenes. It's not ableist to tell you that you said something uncool. That's lovely to say.
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Feb 22, 2023 12:35
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DCC is also way the gently caress less gross than Kaiju Battlefield Surgeon. Still a bit gross, mind you, just not "literally has a forward that begs his mom not to read this one" gross.
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Feb 22, 2023 12:53
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I don't think the guy who wrote "Assault on Balls Deep" can write without making it weird, no
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Feb 22, 2023 13:53
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MartingaleJack posted:I'm 3/4ths of the way through Matt Dinniman's Dungeon Crawler Carl. It seems like some effort was made to edit this and as a result a normal human being could pick it up and read it.
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Feb 22, 2023 14:56
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RDM posted:I'm going to give this my highest praise for a KU book. That alone puts it in the top 1%. The only thing that bothered me a little bit was the "homage" to Hitchhiker's Guide at the beginning.
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Feb 22, 2023 16:14
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MartingaleJack posted:That alone puts it in the top 1%. The only thing that bothered me a little bit was the "homage" to Hitchhiker's Guide at the beginning. I'm guess that "homage" in this case means "wholesale theft from" Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
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Feb 22, 2023 16:47
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The monkey's paw can jerk you off. But first it gives you a monkey dick, or monkey pussy
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Feb 22, 2023 17:13
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