Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
(Thread IKs: weg, Toxic Mental)
 
  • Post
  • Reply
appropriatemetaphor
Jan 26, 2006

Rev. Bleech_ posted:

account registered in Feb 2022, generic truck dude profile pic, literally only posts about one thing, contributes nothing to anyone

ah yes

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

HonorableTB
Dec 22, 2006
A good write up on the failures of Russia's satellite networks:

https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/a43444628/why-russian-satellites-are-failing-in-ukraine/

Popular Mechanics posted:

During the Cold War, Russia became the first nation to launch a satellite, and then a human being, into outer space. With more than 160 Russian satellites in orbit today, every Ukrainian city, tank, and howitzer should be exposed to the unrelenting gaze of orbital cameras.

But that’s not happening on the battlefield. While Ukraine’s military is reaping enormous benefits from commercial communications and photographic satellites, Russia is only getting meager rewards from its huge investment in military spacecraft, according to a Western expert.

“The Ukrainian army can use commercial systems to obtain images of any area in high detail at least twice a day in favorable weather conditions, whereas the Russian army can get an image of the same area approximately once in two weeks,” Pavel Luzin, a senior fellow at the Jamestown Foundation, wrote in a recent article for Riddle. In addition, “existing Russian satellites provide seriously inferior quality of imagery vis-à-vis American and European commercial satellites.”

GPS satellites have enabled Ukraine’s American-made HIMARS guided rockets to accurately target Russian supply depots and headquarters. SpaceX’s Starlink—which uses numerous low earth orbit satellites to provide connectivity through backpack-sized ground stations—became indispensable for Ukrainian military communications.

Yet despite a huge array of hypersonic and other guided missiles and smart bombs, Russia has not been able to conduct precision strikes. “Because of a lack of reconnaissance capability, Russia is not able to use its high-precision weapons in the planned way,” Luzin told Popular Mechanics. “That’s why Russia started its campaign of missile terror against the cities and civil population of Ukraine.”

The problem isn’t a lack of orbital hardware. Russia has more than 160 satellites in orbit, of which more than 100 are military systems, according to Luzin. These include 25 GLONASS GPS satellites, 47 communications satellites, seven Liana oceanic electronic reconnaissance satellites, two Persona optical reconnaissance satellites, as well as assorted missile detection, topographic mapping, and experimental spacecraft.

What Russia does lack is the right mix of satellites, as well as the ground systems and procedures to receive and disseminate data to those who need it. For example, the Liana spacecraft are designed to track ships. But Russia has always been a land rather than a naval power, and being able to track U.S. aircraft carriers in the Pacific doesn’t help win a ground war in Ukraine.

Realizing that it was falling behind in the new Space Race, Russia opted in the early 2000s not to build spy satellites. “The Kremlin decided to start with the satellite navigation system GLONASS and communication satellites that rely on Western space electronic components,” Luzin said. “The reconnaissance satellites were the much harder task for the Russian space industry, and it turned to this task just in the early 2010s.”

But the imposition of Western sanctions after the 2014 annexation of Crimea hampered investment in reconnaissance systems. The result is that Russia has just two optical intelligence (photographic) satellites in orbit now. Two new Resurs satellites have been delayed until at least 2024, while three Russian commercial satellites—which could be used for military imagery—may no longer be functional.

While the exact number of U.S. spy satellites is classified, the National Reconnaissance Office planned at least seven launches in 2022. The agency is now contracting with commercial companies for hyperspectral satellite imagery that can detect objects through multiple bands of light.

It isn’t just satellites that are the problem. Troops lack satellite communications terminals, which only exacerbates the Russian military’s rigid and compartmentalized command system. While the GLONASS GPS satellites work, users lack terminals and electronic maps to utilize satellite navigation.

In 2020, Luzin estimated that Russia was spending $1.6 billion per year on its military space program. Yet funding for future Russian satellites is uncertain. The Ukraine war will divert resources to tanks and missiles. Meanwhile, Western sanctions will deprive Russian spacecraft of sophisticated components.

Nor is turning to commercial satellites—as Ukraine successfully did—an option. “Russia’s political economy model makes private efforts in outer space just impossible,” Luzin said. “Private business and technology initiatives are considered political threats.”

The West can also take steps to prevent the revival of Russia’s military space program. “It is necessary to prevent Russia’s access not only to space-grade electronics, but also advanced industrial equipment,” said Luzin. “Also to commercial satellite services using rogue firms in Asia and Europe.”

As one of the two original spacefaring nations, it is not realistic to assume that Russian satellites will disappear from the heavens. But the glory days of Sputnik and Soyuz seem to be gone.

“I don’t think Russia is capable of developing its military space capabilities now,” Luzin said.

MrQwerty
Apr 15, 2003

LOVE IS BEAUTIFUL
(づ ̄ ³ ̄)づ♥(‘∀’●)

quote:

“I don’t think Russia is capable of developing its military space capabilities now,”
That's a real death-knell statement.

Shaman Tank Spec
Dec 26, 2003

*blep*



Taerkar posted:

This isn't quite as outlandish as you might think. The UK was a not-quite-ally of Japan and had been building ships for the Japanese for a number of years. It wasn't impossible that Japan could have commissioned torpedo boats from British shipyards and had crews there to take command of them.

That is a fair point, but considering everything else about the Voyage of the Damned I don't think we need to hand it to them. They also repeatedly reported taking torpedo hits, which ... if you're hit by a torpedo, you know you're hit by a torpedo by the 50 foot water spout flying up off your side and your boat quite probably breaking in half.

Someone might be sitting there going "hey, these Russian sailors don't sound very good" and you would be right, because most of them weren't sailors. The Russians, having had their real navy get blockaded in port halfway across the world, needed a second navy and did the Putin thing of just press ganging random dudes from the more ethnic portions of the empire and called them sailors despite most never having been on ships. Because this isn't dumb enough, they then put them on the few military ships they had, commandeered a bunch of other pleasure yachts from Russian nobles and called it the Russian Second Fleet, and then sent it halfway across the world to relieve their actual navy.

The Russian Second Fleet was so awful that the commander of the Fleet (who was an actual sailor) spent so much time yelling and cursing at them that his pet parrot also started cursing at everyone. He also spent a lot of time throwing his binoculars off board in sheer frustration, which is why they had taken the precaution of bringing along several dozen replacement binoculars for him.

(By the time they finally got there to be sunk immediately, their first fleet had already been sunk weeks ago)

Shaman Tank Spec fucked around with this message at 07:48 on Apr 1, 2023

zone
Dec 6, 2016

https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1642041985207877633
And into the jail you go, "holy" man.

Shaman Tank Spec
Dec 26, 2003

*blep*



Helsingin Sanomat, Finland's biggest newspaper, interviewed a researcher at our Institute of Foreign Policy about what Finland joining Nato means for Finland, and for Nato.

Author: Pekka Hakala
Link: HS.fi



Helsingin Sanomat posted:

Finland is an exceptional new Nato country: "we are prepared for all out war"
According to a researcher, Finland is a bigger military power than its size indicates

Finland's national defence will be strengthened as the Nato application left in last May is about to be blessed, with Turkey's parliament being the last Nato country to approve Finland's application.

The law approved by Turkey's parliament still requires president Recep Tayyip Erdogan's signature, after which the ratification documents will be sent to Washington and Finland's flag will go up the pole at Nato headquarters in Brussels.

At the same time the union of the existing 30 member countries will be strengthened significantly. Finland, who have kept up their so called "Nato option" for 28 years, and have prepared for a Russian attack for decades, is an obviously welcome partner for Nato.

"Finland is a unique new Nato member in that we have constantly been preparing for an all out war", says researcher Jyri Lavikainen at the Institute of Foreign Policy. "Nato has faced the same threat since 1945, but since the 1990s the organization has emphasized its role as crisis management."

"In Finland our national defence has been maintained all the time systematically, and since the Cold War and its limitations ended, we have acquired precisely the kind of weaponry the war in Ukraine has proven to be necessary", Lavikainen continues. "Finland is militarily bigger than it's size."

Finland has relatively few professional soldiers, but our war time reserve of 260 000 soldiers is large in the European scale. According to its last reports, our field artillery operates 1690 guns, rocket launchers or heavy mortars, which makes our field artillery the biggest in Western Europe.

The air force's F-35 purchase increased Finland's military spending in our 2022 budget to 2,2% of our GNP, when Nato's requirement is two percent.

Of the current member countries only seven can beat this. "It's not just about a large reserve, a modern air force or a strong artillery corps, but a culture of waging war", Lavikainen says. "We can arm our strong reserve, and we have trained it."

Finland's annual military spending of 5 or 6 billion EUR is only about 1/200 of the Nato countries' combined military spending. In 2021 the United States had a defense budget of 811 billion dollars, or roughly 70% of the military union's combined budgets, say Nato's statistics.

Direct Nato payments and fees don't give the full picture, because the alliance's defense is based on the national armed forces of its members.

Finnish officers have repeated the term "Nato compatibility" in all possible military purchases since the 90s, but in the end the Finnish Defence Forces' efforts might not be decisive from a Nato perspective.

Along with Finland's membership, Nato gets (including sea borders) 1344 kilometers of new border directly against Russia. Before this, including Lithuania's and Poland's borders at Kaliningrad, a combined 1140 kilometers of shared border space with Russia. Is the extension of this shared border a good thing or bad?

"Depends on how you look at it", Lavikainen says. "We have taken care of our own defense. And Russia has never built proper military infrastructure on the Finnish border. At Raatteentie we all saw what happens, when a military column tries to advance along a forest road."

During the Winter War, the Soviet 163. division was strengthened in January 1940 by the 44th Ukrainian Elite Division, and both were destroyed at Raatteentie.

The commander of the Ukrainian forces, Aleksei Vinogradov (born in Tver, North West of Moscow) was executed for this by order of dictator Josef Stalin on the 11th of January 1940, at Uhtua, about 5 kilometers east of the current border.

Indeed, currently there aren't too many Russian forces beyond the current border. In Kamenka, at Uudenkirkko's Kaukjärvi, resides the 138th Infantry Brigade, who took part last February in the failed attempt to take over Kiyv. The next base going north is as far as Alakurtti, at Salla's height. Why so?

"I think it's a question of priorities and resources", Lavikainen estimates. "They consider their military placements holistically, and troops had been concentrated near Ukraine, the Caucasus and south of St. Petersburg even before the invasion in Ukraine."

"For instance at the Chinese border they have practically nothing, even though the Russians probably don't have any misguided fantasies about that, and certainly aren't naive. They just don't have endless resources."

The Finnish Defence Forces' efforts, and our tax payers' contributions to national defence aren't the be all, end all, however.

"Finland is important to Nato simply by existing", Lavikainen points out. "Russia will have a tough time planning operations in the Baltic, for instance, without considering what Estonia's ally to the north might be up to."

"Northern Europe's defence will be organized in a whole new way after Finland's Nato membership. What that way is, is probably still finding its final form, but it will certainly include aspects that weren't possible prior to this."

The talk of combined Nordic air forces is a good example of this new way of thinking, says Lavikainen. "Or consider military exercises in the Cap of the North, where Norwegian forces will be able to just move over to Finland's side, and they will be able to be supplied from Finland, when national borders don't matter."

Finland's Nato joy won't be complete, until Sweden is also in the military alliance. From Nato's perspective a united north and control over the Baltic Sea are crucial, much like southern Sweden is for defending the Baltics. From Finland's perspective Sweden is an important partner simply due to supply routes. Sweden's strong military industry also complements Finland's reservist army very well.

Other than this, Sweden's defence policies don't get a very high grade from Lavikainen.

"Their defence policies have been completely misguided, particularly giving up on conscription in 2009, right after the war in Georgia. That was pure blindness! Now they are rebuilding their defence capabilities, but that will take years. It's easier to break down than to build up."

The partnership with Sweden is regardless crucial for Finland.

"Getting Sweden into Nato will be Finland's first job after joining the alliance", Lavikainen says.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA
There's nothing quite like owning the libs by, uhh... *checks notes* reinvigorating and expanding the defensive military alliance set to thwart our imperialist aggression? That can't be right...

It's interesting to watch Western Rashists drop a lot of the pretenses they'd previously put forward as they grow increasingly bitter with the realization of Putin's impotence. A lot of their Twitter sphere had kept up some public facade to not scare off the normies, but the most vile, laughable Rashist propaganda is increasingly carelessly trotted out: Ukraine was the real aggressor; Ukraine's anti-Russian genocide demanded Putin's noble invasion; accusations of Russian war crimes are actually cover for Ukrainian atrocities against their own population; etc. etc.

This isn't rhetoric to persuade fence sitters, so much as reinforce the in-group. I guess they're feeling as isolated as Putin must be and are lashing out?

Karate Bastard
Jul 31, 2007

Soiled Meat

Pekka Hakala posted:

"Northern Europe's defence will be organized in a whole new way after Finland's Nato membership. What that way is, is probably still finding its final form, but it will certainly include aspects that weren't possible prior to this."

Antti Kaikkonen smirks to the fourth wall and starts powering up

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy
Speaking of Finland, apparently that's the flag and logo of the Air Force lol. Seems like it pre-dates the nazis but it's not great optics and I'm sure the usual suspects will suddenly find it very alarming

zone
Dec 6, 2016

https://twitter.com/Flash_news_ua/status/1642103356851122176
Ukraine purchased 100 APCs from Poland.

https://twitter.com/Flash_news_ua/status/1641907980261007361
Commander Tarnavskyi, the commanding officer for the Avdiivka defense, reports that Russian efforts to surround the town continue to fail.

Carth Dookie
Jan 28, 2013

mobby_6kl posted:

Speaking of Finland, apparently that's the flag and logo of the Air Force lol. Seems like it pre-dates the nazis but it's not great optics and I'm sure the usual suspects will suddenly find it very alarming




IMO this is the kind of thing you just change to something more modern so you don't have to keep explaining 'w-helll arktuallllyyyyy...' every time someone asks about it.




you can't fool me, that's the APC straight out of the Aliens movie.


For real though that thing has the very nice 30mm busmaster gun on it (possibly/probably with thermal sights) and its service record on the wiki at least says that it has survived RPG shots so that looks like a decent bit of it.

Carth Dookie fucked around with this message at 11:07 on Apr 1, 2023

Dwesa
Jul 19, 2016

Maybe I'll go where I can see stars

mobby_6kl posted:

Speaking of Finland, apparently that's the flag and logo of the Air Force lol. Seems like it pre-dates the nazis but it's not great optics and I'm sure the usual suspects will suddenly find it very alarming



That's logo of Air Force Academy, Air Force as a whole already dropped swastika from its logo.

Shaman Tank Spec
Dec 26, 2003

*blep*



mobby_6kl posted:

Speaking of Finland, apparently that's the flag and logo of the Air Force lol. Seems like it pre-dates the nazis but it's not great optics and I'm sure the usual suspects will suddenly find it very alarming



It isn't. It was, until 2020 when our air force "quietly dropped it". These days the Air Force's logo is this cool bird.



As for why we had a swastika in the first place? Well, when the Finnish Air Force was founded in the early 1900s, we literally had one plane. A Swedish count, Erik von Rosen, donated a second plane, and had painted his own personal good luck charm, a blue swastika, on the plane. It was then adopted as the logo of the Finnish Air Force. This was back in 1918, so well before any nazi connotations. The logo was officially scrapped in 1944 due to the Allied Control Commission banning the use of the swastika, but it still remained in use in some units and official flags until 2020.

As an unfortunate side note about Erik von Rosen, he was one of the founding members of the Swedish National Socialist Bloc, and eventually the brother-in-law of Hermann Goering, which kinda circles back to the unfortunate nazi connotations.

E: and just to clarify, I am glad we stopped using it, and wish the Air Force Academy would as well. You can go "WELL WE USED IT BEFORE HITLER AND IF YOU LOOK AT HISTORY..." all you want, but he kinda ruined the swastika for everyone, and also even though we had very real existential threat reasons to do so, we did fight on the Axis side in World War II so we absolutely double should've stopped using it decades ago.

Shaman Tank Spec fucked around with this message at 11:18 on Apr 1, 2023

Issaries
Sep 15, 2008

"At the end of the day
We are all human beings
My father once told me that
The world has no borders"

Carth Dookie posted:

IMO this is the kind of thing you just change to something more modern so you don't have to keep explaining 'w-helll arktuallllyyyyy...' every time someone asks about it.

I think we're in the NATO now, so we don't have to explain poo poo anymore. :colbert:

While the OG blue Finnish swastika was from civil war-era, that current black design is from the 50s.
So way beyond the point it became highly unpopular to use.

StoryTime
Feb 26, 2010

Now listen to me children and I'll tell you of the legend of the Ninja

mobby_6kl posted:

Speaking of Finland, apparently that's the flag and logo of the Air Force lol. Seems like it pre-dates the nazis but it's not great optics and I'm sure the usual suspects will suddenly find it very alarming



Yeah, prevalent in our military stuff.

This is the Mannerheim Cross, our highest military accolade, it's in there as well:


You get this for stuff like inflicting mobility kills on tanks by jamming the treads with logs.

While the symbol will probably be phased out eventually, there's enough weight of tradition to make a bunch of people go gently caress YOUUUUU instead of just getting rid of it.

zone
Dec 6, 2016

https://twitter.com/DefenceHQ/status/1642054869447049216
British intelligence update dropped.

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

"Hi Everybody!"

Sounds like Gerasimov should probably stay away from high windows from now on.

Shaman Tank Spec
Dec 26, 2003

*blep*



Finnish news sites are reporting that Erdogan has ratified Turkey's decision and Finland is now a member of Nato. Well, unless Posti manages to send the papers to Jyväskylä or something.

E:

Yle posted:

Turkish president Recep Tayyip Erdogan has certified the parliament's decision to ratify Finland's Nato membership. The law on ratification was published in Turkey's official national paper.


Image capture from Turkey's official national paper on 1.4.2023

The Turkish parliament decided late on Thursday to ratify Finland's Nato membership. After the president confirmed the decision, Finland's Nato approval has been finalized as far as Turkey is concerned.

President Erdogan had 15 days to certify the parliament's decision. The process proceeded quickly, because for instance in 2020 the ratification of Northern Macedonia's membership took two weeks from the parliament's decision.

Turkey still need to deliver the ratifying paperwork to Washington.

Shaman Tank Spec fucked around with this message at 11:50 on Apr 1, 2023

Issaries
Sep 15, 2008

"At the end of the day
We are all human beings
My father once told me that
The world has no borders"

It could still be an April Fools Joke.

Karate Bastard
Jul 31, 2007

Soiled Meat
Tricking Finland into hulking the gently caress out as a joke

StoryTime
Feb 26, 2010

Now listen to me children and I'll tell you of the legend of the Ninja

zone
Dec 6, 2016

https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1641818293907406849
Another case of incompetence being rewarded.

Shaman Tank Spec
Dec 26, 2003

*blep*



Karate Bastard posted:

Tricking Finland into hulking the gently caress out as a joke

So you're saying I should NOT go invade Russia at this second?

zone
Dec 6, 2016


:DDDDDDDD

Karate Bastard
Jul 31, 2007

Soiled Meat

Shaman Tank Spec posted:

So you're saying I should NOT go invade Russia at this second?

I would hold off on that, just a bit

Roblo
Dec 10, 2007

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

zone posted:

https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1641818293907406849
Another case of incompetence being rewarded.

Is that the guy that did a live video showing where a load of troops were and got them a special HIMARS visit?

zone
Dec 6, 2016

Roblo posted:

Is that the guy that did a live video showing where a load of troops were and got them a special HIMARS visit?

not troops, the Tyulpan in the second picture got blown up because of him paying a visit with the footage being subsequently geolocated.

free hubcaps
Oct 12, 2009

Shaman Tank Spec posted:

Helsingin Sanomat, Finland's biggest newspaper, interviewed a researcher at our Institute of Foreign Policy about what Finland joining Nato means for Finland, and for Nato.

Author: Pekka Hakala
Link: HS.fi



Thanks for sharing this! Probably unsurprisingly this is the general opinion that most non-finns have of finland, a small but hardcore nation.

I'm curious if the addition of Finland to the alliance will actually somewhat undermine the geostrategic importance of Turkey to NATO, which could only be a good thing given erdogan's shitbaggery.

free hubcaps
Oct 12, 2009

Carth Dookie posted:

IMO this is the kind of thing you just change to something more modern so you don't have to keep explaining 'w-helll arktuallllyyyyy...' every time someone asks about it.

you can't fool me, that's the APC straight out of the Aliens movie.


For real though that thing has the very nice 30mm busmaster gun on it (possibly/probably with thermal sights) and its service record on the wiki at least says that it has survived RPG shots so that looks like a decent bit of it.

It's a pretty recent design based on the patria and polish troops got a lot of experience in Iraq and Afghanistan so ive got to imagine it has solid rpg/ied protection

Karate Bastard
Jul 31, 2007

Soiled Meat
It's probably time for Finland to reveal the results of its hidden nuke program.


e: maybe on Tuesday

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy

Karate Bastard posted:

It's probably time for Finland to reveal the results of its hidden nuke program.


e: maybe on Tuesday
Hope they wait for Pootin's birthday

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat

free hubcaps posted:

I'm curious if the addition of Finland to the alliance will actually somewhat undermine the geostrategic importance of Turkey to NATO

Why would it?

free hubcaps
Oct 12, 2009

steinrokkan posted:

Why would it?

I mean, it won't because of the bosphorus, but having a fairly large landmass with a long direct border with Russia now an official part of nato (with all that entails) will definitely make Russia have to readjust its own strategic position on the north.

Roblo
Dec 10, 2007

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!
Majority of turkeys importance is just it's location, as far as I can tell

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy
Not just location w/r/t Russia but also the Middle East. And also a pretty huge military. Good to have on your side overall.

Tigey
Apr 6, 2015

Its location is indeed critical, with control over the Bosphorus Straits, long Black Sea Coastline and Caucausus border being central factors to its importance. But it also shouldn't be forgotten it has a very large military by European standards.

free hubcaps
Oct 12, 2009

Also turkey let us put nukes in their country when they initially joined the alliance which directly led to the Soviets trying to deploy them to cuba back when ICBM range was much less

Tai
Mar 8, 2006
Putin: We need a buffer zone to NATO so Donbas is ours

Finland joins NATO

Putin: That border with NATO is fine

Dwesa
Jul 19, 2016

Maybe I'll go where I can see stars
Gerasimov's winter offensive is going well

https://twitter.com/War_Mapper/status/1641961312308674560

https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1641972647029358592

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

zone
Dec 6, 2016

https://twitter.com/Flash_news_ua/status/1642125735165935617
Just throw this FSB agent into a prison, lmao

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply